Would you like to see more Updrafts, Mushrooms, Beetle-walls, Vents, Leylines in new zones?

I am happy to see that Anet has used several of these old "move around" Masteries, in the newer zones like Bjora Marshes. I still use them quite often, for instance a mushroom has the huge advantage that you can use them while aggroed, while mounting up is not possible. Ley lines can bring you a huge distance without losing height, updrafts actually give you height that you can then use mounting up in mid-air, Vents can also be used while aggroed and are more of a lazy public transportation device for long distances. I personally would like to see more, while being careful not to lock (too much) content behind them.

updraft: always good to havemushroom, vent, ley-line: if they make sense on that spot without the transportation in mind, ley-lines only if there actually is a ley-line there and not just because you need a transport, mushrooms only in biomes that have mushrooms and not just because you need to get somewhere, vents accordingly.beetle-walls: nope. beetle has enough utility. small chests behind a wall ok, more than that nope.

locking stuff behind those masteries: yes. adds more freedom to the map creation, gives masteries a purpose. however it all needs to be justified. if cantha doesn't include HoT for example, then cantha must not have anything locked behind a mushroom or updraft.

Updrafts are fine, the rest are too gimicky for me.

It would be nice if old mechanics would be used more instead of always introducing new ones that are obsolete on the next throwaway-map anyway.But atm I see little hope for this x.x.Even though it would be less work than constantly coming up with new throwaway mechanics?

@Fuchslein.8639 said:It would be nice if old mechanics would be used more instead of always introducing new ones that are obsolete on the next throwaway-map anyway.But atm I see little hope for this x.x.Even though it would be less work than constantly coming up with new throwaway mechanics?

the reason for those mechanics is the same as map currrencies: it puts new players and old players at the same level. if you could buy all the LS4 stuff with karma, then old players would never have to go on any of these maps. on masteries it forces old players to do the same work as new players.ANet likes to add those artificial synchronization points.

@WorldofBay.8160 said:

@Fuchslein.8639 said:It would be nice if old mechanics would be used more instead of always introducing new ones that are obsolete on the next throwaway-map anyway.But atm I see little hope for this x.x.Even though it would be less work than constantly coming up with new throwaway mechanics?

That makes sense. At least for the Masterys.Even though I don't understand why newbies should play the maps in disorder

Still, I think it's terrible that old things are forgotten and you don't feel that you are doing it because it's useful. You do it because you have to, otherwise you can't get at many things. And that for every map new.And if this is called content, I understand why people rush through the updates faster and faster. Like it was denounced in another thread (against the players who do that).

while it's true that mounts made many of those obsolete, I would like to see past masteries being used in the future as a general concept.

Was just thinking how gliding and other Hot gimmicks can be fun but are rarely used on new maps. I've been gliding through Thunderhead canyons and was really missing updrafts and also ley lines.I think it would be great if maps were designed to offer gliding and other Hot, LS3 features as an alternative travelling route. I would even add a new feature which is a gliding boost. Strategically placed items in the air which you can touch to get a speed boost. Or even Artifacts of Dwayna from Siren's Landing with a short duration. And please give us the ability to use Bloodstone Fen gliding skills on other maps. If you think they are too strong and could lead to cheesing some content, nerf them on maps outside of Bloodstone Fen.

But no Oakheart's Reach. That's in DF and I often don't realise I have run over one of those until I wonder why I don't seem to be attacking.

The assumption here is that they will not bundle the new expansion with the old. May be true, may not be. If the answer is they are, locking content behind existing modes of travel is ok and binds differing parts of the game of game together. If anything would like to see more where a mode of travel is used outside of that map. Combining the vine buff with gliding in Draconis Mons made for a lot of fun map traveling and opened up the map in new ways. Would like to see more of that. Updraft exploration was a big deal in HoT and should have been carried over in PoF, IMO.

Cluttering up zones with all of these mobility gimmicks is not a good design idea. Some things like the odd updraft or mushroom can be nice because it allows for more 3 dimensional map design, but adding in too many takes away more important elements of gameplay.

@Hesione.9412 said:But no Oakheart's Reach. That's in DF and I often don't realise I have run over one of those until I wonder why I don't seem to be attacking.

Personally that was one of my favorites, grappling like that and getting pulled up at great speed was fun. You needed some skill too to use all three (or 5?)charges in a row. I think that this method is only really useful to scale huge cliffs that have no protrusions where your skyscale or Springer could regenerate Endurance. There are definitely a few places like that in Dragon's Stand, to name one zone and probably quit a few more places. I have often stood at the base of a cliff, seeing there is some Event going on far above me, but Skyscale and SPringer are just too cumbersome to use to get there fast. DS does sometimes have Jackal portals though, which is good.

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:Cluttering up zones with all of these mobility gimmicks is not a good design idea. Some things like the odd updraft or mushroom can be nice because it allows for more 3 dimensional map design, but adding in too many takes away more important elements of gameplay.

I agree, zones should not be littered with them. Actually I think that they are doing a pretty good job in the latest zones(Icebrood). I just feel that they sort of forgot about them during PoF and LW4.

I detest all of those mechanics and hope to never see them again.

Yes. I think the mastery system should be worth more than just the utility in the respective expansion or living world content. The mounts did a good job with this, and I actually feel some value in unlocking these masteries. I want them for the QoL, and so make sure I grind out enough experience points and grab enough mastery points to get what I want to use in the open world.

I've played through Personal Story until LWS4 within the past 6 months. I haven't even unlocked half of the HoT masteries because well, I wasn't in HoT long enough to "grind out" mastery experience since I wanted to continue on with the story. Everything except for maybe gliding masteries is pretty worthless outside of the jungle.

@"aspirine.6852" said:Updrafts are fine, the rest are too gimicky for me.

I agree. But I think the reason they are gimicky is because they serve no real purpose for long-term play. Of course they shouldn't lock actual progression in later expansions, etc., based on previous masteries, but making it possible to access a nice treasure chest or two in new maps. Or taking a shortcut through a map by catching some updrafts or a leyline; walking through some poison clouds instead of walking around them, etc.

But I also agree with other posters here, that they shouldn't be forced. I don't want mushrooms littering Lake Doric for example being in an unnatural ecosystem and serving little or no purpose. But we have so many different masteries now, that it would be kind of nice to have a little "bonus" for those that completed them.

I am also pretty tired of so many throw-away novelty masteries.

Maybe not mushrooms specifically, but perhaps region/zone specific assets that function as mushrooms (like the plate in Salma district for example). Help keep theme and immersion while allowing the map to be more organically explored (even if mounts will, by and large, be the go to). I think you have the chance to REALLY integrate the last two expansions and make them a cohesive whole with the third one, while adding flavor to specific regions.

Regarding locking content behind these, there is a VEEEEERY fine line that has to be toed. I think optional content is fine - jumping puzzles, exploration easter eggs, maybe even some achievements, etc. But main story missions or required new-expansion content would be a hard no. Integrate, but not alienate.

Please, ANET, I'm willing to wait a little longer for an expansion, so long as it's one that serves as a culmination of everything we've gained so far. This can be great, and we all want it to be!

@"firedragon.8953" said:I agree. But I think the reason they are gimicky is because they serve no real purpose for long-term play. Of course they shouldn't lock actual progression in later expansions, etc., based on previous masteries, but making it possible to access a nice treasure chest or two in new maps. Or taking a shortcut through a map by catching some updrafts or a leyline; walking through some poison clouds instead of walking around them, etc.They've already blocked gliding and mounts from jumping puzzles which are almost entirely optional content because of players whining about mounts being "unfair" for some reason. While I like the idea of using these masteries, I would question whether or not Anet would make them available as shortcuts to content based on what happened with mounts/gliders and JPs. /shrug

Personally, I think that only HOT or POF Masterys should be continued as counterparts.All Masterys from the new maps that are not in the expansion require the purchase of one of the LS-stories that new players don't necessarily have. And yes I guess it will be like HOT and with the new expansion HOT and POF will be free. But that's just a guess, I can't see into the futureAnd even if this would of course encourage the purchase (or uninstallation) of the ls-seasons, it has always been important for new content to be non-intrusive for players who don't have certain parts like the griffin or the skyscale, even if these are now seen by many players as a requirement for train's, they are not a requirement for playing the game.

Personally I would even go so far as to ask that only essential masteries are not forgotten. And I think gliding and the first 4 core mounts are exactly those.Updrafts and portals of the Jackal.

I'd like for all masteries to become more widely usable, instead of being limited only to a small part of the game. I'd also like to see things of more importance to not be locked beyond a specific mastery. There should be some alternatives.

Yes, and I'd like to see more of them in old zones too, especially PoF and LS4 maps.

On the Siverwastes map, there is a rock door that opens in the story instance to the Sealed Cavern. That could easily be converted to a beetle-wall on the PvE non-story instance map so that players can open it up to access the cavern. They could drop a world boss event in there. Maybe a giant ley-line infused sand wurm attacking from the sand filled doorway. Put in jumping platforms (mushrooms would be out of place) so players can get airborne. Add ley-lines and allow players to charge up Bloodstone Fen gliding attack skills to attack the wurm if they have them unlocked. Drop a WP in the cavern for access by players without mounts.

I think the Bloodstone Fen gliding attack skills is one of the most underused skills in the game. I think that they didn't make use of the ley-lines enough on existing maps. In LWS3, ley-lines should have been heavy across core maps to that players could use ley-line gliding skills and to charge up the gliding attack skills balanced for use outside of Bloodstone Fen. On maps that are next to each other without a portal connecting them Ley-lines could be used to deliver gliding players to a new airborne portal in the sky. Example: Cross from Hoelbrak to Snowden Drifts and Lornar's Pass.

@Astralporing.1957 said:I'd like for all masteries to become more widely usable, instead of being limited only to a small part of the game. I'd also like to see things of more importance to not be locked beyond a specific mastery. There should be some alternatives.

Well, all but Icebrood Saga essence manipulation. I really do not want to see this essence kitten anywhere.

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:I think the Bloodstone Fen gliding attack skills is one of the most underused skills in the game.

I was going to mention this in my post as well, actually I did, then edited it out since I saw the OP seemed to be specifically talking about movement and the Mastery system.

But yeah, I only purchased one skill when i realized the skills just disappeared out of Bloodstone Fen. Not worth the unbound magic tbh. Even if they made the skills weaker outside the Bloodstone area, it would be better than nothing.

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:use ley-line gliding skills and to charge up the gliding attack skills balanced for use outside of Bloodstone Fen.

I really like this idea as it would create deliberate design, with ley-lines, gliding routs, and enemy clusters, putting to rest fears of constantly spammable glider attacks and their overpowered affects in certain areas of the game. Of course it would make the devs job harder, but I’d argue it’d make the mastery system much richer and worth the effort for creating it in the first place.

Having played through personal story to LWS4 in 6 months, there was never a point where I was like, “Man, I really want that Nuhoch Stealth Detection, so better go play some repeatable metas or grind up some Chak.”? No. Never. Not that I wanted this skill to be required, but that I would have liked to believe there would have been some nice QoL improvements from getting it. It seemed near useless in the jungle, and has no application outside of it. Obviously I don’t expect EVERY mastery to have universal applications in the world, but a few low level ones as well as high level ones, beyond just movement, would make the system feel more “worth it”. Including new temporary powers to just help complete a single map just seems lazy, and well...pretty boring. Why were they even needed? May as well have designed the map without the mastery in my opinion. It would be cool to start seeing some masteries synergism game with each other, like the idea of ley-lines charging up Bloodstone Fen glider attacks, mastering BOTh adrenal and speed boost mushroom masteries giving a permanent 5-10% gathering speed boost when harvesting, etc. etc.

@firedragon.8953 said:

I really like this idea as it would create deliberate design, with ley-lines, gliding routs, and enemy clusters, putting to rest fears of constantly spammable glider attacks and their overpowered affects in certain areas of the game. Of course it would make the devs job harder, but I’d argue it’d make the mastery system much richer and worth the effort for creating it in the first place.

Having played through personal story to LWS4 in 6 months, there was never a point where I was like, “Man, I really want that Nuhoch Stealth Detection, so better go play some repeatable metas or grind up some Chak.”? No. Never. Not that I wanted this skill to be required, but that I would have liked to believe there would have been some nice QoL improvements from getting it. It seemed near useless in the jungle, and has no application outside of it. Obviously I don’t expect EVERY mastery to have universal applications in the world, but a few low level ones as well as high level ones, beyond just movement, would make the system feel more “worth it”. Including new temporary powers to just help complete a single map just seems lazy, and well...pretty boring. Why were they even needed? May as well have designed the map without the mastery in my opinion.

The mastery system is a major need of an overhaul. The haphazard way things were put in makes it clunky. The gliding attack skills should have been in the mastery system and as I said balanced for use outside of B.Fen. Some things on the mastery system should have been a local map/zone purchase since they can't be used outside of it. There is a lot of wasted potential in the mastery system and deployment of game features. Oakheart's Essence would have been great deployed across other maps before mounts came out. If balanced right; the ley-line gliding attacks would make world bosses feel fresh.

Anet, if you give us more reasons to glide around people will buy more shiny glider skins.