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Dominion of Winds before Cantha

The Dominion of Winds has a very close relationship with Cantha, after all, a lot of those Tengu fled from the Empire. Wouldn't it be interesting if we visited the Dominion of Winds BEFORE we went to Cantha? I personally think with all the world ending threats around, those Tengu should finally open up and join the international community. Or at the very least open up when there is some form of connection with Cantha. I can imagine taking a Tengu delegation with us, when we go to Cantha, it could open up some very interesting interactions, like the Tengu wanting to return home, the Empire wanting to eradicate the remaining Tengu, and anything in-between those two extremes. Thoughts?

Comments

  • Sarie.1630Sarie.1630 Member ✭✭

    The Dominion of Winds could open up as part of the Living World prior to us heading to Cantha. I could see this happening as an "Epilogue" episode to close down the Saga story arc and set up hints at the new Campaign. I could also completely see a Tengu, at some point, joining Dragon's Watch; this could help ease the guild into forming alliances within Cantha, provided there are any Tengu remaining there... of course the story could just have us ally with Canthan humans because Kasmeer is there to assist in Diplomacy for the Queen. Don't forget that the Dominion of Winds has been historically harassed to an unknown degree by Destroyers (see: Kessex Hills), and Primordus is still on the table, so this could give an additional story-based reason to visit the area; perhaps Destroyers have been becoming more pervasive...

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    1. Majory is canthan, likely descended from royalty which will be a plot point
    2. I Doubt tengu will be brought in at all. Given how when they show up the "make them playable" comes and we all know A-net wont ever do anything that is that labor intensive despite how many of us want it.
    3. More likely if we go there, it will have been destroyed to make sure that we dont get any "Me wants" in our heads.
    4. Pretty sure they are setting us up so we loose all of our guild mates. Rytlock will likely become Khan-ur, Braham will sacrifice himself against jormag, Majory will become empress in cantha and so on. This then opens them up to rid tyria of the commander, likely making the last expansion were we have to go into the mists to deal with a threat and find that the door behind us is gone. So we may never return (Seeing as The Utopia expansion is cannon now) which means likely... thats where it will end.

    Expect nothing, outside of it being playable. You will save a lot of time and frustration keeping your expectations low because people will always dissapoint you if you dont my friend.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can totally see the Dominion of Winds opening up in Season 6, after we destroyed the xenophobic political system in Cantha.

  • Kossage.9072Kossage.9072 Member ✭✭✭

    What is interesting about tengu lore in GW2 is that we seem to have contradictory accounts from the various tengu. On the one hand some tengu seem to heavily imply that all the tengu currently living in the Dominion originated from Cantha whereas other tengu say that the tengu clans from all over Central Tyria and Elona also joined some of the Canthan tengu immigrants to found the Dominion. We even have evidence of the Caromi tribe (historically from Kryta) living in the Dominion and using Canthan-esque names while trading with the outside world via their outposts, so the Caromi definitely do not come from Cantha despite what some tengu guards might say.

    I subscribe to the latter lore, in which case only 2 tribes (the friendly Angchu and the xenophobic Sensali, assuming that both of them migrated to the Dominion) out of all the tengu living in the Dominion would potentially call Cantha their country of origin. The various international tengu tribes and clans set their differences aside and founded the Four Houses (named after the four winds, e.g. North, South) once they settled into the Dominion in the aftermath of the Rising of Orr (known as the Great Tsunami). Each house not only upholds tengu ideals of honor, family, and history, but also keeps their respective cultures different from the other houses...at least to an extent, since apparently all tengu in the Dominion are required to speak some archaic language which some interpret as Canthan regardless of if your tengu tribe originates from Cantha or not.

    Sangdo Swiftwing: The wall was erected after the Great Tsunami, when the tengu clans unified and became the four houses. We do not allow anyone but tengu inside, and few of us ever leave it.
    Player: Four houses?
    Sangdo Swiftwing: Fighting the Orr armies necessitated our cooperation with one another. The houses—North, South, East, and West, like the winds—allow us to preserve our unique cultures while unifying as a whole. [...]
    Sangdo Swiftwing: We used to be many clans, but when we united against the Orrians, we put our differences aside and became four houses. Each house has a different culture, but all uphold the tengu ideals.
    Player: What are the tengu ideals?
    Sangdo Swiftwing: Honor, family, and history. It is a great shame to bring dishonor upon one's family and ancestors.(Source)

    Kae Mayumi: Hello. Feel free to buy from any of the merchants in our caravan. We have weapons, crafting recipes, food clothing, boons, and more. Take your time; looks like we're not going anywhere for a while.
    Player: What's stopping you?
    Kae Mayumi: The tengu. We'd hoped they'd let us pass, but whenever we approach their gate, they raise their bows. Unfortunately, none of us speak Canthan... or whatever it is they're speaking, so we're at a stand-off.
    Player: But aren't you tengu?
    Kae Mayumi: You might say I'm a lapsed tengu. My family emigrated to Kryta from Cantha when Emperor Usoku began his crusade against non-humans. And there aren't a lot of other tengu in Lion's Arch's melting pot.
    Player: I hope you find an answer to your impasse. (Source)

    Other potential tribes besides the aforementioned two, and the Caromi, would likely be the Avicara of the Shiverpeaks, and unknown tengu tribe(s) from Elona based on Hayato's explanation. I've often wondered if during game development the Dominion was originally omeant to contain just Canthan tengu, but this was later adapted to include most of the known (and even unknown) tengu tribes from around the world. We at least know that their main city seems to be called the aerie after the name given to the tengu village in GW1.

    Interestingly the tengu also appear to have an emperor (no word on whether the emperor has concubines or an empress, or if he's single, though), so that's yet another tie to a Canthan type of hierarchy that the Dominion seems to have adopted for some reason. I can't help but wonder which tengu line dominates the others; could it be that the emperor is directly descended from Talon Silverwing (and thus from the Angchu) given how it was Silverwing's descendant who led the charge through Zhaitan's Risen horde back in the day?

    Hayato: You will advance no further. The aerie is off-limits. [...]
    Hayato: This is the Dominion of Winds, our home, and it has been for a hundred years. We do not welcome intrusions into our serenity.
    Player: A hundred years?
    Hayato: A descendent of the venerable Silverwing led our people here through waves of Orrian corruption. We honor our ancestors by staying true to their vision. [...]
    Player: Your preferred weapon is a bow?
    Hayato: Mine, yes, but we are a diverse race. The inhabitants here came from all over the world, and our clans each have their own preferences. Our weaponsmiths are quite skilled in all arms.
    Player: All over the world? Aren't you from Cantha?
    Hayato: Some of our ancestors came from Cantha. Many others came from Elona and other parts of Tyria. They migrated here from all over, seeking safe haven from the Great Tsunami. (Source)

    Player: Are more of you coming out of your fortress?
    Shou: We have come to understand the importance of trade, if that's what you mean. The emperor wishes for us to expand our influence in the world's markets.
    Player: You have an emperor?
    Shou: No. Our venerable emperor has us. It is our honor to serve. (Source)

    It's unknown if any of the Quetzal tengu live in the Dominion; so far we've only met the merchant Goro Cleverclaws whose friendly clan lived in Drizzlewood Coast before the charr war reached the shores there, and the more hostile and territorial Quetzal in Auric Basin with only the written clue from the Quetzal Crest giving potential hints about the Quetzal's reasons for not joining their brethren within the walls: "We are not so easily fooled."

    The tengu are suffering from their own dragon problem as Primordus's Destroyers have been appearing in the Dominion since at least personal story times of 1325 AE. Apparently the tengu even hold knowledge about the previous dragonrise, knowledge that most races have forgotten. Perhaps they hold some valuable information that we require in the future if the Scroll of the Five True Gods doesn't give good enough answers?

    Some individual tengu wander the world as kind of ronin to help other races and reach out to form alliances, and we saw some individual tengu joining the Vigil and Pact Izu Steelshrike and Fuji Shadowbane, respectively) for various reasons.

    Genzhou Talonrend: Even the strong will perish when the dragons make their move. Destroyers have begun appearing on both sides of the wall, and they only signal the beginning. [...]
    Player: Why leave your clan?
    Genzhou Talonrend: I sacrifice my own happiness to save the world. My people remember things that too many others have forgotten. If they are not reminded, the worst will certainly come.
    Player: So, remind me of something I've forgotten.
    Genzhou Talonrend: All right. This is not the first time the dragons have risen, though it may-or may not-be the last. That remains to be seen. (Source)

    As the tengu experience budding friendships with other races (like Izu Steelshrike did with younger Trahearne in a story yet to be told beyond hints), more and more of them are reaching out to their high masters to argue the case of opening their borders. Based on Ree Soesbee's lore interview from a few years ago, this was a hotly debated political topic in the Dominion in the aftermath of HoT events.

    Q: After all the achievements we made during these three years, why are the tengu still so hostile? After all, we killed Zhaitan, defeated Scarlet (who was close to them), and destroyed the Shadow of the Dragon.
    Ree Soesbee: The tengu are a very complicated race, filled with bureaucracy and warrior trials. It takes them a long time to trust other races—they were hunted in Cantha—and it would require a lot of discussion among their high masters before they could commit to any kind of treaty with the other races. Many individual tengu do believe in building a peace with the other races, but at this time they are still arguing their case before the leaders of the Dominion. (Source)

    If the borders are to ever open up, I could see a few reasons for it:

    1) The tengu face such inner turmoil within (whether from Destroyers or ambitions of one of the houses) that they have no choice but to call for outside help. This may or may not involve Destroyers simply blowing a hole into the Tengu Wall and thus exposing the Dominion of Winds to any foolhardy adventurer trying to sneak inside despite the great risks involved. Unless the deep sea dragon's minions get to it first and try to flood the tengu lands, or if Jormag has plans for the tengu and sends the icebrood to infiltrate the region to gain whatever powerful artifacts may lie there.

    2) Regardless of what the state of the Dominion of Winds is at the time, the tengu emperor may be cunning enough to realize the benefits of working together with other races despite some houses opposing such a thought. As long as the emperor is convinced, he can likely overrule objections from the high masters and dictate opening the borders. Given how cleverly the emperor has sent the Caromi to trade weapons with Vigil and various Tyrian races, I imagine the funds from such trade are being poured to some unknown project and making the lives of the emperor's subjects better.

    Either way, assuming that the lore of the Dominion consisting of international tengu clans is still valid, I doubt many tengu (who have never even been a member of either of the Canthan clans) would want anything to do with Cantha unless the emperor personally forced all houses to consider the Canthan matter. I'd expect tengu politics to rival even the asuran debates, but whether any of the four houses represents a villainous tengu faction or if the only tengu villain faction we find are somethin akin to bandits or renegades, I look forward to learning more about the tengu society as a whole.

    There is even a prophecy about a star revealing the destined tengu lands and how peace with other races will only come after that. While most scholars and tengu believe that this prophecy referred to Zhaitan's awakening and the Rising of Orr, perhaps the writers could introduce a twist where Aurene's final star moment in S4Ep6 would actually be the true sign of the prophecy about to be fulfilled and that the real tengu sanctuary lies elsewhere than the Dominion of Winds. :)

    Talon Silverwing: My people tell tales of the day when we will be free, when our lands will be revealed by a heavenly star and rise. When that day comes, human, only then will our races live in peace. (Source)

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I can totally see the Dominion of Winds opening up in Season 6, after we destroyed the xenophobic political system in Cantha.

    I believe Season 6 will be released after Season 5, before the Cantha expansion.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The Dominion of Winds has a very close relationship with Cantha, after all, a lot of those Tengu fled from the Empire. Wouldn't it be interesting if we visited the Dominion of Winds BEFORE we went to Cantha?

    I love the idea! :)

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I can totally see the Dominion of Winds opening up in Season 6, after we destroyed the xenophobic political system in Cantha.

    I believe Season 6 will be released after Season 5, before the Cantha expansion.

    Ugh don't even mention it, Anet might read it.
    Cantha right after S5 please, like S3->PoF!

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I can totally see the Dominion of Winds opening up in Season 6, after we destroyed the xenophobic political system in Cantha.

    I believe Season 6 will be released after Season 5, before the Cantha expansion.

    Ugh don't even mention it, Anet might read it.
    Cantha right after S5 please, like S3->PoF!

    It will depend on how long S5 lasts, because the expansion is a very very long time away.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It will depend on how long S5 lasts, because the expansion is a very very long time away.

    With the way its going Icebrood Saga still has about a year to go before its over. then another 2 month wait until the xpack.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've long wanted to visit the Dominion of Winds as well, seems like such a cool location.

    The Dominion isn't just Canthan origin Tengu though, there are many clans living in there among the four houses, it's actually quite a multi-cultural area with each of the clans original cultures being preserved over time.
    The Quetzal Tengu in the Magumma Jungle that we can fight in HoT are the only known clan who did not join the others in the Dominion.. but we don't know why.
    (I also hear that Quetzal Tengu have shown up in Drizzlewood Coast as well in recent content but I have not played this personally so I have no knowledge about this particular group of Tengu)

    To my knowledge the known clans living in the Dominion are the Sensali and Angchu clans which are both of Canthan origin, then theres the Avicara clan which originate from the Shiverpeaks and the Caromi clan which are Krytan.. there are others from Elona and maybe even other parts of the world but they have never been seen in either Gw1 or Gw2.
    We also know that inside the Dominion they still speak old Canthan which would be a pretty interesting thing to see in the game and the the Tengu have their own Emperor.

    It's quite disappointing that Anet has only dropped a few Tengu into the story over time and hinted at a narrative where many Tengu were trying to push to get involved with this whole Dragon problem but it's been so long since anything developed on that.

    I don't know if there is any current thing going on between the Tengu and Cantha but since Cantha has been cut off for a good while and the Canthan Tengu only make up a portion of the Tengu Population I find it unlikey they have any relationship with Cantha in the modern day.. hostile or otherwise.
    They did see the return of the Elder Dragons as a sign it was time to return to Tyria and apparently they have some kind of unknown knowledge about them that was never shared outside of their own race so I dunno, they may not even care about Cantha anymore nor want anything to do with it but I would still love to visit the Dominion regardless ^^

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I believe Season 6 will be released after Season 5, before the Cantha expansion.

    I'd rather have a content drought than a third season in a row.
    Two seasons in a row already were detrimental, I don't want to see what another season would bring.
    And Arenanet needs those developers on the expansion.

  • I think the purpose of withholding the Tengu from us is twofold: (1) it's a lot of work to do them justice on a scale that respects even what @Kossage.9072 put in that most excellent post in this thread, and (2) I think our thirst for Tengu content is a millionfold higher given how long the Dominion has been visible (yet inaccessible) to us.

    I'm with @maddoctor.2738 on this one - yes, I think it would be SUPER interesting to get to see the Dominion before we head into Cantha! It would be a nice way to get (outdated) information on Cantha introduced into the game, and it would be less jarring than PoF. As I remembered it, the beginning of PoF was "hey we haven't been to Elona for forever, but... we've also had these airships for a long time, so.... I guess we'll just hop over there now." I thought the narrative deserved a better bridge between what we were doing before, and our eventual entry to Elona. As it stands, we just chased Balth there, with no real discussion of why such an expedition wasn't mounted on some smaller scale prior to the Forged being a thing.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2020

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    with no real discussion of why such an expedition wasn't mounted on some smaller scale prior to the Forged being a thing.

    Airships didn't become widespread until the Pact, and the Pact was using them to try to stop the world ending dragons from, you know, ending the world. Even after Zhaitan's defeat they were most likely being used to clear up the undead navy, which had been blocking anyone from leaving Tyria since Zhaitan rose Orr, as well as proving aerial support on other dragon fronts. Then Mordremoth came up and wiped out most of the Pact's fleet, leaving only a handful of privately owned airships left, and most of them weren't going to risk a trip to Elona.

    Not to mention, Elona proper was closed off because of Joko taking over, and being something of a tyrannical kitten. We do know there was some sort of trade route between Amnoon and Ebonhawke until Kralkatorik rose and moved into the Desert, blocking it off with his branded army.

  • @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    with no real discussion of why such an expedition wasn't mounted on some smaller scale prior to the Forged being a thing.

    Airships didn't become widespread until the Pact, and the Pact was using them to try to stop the world ending dragons from, you know, ending the world. Even after Zhaitan's defeat they were most likely being used to clear up the undead navy, which had been blocking anyone from leaving Tyria since Zhaitan rose Orr, as well as proving aerial support on other dragon fronts. Then Mordremoth came up and wiped out most of the Pact's fleet, leaving only a handful of privately owned airships left, and most of them weren't going to risk a trip to Elona.

    Not to mention, Elona proper was closed off because of Joko taking over, and being something of a tyrannical kitten. We do know there was some sort of trade route between Amnoon and Ebonhawke until Kralkatorik rose and moved into the Desert, blocking it off with his branded army.

    I should have been clearer. Yes, there are many obvious factors (other priorities, Joko basically running Elona as a vast Tyrian North Korea, the novelty of airships, and their subsequent decimation by Mordremoth) that might be sufficient to explain why an expedition never happened earlier.

    All of this would be fine as is, except for one thing: Amnoon has long been a free city, and at least Ellen Kiel (and most likely any peer captain in Lion's Arch, anyone in the Orders with any interest in global history/politics, and just... a lot of people, probably) knows it.

    Kiel, like any good businessperson, mentions insurance (so we know that concept and industry operates on a practical level in Tyria). However, the insurance quip is really more a joke about the Commander being kind of rough with a lot of stuff, and not really about the hazard of the trip itself. Given that there is a sensible way to mitigate risk, I feel like at minimum the Priory should have been able to raise the funds to finance airship passage to Amnoon at some point to establish a presence there. While it might not have made that much business or military sense to make the trip, the Priory nerds like Ogden Stonehealer have their academic interests in the region. The Whispers of course probably knew and had inroads as well (I'm not 100% sure, but I think they were mentioned when it came to making use of that desert passage that Kralk ended up shutting down).

    And it's not like when we arrive in Amnoon, we see the Bay of Elon peppered with the wreckage of Risen fleets or the remnants of an Awakened or Forged blockade of some kind. It's just open water. Prior to the arrival of the Forged, it should have been even quieter. There's no "oh so this is why it wouldn't have made sense to come here before the Balth chase forced us to, under even less optimal conditions."

    All I'm saying is, Amnoon seemed like it was always available to get to with moderately low risk, and that people knew it. For me, it would have been nice to have that situation acknowledged. As it stands, we just have to assume that the other factors mentioned were enough to outweigh both the incentive and the ability to make the trip.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It will depend on how long S5 lasts, because the expansion is a very very long time away.

    I'd be surprised if they changed the length of this season - but then again, who knows? Perhaps there will be an unusually long Icebrood Saga and thus no need of a Season 6.

    Either way, the expansion is - as you stated correctly - a very long time away since they only started working on it this year.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It will depend on how long S5 lasts, because the expansion is a very very long time away.

    I'd be surprised if they changed the length of this season - but then again, who knows? Perhaps there will be an unusually long Icebrood Saga and thus no need of a Season 6.

    Either way, the expansion is - as you stated correctly - a very long time away since they only started working on it this year.

    Do we have confirmation that they just started the next xpac this year?

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2020

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Do we have confirmation that they just started the next xpac this year?

    Well, between them saying last fall that "an expansion is not off the table" (MikeZ), which means there wasn't one in the making at the time, and their announcement in March (link) that "development is underway on a third Guild Wars 2 expansion", it is save to assume that the decision was made between those two points - most likely after MikeZ left, so the guess would be around early this year, no?

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    1. Majory is canthan, likely descended from royalty which will be a plot point

    In all honesty she'll probably be a descendant of Mhenlo. Boy was pretty active before Cynn.

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I can totally see the Dominion of Winds opening up in Season 6, after we destroyed the xenophobic political system in Cantha.

    I believe Season 6 will be released after Season 5, before the Cantha expansion.

    Ugh don't even mention it, Anet might read it.
    Cantha right after S5 please, like S3->PoF!

    It will depend on how long S5 lasts, because the expansion is a very very long time away.

    1 year away I'd say (I bet on Sept-Dec 2021).
    But it's just my guess ofc.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Do we have confirmation that they just started the next xpac this year?

    Well, between them saying last fall that "an expansion is not off the table" (MikeZ), which means there wasn't one in the making at the time, and their announcement in March (link) that "development is underway on a third Guild Wars 2 expansion", it is save to assume that the decision was made between those two points - most likely after MikeZ left, so the guess would be around early this year, no?

    Possibly Id like to think they'd take the time to make it good... and not like the past two expansions which only got good in their living worlds. I kind of want a quality product thats not just a bunch of pretty maps (Hot maps are better, because they have purpose and stuff to do. PoF was horrible.) Im hoping its not... well what we've received in the past and we get a BUNCH of new stuff and some surprises rather than more of the status quo.