Why aren’t soulbeasts wanted in any squad?

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Brother.1504 said:Everyone loves their ranger but there are better options for zerging. Also ranger longbow obstructs a lot. Anet could make soulbeasts more popular for wvw with just fixing obstruction on longbow and perhaps letting flying ranger pets attack targets on top of walls. Would be very useful to have 5 ranger bird pets attacking siege on top and behind gates.

Interesting idea, maybe they could get birds to hit like Scourge torch 5, hitting people anywhere on the top of the wall and not requiring los for behind gates and walls.

[Sylosi.6503]

Set up group with 3 more soulbeasts, play glass longbow, take all the unblockable stuff, focus enemy comm, enjoy the tears (especially the hypocritical ones from your blob), also fun when not focusing comm to obliterate scourges (again enjoy those tears).

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Song of Eternity.8613 said:Look, this isn't complicated. If I want to play soulbeast, then I will. If I want to follow a zerg, then I will. If people want to bully me for playing soulbeast, then I will /ignore them. My first day of playing WvW, I ignored obnoxious people who seem to forget GW2 is a game. Soulbeast is the class I recommend for new WvWers to start with... why because they can see how the groups work while using a relatively simple build to play. Don't complain about low pop servers, and then complain about people playing a specific class.

This is incredibly narrow-minded and extremely bad advice.

Running with rangers is different than running with nearly every other class because of projectile reflection. The commanders, like you, are also people, too. They're spending their time and money (siege/food) to lead other people who otherwise probably won't even stay to play the format without a blob/tag. If you're trying to be welcoming to pugs or recruit for a guild as a commander, you need to win fights and take objectives. Ranger in particular due to longbow is capable of nullifying the game experience of other people, and disrespecting that is extremely inconsiderate since that affects way more people than just yourself.

If you want to play a ranger in a zerg, work it out in advance. Join a guild or teamspeak and explain why it can work and why you'll specifically make it not be a problem. Be a team player. Most commanders aren't dumb and notice when less-than-ideal classes are doing impressive stuff. I've been given attention from some big-name commanders as a solo player for my efforts in ZvZ on thief and have sub-tagged their hit squads and periphery groups on occasion in the past. Ranger is a a strong class. It does not need to be played intelligently in PvE. It needs to be played very intelligently in WvW group play or else it'll ruin the fun of many other people.

If you want to recommend a WvW class to new people for zerging, recommend Spellbreaker or necro because they're easier to play effectively and don't carry as much risk to everyone else.

[ugrakarma.9416]

if u are really good, u are losing nothing being outside a squad. the cry to be in a squad is just a desire to be carried with a minimal effort or contribuition.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Trajan.4953 said:garbage class is garbage.

Anything less than scourge atm is garbage xD, WvW is just stack aoe and easyer the spam is the better. :D

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

[snh.7091]

Rangers are viable. People just haven't thought out of the box on how to make good use of them. The vast majority only focuses on META and classes that dominate and they do dominate for many reasons, but that doesn't change the fact that having a few properly trained and equipped rangers won't be useless. You'd be surprised how painful they can be if used right.

If you main a ranger and someone neglects you don't worry ;) It's only to their disadvantage. Every class can be viable if geared and traited right. ANet made this possible with some changes.

[Voltekka.2375]

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

[Coelho Nat.4697]

I run soulbeast from time to time in wvw.Sometimes a commander asks if someone could switch the class in cases where there are to many backlines. However, I have also seen commanders asking for ranged support (rangers/herald). A well positionated ranger gets down necros and eles very easily.

[Rashagar.8349]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

Thing is, if the player knows ranger best, then other classes are not necessarily more efficient for them.

*editMight have gotten confused as to which discussion this was so I apologise if the above is off topic. Can't figure out withiut reading the whole thread again heh.Basically what I was getting at is you optimise around your own knowledge/limitations, not around some theoretical "optimal" state.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Emprer.7256 said:Soulbeats are pretty self sustainable you can totally function outside of squad without the boons. Some other classes need them more than you do why take it from them. I play soulbeast and it is definitely strong if you build it right and know what you are doing. Just run along the zerg and do your thing. People will notice if you are good.This.

Soulbeast works excellently as something running off to the side of the zerg, focusing high-value targets (staff weavers, scourges, hammer revs) when the zerg pushes.

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

Yes, well as true as that may be... and I do play other classes, Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Scourge... but I play Soulbeast the best. I survive better and kill more with soulbeast. So although I might not be supporting the team with heals etc I'm at least taking enemy targets down.. and not just one at a time. Eles and Scourges may or may not dominate as far as dps goes.. but they still die plenty well when I hit them. There's enough other stuff on them already that makes them nice and soft for me. And since I'm range, like I said, I kill a lot of enemy. I have as many bags as you can possibly have and start out a night pretty empty... have to keep them cleaned constantly after running for a bit.

Over all the other classes are obviously best in a squad.... but if you have me and my Soulbeast in a squad you won't hear complaints from a commander. At least it's been so long since I've been asked to leave any squad that I must be doing something useful.

[Voltekka.2375]

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

Yes, well as true as that may be... and I do play other classes, Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Scourge... but I play Soulbeast the best. I survive better and kill more with soulbeast. So although I might not be supporting the team with heals etc I'm at least taking enemy targets down.. and not just one at a time. Eles and Scourges may or may not dominate as far as dps goes.. but they still die plenty well when I hit them. There's enough other stuff on them already that makes them nice and soft for me. And since I'm range, like I said, I kill a lot of enemy. I have as many bags as you can possibly have and start out a night pretty empty... have to keep them cleaned constantly after running for a bit.

Over all the other classes are obviously best in a squad.... but if you have me and my Soulbeast in a squad you won't hear complaints from a commander. At least it's been so long since I've been asked to leave any squad that I must be doing something useful.

Sorry to be blunt, but neither lootbags or the fact that you are ranged count for much. If anything, to actually be useful for the squad as a soulbeast, frontliner, you would have to play stanceshare (which you dont cause you like to camp on longbow-btw, soulbeast can use other weapons as well to be more useful). The only reason to play soulbeast is because a player just loves the ranger class and cant play anything else in a zerg. Sure, you may pick off some Weaver or scourge who stayed behind. Or knockback the enemy comm to be annoying. But thats it. This meta (and all previous metas, hell, soulbeast is not even in non meta) and the current wvw class structure would only accept a soulbeast in a squad if the squad isnt full, or if the squad roflstomps the enemy zerg. Soulbeast just doesnt cut it. A bad/mediocre necro will do probably more of a difference than a good or great soulbeast. But then again, how many mediocre necros are out there and how many great soulbeasts?

[Kovu.7560]

@Voltekka.2375 said:soulbeast can use other weapons as well to be more useful).

They really can't. Most other ranger weapons are mediocre and they're all garbage in the context of frontline wvw.What're you going to do? Spam sword auto whilst running through an enemy zerg? Spin your offhand axe and hope to get some retaliation damage?Seriously, ranger weapons bring nothing to the frontline. Standing back and trying to harass enemy pick, or straggling necros is the best you can really hope for.

If you want rangers to stop camping longbow, give them other weapons that actually. don't. suck. (In the context of large scale wvw.)

Agreed with the rest of your post, though.

~ Kovu

[CETheLucid.3964]

Soulbeast is more of a roamer than a zerg class. But nothing and nobody can stop you from running with a zerg without being in the squad. You can still tag the enemy zerg and if you're good player, you know to keep to your own zerg and kind of hover in and out of the fight.

Tag for bags with your range AoE, target squishies for immediate downing.

SB's are opportunists and they excel at killing squishies, Scourges in particular. You can make a difference in the zerg fight without actually being in the squad and when they screw off, you can go back to roaming the lands taking camps and killing strays.

Alternatively on the lower pop servers, they really can't afford to be picky and you're likely to get into a squad because they need numbers. Shouldn't be selfish all the time if you have a better class to offer the zerg but I understand the desire to play what you want to play from time to time.

So I wouldn't really worry about it and do what you want to do.

[Dralor.3701]

@EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:SB is fine for sniping necros and other squishy targets, just not as aoe centric as some of the other dps.

Doesnt anyone use marksmanship trait line to hit multiple targets with bow?

Have you tried using projectiles in zerg fights? The unblockable portion is really the only useful period unless you are hitting the edges of the group.

[Mokk.2397]

Ranger has been my main since day one .Every update I dread expecting some useless update or trait that is made useless.Whether its Core , Druid or Soulbeast it's been like this since the beginning.The Druid was suppose to be a solution to the lack of support in a group. But ended up being a fail because the target areas are to small to be of any benefit along with the healing nerf made things worse.The damage is really sad .Even the group damage benefit is a joke .So really the only benefit of Druid is the mobility .Even celestial is weak for a group. Soulbeast was suppose to make Rangers more front line.Why would anyone make a medium armor class a front line?Not to mention being slower than ditch water without wasting a slot with Signet of the Hunt. Traits are spread to thin with redundancies like Stoneform and Clarion Bond when a simple fix to the signets would of been of more benefit .Useless traits like Lingering Magic,Nature's Vengeance.Extra concentration would makes sense if boons were better shared with allies .Spirits need mobility for Nature's Vengeance to be worth while.Specifically in WvW .Off hand axe Path of Scars ground targeting is useless ,bring back the original .Whirling Defense needs movement to be viable.Many pets need more speed .To many pets with identical attacks .To few that benefit the group.The list goes on and on and gets worse with every expansion.ANET needs to stop listening to the haters and start listening to the people that play the class on a regular basis .Many issues can be solved very easy .But as it stands now Ranger is the all around weakest class in the game.This is why long bow is used so much ,It's basically all we have.I don't want to be over powered but a level playing field would be nice after nearly six years being the underdog.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Kovu.7560 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:soulbeast can use

other weapons

as well to be more useful).

They really can't. Most other ranger weapons are mediocre and they're

all

garbage in the context of frontline wvw.What're you going to do? Spam sword auto whilst running through an enemy zerg? Spin your offhand axe and hope to get some retaliation damage?Seriously, ranger weapons bring nothing to the frontline. Standing back and trying to harass enemy pick, or straggling necros is the best you can really hope for.

If you want rangers to stop camping longbow, give them other weapons that actually. don't. suck. (In the context of large scale wvw.)

Agreed with the rest of your post, though.

~ Kovu

Yeah the problem here is useful for what in comparison to other classes. Everyone bring better melee/short range AoE than the ranger and they are on classes that support zerg. Its a no brainer.

At least the longbow is unique in its advantages that give it some minor tiny bit purpose in the zerg. I dont particularly like the ranger but I'll still give the longbow that much (still think the mesmer is the better zerg flanker due to mobility and being a major group threat that force the enemy zerg to manouver, not to mention the danger close stomping capability).

It can reach out to peeps others cant which is good against freecasters and I've even been usefull in taking out arrowcarts where even meteor storm dont reach. The same ranger with melee "because the zerg demands it" would have been useless. Not really sure why that would be wanted for the ranger.

Sidenote: unlike above though, I think claiming its the "all round weakest class in the game" is ridiculous. It can definetly be strong in the right hands.

[Seteruss.4058]

@Sylosi.6503 said:Set up group with 3 more soulbeasts, play glass longbow, take all the unblockable stuff, focus enemy comm, enjoy the tears (especially the hypocritical ones from your blob), also fun when not focusing comm to obliterate scourges (again enjoy those tears).

Doesn't matter.I was with my slb the other day back line skirmishing and sniping necros and guardians with unblockable(both trait and signet for the uptime), and full glass. I mean. I was taking half life or occasionally full hp of the enemies without dieing and when commander ask for swap, while I have a scourge, a guard and a rev, full asc meta builds, I said q time is big(25). I stilled get kicked.Now probably many will said why I was with my ranger. Well... Is my main, is a sniper, is a stance share build and providing some short of resistance and swiftness with owl plus stability and a little bit of condi cleanse with bear and bear stance.Still unwanted. Still don't care.But always whiling to swap as long as q time is affordable.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Seteruss.4058 said:

@"Sylosi.6503" said:Set up group with 3 more soulbeasts, play glass longbow, take all the unblockable stuff, focus enemy comm, enjoy the tears (especially the hypocritical ones from your blob), also fun when not focusing comm to obliterate scourges (again enjoy those tears).

Doesn't matter.I was with my slb the other day back line skirmishing and sniping necros and guardians with unblockable(both trait and signet for the uptime), and full glass. I mean. I was taking half life or occasionally full hp of the enemies without dieing and when commander ask for swap, while I have a scourge, a guard and a rev, full asc meta builds, I said q time is big(25). I stilled get kicked.Now probably many will said why I was with my ranger. Well... Is my main, is a sniper, is a stance share build and providing some short of resistance and swiftness with owl plus stability and a little bit of condi cleanse with bear and bear stance.Still unwanted. Still don't care.But always whiling to swap as long as q time is affordable.

Well if you are doing "backline skirmishing" you dont need the squad, do you?

In fact you could probably have tagged up, get 5-10 focus randoms on you and made your main zerg feel big and stronk cause squishing an enemy zerg is twice as easy when its sandwiched.

[zinkz.7045]

@Dawdler.8521 said:and they are on classes that support zerg.

To be fair people can build soulbeast to add support (stab, immunity to soft cc, heal, stun break, protection, fury, etc), problem is firebrand powercreeped support so much, that unless something adds something firebrand can't, then it is just subpar to firebrand.

[Dawdler.8521]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:and they are on classes that support zerg.

To be fair people can build soulbeast to add support (stab, immunity to soft cc, heal, stun break, protection, fury, etc), problem is firebrand powercreeped support so much, that unless something adds something firebrand can't, then it is just subpar to firebrand.

Which was the point.

[zinkz.7045]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:and they are on classes that support zerg.

To be fair people can build soulbeast to add support (stab, immunity to soft cc, heal, stun break, protection, fury, etc), problem is firebrand powercreeped support so much, that unless something adds something firebrand can't, then it is just subpar to firebrand.

Which was the point.

Then maybe write the point rather than something that says something different...

[Dawdler.8521]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:and they are on classes that support zerg.

To be fair people can build soulbeast to add support (stab, immunity to soft cc, heal, stun break, protection, fury, etc), problem is firebrand powercreeped support so much, that unless something adds something firebrand can't, then it is just subpar to firebrand.

Which was the point.

Then maybe write the point rather than something that says something different..."Yeah the problem here is useful for what in comparison to other classes. Everyone bring better melee/short range AoE than the ranger and they are on classes that support zerg. Its a no brainer." = other classes (such as the obvious guard or necro) are better than ranger for this purpose. Maybe I just wasnt clear enough. Sorry.

What I continued on was that ranger has a purpose not to build for support because it does have one unique weapon. Thats why it doesnt really matter what you can build anyway. I would argue the exact same thing for the mesmer in an open pug zerg. You can build a minstrel chronotank and support the zerg, but you are better off just bringing another firebrand then and you loose pretty much the only thing that makes the mesmer strong/dangerous in a zerg setting, ranged greatsword bursts.

[Aeolus.3615]

Why having soulbeat IF some certain classes stacked reduce the risk of being a low skill player putting group in trouble, and reduces the effort? while u only need to stack and be a good ant on the zerg???

./ThinhatfoilONThink about it, Anet is enforcing broken aoe gameplay, next aoe classes will be strong than scourge wich will result in more broken passives that wull take probably 1year to years to balance them out or kill the passives to enforce more easy resulting on pk and giving placebos pk to the players../ThinhatfoilOFF

Scourge will always be a class to help lamers and bad players playing in zerg, it needs to be broken by default, reason they nerfed it on 1vs1 to have the excuse of being a broken class that is not hard to use 3rd party tools to improve the AOE brokeness.

EDIT: guys run a group independent from the main zerg, and behind it, with a party of full unblockable soulbeast build, those warrior than bubble banzai it wont last much longer.