Ventari and the support sadness.

We all know the complaints on Revenant in general such as lack of weapon choice, bad utility, and energy upkeep.In raid it functions alright as a subpar healing, or as a alacrity bot. In Wvw outside of niche uses such as roaming either as Condi Malyx or Power Shiro/renegade; Power Herald, and the newish but terrible Alacrity Power Renegade, there isn't much of a use for them in a group setting. But I have been trying to play more of a support role in WvW lately to try and make that work, with the recent nerf to Glint it is worse. So for the purpose of that I want to talk about Centaur and lack of ability. I understand the idea of not wanting to much support, but the fact that firebrand is nothing but support, heal scrappers are still condi cleanse machines, tempests still are aura factories and spell breakers are area denial support. I believe it isn't the case anymore.

To begin, the tablet itself needs a rework. In March 5, 2019 patch Gyros, which function almost identical to how the tablet does, was reworked because "we're reworking one of the less reliable skill sets: gyros. While potent, their difficulty to use and to optimize has brought them to a spot where they're not really desirable outside of a few niche situations. As part of this rework, gyros are being reclassified as wells, and the scrapper's particular version of them is mobile and point-blank to enhance the scrapper's melee-oriented playstyle." The simple fix is make it so the tablet can be some how strapped to our backs to make it a faster more accurate way of support. Yes, standing on a wall and being able to support below or vice versa is nice, but not if friendlies die before it is even there, nevermind the delay on the heal/cleanse or the outrageous energy cost on the abilities.

"Healing orbs" are useless, 197 with a coefficient of .075 isn't going to help anything. Would rather have each instance give boons to 5 people, which would work well with Glint's 'Elevated Compassion'.

Lack of weapons. Staff, that is all we get. I understand the class was made without weapon swapping in mind but this has been proven to be bad. Lack of diversity makes it all boring. Scepter and Focus are the easy ways to go about it. They do not fit themeatically in with the mist warrior architype that anet has billed as revenant but it could work. So I purpose a different way to do it. Instead of Energy Expulsion with a big burst of healing and draining all energy to leaving us exposed because we now have to swap to another legend with 0 support. Would there be a way to make it so it functions as a -3 upkeep that changes what ever weapon we have to more support oriented abilities. That way, when we swap legend to something other than Ventari we can swap to staff and still have functionality of support. I don't know if it is feasible to do this but it would help.Mace, skill one does minor heals instead of torment/poison. Skill two does a burst of heal and applies regen to allies in the field. Skill three, does a burst heal while applying protection to allies blasted.Hammer could have the same functionality as mace with the for more range support with less healing.Swords, skill one does minor healing. Skill two strikes enemies and releases more healing the more hit, applies swiftness. Skill 3 applies a evade and blinds targets instead of dmg.Offhand weapons could retain the same ideas as above. The idea is that if it chills, it grants swiftness and so on with condi to boon swap.

Any thoughts or ideas to help with this. I hadn't played for a long time and recently came back at the start of the pandemic so I maybe out of line or someone somewhere can make it work. But for the life of me I can't make it work to be cohesive or even enjoyable.

I think they should shift Ventari from a Healer to Barrier + Heal over Time.

Healing for Ventari is extremely bad for one reason, and that's when yu swap put of Ventari for any reason, yur healing potential plummets.

Ventari also requires the player to camp the stance to fulfil their Healer role, thus directly contradicting the Revenant Legend Swap design.

Without a second Healing Legend, yu are stuck with Ventari healing, and Kalla off healing, and that means yu are basically only doing half yur role, half the time.

Changing Ventari to be a Barrier caster which applies HoT will allow Ventari to extend their healing and shielding beyond the time spent in that Legend, and letting the Barrier and HoT to work itself out fully during the 10s spent in another Legend.

Or, Anet could give us a second Healing Legend, but I don't think the Rev player base wants a Healing Espec.

One observation I'd make is that gyros and the tablet aren't quite the same problem:

Gyros were uncontrollable - they'd go off and do their own thing with no means for the player to control them. They were supposed to favour buffing/healing the scrapper that made them, but could be unpredictable in effect. This isn't a problem with the tablet. The tablet could sometimes be awkward to operate, but the player does have choice of where it goes.

It could be interesting to have an option to tether the tablet to the revenant - maybe, for instance, if you slide the tablet onto yourself, it sticks and will move with you until you direct it somewhere else. But I wouldn't kill the functionality entirely.

There is, of course, the issue that the tablet is clearly designed to allow for healing at a distance, while the only support weapon revenant has is pure melee.

@draxynnic.3719 said:It could be interesting to have an option to tether the tablet to the revenant - maybe, for instance, if you slide the tablet onto yourself, it sticks and will move with you until you direct it somewhere else. But I wouldn't kill the functionality entirely.Maybe just turn that into a upkeep elite where you carry it or you could just have it like it is, sorry but the current one is just flawed at it's core. Why reward blowing all of your energy for those benefits, even if you do it low energy it still is useless. I do like this idea. I would still like some sort of boons going out, it is very obvious they made this with always being with glint.Brings us back to the problem that is prevalent on the forums, lack of weapons.

IMO the biggest thing that hurt Ventari and the Salvation line was the focus on healing orbs. The DPS players already have to keep track of their own skill bar, enemy movements, and chat. Throwing down bunch of orbs and expecting people to walk over them is just visual clutter and inconsistent healing. The worst part is that we lost Nourishing Roots for more orb traits, meaning that heal revs can't apply regen without speccing into herald and camping facet of light. Well, that or we sacrifice assassin's presence.

A lot of people knock it, but that regen was really useful. It let the tablet skills "stick" to a player for a bit, compensating for the cumbersome use and narrow range of the tablet. It's useful for all of those times when your teammates have to use stick-and-move strategies, or if they're running around panicked, or if they're tanking arrow carts to operate siege. Seriously, the entire salvation line is garbage now. Everything is now one of three traits:

(1) An Orb Trait that is terrible.(2) A personal survival trait(3) A trait that says, in so many words, "do more healing."

AKA you're either a terrible healer, a terrible healer that's hard to kill, or an O.K. healer that provides no real benefit over any other. The Ventari skills are nigh useless without this line, and even with it Ventari is just what you go to once Kalla runs out of energy.

If I had to diagnose the problems the legend/support role faces, it's, well...many things:

• Ventari is too designated as the dedicated support legend, causing the rest of the class kit to suffer.
• Ventari doesn't actually do a very good job at supporting.
• Weapon skills being poor for legitimate support (Staff is a utility weapon with a splash of healing, shield is more defensive than supportive...and that's it) only further compound this issue.
• The allied heal skills are unnecessarily overcomplicated and dysfunctional. Staff 2 has a small radius, triggers at the location of impact, and is only increased if a target is hit. Staff 4 is ok at best but has a rather long cast time, shield 4 is a special snowflake skill that not only has a slow travel time, but also a relatively small radius. Ventari suffers the same problem. The skills are so impractical in actual real scenarios (in WvW), especially since superspeed spam is so common. Oh yeah, let's not talk about the impracticality of healing orbs.
• Boons are so reliant on Glint and Renegade that the class feels boon-starved at its core. And then that's the only support that Glint really offers (the legend itself, not the traitline). Elemental Blast and Burst of Strength offer no boost to support potential. They removed traits like AoE regen on tablet pulse and AoE prot on heal skill use, which were both really incredibly nice for the class outside of Glint builds.

Now what would I do? I have a whole lot of ideas.

• Transform traits that alter (or completely change) the function of skills. Due to Rev's rather restrictive legend system and limited weapon repertoire, I think this would benefit the support potential a ton. Some ideas:
  • Salvation trait: Mace 2 is converted to a water field that pulses heal/regen instead of pulsing damage/burning. Staff 4 has 2 charges
  • Herald trait: Elemental Blast is converted to an AoE pulsing heal skill that cleanses/converts condis. Have Burst of Strength increasing incoming healing on affected targets.
• More interesting traits in Salvation that replace orbs. They simply clutter the traitline far too much. Remove them and offer different ways of supporting, such as group cleansing and better boon support. I'd like one to give interaction on blast finishers personally since Rev theoretically has a ton of interaction with them.
• Make weapon skills less clunky. Make staff 2 heal PBAoE with the greater heal amount at all times, and instead have it grant regen if NO enemies are hit. Speed up the cast time of Staff 4 by like .15s. Make shield 4 a conal effect with 2 charges (but less prot). There just needs to be more practicality. The orbs on AA staff chain should just be changed to 180r healing.
• Gear Invocation a bit more towards group support. The dps bias is real in this line. Perhaps give fury a support-like interaction in its major adept line so that the minor traits actually serve a purpose? Charged Mists carries hard. Spirit Boon's 240 radius holds it back a bit in WvW; perhaps increase its radius to 300-360 in WvW only.
• More of a personal wish, but I'd like to see a wee bit of synergy within Corruption & Retribution to give them a touch bit more group support (ex: Fiendish Tenacity no longer grants resistance on swap but instead causes all resistance you apply to heal (meaning it heals allies, and Versed in Stone to apply AoE stab (with a 45s CD) on elite skill usage. Mallyx and Jalis are really great as-is IMO, but incentivizing taking Corruption for better support in Mallyx, for example, would be pretty cool for the core class).
• I'd like to honestly see a complete rework to Ventari at this point. IMO it should stop trying to be so unique and become homogenized to the functionality of the other core legends. Make it not totally unrealistic for a better variety of builds. This is a deeper vision that I haven't really thought of all the answers for, but, just some ideas...
  • Make its heal (#6) skill the actual meaty AoE heal. Keep its cost at 5 energy and give it a potency similar to that of the CA version of Glyph of Rejuvenation. 30s CD, but more of the class' overall healing is transferred to its weapon skills so it makes more sense and is a bit more normalized to other classes.
  • Give it a linear 900 range charge/trample that knocks down enemies in path and heals and/or grants boons to allies. Mobility would be huge. We need some centaur RP too.
  • Keep Purifying Essence an AoE cleanse, but make it trigger at the player and make it an AoE stunbreak w/ 30 energy. Increase its radius to 360.
  • Not really sure how to change the bubble, what to change the elite to, or how to incorporate an upkeep skill for the legend. I don't actually think that the current bubblespam potential is healthy for the game, but it should still have some sort of anti-projectile effect. I don't think its knockback spam potential is healthy either. I'd like for the elite to be the upkeep skill, I just really don't know what the kitten to do with it.

Just some thoughts. I've become totally disheartened playing Ventari builds since the big balance patch.

Some quick fixes would be:

• Make the tablet behave like a unit in an RTS game. By this I mean, it moves around with the player by default, but you can make it "Move", "Patrol" and "Hold Position" at a certain location. (This should also be added to other minions and pets as well.)
• An alternative solution is to cast the skill at both the Rev's and the tablet's location, like Scourge.
• Change all "orb" mechanics to travel as wisp-like projectiles to allied players. This way, you don't just get instant healing, and its possible to miss them if moving around too much, but players don't specifically have to move over them which is impossible in almost any fight. Picking up things off the ground is generally a bad mechanic and should never be used outside of looting, resource gathering, and events.
• Make Ventari intertwined: So having Herald would allow Ventari to apply Regeneration again. Having Renegade (or Core) would apply a different boon that synergises with those traitlines or lack thereof.
• Make the Staff both melee and ranged, like the underwater Spear (ranged attack, heal, etc. with melee burst and CC).. It also needs an autoheal. Currently its not possible to support from ranged like Ventari is intended because there's no ranged support weapon.
• Change the way #6 and #7 on Ventari work. Instead of both being direct heals that function differently, merge #6 and #7 together into a single skill then add a new #7 skill that generates barriers and grants 1sec of Resistance. The current skill set isn't viable for either healing or cleansing because the skills are expensive to use; adding barriers and Resistance boon would significantly reduce upkeep.
• Replace the Elite with a new skill that's a reverse of Epidemic. It would remove a boon from yourself and place it on nearby allies, for a reduced duration. The boon is removed to prevent a repeat of the Chronomancer fiasco. This would allow builds that aren't dependant on boon-generation like Ventari/Jalis instead of always Ventari/Glint or Ventari/Kalla.

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:The worst part is that we lost Nourishing Roots for more orb traits, meaning that heal revs can't apply regen without speccing into herald and camping facet of light. Well, that or we sacrifice assassin's presence.

A lot of people knock it, but that regen was really useful. It let the tablet skills "stick" to a player for a bit, compensating for the cumbersome use and narrow range of the tablet. It's useful for all of those times when your teammates have to use stick-and-move strategies, or if they're running around panicked, or if they're tanking arrow carts to operate siege.

Yeah, I raised a pretty big mental eyebrow when they removed that.

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:

• Transform traits that alter (or completely change) the function of skills. Due to Rev's rather restrictive legend system and limited weapon repertoire, I think this would benefit the support potential a ton. Some ideas:
  • Salvation trait: Mace 2 is converted to a water field that pulses heal/regen instead of pulsing damage/burning. Staff 4 has 2 charges
  • Herald trait: Elemental Blast is converted to an AoE pulsing heal skill that cleanses/converts condis. Have Burst of Strength increasing incoming healing on affected targets.

These are really great, fun, useful ideas. Would 10/10 be okay and happy with something like this

• More of a personal wish, but I'd like to see a wee bit of synergy within Corruption & Retribution to give them a touch bit more group support (ex: Fiendish Tenacity no longer grants resistance on swap but instead causes all resistance you apply to heal (meaning it heals allies, and Versed in Stone to apply AoE stab (with a 45s CD) on elite skill usage. Mallyx and Jalis are really great as-is IMO, but incentivizing taking Corruption for better support in Mallyx, for example, would be pretty cool for the core class).

Hard disagree on Fiendish Tenacity for a couple of reasons:1) it’s a solid trait for condi revs and is fairly vital to effective condi mitigation. I wouldn’t want Rev to lose that.2) Mallyx doesn’t apply long enough duration Resistance to allies to make use of an extra regen effect, unless it was jacked up to insanely high healing levels, which it likely won’t be. So in essence you’d lose a bunch of self resistance for extremely minimal extra healing output for a support build that probably isn’t taking Mallyx anyway. Not a good trade off

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:

• Transform traits that alter (or completely change) the function of skills. Due to Rev's rather restrictive legend system and limited weapon repertoire, I think this would benefit the support potential a ton. Some ideas:
  • Salvation trait: Mace 2 is converted to a water field that pulses heal/regen instead of pulsing damage/burning. Staff 4 has 2 charges
  • Herald trait: Elemental Blast is converted to an AoE pulsing heal skill that cleanses/converts condis. Have Burst of Strength increasing incoming healing on affected targets.

• More of a personal wish, but I'd like to see a wee bit of synergy within Corruption & Retribution to give them a touch bit more group support (ex: Fiendish Tenacity no longer grants resistance on swap but instead causes
  all
  resistance you apply to heal (meaning it heals allies, and Versed in Stone to apply AoE stab (with a 45s CD) on elite skill usage. Mallyx and Jalis are really great as-is IMO, but incentivizing taking Corruption for better support in Mallyx, for example, would be pretty cool for the core class).

Yeah, I think it is important for me to remember the perspective I speak from. I am almost always playing Charged Mists and core on my condi builds, so the amount of resistance uptime I can get is obscene, but on a Herald build it is significantly lower. At the same time, Herald has the option of running offhand shield for better condi management, and they have Mallyx F2 as a guaranteed clear even with no enemies (IIRC). The reason I thought it would be an okay change is that there is overlap with Spirit Boon to provide a double dip of resistance upon swapping to Mallyx, which IMO is a bit of an odd design choice.

However you still bring up a good point, and FT allows for more flexibility for legend choices since it is not dependent upon Mallyx. Additionally I dont play sPvP where energy costs are more expensive and there is scarce boon duration. If I am playing a Minstrel build using Mallyx (don't laugh pls ;-;) I can pump out really solid group resistance uptime to allies, so that was part of my thought process behind it.

Glad you like the other ideas though. It would be really nice to have the weapons feel more legitimate in their support-ability.

would be cool if ventaris elite -orbs would heal up to 10 people, so it could be an raid healer. i mean these orbs are worse than the staff orbs

AS a ventari rev on WvW mainly, its extremelly difficult to get the tablet into movement and on top of the healing zone needed:-

• Tablet radius on some sklills should be higher (natural harmony), or e-cost should be slight cheaper since sometimes its hard to land it on players, the dificulty of healing happens while target is on movement sometimes its a bit agressive due the gameplay speed, it needs QoL rather than buff mostly.
• Tablet movement needs something more than a 500-650heal, with the trait its a every 3 sec aoe blind but thats it.. :\ only decent for small scale or pve?
  • Tablet movement should heal arround 1k~1.2k(this with all modifyers up for heal output) at max its a 5 target skill so it would not be a problem, this would help and make tablet more eficient friendly for every one, rather than recode it to be something else
• Alacrity on tablet healing skill (natural harmony) sometimes will make it ignore the heal on the player u want to heal(while player is on your party), i have a feeling it searches for players for alacrity then heal rather than heal the lowest health in your party, i have istuations where it failed to heal the party player with <50% health and aplyed alacrity to players @ full health.
• The condi cleanse is a bit expensive, for that energy should at least apply a value of barrier for each condi cleansed rather the healing??
• The ORBS traits need to be removed, they dont work NOR FIT in this game so they become useless as dungeons are... :), improve staff gameplay with this traits... or tablet gameplay...
• Ventari elite, anything than a KB spam tool that burn my energy is better :), i dont see it more than a troll tool, the amount of condi cleanse rarelly happens cause one should be needed to fill the energy bar... this skill needs to be adressed and redesigned.. been waiting for this change since Rev release mostly.....
• Invoking armony, reduce the 10sec to 4-5sec but boost the current outgoing heal to 20-40%, or keep the 10sec but increase the 10% to 20%, we lost draconic echo for 10 :( its less player being supported by our heals, it feels kinda useless a 10% (this would also help tablet movement on its inital heals)

The ventari F2 and draconic echo was amazing for condi cleanse 10 players.I miss draconic echo for 10 player :( i used alot draconiuc echo for ventari/hearald support gameplay, even jalis F2 on herald was nice :astonished: but its an understandable change due how game works arround boon stack and spam...

What are you babbling about lol??Ventari is THE steongest healing option in the game. Healing per second AND incredible burst healing.Revenant has THE highest healing per cast in the game. And you want it buffed even more???Healing orbs themselves are super strong as you can generate tons of them to lay down there and be picked up when needed in between your heal casting for example to provide nice stream of healing instead of bursty one. They scale VERY good because they are aoe heals.

Tablet being movable is amazing and I would NEVER want to see it changed. You are just bad at supporting. And people are bad at being supported.
-Moving Tablet allows me to send it to cleanse people far away from me in raids and PvP or PvE,-It allows me to Heal people far away wothout having to move at all from my spot. So i can heal people without stopping to DPS at all, which means constant Healing Orbs generation.-it makes your most broken skill the projectile dome Movable on its own. NO ONE HAS THAT. No class has it! I can put my dome in middle of passage willed with ground AOE conditions and protect my group. Things normaly people cant do.Not to mention sending it to protect downed ally who is getting rezzed by teammate.And IT HAS NO CD!!Not only that but it counts as Healing Skill, procing all the "When Using Healing Skill"Runes and effects like maniac.Same goes for our Elite spell.

• So you coming here to cry about bad healing is ridiculous. I guess time for necros to cry because their shroud depletes on its own 5% per sec. That must be buffed. OMG Lol...

• And RENEGADE has most broken healing spell in the game. Its 6, heals people around you for 30k.. THIRTY DAMN THOUSANDS PER ONE CAST PER ONE PERSON. And on top of that it reduces condi damage taken while it lasts. And its almost free to use and stacks with Soulcleave which is another most broken thing.

• ive had warriors, rangers, thieves heal 7-10k hp per second on their own only with SoulCleave.

• Revenant is THE most broken healer in all game modes right now, covering Everything a Healer could wish for, Renegade makes that even more OP. It needs a Nerf not buff.

-You need to learn to heal. No class can press ONE buttton and deliver 11k AOE heal to whole group. And have s passive ticking Regen around tablet which stacks with SoothingMist and Regeneration.

-Press heal the moment you see boss is about to hit a player and Than send your tablet to them. And it will heal the moment it arrives making it instant.You want to dumb down the class so that people cant move Tablet?? And what than? Chase people around yourself to heal them? wow mate, I am impressed. Thats biggest nerf Revenant can get. You have mobile AOE heal you can deliver ANYWHERE but you want to nerf it.

LEARN YOUR CLASS, Scourge Necros have learned to pre cast barriers at right time, to maximize their usage and they can only prevent so much, you still need to be healed.Revenant getting barrier instead of heals would be another dumb thing as it would go to Waste. People have from 12 to 15k hp. Most of them. And you would be capped at 6 to 8k barriers because barriers cannot exceed 50%HP. Now why would I change Instant 11k heal for barrier? Explain yourself please.You mannage Renegade Heal and Soulcleave and Ventari with Invocation for insane amount of healing and alacrity, 25might etc... And all with insane range that doesnt require you to even be there.

• I dont even want to mention Staff skills which are BONUS on top of all of it. Providing INSANE bar break
• very good Hp/s heal because of orbs
• and if you dont utilize first Staff 4 and than ventari for conditions you are doing it wrong.If you dont know to heal with thr strongest healing Output class in the game, because it requires some game awareness and skill, move to Tempest.

Some great ideas in here everyone love it. Except this guy. Those orbs don't heal anything in wvw. The speed on movement is to slow. And soul cleave is useless again, in wvw. Go away if you don't want to add constructive thoughts instead of the old l2play bull. Sure it has some advantages. Has more disadvantages though.

we have fine tablet. If other 4 player in each party not accept it and chose another build combination this is not issue for rev. We have possibility have good sup heal ventary ? yes. It cool, fun. If people look easests way - this si another question.

@"Marko Welder.3547" said:What are you babbling about lol??Ventari is THE steongest healing option in the game. Healing per second AND incredible burst healing.Revenant has THE highest healing per cast in the game. And you want it buffed even more???Healing orbs themselves are super strong as you can generate tons of them to lay down there and be picked up when needed in between your heal casting for example to provide nice stream of healing instead of bursty one. They scale VERY good because they are aoe heals.

Tablet being movable is amazing and I would NEVER want to see it changed. You are just bad at supporting. And people are bad at being supported.

-Moving Tablet allows me to send it to cleanse people far away from me in raids and PvP or PvE,-It allows me to Heal people far away wothout having to move at all from my spot. So i can heal people without stopping to DPS at all, which means constant Healing Orbs generation.-it makes your most broken skill the projectile dome Movable on its own. NO ONE HAS THAT. No class has it! I can put my dome in middle of passage willed with ground AOE conditions and protect my group. Things normaly people cant do.Not to mention sending it to protect downed ally who is getting rezzed by teammate.And IT HAS NO CD!!Not only that but it counts as Healing Skill, procing all the "When Using Healing Skill"Runes and effects like maniac.Same goes for our Elite spell.

• So you coming here to cry about bad healing is ridiculous. I guess time for necros to cry because their shroud depletes on its own 5% per sec. That must be buffed. OMG Lol...

• And RENEGADE has most broken healing spell in the game. Its 6, heals people around you for 30k.. THIRTY kitten THOUSANDS PER ONE CAST PER ONE PERSON. And on top of that it reduces condi damage taken while it lasts. And its almost free to use and stacks with Soulcleave which is another most broken thing.

• ive had warriors, rangers, thieves heal 7-10k hp per second on their own only with SoulCleave.

• Revenant is THE most broken healer in all game modes right now, covering Everything a Healer could wish for, Renegade makes that even more OP. It needs a Nerf not buff.

-You need to learn to heal. No class can press ONE buttton and deliver 11k AOE heal to whole group. And have s passive ticking Regen around tablet which stacks with SoothingMist and Regeneration.

-Press heal the moment you see boss is about to hit a player and Than send your tablet to them. And it will heal the moment it arrives making it instant.You want to dumb down the class so that people cant move Tablet?? And what than? Chase people around yourself to heal them? wow mate, I am impressed. Thats biggest nerf Revenant can get. You have mobile AOE heal you can deliver ANYWHERE but you want to nerf it.

LEARN YOUR CLASS, Scourge Necros have learned to pre cast barriers at right time, to maximize their usage and they can only prevent so much, you still need to be healed.Revenant getting barrier instead of heals would be another dumb thing as it would go to Waste. People have from 12 to 15k hp. Most of them. And you would be capped at 6 to 8k barriers because barriers cannot exceed 50%HP. Now why would I change Instant 11k heal for barrier? Explain yourself please.You mannage Renegade Heal and Soulcleave and Ventari with Invocation for insane amount of healing and alacrity, 25might etc... And all with insane range that doesnt require you to even be there.

• I dont even want to mention Staff skills which are BONUS on top of all of it. Providing INSANE bar break
• very good Hp/s heal because of orbs
• and if you dont utilize first Staff 4 and than ventari for conditions you are doing it wrong.If you dont know to heal with thr strongest healing Output class in the game, because it requires some game awareness and skill, move to Tempest.

Yeah no. While it is the strongest burst healing in the game and Renegade’s Soulcleave is insanely good, Support Rev (specifically ventari) isn’t the top pick in PvE because it lacks access to damage and CC mitigation tools (I.e. aegis and stability). Jalis is great for stability, but if you’re running Ventari/Kalla then you have to drop one of them to bring him. This is heal/support Rev’s biggest issue; it just doesn’t compete with Healbrand for the top spot since it can’t slot the level of mitigation that Healbrand can. Not taking damage is always superior to taking damage and then healing from it (and it’s not like HB is bad at actually healing, either). HealRev is arguably worse than Tempest, too, since Tempest has Rebound + 25 might/fury + great condi cleanse + consistent healing all for 10man.

No one is crying about bad healing from Ventari. Obviously it’s a strong healer in terms of raw heals and the projectile block is great, but it does have some issues that hold it back from being top tier. The lack of damage mitigation outside of projectile destruction, its somewhat weak condi cleanse, and its somewhat clunky mechanics holds Ventari back considerably, especially in WvW and PvP. Ventari is fine in PvE but it’s still only the 3rd or 4th best option for a healer/support because of the above issues as well.

I’m not sure how you can consider it “the most broken healer” in all game modes when it’s not being played by most people and none of the top tier players in Pve/pvp/wvw are running it....

it makes your most broken skill the projectile dome Movable on its own. NO ONE HAS THAT. No class has it! I can put my dome in middle of passage willed with ground AOE conditions and protect my group

Just to clarify, the projectile dome doesn’t protect from ground targeted AoEs. If you’re putting your dome in a “passage filled with ground AOE conditions” you’re not blocking any of those ground targeted AoEs. They’re still hitting your group. The dome only blocks actual projectiles.

Issues:

• Tablet: QoL
• Orbs: QoL
• Salvation: blindly buff things with QoL issues.

Solutions:

• Tablet: Either modify Ventari's will to summon the tablet to you on use or have a trait that make this change of fonctionality. (It shouldn't be difficult to implement, ranger's spirits already do that)
• Orbs: There is honnestly no solution here.
• Salvation: Change the focus of the "orb line" and the "increased healing line" (The "defense" line is fine).

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

• Orbs: There is honnestly no solution here.Change Healing Orbs to explode with a burst of healing if not picked up.Orbs that explode Heal for 25% more in an AoE.

• Salvation: Change the focus of the "orb line" and the "increased healing line" (The "defense" line is fine).

Traits need shuffling too, and orb line can still work with a little rework.Ventari Legend focused traits should by no means be Minor traits - it stifles the usability of the traitline a bunch.Shuffle Serene Rejuvenation with Resilient Spirit.

Staff autos and Words of Censure already provides enough Healing Orb generation with a single Staff 5 through enemy(s), change GM Generous Abundance to another trait which makes Healing Orbs deal 50% of their healing as damage to enemies, making them mini mines.

ventari needs better aoe and a stunbreak, thats all. instant tablet travel would be nice.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@"Marko Welder.3547" said:What are you babbling about lol??Ventari is THE steongest healing option in the game. Healing per second AND incredible burst healing.Revenant has THE highest healing per cast in the game. And you want it buffed even more???Healing orbs themselves are super strong as you can generate tons of them to lay down there and be picked up when needed in between your heal casting for example to provide nice stream of healing instead of bursty one. They scale VERY good because they are aoe heals.

Tablet being movable is amazing and I would NEVER want to see it changed. You are just bad at supporting. And people are bad at being supported.

-Moving Tablet allows me to send it to cleanse people far away from me in raids and PvP or PvE,-It allows me to Heal people far away wothout having to move at all from my spot. So i can heal people without stopping to DPS at all, which means constant Healing Orbs generation.-it makes your most broken skill the projectile dome Movable on its own. NO ONE HAS THAT. No class has it! I can put my dome in middle of passage willed with ground AOE conditions and protect my group. Things normaly people cant do.Not to mention sending it to protect downed ally who is getting rezzed by teammate.And IT HAS NO CD!!Not only that but it counts as Healing Skill, procing all the "When Using Healing Skill"Runes and effects like maniac.Same goes for our Elite spell.

• So you coming here to cry about bad healing is ridiculous. I guess time for necros to cry because their shroud depletes on its own 5% per sec. That must be buffed. OMG Lol...

• And RENEGADE has most broken healing spell in the game. Its 6, heals people around you for 30k.. THIRTY kitten THOUSANDS PER ONE CAST PER ONE PERSON. And on top of that it reduces condi damage taken while it lasts. And its almost free to use and stacks with Soulcleave which is another most broken thing.

• ive had warriors, rangers, thieves heal 7-10k hp per second on their own only with SoulCleave.

• Revenant is THE most broken healer in all game modes right now, covering Everything a Healer could wish for, Renegade makes that even more OP. It needs a Nerf not buff.

-You need to learn to heal. No class can press ONE buttton and deliver 11k AOE heal to whole group. And have s passive ticking Regen around tablet which stacks with SoothingMist and Regeneration.

-Press heal the moment you see boss is about to hit a player and Than send your tablet to them. And it will heal the moment it arrives making it instant.You want to dumb down the class so that people cant move Tablet?? And what than? Chase people around yourself to heal them? wow mate, I am impressed. Thats biggest nerf Revenant can get. You have mobile AOE heal you can deliver ANYWHERE but you want to nerf it.

LEARN YOUR CLASS, Scourge Necros have learned to pre cast barriers at right time, to maximize their usage and they can only prevent so much, you still need to be healed.Revenant getting barrier instead of heals would be another dumb thing as it would go to Waste. People have from 12 to 15k hp. Most of them. And you would be capped at 6 to 8k barriers because barriers cannot exceed 50%HP. Now why would I change Instant 11k heal for barrier? Explain yourself please.You mannage Renegade Heal and Soulcleave and Ventari with Invocation for insane amount of healing and alacrity, 25might etc... And all with insane range that doesnt require you to even be there.

• I dont even want to mention Staff skills which are BONUS on top of all of it. Providing INSANE bar break
• very good Hp/s heal because of orbs
• and if you dont utilize first Staff 4 and than ventari for conditions you are doing it wrong.If you dont know to heal with thr strongest healing Output class in the game, because it requires some game awareness and skill, move to Tempest.

it makes your most broken skill the projectile dome Movable on its own. NO ONE HAS THAT. No class has it! I can put my dome in middle of passage willed with ground AOE conditions and protect my group

I know how it works. Thing is you can place it to protect yourself on some niche places where others cant because they would have to stand in those AOEs.Tempest doesnt have stability for group either regularly and has worse healing than Rev.NO one brings what Firebrand doesDruid brings nothing Firebrand doesnt already, but it also lacks stability, aegis, quickness,Tempest sameEngineer sameCompared to Firebrand all healers are inferior.

Revenant isnt supposed to be firebrand. He is supposed to bring Unique healing mechanics and buffs that stack with other healers. But on top of that it also has highest healing output in the entire game.

@Marko Welder.3547 said:

I know how it works. Thing is you can place it to protect yourself on some niche places where others cant because they would have to stand in those AOEs.Tempest doesnt have stability for group either regularly and has worse healing than Rev.NO one brings what Firebrand doesDruid brings nothing Firebrand doesnt already, but it also lacks stability, aegis, quickness,Tempest sameEngineer sameCompared to Firebrand all healers are inferior.

Revenant isnt supposed to be firebrand. He is supposed to bring Unique healing mechanics and buffs that stack with other healers. But on top of that it also has highest healing output in the entire game.

Tempest does have Stab for group. And the healing is just as good if played right along with aurashare and better cleansing.Being unique doesn't make it good. None of it is comparable to any of them on any metric in any game mode. oh look at me I can put up a bubble on a strike boss while we all stack on each other and rub thighs. That isn't what myself and many others are looking for in this game or this class. We don't want easier, we want better. It should have some cohesion with other elements of the class. It doesn't.

Druid brings spirits. Which is why the healers in raid builds are generally not healbrands.

@draxynnic.3719 said:Druid brings spirits. Which is why the healers in raid builds are generally not healbrands.

Exactly. It's not only that but I'd say that's the spirits are unique enough to be the main reason. (Obviously, being able to keep up protection, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 players/allies and having great access to CCs all while healing help as well. Spotter might just be the cherry on top of the cake allowing some builds variation.)

Seems like a large part of Ventari support is you have to legend swap out of it.

Seems like it would be better if Ventari Legend had an inherent effect that up-ticked energy resource so you would have some better ability to stay in it much longer.

@draxynnic.3719 said:Druid brings spirits. Which is why the healers in raid builds are generally not healbrands.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Druid brings spirits. Which is why the healers in raid builds are generally not healbrands.

After months of through testing, druid spirits all together, are barely 4.2% dps increase. And he has to choose them instead of other utility skills.Also Spotter is NO bonus at all, because builds that depend on crit rate have already capped crit and they don't tweak their builds counting that they will have druid all the time giving those 4.7% crit chance which is neligible. Even those who are not crit capped are above 90% crit rate, so its really not an increase at all.So, I will try to explain and therefore expand your meta-mentality in hopes you can realize new things:

• Druid brings 4.2% dps increase with all spirits , by sacrificing all other utility spells.Druis brings Protection, Regen, Vigor, Fury, Swiftness, Might(25)Druid brings spotter which is neligible but I will put it here just for you. A barely 2% dps increase. But here i put it.So all in all, druid brings 6-7% dps increase. And some basic boons, wooowmon, Spiritzzz I do 99999999% dmg coz we got spiritzzzz , sure bro. Spiritzzzzs

• FIREPADRE:Brings Protection, Regen, Vigor, Fury, Swiftness, Might(25), Stability, Retaliation, Aegis, Quickness, Resistance, Symbols, Toughness(aura), Group stunbreaks too!Brings UNIQUE buffs like 33% healing increase, and 300 Toughness.

• Compared to Druid and his lame kitten Spirits this are the things that Firebrand brings that Druid does NOT:

• AEGIS, RESISTANCE, STABILITY(on demand often), RETALIATION, QUICKNESS, BETTER HEALING, UNIQUE 300 Tougness, UNIQUE 33% healing increase, Much better Condi-Cleanse, Symbols, Toughness(aura), Group Stunbreaks.

• Quickness alone increases DPS by 39%. Vs Druid 6-7%. (all spirits combined) (But Spirriitzzzz BRUH, Meta mon, we meta players, we gut.)

Just keep your Druid and your SPiritizzzzzz and keep believing in his magical druidic powers and huuuuge dps increase.After clearing all raids countless times, the ONLY healers I even consider using is FB x2 or FB+Renegade. End of story. Not only that Numbers don't lie. But the overall utility and things which are bonus on top of it are just that cherry on the cake.

PS: Ah yeah, the Renegade boy, he also outclasses your Druid and his allmighty Spiritzzzz (9000% dps bonus). In every aspect. Healing and dps bonus to group. Also tested with DPS meters through countless dungeons and all. Not to mention his Soulcleave just stacks with all other bonus effects and is sick dps increase to group. Alac as well. So if you come and tell me "But I will take Chrono for quickness etc.." Sure man I do so sometimes myself too. But than I don't bring 6% dps called DRUID , I bring Renegade-Padre-De-La-Stomp-On-Druid and enjoy 30-80% dps increase compared to druid, depending on weapons my fellow raid members use. If they utilize skills that hit several times, the bonus healing and damage from Soulcleave can sometimes be bigger than double.

Edit: Spiritzzz mon, druid must best he spiritz bring! Oh how I love when people are hard stuck on something narrowminded and strongly believe despite countless Tools to check numbers in these days and compare gains and losses.