Why aren’t soulbeasts wanted in any squad? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why aren’t soulbeasts wanted in any squad?

anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭

So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

  • they don’t bring support
  • Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
  • They don’t do damage
  • They are dead weight

But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)
Aren’t the shared stances useful?
Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

<13

Comments

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    What's ironic is that projectile-hate is not super effective against Soulbeast, as they actually have very good unblockable uptime.

    If I were leading a squad, I would welcome Soulbeasts so long as they brought unblockablility and stance share with Dolyak Stance and Bear Stance. The rest I can take or leave overall.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Henrik.7560Henrik.7560 Member ✭✭✭

    Too much of a pain to ask a soulbeast to run what you want, usually they only play their own pewpew builds and are hardly ever in coms.
    FB does better heals and gives stability and resistance than druid
    Weaver does same damage as soulbeast except to 10 people instead of 1 plus doesnt rely on projectiles
    It is just better for a roaming spec not a group comp spec, they're trash in melee usually and can't push with commander instead have to sit on a wall and pewpew

    [eA] Sakura | Kaineng

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    What's ironic is that projectile-hate is not super effective against Soulbeast, as they actually have very good unblockable uptime.

    If I were leading a squad, I would welcome Soulbeasts so long as they brought unblockablility and stance share with Dolyak Stance and Bear Stance. The rest I can take or leave overall.

    Yeah but let's face it: An overwhelming majority want to run their glass cannon pewpew MMS builds.

    Which I am absolutely guilty of wanting to do myself, which is why I don't zerg with mine.

    Without holding their attacks back until unblockables are around, a few soulbeasts can wipe your own frontline easily. For a lot of commanders, the risk isn't worth taking.

    Plus, generally speaking, scourge/ele/rev is just superior. Yeah, SB offers some support, but the uptime it brings is pretty low compared to an ele or hammer rev as far as reliable big damage goes that won't be reflected back.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • Balthazzarr.1349Balthazzarr.1349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    It's interesting to me how many people don't really get that soulbeast (one or two) can be a pretty decent thing to have on a backline in a squad. If you know what you're doing you can provide a lot of damage from range. All this talk about reflects negating the pewpews?? I run Soulbeast almost exclusively with the fight group I run with. I run it because I know how to use it effectively. Sure I could add to the number of firebrands, scourges, spellbreakers, etc that we have but meh... that gets boring.

    Glass cannon? My soulbeast is built as nasty as a so called zerk but with plenty of health etc to go along with it. One notable bonus of a sniper class like soulbeast is that if you know how to look for spellbreakers, (which I do well), you can take them out pretty fast since they're already trying to survive a lot of other damage.

    Typically my soulbeast starts off with the following before stacks,(which, in a typical night I get in a few seconds into the first fight):

    Power: 2500+
    Crit: 60%+
    Crit damage: 200%+
    Health: 22.7k
    Toughness: 1000+

    Toughness is low and to me that truly doesn't matter much since it doesn't protect against condition damage anyway. I find it's not a factor in pretty much any fights I get into. With stacks and buffs my crit can hit over 100% and power over 3000. I get a LOT of kills in a fight from the back line.

    You can talk all day long about support buffs etc. but it definitely helps if you have some extra nasty fire power coming from behind. ... and again... reflects? Don't make me laugh really... I can honestly say that I can remember maybe once or twice in the last week of constant fights where I actually got bounced back with a reflect. By the time I am raining on the enemy inside our WoD or simply where the main fight is they've wasted their reflects trying to survive the up close and personal fighting.

    I admit that I WILL switch to spellbreaker or firebrand if we are running lean and need a good core for fights. But if we swell into a good size (20 or more) of good fight builds, then I will switch back out to my sniper. Powering down/finishing specific targets like enemy spellbreakers even while they're inside their group is nothing short of fun... and definitely supportive!

    This won't convince the folks that are already anti soulbeast etc but it works for us a huge amount of the time... but as noted above you really have to know what you're doing and do it fairly decently. That's the main reason my commander never complains on my choice of class to run for the night ;)

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Soulbeasts could rival heralds as supportive brawlers if they ever changed Leader of the Pack. Shared stances at 150% duration would be a huge deal. Stong condition removal, immunity to immobilizes, defensive boons, etc. Not to mention additional utility and burst depending on your choice of pet. That is if they ever consider a change like that. There are certainly many better options even outside of the big three right now.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    It's interesting to me how many people don't really get that soulbeast (one or two) can be a pretty decent thing to have on a backline in a squad. If you know what you're doing you can provide a lot of damage from range. All this talk about reflects negating the pewpews?? I run Soulbeast almost exclusively with the fight group I run with. I run it because I know how to use it effectively. Sure I could add to the number of firebrands, scourges, spellbreakers, etc that we have but meh... that gets boring.

    Glass cannon? My soulbeast is built as nasty as a so called zerk but with plenty of health etc to go along with it. One notable bonus of a sniper class like soulbeast is that if you know how to look for spellbreakers, (which I do well), you can take them out pretty fast since they're already trying to survive a lot of other damage.

    Typically my soulbeast starts off with the following before stacks,(which, in a typical night I get in a few seconds into the first fight):

    Power: 2500+
    Crit: 60%+
    Crit damage: 200%+
    Health: 22.7k
    Toughness: 1000+

    Toughness is low and to me that truly doesn't matter much since it doesn't protect against condition damage anyway. I find it's not a factor in pretty much any fights I get into. With stacks and buffs my crit can hit over 100% and power over 3000. I get a LOT of kills in a fight from the back line.

    You can talk all day long about support buffs etc. but it definitely helps if you have some extra nasty fire power coming from behind. ... and again... reflects? Don't make me laugh really... I can honestly say that I can remember maybe once or twice in the last week of constant fights where I actually got bounced back with a reflect. By the time I am raining on the enemy inside our WoD or simply where the main fight is they've wasted their reflects trying to survive the up close and personal fighting.

    I admit that I WILL switch to spellbreaker or firebrand if we are running lean and need a good core for fights. But if we swell into a good size (20 or more) of good fight builds, then I will switch back out to my sniper. Powering down/finishing specific targets like enemy spellbreakers even while they're inside their group is nothing short of fun... and definitely supportive!

    This won't convince the folks that are already anti soulbeast etc but it works for us a huge amount of the time... but as noted above you really have to know what you're doing and do it fairly decently. That's the main reason my commander never complains on my choice of class to run for the night ;)

    You see >>>> If you know what you're doing <<<<< is the important part here.
    You can give a totaly new player a Blood magic Scourge build and he is a usefull part of the squad in like an hour.

    For a Soulbeast to become usefull , the player need alot of practice. And most people that play Ranger dont have that.

    Thats mostly because they never try other classes and see how much more usefull they could be.

    On the Power Dmg part.

    The question is "What are you going to kill with it?"
    (We asume all player have equal skill level)

    Meta Guard ( any spec) will not die to this. To tanky.
    Meta Scourge (blood) also will not die to this.
    They have perma Protection without guard support , dmg reduction from Blood as Sand , high toughness , high healthpool and more.

    Meta Weaver maybe or a Rev.
    So 60-70% of every pug zerg "should" never die to this , even without the use of Reflection.
    ( Bad / below avarage Guard / Scourge player will definitely die to this.)

    And if a projectile based build would become dangerous enough to change the chance of winning in the enemies favor.
    Then the zerg will slot anti projectile skills.

    YES. A soulbeast can be good but the average soulbeast is not.

    It all depends on the skill level of all players , enemy and ally.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    in my squad it's ok. you have aes and very high dps to focus enemy rev scourge ele or com.

    but we dont want to many rangers. like we prefer to have atleast 3 wars and not more than 10 in a 50 squad.

    =)

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    It's interesting to me how many people don't really get that soulbeast (one or two) can be a pretty decent thing to have on a backline in a squad. If you know what you're doing you can provide a lot of damage from range. All this talk about reflects negating the pewpews?? I run Soulbeast almost exclusively with the fight group I run with. I run it because I know how to use it effectively. Sure I could add to the number of firebrands, scourges, spellbreakers, etc that we have but meh... that gets boring.

    Glass cannon? My soulbeast is built as nasty as a so called zerk but with plenty of health etc to go along with it. One notable bonus of a sniper class like soulbeast is that if you know how to look for spellbreakers, (which I do well), you can take them out pretty fast since they're already trying to survive a lot of other damage.

    Typically my soulbeast starts off with the following before stacks,(which, in a typical night I get in a few seconds into the first fight):

    Power: 2500+
    Crit: 60%+
    Crit damage: 200%+
    Health: 22.7k
    Toughness: 1000+

    Toughness is low and to me that truly doesn't matter much since it doesn't protect against condition damage anyway. I find it's not a factor in pretty much any fights I get into. With stacks and buffs my crit can hit over 100% and power over 3000. I get a LOT of kills in a fight from the back line.

    You can talk all day long about support buffs etc. but it definitely helps if you have some extra nasty fire power coming from behind. ... and again... reflects? Don't make me laugh really... I can honestly say that I can remember maybe once or twice in the last week of constant fights where I actually got bounced back with a reflect. By the time I am raining on the enemy inside our WoD or simply where the main fight is they've wasted their reflects trying to survive the up close and personal fighting.

    I admit that I WILL switch to spellbreaker or firebrand if we are running lean and need a good core for fights. But if we swell into a good size (20 or more) of good fight builds, then I will switch back out to my sniper. Powering down/finishing specific targets like enemy spellbreakers even while they're inside their group is nothing short of fun... and definitely supportive!

    This won't convince the folks that are already anti soulbeast etc but it works for us a huge amount of the time... but as noted above you really have to know what you're doing and do it fairly decently. That's the main reason my commander never complains on my choice of class to run for the night ;)

    The problem with this is the age old question of "but is there another class that does it better?". Of course you can do good on any class if you are a good player, but in this case... for example the mesmer does it better. Why? Because not only can they fulfill the exact same role, they also bypass reflects, does more AoE at range, has several skills that zergs can use and directly counter the ranger at its own game due to good reflects (seen careless zerker rangers kill themselves) plus the ability to quickly get up their face.

    I dont really mind soulbeasts as flankers, I just know they're not really that helpful in combat. Though I suppose one become a little biased when the vast majority of rangers are just plain bad.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Leo.5829Leo.5829 Member ✭✭

    The short version is: don't bring your ranger into WvW at all. There are better Squad alternatives that do better everything (dps, reliably hitting anything, healing, boons, condi clear...) and there are better roaming alternatives that have more stealth, more burst, more everything (specially Mesmer and Thief).
    Pains me to say that as a Ranger Main.

  • Victory.2879Victory.2879 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm currently maining Ranger in wvw (when I'm online, which isn't often). Stance build with sharing, fairly tanky and know how to position and when to be in the push, etc and when to split off and cap side objectives or pester scourges into turning tail.

    The objective is not always to kill the enemy- it's to stop them producing damage/turning them/distracting several/crippling or provide last gasp support when required.

    I'm going to agree with most posters- unless played WELL, almost anything else is better to bring. However, if you get a few decent players on it you can make a difference when facing the typical scourge heavy enemy blob.

  • @Leo.5829 said:
    The short version is: don't bring your ranger into WvW at all. There are better Squad alternatives that do better everything (dps, reliably hitting anything, healing, boons, condi clear...) and there are better roaming alternatives that have more stealth, more burst, more everything (specially Mesmer and Thief).
    Pains me to say that as a Ranger Main.

    I disagree. I roam as a ranger main and have been for years through thick and thin. Atm have a SB roaming build that is very competitive vs most other roaming builds and if I cant beat them I can out run, change up utilities and re-engage, or follow and wait for favourable scenerios to pan out. ranger has many unblockables, cc, stab, might stacking etc. You run a SB you dont need a squad. I love picking off the slowbis and reinforcements they try and boost enemy numbers. Killing one or two people in of thier zerg is fun when thier server pop are all to busy stacking on commander and too scared to move from the blob.

    Sb is the best of anything? No, for each thing there is better classes, but if you use all of the tools of sb properly, you dont need to be the best at one thing lol

    I also believe SB is a big learning curve, there is always a lot more going on behind the pew pew. the pew pew is only one dimension of the class, a cover if you will.

    One more thing, blockers and reflect class rely too much on blocks, stealthers rely to much on stealth, SB can easily to be made to counter these crutches.

    Back on topic, SB can make a huge difference working on the flanks.

  • Reflex.5286Reflex.5286 Member ✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    You either suck at Ranger and they are letting you down lightly or you are in an inexperienced group.

    Our main group runs 2 soulbeasts and offer some of the highest hitting frontline damage in the game.
    10 Stacks of stability granted to group on push.
    Fury.
    Swiftness
    Regen.

    Resistance and condi cleanse to group (if you pet manage properly)

    While none of this will be as good as firebrand support. You are able to take care of yourself as well as push super backline and 2 shot anyone wearing Berserker gear or scourges.

    People need to realize the Power meta never went away, People just found easier things to play. Be a good ranger, don't rely so heavily on your longbow for group fights and prove your worth. If your groups can't see your value then you need to find a new group.

    But of course you could just suck.

    Bad rangers stay super backline and plink away for maybe 9-10k damage.

    Good rangers are in the front dropping 30-40k combos on anyone unlucky enough to get caught. And bad rangers who want to lean on their longbow for mediocre damage.

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because other things occupy a similar role and do more for the squad with less effort.

  • Balthazzarr.1349Balthazzarr.1349 Member ✭✭✭

    @Israel.7056 said:
    Because other things occupy a similar role and do more for the squad with less effort.

    True.... but as long as we have the numbers and variety we need I will slip my sb in there! 😉

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    Because people only want the best. It is nothing personal.
    You can only have that many people in WvW, you can only have that many people in squad.

    Just compare what soulbeast can do and what other classes can do in WvW zerg, the result is obvious.

    It is really simple math.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • I think this is a key point that might get lost in the verbiage above:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Without holding their attacks back until unblockables are around, a few soulbeasts can wipe your own frontline easily. For a lot of commanders, the risk isn't worth taking.

    Every time I pop up e.g. a mesmer reflect, I get tons of numbers. Even if I continuum split two in a row, it doesn't stop projectile-happy players from happily projecting projectiles. (The only exception I've seen is up against known GvG-savvy groups, but that's moot for the OP's situation.)

    In other words, there is an actual risk, so we can imagine why a commander might not want to wait for the first wipe to see if the rangers in the squad did or did not contribute to projectile-hate-related friendly fire.

    So sure, there's a prejudice against Rangers and sure, like nearly all biases, it stems in part from misunderstandings and extrapolating behavior of all rangers from the example of the worst ones. Regardless, I hope ranger fans can see how a typical Pugmander can't depend on random rangers remembering re: reflects.

    (Of course, there are all sorts of ways that PUGlings can screw up a fight, so this arguably might not be the most effective response.)

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Soulbeast isn't that bad actually, a lot of players just don't want to bother with it because ranger has always been a burden to the Zerg. Sure, it's not an ideal class, blabla, but it can be put to use (especially since there's always those times when no one seems to be willing to play firebrand and the squad consists of backline only). Also, it's probably easier to convince those players who never play anything other than ranger to adept their build than it is to finally make them switch class, so maybe we should just start handing them useful soulbeast builds instead.

  • Rampage.7145Rampage.7145 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    A very good soulbeasts can do a ton of impact on a fight, but generally speaking 99.9999% of ranger players in this game are idiots who don't know how to play, so giving this nobody take on those odds and invite you to a squad when they can invite some random guardian/scourge that even played by a kitten will do an ok job inside a party/squad, you can try to apply for a WvW guild tho, i am sure some guilds will welcome a good pin sniper i mean soulbeast to their ranks,ranger is a very niche class so if all u wanna do is play with mainstream groups, pugs and whatnot u are better of playing a mainstream class aka guardian/necro.

    VR Driver
    Salty beavers top guild 2 years in a row back to back, the double champs
    https://saltybeavers.com/

  • Rangers in particular should never really be with the zerg. They are great at picking out low targets, and the other zergs backliners, this means you won't be near the group, so even if you shared stances, you wouldn't be in range to do so. A good ranger targets backline weavers and scourges. Scourge gets wrecked by rangers, as they have no reflects, and only 1 projectile hate skill that, IMO, is just bad to run. You give up either a stun break, an AOE boonstrip, or a well, all of which are much better options than corrosive poison cloud.

  • Majirah.5089Majirah.5089 Member ✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

    • they don’t bring support
    • Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
    • They don’t do damage
    • They are dead weight

    But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

    Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)
    Aren’t the shared stances useful?
    Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

    I have tried all the classes in wvw. My favorite one to play by far is power soulbeast. I don’t have a static group that I do wvw with and so I just join the commanders on the map. I must either just always join super laidback commanders or I hold my own because I haven’t ever been booted from a squad using soulbeast.

    I do focus on damage and usually stick to the front until the enemy Zerg gets to close and then I stick to the back or sides. If I see that there is an enemy group smaller than my party group nearest me I will go in with greatsword to burst people down.

    Sometimes I die sometimes I don’t. It probably isn’t the best build or play style, but it is super fun. I’ve downed multiple people at once with piercing rapid fire, or maul, or wordly impact. I definitely kill more enemies than I die. I tend to burst down scourges, revs, and eles the most.

    You can always run alongside a Zerg even if you can join them if you want. Maybe I’ve just been lucky that I haven’t been booted, but I feel like I contribute.

    I think you should play what you enjoy even if it isn’t the best build. That’s why I play power soulbeast in both wvw and pvp. It’s what I enjoy and I feel like I hold my own on it. Not that I wouldn’t mind soulbeast buffs ;)

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Glass Stance-Share Longbow is pretty wild. I've considered switching to it from hammer rev.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The best use for soulbeast seems to be standing on the wall at QL and bursting down solos that run by to flip Dane.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    I have seen some amazing thiefs that do a great job , even in zerg fights.
    I cant say the same from Ranger Players.

    thief is kitten amazing in zerg play but no1 gives a rats kitten about you if u made a little mistake to res you after fight is over because just a thief dead on floor.
    i mean i have become such a selfish kitten thief towards my own people.

    tho i do play Soulbeast aswell and by no means im any good at it cus i simply dont put time in class to learn it proper, but SB is actually pretty good at doing same job as thief even tho if u just use LB then in no way u gonna be near a thief.
    then again get 2/3 Soulbeast longbow pew pew rangers and they will wreck into backline pretty hard from safe distance if they do assist each other.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    @Majirah.5089 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

    • they don’t bring support
    • Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
    • They don’t do damage
    • They are dead weight

    But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

    Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)
    Aren’t the shared stances useful?
    Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

    I have tried all the classes in wvw. My favorite one to play by far is power soulbeast. I don’t have a static group that I do wvw with and so I just join the commanders on the map. I must either just always join super laidback commanders or I hold my own because I haven’t ever been booted from a squad using soulbeast.

    I do focus on damage and usually stick to the front until the enemy Zerg gets to close and then I stick to the back or sides. If I see that there is an enemy group smaller than my party group nearest me I will go in with greatsword to burst people down.

    Sometimes I die sometimes I don’t. It probably isn’t the best build or play style, but it is super fun. I’ve downed multiple people at once with piercing rapid fire, or maul, or wordly impact. I definitely kill more enemies than I die. I tend to burst down scourges, revs, and eles the most.

    You can always run alongside a Zerg even if you can join them if you want. Maybe I’ve just been lucky that I haven’t been booted, but I feel like I contribute.

    I think you should play what you enjoy even if it isn’t the best build. That’s why I play power soulbeast in both wvw and pvp. It’s what I enjoy and I feel like I hold my own on it. Not that I wouldn’t mind soulbeast buffs ;)

    but you need to be behind the enemy blob.

    like this!
    your server ( 900 range [ enemy server ] (your server thiefs wrecking in backline and SB doing it from save distance

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    A longbow soulbeast kept harassing our tag.
    It not only ruffled the tag's feathers but threw off the whole group's rotation because the tag had to play more defensive and roll heals more often than he otherwise would have.
    While the soulbeast's damage wasn't enough to down our tag through the overpowered sustain firebrands have, it did cause us to be slower to the punch when pushing and responding to enemy pushes.

    Rangers can be unsung heroes, even in group scenarios.

    That said, I main ranger but almost always show up to wvw with a scourge these days. No ranger build will ever be as effective at contributing to a large wvw fight as their GWEN counterparts.

    edit- Not to mention how much more rewarding necro is over ranger in the loot department, for a fraction of the effort.

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    SB is fine for sniping necros and other squishy targets, just not as aoe centric as some of the other dps.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    When in nsp we dont have scourges and every is a ranger , soulbeast or something with no aoe....> @Dralor.3701 said:

    SB is fine for sniping necros and other squishy targets, just not as aoe centric as some of the other dps.

    and snipe anything else since unblockables will bypass blocks, reflects and absortion domes :P

    Got a wall of relfection in the way? who cares? lol....

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    I just mean sb needs to be picking targets a lot more than a class like necro spamming the screen.

    Also have to understand how to use cds properly to min/max damage while unblockable.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    I just mean sb needs to be picking targets a lot more than a class like necro spamming the screen.

    Also have to understand how to use cds properly to min/max damage while unblockable.

    spike zones with barrage, get several zerkers and get the traits foruptime unblocables, u guys dont need even to be in the squad u guys could be a group of mobile arrow carters xD, play clever, get some awereness, positioning.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2018

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    When in nsp we dont have scourges and every is a ranger , soulbeast or something with no aoe

    Can confirm. Was farming nsp in blue air keep last night and someone pointed out that they're basically a "kitten version of the mag cloud", what, with mesmers, rangers, thieves and the like running around being on the whole ineffective.

    edit- but annoying.

    ~ Kovu`

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2018

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    When in nsp we dont have scourges and every is a ranger , soulbeast or something with no aoe

    Can confirm. Was farming nsp in blue air keep last night and someone pointed out that they're basically a "kitten version of the mag cloud", what, with mesmers, rangers, thieves and the like running around being on the whole ineffective.

    edit- but annoying.

    ~ Kovu`

    ohoh im figthign against u :), yeah i dont like some of the setups ive seen on my side to tell u the truth since they were probably not using the unbloacble aoegameplay that SB can have... >_>, still at least it is impossible for us to to have those 30/30 scourge fb's blobs...

    It could be worse and u know it :P, for some reason on the last match we had queue and like 3 scourge and 1 fb... every one was basicly rangers, thiefs, even mesmers was a issue to find for veils and portal. :\ i guess we arenot a scourge fb super heavy server... stil things can change, we just know this population is... temporary.

    Edit(having population once in a while feels diferent lol, usually we tend to be on the lowest side of coverage and something populatin spike as well is low)

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2018

    @Shagaliscious.6281 said:
    even if you shared stances, you wouldn't be in range to do so.

    This is the real reason most rangers get booted. Buff ranges are small, LB range is great. No reason to have a person 1500 range away in a group they'll never benefit. Druids in particular were annoying to me, all that healing potential but 99 of 100 are a mile away doing staff 1's till all their allies are dead.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Uon.7491Uon.7491 Member ✭✭

    Are there any Ranger-only Guilds? That would be fun. Soulbeasts for DPS, Druids for heals, and core Rangers for conditions. Then we can kick everybody else from the squad. Mwahahaha!

    Though seriously, play what you enjoy. WvW is team game, but it's still on your time and should never be a chore. It does feels bad to be left out, but you can still follow a squad while outside of it.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2018

    It's funny when we hear things like "they don't bring support" when the very support then bring is single-handedly wipe the scourge out of the enemy zerg. You know that class.. the one people whine and moan about. Yes a ranger can bring solace to that thorn in your side.

    But of course when you hear people like you did OP on discord, whether it's your guild leader/commander/squad speak the way they do about them.. those very players are the problems. The ones unwilling to adapt, the whiners, the moaners, the complainers, and the reason every class gets nerfed into the ground (including their own).

    Can't begin to count the number of times our group was half the size of the enemy, but the enemy inevitably runs when all their scourge are dead. Yes.. ranger quite the useless class.. lol

    I've said this before, I can't 1v1 to save my life, so what's the problem here? Why do I have no problem killing all the scourge in the enemy zerg? Is it because I'm just that good or is it because the melee and the complainers are just that bad that they chronically die to Scourge?

  • Getting pin snipe? Veil.

    Guild wars 3 when?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2018

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    I've said this before, I can't 1v1 to save my life, so what's the problem here?

    I see numerous issues with playing a dps flanker class thats gonna be targetted by enemy flankers yet cant 1v1.

    Being able to operate independantly is pretty much the only reason not to play firebrand or scourge (spellbreaker or rev isnt really needed).

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Rashagar.8349Rashagar.8349 Member ✭✭✭

    Commanders are people, people have biases, and in general are very slow to change their biases, if even capable.
    People tend to selectively reinforce their own biases rather than register the information that challenges them.

    Don't let commanders' squad preferences get you down. Trying to show someone on the internet that their opinion isn't as objective as they believe is not a useful use of your time.

  • Trajan.4953Trajan.4953 Member ✭✭✭

    garbage class is garbage.

  • No One.3716No One.3716 Member ✭✭

    Squads that accept and utilize pugs have to assume the lowest potential skill level possible and as such classes and builds that can be at least occasionally beneficial to the group by randomly mashing buttons are highly encouraged over harder to play and/or less effective classes in general.

  • edited April 18, 2018

    Look, this isn't complicated. If I want to play soulbeast, then I will. If I want to follow a zerg, then I will. If people want to bully me for playing soulbeast, then I will /ignore them. My first day of playing WvW, I ignored obnoxious people who seem to forget GW2 is a game. Soulbeast is the class I recommend for new WvWers to start with... why because they can see how the groups work while using a relatively simple build to play. Don't complain about low pop servers, and then complain about people playing a specific class.

  • @anduriell.6280 said:
    So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

    • they don’t bring support
    • Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
    • They don’t do damage
    • They are dead weight

    But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

    Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)
    Aren’t the shared stances useful?
    Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

    it's mostly about everybody hating rangers cuz theyve been killed by them and tried to play a ranger and got smoked and now have a hatred for them. a squad should be more worried about numbers then their own petty hurt feelings.

  • @Dralor.3701 said:
    SB is fine for sniping necros and other squishy targets, just not as aoe centric as some of the other dps.

    Doesnt anyone use marksmanship trait line to hit multiple targets with bow?

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Everyone loves their ranger but there are better options for zerging. Also ranger longbow obstructs a lot. Anet could make soulbeasts more popular for wvw with just fixing obstruction on longbow and perhaps letting flying ranger pets attack targets on top of walls. Would be very useful to have 5 ranger bird pets attacking siege on top and behind gates.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

    I play thief/deadeye. By default I run around with supply to drop on anyone who looks like they have a plan and play interception for squads but I don't join squad and I stay out of their range mostly if it looks like they're running tight with stealth, ports, and all that. Sometimes I'll even change map to open up the queue a bit but If the map is on fire and there's a lot of xp and pips to be had then that's on try-hards and Anet to figure something out because I'm going to get mine on the only class I enjoy playing. It's a give and take.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2018

    the combination of builds and vlasses to ensure a win is not a lot.

    fb(support) scourge (support condi wells shades) herald (pain absorb) then your x x damagers.

    when we run, i enforce this setup. when i get it set with atleast 15 in ts and minimum of 25 in squad, we steam roll enemies.

    sadly because not many want to cooperate, players do get farmed, and i do understand. we all play to enjoy.

    but if you want to win. the trinity is the way to go.

    soulbeast has a place those two xx as open. they can focus coms x scourge or eles or revs it'll.about comminicating with your team and com.

    currently at nsp, we have the numbers but players spread like a cloud. that does not work against a coordinated group. when we encountered that against mag, we simply stacked and killed the cloud.

    i dont get why follow a playstyle that does not work. works only for mag.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is no ranger or soulbeast hate. Its just that both suck in zergs, when compared to other classes. A soulbeast will have to be extremely good at his class, to make up for even a mediocre/bad necro in a zerg.

  • Emprer.7256Emprer.7256 Member ✭✭✭

    Soulbeats are pretty self sustainable you can totally function outside of squad without the boons. Some other classes need them more than you do why take it from them. I play soulbeast and it is definitely strong if you build it right and know what you are doing. Just run along the zerg and do your thing. People will notice if you are good.

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