When get invis and invuls nerfed?

wvw is a mess with all this perma invis, perma invul, perma dodge builds existing.

its not possible to fight in roaming. every roamer ist just playing hit and run. mesmers and thiefes are trying to one shot people. if they succed they win and if this failed they cast instantly invis and run away wit endless mobility. 90% of roamers are paying thief or mesmer and its simply not funny. there are no fights, no skill rotations just 2 buttons to win or to make the decision to get invis for 20+ seconds and run away...

or mirages get leap on every invuldodge with mirage trust, every elite give teleport + blink and mirage advance. its just loughable that everyon in wvw is playing endless mobility builds for save escape and no one else than thiefes and mesmers are able to kill thiefes and mesmers...

this is absurd and ruin the whole gameplay...no class should have access to invis+high mobilty+invuls+blocks all together like thiefes and mesmers have.

anet should create counter skills for that like they created counters for blocks in the last years. but without any chance to counter invis+high mobility+invul this is simply OP. and the best is, the very rare skills that CAN reveal get countered instantly by deadeye elite. so its not possible to reveal a thief to attack him...

What class and build are you playing at the moment? Maybe some of us here might be able to help you in dealing with thieves & mesmers. Worth a shot. Show us your current build it might help give some insight.

main issue in solo roaming are larger roaming groups not specific builds and for a roaming group a passing thief or mes might be annoying but shouldnt kill them if they are on similar skill level.i did roam on any class but over the years being more and more outnumbered in the fights and with the powercreep making a bunch of noobs an actual threat, i felt like being pushed to play thief. because i dont want to be killed or run away from people that would have absolutly no chance in any 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 fight against me.

but as demonseed already said, tell us what class build you run and if you run together with other, what they run. there are also many diffrent thief and mesmer builds running around, each might have different strength and weaknesses so its important for you to recognize what they are playing and not just the class. then we can give you tips how to fight them.

keep in mind tho, that if a thief doesnt want to get killed and you dont bring like 20+ people and limit the thieves space like inside a keep, then it is nearly impossible to kill the thief. so to kill them generally you got to bait them to attack. because then they are vulnerable and can be killed or you have to gank them out of stealth or out of their field of view (best while they are distracted )try to think like the thief: would you attack a 5 man group stacked together, if you can quickly kill just one of them and if they all together sneeze you will drop yourself?

I have said this many times before, and I will say it again...stealth is the most BS gimmick every used. It has no place in any kind of PvP game mode. Unfortunately anet has not only failed to properly balance stealth, they turned it into an absolutely pathetic joke and an excellent example of terrible skill and mechanic design.

mirage is just too powerful with invul+stealth+mobi.Nerf needed

I acknowledge the issue and the frustration, and I don't like stealth as well. The whole concept of "get out of the blue, one shot or vanish at F1 speed" is lame. I want to ask one question about it :

Why only thieves/mesmers for solo roaming ?

Solo roaming means you're not building a complementary team, so you need a class that can performs correctly for both damage and survivability, especially when you can cross more enemies that you could deal with. Just like MUDse is saying. Thieves and mesmers are good for that, because of mobility, which is a really significant way of surviving. Defensive stats or skills are not that performing actually... Warriors used to be a thing, but I guess the recent nerf of stances made them too fragile for solo roaming. So I'm not sure what works "really" well for solo roaming beyond thief and mesmer.

Yeah its just disgusting but who am i? Anet keeps destroying this mode more and more with all this kind of bullcrap. Going to hide before the pitchforked whiteknights come to tell me how great those builds are and i need to l2 adapt.

Theres a thing called "Revealed" which some classes have acces to.Step off that nec and try it out ?

Actually most roamers I see these days are rangers either power druids or Soulbeast and power holosmiths lol, and then a bunch of things in between... There is a big variety as far as I've seen. Not that many mesmers or thieves comparatively only equal in proportion. But they all use stealth and invuln. So many rangers and holosmith pop stealth and invuln and escape super well. Even when I'm playing mirage I have difficulty catching them. Ofc thieves have always been like that as well but both mesmers and thieves seem way more squishy when you land a hit.

@"Caedmon.6798" said:Theres a thing called "Revealed" which some classes have acces to.Step off that nec and try it out ?"Some" classes and all of the reveal skills are weak as kitten and barely even worth using - if they cant stealth, they teleport away. And then stealth again.

Personally I think the solution is fairly simple when it comes to stealth.

First, delete revealed abilities, they are pointless.Second, make stealth unstackable.Third, make it so unstealthing in combat (either via attack from stealth or when stealth expire) you are automaticly revealed for 6 seconds.Fourth, applying any stealth cause you to go in combat.

Problem solved.

Stealth/invis is a broken mechanic, will always be a broken mechanic, especially so in gw2.Proper counters were not even present in the beginning, and slowly over the years some have been introduced.Meanwhile classes have been getting more reliable stealth, and those same classes are also getting more invuls, evades, mobility.It was built entirely around a class, so it won't be changed because you would have to change that class entirely.

It will never be fixed. This is why "roaming" is now actually "group ganking". There is no balance with this game, never will be until the balance team gets out of pve.

You forgot perma-resistance, that's worse than all 3 of those combined. But yes, I agree, the invul, the stealth, and dodge/evade all need to be drastically toned down. Case and point, I was on the ranger the other night targeting a SB; nothing fancy, just letting 1 auto-attack at range as the SB moved in and out of range. What happened was there was what seemed to be 10-15s of straight evade without them actually dodging. I'm not sure if this was a hack or completely doable in game, and it's not the first time I've seen it too.

@DemonSeed.3528 said:What class and build are you playing at the moment? Maybe some of us here might be able to help you in dealing with thieves & mesmers. Worth a shot. Show us your current build it might help give some insight.

my problem is not fighting mesmers or thiefs. if i fight them for example in guildhall i can kill them because the space in guildarena is very limited.

but in wvw its not important which of the other classes you are playing. you simply cannot kill this classes (mesm and thief). there are just 2 options:1.) they win with one shoot2.) you dodge, they escape and try again2.1) they win with one shoot2.2.) you dodge, they escape and try again2.2.1) they win with one shoot2.2.2) you dodge, they escape and try again...............no chance for you...e.g. one shot weaver is dangerous but you can handle it because you see it, AND weaver isnt so fast so you can kill him after failed one shoot...against deadeyes and mesmers you cannot win.

I'd like to know when this passive runaway hero style will end. It makes fights very incomplete and boring. I'd remove all passive invunlns, players need to start using skill instead of crutches incorporated into their build. Turn up the difficulty mode from EZ to medium anet, lets go here.

can we talk about how holos have 2 invulns, stealth, massive AoE and tons of boons lol

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:can we talk about how holos have 2 invulns, stealth, massive AoE and tons of boons lolNo, because at least that is both stealth and invoulns done right. He only got a stealth on long cd and the invoulns mean he cant do anything but stomp.

@"Zero.3871" said:wvw is a mess with all this perma invis, perma invul, perma dodge builds existing.

its not possible to fight in roaming. every roamer ist just playing hit and run. mesmers and thiefes are trying to one shot people. if they succed they win and if this failed they cast instantly invis and run away wit endless mobility. 90% of roamers are paying thief or mesmer and its simply not funny. there are no fights, no skill rotations just 2 buttons to win or to make the decision to get invis for 20+ seconds and run away...

or mirages get leap on every invuldodge with mirage trust, every elite give teleport + blink and mirage advance. its just loughable that everyon in wvw is playing endless mobility builds for save escape and no one else than thiefes and mesmers are able to kill thiefes and mesmers...

this is absurd and ruin the whole gameplay...no class should have access to invis+high mobilty+invuls+blocks all together like thiefes and mesmers have.

anet should create counter skills for that like they created counters for blocks in the last years. but without any chance to counter invis+high mobility+invul this is simply OP. and the best is, the very rare skills that CAN reveal get countered instantly by deadeye elite. so its not possible to reveal a thief to attack him...

try play thief..

u play "bunker" build u can barely ram out enough dmg to tickle some1 balls before they heal up fully..u play zerk build u can try spike some1 down but with all aegis and invuls other bullshit flying around its not that easy anymore also.

bunker build will lose any fight cus of no dmg and thief bunker doesnt really exist xDzerk build u can 2/3 hit em.

mesmer on the other hand i agree first time i saw them after patch i didnt understand how something has more evades then a thief but w/e.not playing gw2 anymore since condi is meta anet is doing all nice stuff etc but they have their backs towards WvW and sPvP..aslong PvE is running nicely then they are doing a goodjob no1 cares about sPvP or WvW.

Necros have none of that...

@Galmac.4680 said:Necros have none of that...

but they got a spot in the lootsquad were thief and mirage got none :(

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Galmac.4680 said:Necros have none of that...

Lootsquad = overrated.

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:can we talk about how holos have 2 invulns, stealth, massive AoE and tons of boons lol

Absolutely, I personally hate passive invulns in WvW.

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:can we talk about how holos have 2 invulns, stealth, massive AoE and tons of boons lol

^This

That's why I have stopped roaming and joined the giant zerg. Thief and mesmers are too strong in the roaming scene. There is nothing that can stop them, even a streamer was saying: "If I don't want to be killed, then they can't kill me." Anet needs to cut down mobility and stealth mechanism. And then you have people wondering why roaming isn't a thing.... No joke it's not fun fighting against thieves and mesmers. You can't run from them, you can't catch them, and whenever they make a mistake, they just go stealth/invul/block......etc. Reveal don't justify how broken they are. They can perfectly survive even without stealth.

1. The mobility needs to get cut down. Seriously. Make all mobility skills have a shared global CD of 2-3 s.
2. Stealth needs natural counter. Examples could be: You can see them when they are close to you. You can see a slightly blurry picture when they are moving, you cannot see them when they stand still. You can reveal them by hitting them twice, and the debuff reveal will be on them for a few secs. You move with half the speed in stealth, and cannot use any other skills(with the only exception steal), because it will reveal you. Everytime you go out of stealth you have a reveal debuff so you can't spam it. Combo no longer gives stealth. NOT all, but one or two of these ideas. Remember they are just examples.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Caedmon.6798" said:Theres a thing called "Revealed" which some classes have acces to.Step off that nec and try it out ?"Some" classes and all of the reveal skills are weak as kitten and barely even worth using - if they cant stealth, they teleport away. And then stealth again.

Weak as shit ? I beg to differ,the times i caught a thief or mesmer with tether ( Reveal + Pull ) after they tried to stealth ( I usually pop Gs burst when they stealth in my face,so i still have rush/whirl available to reconnect or switch to dag for 2 + burst after they get pulled back ) and port have made me win certain encounters where otherwise he could have ran off/reset/.Im not using the other utils i list below simply because i need sustain utils.But Tether alone can be a complete counter vs them.Im not denying stealth is strong and im not saying im a fan of stealth either though.Basically if a thief wants to bail he will bail,same goes for mesmer.But still u can mess them up with a nicely timed reveal where they can have a panic moment in a situation where they might have needed that stealth.So if you do roam,get someone with you that has acces to some form of reveal util/skill.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magebane_Tether_(trait_skill)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sight_beyond_Sighthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22On_My_Mark!%22

Do want to add there is currently a bug ( Or intended,no idea ) where Tether does not activate at all when bursting with rifle where you target is beyond the 600 pull range,where i think it should activate no matter if im using it at 1200 range and then simply pull the target to 600 range.

@Zero.3871 said:1.) they win with one shoot

You are either lying or running a bad build. Which is it? If they are literally killing you in one single shot, you are running very bad builds, and the fault is yours.

2.) you dodge, they escape and try again

You mean they disengage, heal, and reengage? It may suck, but it is an intelligent and reasonable tactic. Seems to be that you are just crying because they step back and refuse to repeatedly run into your fist for you.

2.1) they win with one shoot

You are either lying or running a bad build. Which is it? If they are literally killing you in one single shot, you are running very bad builds, and the fault is yours.

2.2.) you dodge, they escape and try again

You mean they disengage, heal, and reengage? It may suck, but it is an intelligent and reasonable tactic. Seems to be that you are just crying because they step back and refuse to repeatedly run into your fist for you.

2.2.1) they win with one shoot

You are either lying or running a bad build. Which is it? If they are literally killing you in one single shot, you are running very bad builds, and the fault is yours.

2.2.2) you dodge, they escape and try again

You mean they disengage, heal, and reengage? It may suck, but it is an intelligent and reasonable tactic. Seems to be that you are just crying because they step back and refuse to repeatedly run into your fist for you.