I like Revenant, but I greatly dislike Energy mechanics

Revenant CAN be pretty fun to play, and I feel there are a lot of neat skills and builds for this profession, but I am not a fan of how the Energy mechanics have been implemented across the board... But why? Because combat was designed to be fast paced, where skill choices and seconds matter, yet the Energy mechanic can put limitations on, or remove entirely, a player's ability to choose the skill they need in the heat of the moment. This may not be as impactful in pve, however, it's highly noticeable, and sometimes detrimental in wvw or spvp…

I feel like the Energy mechanics have more of a place, and make most sense, on SLOT SKILLS ONLY, NOT WEAPONS, for https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Centaur_Stance and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Dragon_Stance by design.... but that's it. And I feel that if you were to remove the Energy consumption costs across the board for all weapons AND all other legendary stances, this profession would feel and play better overall in modes like wvw and spvp... I understand that additional changes would need to be made for "balance" reasons, and a reevaluation of skill cooldown timers and durations, but I feel these adjustments would make some huge positive changes for this profession in the end.

Changes like the above would allow players on Revenant to focus on combat better, and the fun action happening on the screen, not micromanaging Energy while getting blasted for thousands of incoming damage and hoping you have enough Energy resources to react, counter play or attack...

Please review this area and make some fun and healthy balance changes.

Edit- I feel that adding in the “Ammo” design on a bunch of slot skills would go well with the Energy resource mechanics changes I suggested.

And in turn weapon skills would be heavily nerfed and get higher cooldowns.

The energy system is what draws me to this class...its not perfect yet.. but its what makes this class this class..

However, what i dislike is the fact that there are still cooldowns on the weapons..I would like to see them removed..

On top of that, some addaptions are in place...I am wishing for a more builder spender system, so you can stay in the same legend if you opt to..-every mob you hit generates 1 extra energy on top of the 5/seccomd-switching legends, gives you 50 extra energy..

• out of combat you either gain or loose 5 energy/sec untill you are at 50.
• Traits that allow for gaining more energy..

But at base the energy system is what makes thisclass, please never take it away from the class

@lordbachus.6091 said:The energy system is what draws me to this class...its not perfect yet.. but its what makes this class this class..

However, what i dislike is the fact that there are still cooldowns on the weapons..I would like to see them removed..

On top of that, some addaptions are in place...I am wishing for a more builder spender system, so you can stay in the same legend if you opt to..-every mob you hit generates 1 extra energy on top of the 5/seccomd-switching legends, gives you 50 extra energy..

• out of combat you either gain or loose 5 energy/sec untill you are at 50.
• Traits that allow for gaining more energy..

But at base the energy system is what makes thisclass, please never take it away from the class

Yes no cooldown on unrelenting assault sounds like a fantastic idea /s

@op no. Just no. It’s alright for there to be classes that are more difficult to use/learn or have more difficult mechanics. Changes like the ones you’re proposing would also have to come with a fair amount of general changes and nerfs to compensate, which is something I DON’T want for the class as it’s in a pretty solid spot overall now.

Also there is no requirement to like a class or it’s mechanics. I like guardian’s theme but generally don’t like its mechanics. You don’t see me begging on the forums for the systems team to change Guardian to fit all my design wishes, do you?

Managing energy and balancing between using energy for offensive and defensive purposes are what make the Revenant class, it IS what playing Rev is about.

If you get caught by a hard hitting skill without block, dodges, evades or other tools to avoid damage, you likely got outplayed by the opponent, who knows how to bait you. Kiting is a part of GW2, you gotta learn it and not dive into your opponent, use all the energy to deal damage and complain when there’s no energy left to defend the counter pressure.

In sPvP and WvW, Rev (specifically Power Herald, not Renegade) is in a decent spot right now (or at most a bit weak defensively, especially in sPvP when your gear can’t make up for it like in WvW). I believe many people don’t want any drastic changes to the energy system, which is the core of this class.

@"lordbachus.6091" said:But at base the energy system is what makes thisclass, please never take it away from the class

That's akin me saying "But the Astral Force is what makes playing a druid healer a healer"... Resources do not define the profession or profession build, they are just resources. What really makes up any classes are the types of weapon skills, slot skills and traits they can use and access... which happen to be unique across professions... You could give this profession Thief Initiative resource mechanics and you'd still have 2 completely different professions.

Energy is what allows Rev weapons to have lower cooldowns than other weapons. It's a compromise we must accept for balance.

While I wouldn't say the energy system is perfect, I do really like it. On a related note, do you all think it would incentivize people to take the Salvation line if it was given a trait that adds increased energy regeneration while you have Alacrity (perhaps give tablet Alacrity baseline and put this trait as the minor GM)? Still a niche usage because you'd have to take Salvation to take advantage of it and use an Alacrity-granting skill to use it, but it could be interesting and could potentially provide incentive to use Renegade for Orders from Above.

@Blocki.4931 said:And in turn weapon skills would be heavily nerfed and get higher cooldowns.

Why would Weapon skills need to be nerfed. We acting like Rev weapon skills are that much different from any other classes weapon skills that already don't have energy cost. They have Cooldowns like any other classes' weapon skills..

I just want more mechanics in the game for regeneration of energy to the stock energy system.Maybe add energy Regen on Weapon Swap like they do legend spaw. Or energy on auto attack/taking damage.Maybe even give each legend their own unique way to generate additional energy.Example:Ventari gets energy for every healDwarf gets energy when hit/CCedDemon gets energy when they put a condition and when they are conditionedAssassin gets energy on Auto attackHerald gets energy when they boonRenegade gets energy when standing in their Wells.

@idolin.2831 said:Managing energy and balancing between using energy for offensive and defensive purposes are what make the Revenant class, it IS what playing Rev is about.

If you get caught by a hard hitting skill without block, dodges, evades or other tools to avoid damage, you likely got outplayed by the opponent, who knows how to bait you. Kiting is a part of GW2, you gotta learn it and not dive into your opponent, use all the energy to deal damage and complain when there’s no energy left to defend the counter pressure.

In sPvP and WvW, Rev (specifically Power Herald, not Renegade) is in a decent spot right now (or at most a bit weak defensively, especially in sPvP when your gear can’t make up for it like in WvW). I believe many people don’t want any drastic changes to the energy system, which is the core of this class.

I have to disagree. No way am I taking a Rev over another class in SPvP right now. WvW is a little different.

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:And in turn weapon skills would be heavily nerfed and get higher cooldowns.

Can you imagine warrior with a 12sec recharge shield stance? Whirlwind Attack that knocksback people and is capable of one shot? Guardian shield getting there projectile bubble recharge cut in half AND allowing other actions? Some of the revenant weapon skills are overcharged and short in cool down. That's a fact.

I wish noobs could stop complaining about energy cost on weapons. You're tempting ANET to screw over the rev class just to appease a crowd of people who have no clue what they are talking about.

Revenant has the shortest weapon skill CDs in the game already. If you don't like energy costs, you chose the wrong class.

What are all these strong skills with short cooldowns people are talking about? Is their entire Rev experience just spamming hammer #2 all the time?

@Clownmug.8357 said:What are all these strong skills with short cooldowns people are talking about? Is their entire Rev experience just spamming hammer #2 all the time?

Coalescence of RuinPhase SmashField of the MistsDrop the Hammer

Debilitating SlamWarding RiftRenewing Wave

Unrelenting AssaultDeathstrike

Searing Fissure

Riposting ShadowsPhase TraversalImpossible OddsJade Winds

Pain AbsorbtionUnyielding AnguishBanish Enchantment

Vengeful HammersRite of the Great Dwarf

Protective SolaceNatural HarmonyPurifying EssenceEnergy Expulsion

Orders from AboveDarkrazor's Daring

Most of these skills would have double/20+ second recharge on any other profession or simply be half as potent.

@Clownmug.8357 said:What are all these strong skills with short cooldowns people are talking about? Is their entire Rev experience just spamming hammer #2 all the time?

I'm not an expert but I do agree. Compare swords cooldowns with warrior axes. Not much different!

Not saying we should remove cooldowns through. UA without cooldown is still costly, slow to start and with short range. I think it is overrated as a skill. I would at least lower its cost to 10e.

@Justine.6351 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:What are all these strong skills with short cooldowns people are talking about? Is their entire Rev experience just spamming hammer #2 all the time?

I should specify that I meant weapon skills. Those hammer skills are strong, some swords skills are strong when they're working, and the staff skills seem lackluster to me except for Surging Mists. I can see those skills having 20s or higher cooldown on something like Elementalist, but not on the more favored professions.

Warrior for example, to me it seems like their average weapons cooldown are already on par with Rev. If weapon traits are considered there are probably other professions that are comparable too. Then you have random outliers like Ranger's Maul which is below our lowest cooldown.

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:What are all these strong skills with short cooldowns people are talking about? Is their entire Rev experience just spamming hammer #2 all the time?

I'm fine with the cooldowns actually. I think it's the energy costs on weapon skills that are unnecessary. The utilities with cooldowns shouldn't exist either in my opinion. The whole design of the profession seems like it's muddled by kneejerk balancing.

@Clownmug.8357 said:I'm fine with the cooldowns actually. I think it's the energy costs on weapon skills that are unnecessary. The utilities with cooldowns shouldn't exist either in my opinion. The whole design of the profession seems like it's muddled by kneejerk balancing.

I disagree, I would rather keep actual energy costs and remove or seriously lower cooldowns. It's not right to have both !Why thieves don't have cooldowns on their weapon skills ???

The point of the energy system is that Rev gets low cooldowns in exchange for being one of the two ( previously 3 ) classes in the game that cannot perform basic gameplay by randomly spamming skills. If you play like a rabid mongoose, the class doesn't work.

This is a good thing. Rather than removing it from rev, similar mechanics should honestly be placed on other classes.

TL;DR energy is fine l2p.

Energy is a good thing for Revenant, keeping its design separate from other classes.

If you run out of energy on the regular or can't manage it properly l2p.

I don't think the people who dislike the energy costs have a problem with managing it, but actually have enough common sense to see most of the current design is garbage.

I think people are very quick to say "L2P" in regards to energy issues, and to a certain extent I agree. That is, after all, a defining feature of the class. However, I would argue this is much more nuanced and complicated when playing a healer. This is where most of my experience lies, and it seems like many people quickly boil rev gameplay down to power glint/shiro herald, which is only one build: by miles the very best performing build in PvP and the one build that completely legitimates the viability (and arguably meta-ness) of the class. When you are playing a dps spec, you can dps regardless of the legend you are in. The legends clearly change the playstyle and perhaps the delivery method of dps-ing, but a bulk of damage comes from the weapons, and since they function independently of legends, it remains fairly constant.

Conversely, when you are healing, the very bulk of healing must come from Ventari. Yes, you have two heal skills from weapons--staff 4 and shield 4--but these do not carry enough impact to bridge this gap while in an alternate legend from Ventari, as the legend has such a distinct and specific playstyle and purpose (not to mention shield 4 is incredibly unreliable). So every time you swap legends, you are essentially locked out of your primary role. It is a very different sort of experience. The other legends do not complement Ventari terribly by any means--they all benefit it in different ways, but each legend has a very linear method of support. Because of this, I would argue that there is greater appeal, benefit, and justification to camping Ventari than there is for other builds. Legend swapping carries a much different kind of impact for a healer than it does for a damage dealer. This is why I have suggested one thing that I believe would have a fairly strong impact on being able to camp Ventari more without breaking it or nullifying the energy system.

• Add a 100% energy cost/upkeep reduction to heal skills onto a minor trait in Salvation

Playing Ventari in any dynamic setting will most likely require you to move your tablet whenever possible. At 5 energy per cast, this would equate to 5 energy per 3 seconds, or an energy reduction of 1.667/s, meaning you are regenerating energy at 3.33/s, ~66% the rate of other legends (assuming no upkeep and no energy usage for other skills). You could argue that this is justified by Ventari skills being cheaper than other legends', but they are still somewhat costly, and non-healer builds don't suffer quite the same consequences from swapping legends, which is the class' best means of energy management. This change could also be one (small) step to making Salvation more appealing to non-healer builds, which should be one of ANet's goals.

Note: I am speaking from a PvP/WvW perspective, where Kalla isn't a reliable option for healing.

@Clownmug.8357 said:I don't think the people who dislike the energy costs have a problem with managing it, but actually have enough common sense to see most of the current design is garbage.

Well, yeah. There are parts of Rev that need quite a bit work. It's just that none of the work rev needs is really related to energy.

Revs issues are more to do with the fact that every stance except shiro and glint is lacking in some way.

Mallyx: still feels like too much of a glass cannon. Mallyx revs are always an easy kill.Ventari: Blatantly inferior to Firebrand in most all circumstances.Jalis: VH really shouldn't proc retaliation period. Elite cast time is nuts for a defensive skill.Kalla: Worthless in PvP due to poor defensive utility and easily avoidable damage.

Revenant is good right now with its mechanics.

Yeah healer sux. You dont use any of weapons kill cuz your utility drains you for healing. Maybe that is the reason why shield is so strange. You dont use it cuz upkeeps?Overall i like energycost system in PvP.