[Spoilers] About Aurene - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Spoilers] About Aurene

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  • Perhaps the t-shirt that Rubi Bayer, Mike Zadorojny and John Jarynowski are wearing in the Guild Chat on January 11 are a hint what will happen.

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Li Xiaolu.4823 said:
    Perhaps the t-shirt that Rubi Bayer, Mike Zadorojny and John Jarynowski are wearing in the Guild Chat on January 11 are a hint what will happen.

    What shirt were they wearing?

  • Li Xiaolu.4823Li Xiaolu.4823 Member ✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    This shirt:

  • Somehow the end of this chapter reminded me on the End of Mass Effect 3 :(

  • Aodlop.1907Aodlop.1907 Member ✭✭✭

    Bringing her back would be cheap writing.
    Those who want her back are the same who cheered for Jon Snow's resurrection. The worst.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @Kal Spiro.9745 said:
    Out of curiosity, did no one notice that she Branded Kralk? The right side of his face was covered in her blue branding as he was pulling back.

    Yes, as Taimi told us during the mission: "Aurene just branded Kralk to the wall!"

    @Zoid.2568 said:
    Did the branded Caithe even get more powerful or anything useful. I don't think so.

    She wasn't "branded", she tells us so herself. She was "transformed" to melt minds with Aurene.

    OMG, that just gives me the most awful idea: what if dead Aurene will now use Caithe's body to be able to act in the world of the living? As a vessel, so to speak- :o

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Aodlop.1907 said:
    Bringing her back would be cheap writing.
    Those who want her back are the same who cheered for Jon Snow's resurrection. The worst.

    Cheap writing would be letting a character die that you’ve spent years on only to have to create some other resolution out of thin air.

    I don't like either idea: her being dead for good, and her being brought back to life somehow. I hope we will only interact with her spirit. But am disappointed with the development at the moment at any rate.

    @Li Xiaolu.4823 said:
    This shirt:

    Spoiler!? =)

  • Aodlop.1907Aodlop.1907 Member ✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Aodlop.1907 said:
    Bringing her back would be cheap writing.
    Those who want her back are the same who cheered for Jon Snow's resurrection. The worst.

    Cheap writing would be letting a character die that you’ve spent years on only to have to create some other resolution out of thin air.

    Prophecies are boring. Almighty heroes are boring. I'm glad she died and I hope she won't come back.

  • Kal Spiro.9745Kal Spiro.9745 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Kal Spiro.9745 said:
    Out of curiosity, did no one notice that she Branded Kralk? The right side of his face was covered in her blue branding as he was pulling back.

    Yes, as Taimi told us during the mission: "Aurene just branded Kralk to the wall!"

    No, at the end of the fight Kralk is missing an eye and half his face was blue, that's a bit different that closing up the hole around him so he couldn't get back out... which he ultimately had no difficulty doing anyway

    Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro - Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/NM |Daredevil|Ranger
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  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭

    imho it would be best if she doesn't come back,
    this game has been way to A-typical so far, fight a god? no worries we prevail!
    it was a huge shocker when the good guys finally didn't win, they should keep it like that!

  • Hybarf Tics.2048Hybarf Tics.2048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    I'm certain she didn't die this is the same kind of dream state they did with the Sylvari training when they removed the UI. Your character in episode 6 will simply wake up come back to where she was and find out Aurene is still there alive and well. I refuse to think Anet had her trained get a new gift and transform a Sylvari into a gentle and kind branded to then to simply die. B)

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kal Spiro.9745 said:
    No, at the end of the fight Kralk is missing an eye

    Wonder why... did we poke it too much? ;)

    and half his face was blue, that's a bit different that closing up the hole around him so he couldn't get back out... which he ultimately had no difficulty doing anyway

    Yes, you are right. This must be from Aurene's last attack then before he killed her.

  • @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Aodlop.1907 said:
    Bringing her back would be cheap writing.
    Those who want her back are the same who cheered for Jon Snow's resurrection. The worst.

    Cheap writing would be letting a character die that you’ve spent years on only to have to create some other resolution out of thin air.

    i agree, Can't understand all these guys who love seeing good people getting killed , like gw2 already killed lots of em, Eir stegalkin, Snaff, marjory sister, trahearne, Glint, Vlast, demolitionist tonn, our mentor at battle of claw island, Blish, Wynne, taimi days are numbered, zojja .exe stopped working, even Scarlet Briar, hers a story of tragedy its pretty sad what happened to her, plus tyria is already very damaged, idk how many died since zhaitan and Elona is a warzone with branded and kralka corruption everywhere, palawa joke tyranny, the desolation and balthazar incursion, seriously a borderline apocalyptic world like planet of the apes or the "last of us" and people want more of it?

    I bet they want cersei lannister getting the iron throne and daenerys defeat with all her dragons dying slowly, is the same people who asked and cheered TwD for killing major characters and years later "meh" they don't care since so many died no one gives a * anymore. For that i watch GoT, TwD, Vikings and any TV-MA rated show, this isnt GoT and it shouldn't be just to please a minority who wants an overdose of drama watching disasters, death and people despair, there's not enough "red weddings" for this particular group, if thats Anet future plans welp GW2 rating should change and the name to something more suitable like "world of chaos" or "the end of tyria". So they better bring back our dragon like jon snow resurrection or gandalf the white, if doesn't happen this game gonna be very depressing for a long time.

    i kno im overreacting we dont know what Anet is preparing for us but the way how they ended this last episode indeed gave us "nothing" of hope, at least in GoT when jon died u knew daenerys was around, and melisandre was an option, with LWS4 episode 5 literally there's nothing left, that was tyria last chance against kralka (not counting the "joko's magic theory or cantha coming to rescue us and tengus attacking kralka) like the commander said "i dont know" well we dont know either so yeah that was good writing, we got the same sensation of despair, sadness and no idea about what to do next, my point is, leaving us like that in future episodes? nope no thx, we need a resolution and leaving the "hope" death (so far she was the last hope) with more tragedy ahead is not the gw2 i want

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    @locoporesa.2864 said:
    Can't understand all these guys who love seeing good people getting killed , like gw2 already killed lots of em, Eir stegalkin, Snaff, marjory sister, trahearne, Glint, Vlast, demolitionist tonn, our mentor at battle of claw island, Blish, Wynne, taimi days are numbered, zojja .exe stopped working, even Scarlet Briar, hers a story of tragedy its pretty sad what happened to her, plus tyria is already very damaged, idk how many died since zhaitan and Elona is a warzone with branded and kralka corruption everywhere, palawa joke tyranny, the desolation and balthazar incursion, seriously a borderline apocalyptic world like planet of the apes or the "last of us" and people want more of it?

    You have a valid point there. If it wasn't for the awesome way the finale has been presented, more people would have complained about the decision. It is just to drag the story on further, and it's been too long already. Tyria needs healing and we need a different subject for a main story than ravaging gods and dragons. It doesn't always have to be an "end of the world" scenario to make for good story-telling. On the contrary, often the smaller scale adventures are the more interesting ones (look at GW1's Kilbourn^, Joko, Shiro Tagashi, the Nornbear). And Tyria has so much to offer in terms of culture and history! Make something good of that, spare us the repetitive plots.

    ^) Okay, Kilbourn was a "larger scale" adventure, because he did threaten Tyria's excistence. But he still was no dragon, vital for the balance of the world. ;)

  • Noa.7490Noa.7490 Member ✭✭✭

    Aurene is dead. Dead as a door nail. Simple reason: shock value + unexpected outcome.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    @Noa.7490 said:
    Aurene is dead. Dead as a door nail. Simple reason: shock value + unexpected outcome.

    The more I think about it, the less I believe that, and the prospect doesn't bode well with me. It gives me the same uneasy feeling as the awful two LWS3 final episodes, which I could not take seriously, neither the characters nor the writing: Balthazar and magi-tech? A funny looking Primordus whom we quickly send off to bed? Funny magic balls flighing around that we need to catch in order to put two dogs to sleep? C'mon! (And then we also had to deal with an annoying Livia, whom I remember to act much more maturely in GW1, and all that secrecy over a trifle matter that had no impact on our issues, which was rather laughable once revealed as were the Shining Blade headquarters and the initiation rituals, and the whole Lazarus disguise and pseudo-drama when his real identity was revealed, and a self-absorbed lunatic as the leader of the White Mantle who didn't seem to have the slightest bit of wits and shouldn't have been in the mental position to even lead a group of ants if he wanted to... terrible stuff.)

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Noa.7490 said:
    Aurene is dead. Dead as a door nail. Simple reason: shock value + unexpected outcome.

    I'd have to disagree as well. Character deaths can be used as shock value, and if that is the only case then it's poor writing. However without knowing what the story is in the future, we can't say for sure whether it's just for shock value or not. Depends on the future.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    I would say this about Aurene:

    It is not because Aurene died that her magic is gone. And her magic still lives through Caithe because she absorbed the magic of Palawa Joko imo.
    Caithe might have lost her connection with Aurene but it the end she still became a minion of Aurene.

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:
    I would say this about Aurene:

    It is not because Aurene died that her magic is gone. And her magic still lives through Caithe because she absorbed the magic of Palawa Joko imo.
    Caithe might have lost her connection with Aurene but it the end she still became a minion of Aurene.

    Well when Zhaitan died it didn't mean the undead weren't still infesting ore. All it did was open up a way for others to cleanse the undead or re-purpose them. Same thing with Mordremoth. Minions don't just die if their master dies.

  • Jaunty.6018Jaunty.6018 Member ✭✭✭

    I hope they don't bring her back. It would ruin so much of the emotion. This episode added a sense of boldness and fragility that I haven't felt in awhile in this game, and now I'm actually interested in the writing again. I think if this is the real end for Aurene, we'll see a lot of players appreciating Path of Fire more and playing through the living story content again just to spend some more time with our special little scion.

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jaunty.6018 said:
    I hope they don't bring her back. It would ruin so much of the emotion. This episode added a sense of boldness and fragility that I haven't felt in awhile in this game, and now I'm actually interested in the writing again. I think if this is the real end for Aurene, we'll see a lot of players appreciating Path of Fire more and playing through the living story content again just to spend some more time with our special little scion.

    It will really depend on how they handle the next few episodes. If they immediately bring her back (In my opinion) make it feel like this episode was filler because 'Why kill her if you're just going to bring her back in 3 months?' Character deaths should be used sparingly and if it is used, bringing people back should be even more sparingly. Mostly because you remove the emotional risk of death if characters have obviously perceived plot armor. Again, it really depends on how it's handled. Personally I want her to come back, but I wouldn't mind if it's a year from now so that we truly believe she is dead before bringing her back.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alimar.8760 said:

    @Jaunty.6018 said:
    I hope they don't bring her back. It would ruin so much of the emotion. This episode added a sense of boldness and fragility that I haven't felt in awhile in this game, and now I'm actually interested in the writing again. I think if this is the real end for Aurene, we'll see a lot of players appreciating Path of Fire more and playing through the living story content again just to spend some more time with our special little scion.

    It will really depend on how they handle the next few episodes. If they immediately bring her back (In my opinion) make it feel like this episode was filler because 'Why kill her if you're just going to bring her back in 3 months?' Character deaths should be used sparingly and if it is used, bringing people back should be even more sparingly. Mostly because you remove the emotional risk of death if characters have obviously perceived plot armor. Again, it really depends on how it's handled. Personally I want her to come back, but I wouldn't mind if it's a year from now so that we truly believe she is dead before bringing her back.

    So if she comes back next episode then this episode is somehow deemed a cheesy filler and a waste of time? Why?

    Honestly, with all this constant talk about how bringing her back next episode would be cheesy writing and make this episode pointless, I'd rather them just end living story all together. Obviously everyone is an expert writer, so why even bother trying?

    I mean, who cares if the past three years of raising this baby dragon, forming a bond, defeating countless enemies and episodes upon episodes of priming her for a prophecy is undone, it's her resurrection and the events that happened in one episode that really matters!

    Yeah, it's probably better that they write her out of the plot all together. That way we can find something else to solve all of our problems and with absolutely no story introduction at all! We'll just magically have a solution or start a new quest to find said object that gives us a solution to our problems... that just decided to reveal itself out of nowhere and manage to be left out of years of planning of aforementioned prophecy! Great idea! F that Aurene deus-ex-dragon that solved all of our problems for us! It's so bold and great and grand that they had the courage to write her out of the story because she was a dead end weak plot device anyway! Let's introduce Jojo from a pocket universe in the mists, that has this super awesome staff that you can use to just bind elder dragons to your will! Or, hey, wait, there's another dragon in Cantha everyone forgot about! They're clearly the right dragon to defeat Kralk. Let's just devote one quick season to that dragon though. And hey, it's the second time we've tried this but it should surely work this time right..because we already pulled the "Bold story decision - kill this character even though we've killed countless main characters off already-lever".

    I genuinely want to hear what some of these expert writers think is a good next step for the coming season or the resolution to the current plot. Because any deviation from the "prophecy" that we've been following for the past few years is going to take significantly more explanation, planning, and make far less sense than Aurene simply being not dead due to consuming Joko's magic - and given that Joko's death was a sign within this prophecy, I really don't see why people think that it's so far-fetched to have her remain the resolution. Oh, that's right, because everyone is an excellent writer and has this edgelord desire to see the writers kill off characters to make the story "darker." Because having an estranged son watching his mother get impaled, or a former lover turned monster chase their partner, or a brother's soul being trapped inside of a robot and said robot sacrificing themselves for what could be eternity just to give their brother a mere CHANCE at succeeding isn't dark enough? Or I don't know, Aurene's entire family being killed already anyway.

    It's just ridiculous. Ridiculous that people seem to think there's another direction they can go with the story if Aurene stays dead, or because of Aurene's death, that makes anymore sense or is a better resolution to the current plot that wouldn't take an equal amount of time (years) to be worth our current journey. Your best case if Aurene did die is that she goes to the mists and somehow helps us from there. But then she's serving the exact same role that Glint has served this entire time and what is the point then? To give us visions to guide us somewhere that for some reason Glint, her much older and more knowledgable mother didn't seem to be privy to?

    It's ridiculous that people just assume that Aurene is going to be this be-all end-all solution if she becomes an Elder Dragon and that she had to die just because she's helped us out thus far. When in reality, the reason she's helped us thus far is to lead her to the point that she could become the Elder Dragon - and then she's no longer our sidekick that swoops in and saves us, she has other responsibilities, like using her newfound power to fix the current brand. She won't have time to follow us around everywhere and help us everytime we need it.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alimar.8760 said:

    @flog.3485 said:
    I would say this about Aurene:

    It is not because Aurene died that her magic is gone. And her magic still lives through Caithe because she absorbed the magic of Palawa Joko imo.
    Caithe might have lost her connection with Aurene but it the end she still became a minion of Aurene.

    Well when Zhaitan died it didn't mean the undead weren't still infesting ore. All it did was open up a way for others to cleanse the undead or re-purpose them. Same thing with Mordremoth. Minions don't just die if their master dies.

    True I just wanted to point out that whether Aurene is alive or Caithe being a receptacle of Aurene, we might still be able to balance out magic no matter what.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Alimar.8760 said:

    @Jaunty.6018 said:
    I hope they don't bring her back. It would ruin so much of the emotion. This episode added a sense of boldness and fragility that I haven't felt in awhile in this game, and now I'm actually interested in the writing again. I think if this is the real end for Aurene, we'll see a lot of players appreciating Path of Fire more and playing through the living story content again just to spend some more time with our special little scion.

    It will really depend on how they handle the next few episodes. If they immediately bring her back (In my opinion) make it feel like this episode was filler because 'Why kill her if you're just going to bring her back in 3 months?' Character deaths should be used sparingly and if it is used, bringing people back should be even more sparingly. Mostly because you remove the emotional risk of death if characters have obviously perceived plot armor. Again, it really depends on how it's handled. Personally I want her to come back, but I wouldn't mind if it's a year from now so that we truly believe she is dead before bringing her back.

    So if she comes back next episode then this episode is somehow deemed a cheesy filler and a waste of time? Why?

    Honestly, with all this constant talk about how bringing her back next episode would be cheesy writing and make this episode pointless, I'd rather them just end living story all together. Obviously everyone is an expert writer, so why even bother trying?

    Bringing her back in the very next episode very much cheapens her death in All or Nothing. It would do away with the tension and desperation that the heavy loss hit us with far too quickly.

    In my opinion, the best time to bring her back is Season 5, episode 2 or 3. That gives us a couple episodes to grieve, deal with fallout of the failure, start to scrap together a new plan that nobody believes will work (as key pieces to exploit Kralkatorrik's weakness are now gone), and start toward Asencion ourselves in Season 5 (this seems to be getting hinted at).

    Then, a couple episodes into Season 5, we get some real hope again.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    Bringing her back in the very next episode very much cheapens her death in All or Nothing. It would do away with the tension and desperation that the heavy loss hit us with far too quickly.

    I think it really depends on whether her death was a genuine failure that we have to fix, in which case turning it around so quickly does feel cheap, or whether it was all part of the plan the whole time, in which case there's no point to dragging the return out unnecessarily. e.g., if she knows she has Joko's immortality and getting turned into a pincushion is NBD, then it feels worse and arbitrary to leave us hanging for longer. The 3 month gap is already a long time to wait.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Alimar.8760 said:

    @Jaunty.6018 said:
    I hope they don't bring her back. It would ruin so much of the emotion. This episode added a sense of boldness and fragility that I haven't felt in awhile in this game, and now I'm actually interested in the writing again. I think if this is the real end for Aurene, we'll see a lot of players appreciating Path of Fire more and playing through the living story content again just to spend some more time with our special little scion.

    It will really depend on how they handle the next few episodes. If they immediately bring her back (In my opinion) make it feel like this episode was filler because 'Why kill her if you're just going to bring her back in 3 months?' Character deaths should be used sparingly and if it is used, bringing people back should be even more sparingly. Mostly because you remove the emotional risk of death if characters have obviously perceived plot armor. Again, it really depends on how it's handled. Personally I want her to come back, but I wouldn't mind if it's a year from now so that we truly believe she is dead before bringing her back.

    So if she comes back next episode then this episode is somehow deemed a cheesy filler and a waste of time? Why?

    Honestly, with all this constant talk about how bringing her back next episode would be cheesy writing and make this episode pointless, I'd rather them just end living story all together. Obviously everyone is an expert writer, so why even bother trying?

    Bringing her back in the very next episode very much cheapens her death in All or Nothing. It would do away with the tension and desperation that the heavy loss hit us with far too quickly.

    In my opinion, the best time to bring her back is Season 5, episode 2 or 3. That gives us a couple episodes to grieve, deal with fallout of the failure, start to scrap together a new plan that nobody believes will work (as key pieces to exploit Kralkatorrik's weakness are now gone), and start toward Asencion ourselves in Season 5 (this seems to be getting hinted at).

    Then, a couple episodes into Season 5, we get some real hope again.

    If someone loses their child in the supermarket for 10 minutes and then finds them again it doesn’t cause them to unfeel that 10 minutes they spent worrying about whether their child was coming back. They still learn the valuable lesson of keeping a better eye on their children and gain more appreciation for their child in general. So I still don’t see the logic behind implying her resurrection would negate her death completely.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    Bringing her back in the very next episode very much cheapens her death in All or Nothing. It would do away with the tension and desperation that the heavy loss hit us with far too quickly.

    In my opinion, the best time to bring her back is Season 5, episode 2 or 3. That gives us a couple episodes to grieve, deal with fallout of the failure, start to scrap together a new plan that nobody believes will work (as key pieces to exploit Kralkatorrik's weakness are now gone), and start toward Asencion ourselves in Season 5 (this seems to be getting hinted at).

    Then, a couple episodes into Season 5, we get some real hope again.

    Seeing it the same way. Last eposide of this sesaon is building on that we failed bit, which is setup for the next season. Next season is us recovering and getting Aurene back. That leads us to the next expansion which is Kralk focussed, us keyed up and looking for payback, and finishing the fight with Kralk in the expansion. Classic writing technique, tear them down, give them a reason to go on, letem fight, have sammiches. No they gave us too many paths out already between all the energy absorbtions, ascensions, god/liche devouring and forsight of future events. Plus remember Bath's follower clueing us in that she could feel Bath when she encountered Aurene. Hence those energies weren't just consummed and disposed of, they remain a part of the Aurene. Not to mention the whole passing in and out of the spirit realm. But it was a great ending even if it left some of my guildmates mad. Shows that it was impactful when people get mad at story instances. At least IMO.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/CU/AoC

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    Bringing her back in the very next episode very much cheapens her death in All or Nothing. It would do away with the tension and desperation that the heavy loss hit us with far too quickly.

    In my opinion, the best time to bring her back is Season 5, episode 2 or 3. That gives us a couple episodes to grieve, deal with fallout of the failure, start to scrap together a new plan that nobody believes will work (as key pieces to exploit Kralkatorrik's weakness are now gone), and start toward Asencion ourselves in Season 5 (this seems to be getting hinted at).

    Then, a couple episodes into Season 5, we get some real hope again.

    Seeing it the same way. Last eposide of this sesaon is building on that we failed bit, which is setup for the next season. Next season is us recovering and getting Aurene back. That leads us to the next expansion which is Kralk focussed, us keyed up and looking for payback, and finishing the fight with Kralk in the expansion. Classic writing technique, tear them down, give them a reason to go on, letem fight, have sammiches. No they gave us too many paths out already between all the energy absorbtions, ascensions, god/liche devouring and forsight of future events. Plus remember Bath's follower clueing us in that she could feel Bath when she encountered Aurene. Hence those energies weren't just consummed and disposed of, they remain a part of the Aurene. Not to mention the whole passing in and out of the spirit realm. But it was a great ending even if it left some of my guildmates mad. Shows that it was impactful when people get mad at story instances. At least IMO.

    Oh joy, dragging Kralk out for another living season AND an expansion. Didn’t they say Kralk was being resolved this season? I remember them saying something about Kralk and Joko.

    I really don’t see them dragging Kralk out for a full season AND an expansion. I’d rather him be finished next episode seeing as he’s already on the verge of death anyway. Would be a little anticlimactic to just give him a full season and an expansion to recover from this encounter, especially when the only reason we rushed this attack is because Glint said that Kralk is doing too much damage to the mists. What then during this season and expansion? He just keeps roaming around recovering and devouring the fabric of reality for us to all of a sudden be able to do what we couldn’t do this episode or the next?

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    Oh joy, dragging Kralk out for another living season AND an expansion. Didn’t they say Kralk was being resolved this season? I remember them saying something about Kralk and Joko.

    I really don’t see them dragging Kralk out for a full season AND an expansion. I’d rather him be finished next episode seeing as he’s already on the verge of death anyway. Would be a little anticlimactic to just give him a full season and an expansion to recover from this encounter, especially when the only reason we rushed this attack is because Glint said that Kralk is doing too much damage to the mists. What then during this season and expansion? He just keeps roaming around recovering and devouring the fabric of reality for us to all of a sudden be able to do what we couldn’t do this episode or the next?

    Not saying next season would be about Kralk, would be about us preping and recovering for a fight. Plus Kralk wasn't unscathed by that fight so it could all be about minions he throws at us as we try and regroup as well. You can't just wipe out forces of nature during living stories on a regular basis else where do you go from there. Elder dragons are for expansions, not living story episodes, that's for growth and and the Dragon's champions. IMO.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/CU/AoC

  • @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Oh joy, dragging Kralk out for another living season AND an expansion. Didn’t they say Kralk was being resolved this season? I remember them saying something about Kralk and Joko.

    I really don’t see them dragging Kralk out for a full season AND an expansion. I’d rather him be finished next episode seeing as he’s already on the verge of death anyway. Would be a little anticlimactic to just give him a full season and an expansion to recover from this encounter, especially when the only reason we rushed this attack is because Glint said that Kralk is doing too much damage to the mists. What then during this season and expansion? He just keeps roaming around recovering and devouring the fabric of reality for us to all of a sudden be able to do what we couldn’t do this episode or the next?

    This.

    Oh, by the way, are we out of dragonsblood weapons now? Because without those, we've pretty much lost already, right? So its either ressurection so we can get the factory going again, or you've got some cheap trapdoor in the story.

    Either way, the Kralk bit is getting old. We've still got Jormag, Primordius and seasick-Steve the underwater wonder. Can we move on, please?

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    Not saying next season would be about Kralk, would be about us preping and recovering for a fight. Plus Kralk wasn't unscathed by that fight so it could all be about minions he throws at us as we try and regroup as well. You can't just wipe out forces of nature during living stories on a regular basis else where do you go from there. Elder dragons are for expansions, not living story episodes, that's for growth and and the Dragon's champions. IMO.

    Seems unlikely. Each episode is 3 months of content, and has to do a lot of narrative work. Look at the pace of this one:

    1. Establish that Kraalkatorik has gained new abilities, and the Joko is back on Tyria and has a vendetta against the Commander. Aurene is big and dangerous. Introduce the pirates and larger sunspear organization. Foreshadowing of Ep2.
    2. Introduce the Olmakhan, Blish, and Gorrik. Commander, Inquest, and Joko vie for control of the Scarab Plague. Joko wins.
    3. Fight to prevent Joko from releasing the plague. Joko nommed. (Note that we entirely turned the loss in the previous episode around in one episode, we didn't spend three episodes building an army or whatever).
    4. Sort out the political fallout, introduce the Free Awakened as a faction and humanize the Awakened, and make Kraalkatorik the main threat, and a more powerful and world-threatening threat, by establishing that he can now travel to the Mists and nom on the fabric of reality (denim, in case you were wondering). Establish that all of this is wearing on Aurene both physically and emotionally, culminating in her vision o' Doom. Introduce Zefira. Attach a tracker to Kraalkatorik, Blish's sacrifice, and oh, Taimi is dying. That's a whole lot happening in one episode.
    5. Find Aurene and give her a confidence boost (yep, turned that around from within about two instances). Learn about making Dragonblood Spears. Starting gearing up for a fight against Kraalkatorik. Caithe is a spokesna'vi. Kraalkatorik decides to start the fight early by hitting our weapons facility. We have a Big Idea, turn it into a quick and dirty Plan with some help from Canach, and have the fight. We defeat Kraalkatorik...'s eye. Aurene is dead.

    Basically, played back to back, the plot moves very, very fast (at 3 month intervals, not necessarily so much). The odds that Kraalkatorik is alive after next episode, after having been a threat through both PoF and all of this season, seem pretty slim to me. That's not much time to introduce any fix to the "don't kill more dragons" problem, other than reviving Aurene. They might give it until late in the episode but for all we know she'll back on her feet in instance 1.

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    So if she comes back next episode then this episode is somehow deemed a cheesy filler and a waste of time? Why?

    I think we can all agree that living story episodes play very fast with the story. There's very little time from the beginning of the episode, to the rising action, to the climax and then the falling action. Currently, with Aurene being dead, we have feelings of remorse and mourning. At least that is the way it is intended. But if that is superceded next episode by Aurene being alive and all is well, then people will look back on the previous episode as a betrayal of the emotional energy and time spent. Writing and crafting a story is all about suspension of disbelief.

    We all know that characters have plot armor to an extent, there are plans writers put in place in order to tell a story. The important factor is telling said story in a way that the audience themselves will believe was planned all along, and will make sense given the rules of the universe. Which is why I stated it depends on how it is handled. If Aurene is brought back without any consequences, without any solid reason, without any references to this episode and all the epicness it had. Then it will (For the most part.) be considered lackluster if there is no reason for the audience.

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Honestly, with all this constant talk about how bringing her back next episode would be cheesy writing and make this episode pointless, I'd rather them just end living story all together. Obviously everyone is an expert writer, so why even bother trying?

    Most of this seems sarcastic but I'd like to take time to answer this. For the first part, I said it depends on how it's handled. (See my above statment.)

    As for the second part, are you saying that I can't appreciate, or critique a story if i'm not a writer myself? Is there some line in which I have to cross in order to state my opinion and how I believe a story should be written? For example, do I have to be a composer and published musician to know what music I like and give advice of music prefernces to others? The short answer is no.

    When you deal with a passionate community, people that invest time and effort into understanding the nuances of lore and story that is provided. It is important to have discussions. Stating that sarcastic comment doesn't help the discourse and discussion we're having.

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    I genuinely want to hear what some of these expert writers think is a good next step for the coming season or the resolution to the current plot. Because any deviation from the "prophecy" that we've been following for the past few years is going to take significantly more explanation, planning, and make far less sense than Aurene simply being not dead due to consuming Joko's magic - and given that Joko's death was a sign within this prophecy, I really don't see why people think that it's so far-fetched to have her remain the resolution. Oh, that's right, because everyone is an excellent writer and has this edgelord desire to see the writers kill off characters to make the story "darker." Because having an estranged son watching his mother get impaled, or a former lover turned monster chase their partner, or a brother's soul being trapped inside of a robot and said robot sacrificing themselves for what could be eternity just to give their brother a mere CHANCE at succeeding isn't dark enough? Or I don't know, Aurene's entire family being killed already anyway.

    I do not believe anyone in this thread has ever said "Hey, I can write better than the current authors for these episodes!" This discussion has been about Aurene and our opinions and ways in which we think the story will continue forward. I posed the idea of Joko's lich powers because as stated earlier in another AMA, I expressed the opinion that Joko's death seemed sudden and unneeded and was almost a "One and done" storyline. Which was shot down by a developer stating that it wasn't like that and they had their specific reasons. See Link: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/584385/#Comment_584385 .

    As for the rest of your comments, I'm not sure what you want an answer to since there isn't really any questions involved. Feel free to ask more questions if this doesn't clear up everything for you.

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:

    @Alimar.8760 said:

    @flog.3485 said:
    I would say this about Aurene:

    It is not because Aurene died that her magic is gone. And her magic still lives through Caithe because she absorbed the magic of Palawa Joko imo.
    Caithe might have lost her connection with Aurene but it the end she still became a minion of Aurene.

    Well when Zhaitan died it didn't mean the undead weren't still infesting ore. All it did was open up a way for others to cleanse the undead or re-purpose them. Same thing with Mordremoth. Minions don't just die if their master dies.

    True I just wanted to point out that whether Aurene is alive or Caithe being a receptacle of Aurene, we might still be able to balance out magic no matter what.

    I'm sure that the connection with Caithe is no mere coincidence it happened. I'm sure it'll be used somewhere down the line to do something important. It's too much of a "lantern" to just create a whole new model and weapon set for Caithe only for it to remain unused story wise.

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Athel.2076 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Oh joy, dragging Kralk out for another living season AND an expansion. Didn’t they say Kralk was being resolved this season? I remember them saying something about Kralk and Joko.

    I really don’t see them dragging Kralk out for a full season AND an expansion. I’d rather him be finished next episode seeing as he’s already on the verge of death anyway. Would be a little anticlimactic to just give him a full season and an expansion to recover from this encounter, especially when the only reason we rushed this attack is because Glint said that Kralk is doing too much damage to the mists. What then during this season and expansion? He just keeps roaming around recovering and devouring the fabric of reality for us to all of a sudden be able to do what we couldn’t do this episode or the next?

    This.

    Oh, by the way, are we out of dragonsblood weapons now? Because without those, we've pretty much lost already, right? So its either ressurection so we can get the factory going again, or you've got some cheap trapdoor in the story.

    Either way, the Kralk bit is getting old. We've still got Jormag, Primordius and seasick-Steve the underwater wonder. Can we move on, please?

    I don't think we're out of dragonsblood weapons. There isn't really a time frame in which we're given when we start production and fight Kralk. But we had enough weapons to equip a decent sized army at least according to the story. But remember, Dragonsblood weapons were the easiest way to damage Kralk, not the only way. There was the fact that Snaff was able to defeat Kralk mentally in the books.

    Plus there are other "Good" dragons around. Most notable according to GW1 history are ones that are living in Cantha. Kunnavang comes most to mind since she helped the PC's back in the game prepare to kill Shirou.

    Honestly though, I don't think the writers are flying on the seat of their pants. They (I hope) have put a lot of thought and work into how to tell this story. So we'll be able to see if our concerns are founded in the upcoming episode.

  • @Danikat.8537 said:
    That's the only explanation I've heard which makes sense to me.

    There's actually a new spicy theory floating around

    That it's actually the Commander (PC) that got branded. Not entirely, but we're trapped in a powerful branding crystal from Krakatorrik himself and slowly getting corrupted but life is continuing as normal for us in our head with the discovery of Aurene being killed and us trying to figure out where to go from there.

    So effectively until the story continues life goes on as it always has. In reality Aurene and the others are trying to save us. Aurene was probably badly injured since she actually did take the attack and it still got us. Having removed us from the fight, we did injure Kralkatorrik enough to probably make him screw off to heal and satisfied he had branded us. Pretty spooky.

    https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/ager7g/spoilers_my_strange_theory_on_episode_5/

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    That's the only explanation I've heard which makes sense to me.

    There's actually a new spicy theory floating around

    That it's actually the Commander (PC) that got branded. Not entirely, but we're trapped in a powerful branding crystal from Krakatorrik himself and slowly getting corrupted but life is continuing as normal for us in our head with the discovery of Aurene being killed and us trying to figure out where to go from there.

    So effectively until the story continues life goes on as it always has. In reality Aurene and the others are trying to save us. Aurene was probably badly injured since she actually did take the attack and it still got us. Having removed us from the fight, we did injure Kralkatorrik enough to probably make him screw off to heal and satisfied he had branded us. Pretty spooky.

    https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/ager7g/spoilers_my_strange_theory_on_episode_5/

    While that theory is quite extraordinary, I'm not sure that that'll be the actual one. Props for whoever came up with that theory though. Its a fun brain teaser.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Matt H.6142 said:
    My theories are

    1. She stays dead, and she joins her mother and brother together in the Mists for the true final fight. She doesn't not return to Tyria.

    《 probable

    1. She's a seed in Caithe like Mordremoth was in Trehearne.

    《 that was a very Mordremoth thing to do. Kralkatorrik and his lineage can't replicate it. Mordremoth wasn't a physical dragon, bit rather a mind that inhabited any plantoid body.

    1. She's just dead, and we struggle through the hopelessness of it until some 'power inside us all along' moment happens.

    《 more probable. Deus Ex Machina all the way to the end.

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2019

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    Bringing her back in the very next episode very much cheapens her death in All or Nothing. It would do away with the tension and desperation that the heavy loss hit us with far too quickly.

    In my opinion, the best time to bring her back is Season 5, episode 2 or 3. That gives us a couple episodes to grieve, deal with fallout of the failure [...]

    If she comes back, then sacrificing Aurene in that fight was not a failure but the actual plan all along, i.e. what Glint had foreseen from the beginning.

  • @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    《 probable

    1. She's a seed in Caithe like Mordremoth was in Trehearne.

    《 that was a very Mordremoth thing to do. Kralkatorrik and his lineage can't replicate it. Mordremoth wasn't a physical dragon, bit rather a mind that inhabited any plantoid body.

    Thanks for the reply. She has absorbed Mordremoth power though; Taimi alluded to that in Caithe’s transformation. Her baby design had intentional Mordremoth influence to signify this and she’s been telepathic since the start. Guess we’ll see.

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Matt H.6142 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    《 probable

    1. She's a seed in Caithe like Mordremoth was in Trehearne.

    《 that was a very Mordremoth thing to do. Kralkatorrik and his lineage can't replicate it. Mordremoth wasn't a physical dragon, bit rather a mind that inhabited any plantoid body.

    Thanks for the reply. She has absorbed Mordremoth power though; Taimi alluded to that in Caithe’s transformation. Her baby design had intentional Mordremoth influence to signify this and she’s been telepathic since the start. Guess we’ll see.

    While we're getting into theories that really have no solid evidence. I think the magic of Mordremoth was absorbed, but not his uniqueness. If that makes sense. We know that just because Kralk absorbed Zhaitan's magic, doesn't mean he suddenly became the undead dragon, or started growing 3 extra heads.

    Hard to see what the plans are. I think Aruene will always remain a crystal dragon and she will stay that way. Unless something pulls the rug from under us and we get a "You are what you eat." and she suddenly turns into a Part Crystal, Part Plant, Part Zhaitan, Part God, Part Lich dragon queen? I'd pay to see that show.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Matt H.6142 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    《 probable

    1. She's a seed in Caithe like Mordremoth was in Trehearne.

    《 that was a very Mordremoth thing to do. Kralkatorrik and his lineage can't replicate it. Mordremoth wasn't a physical dragon, bit rather a mind that inhabited any plantoid body.

    Thanks for the reply. She has absorbed Mordremoth power though; Taimi alluded to that in Caithe’s transformation. Her baby design had intentional Mordremoth influence to signify this and she’s been telepathic since the start. Guess we’ll see.

    I thought it was caithe alluding to the fact that aurene didn’t corrupt her, but layd a connection.
    That said, i also remember taimi being confused rather than alluding to mordremoth’s power, as she something along the lines “i thought minions couldn’t be corrupted”.
    I cant give an absolute answer to this query, but i think the revival bit was really just mordremoth since his real ‘he’ was just a mind, in a body he made himself, so i suppose he could just move it around freely.

    Although I hate the theory myself, if aurene comes back, Joko is the probably the hook they’re going with. Otherwise i dont see why they would bring it back in ogden’s prophecy

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Caithe the crystal Pale Tree?

    Yeah, I dunno guys...

  • Poormany.4507Poormany.4507 Member ✭✭
    edited January 20, 2019

    I think most likely for the next episode's and Season cliffhanger either Aurene comes back somehow (Joko magic maybe) and we kill Kralk early next season (similar to Joko arc lasting 3 episodes). That or the PC decides to just go for it and finish off Kralk next episode and watch as the chaos unfolds as the season ending and Aurene comes back next season and deals with that issue. Either way seems like the same outcome and we'll be moving on from Kralk to the next threat in Season 5.

    Hoping they don't drag Kralk much longer because chasing him across the desert from one spot to the next is getting kind of boring at this point. However, I also hope that if Aurene doesn't come back to replace Kralk, they don't just macguffin their way out of the killing elder dragons problem with solutions involving the Pale Tree or other characters coming out of nowhere randomly (i.e. real Lazarus) without any kind of prior hinting in game, or some other copout solution.

  • casualkenny.9817casualkenny.9817 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2019

    Would like to know how you guys interpete aurene's final glance at us (I tot that bit was really well done, to capture emotions in that single backward glance)

    Personally, I felt it conveyed foreknowledge, resigned determination, a certain sense of farewell, a wish to say something important.

    I think that penultimate moment suggested that Aurene was already emotionally prepared for it, but for hers (and glint's) reason, had not shared it with anyone.

    I'm guessing a trojan horse ploy, and I'm guessing that we will never see Aurene again as Aurene.

    Edit: ah... I rewatched it on YouTube and yea I got the sequence wrong lol...

  • Aurene looked back and the Commander nodded (by the motion of the screen). Not sure if Aurene was actually asking us a question, nor do I think we knew the full extend of what she was asking about... but that is what the scene showed. Most simply, Aurene was simply hesitating, and waiting for encouragement, but that would be odd considering Aurene seems to have the most knowledge about what had to happen. The whole time the Commander is swinging blind in this episode (and most of the GW2 story), but she seemingly approved the plan, while also having more understanding of the situation, why would she looked towards the Naive commander for reassurance?

    Also for the final moment, I don't know how many people caught on to it, but after repeatedly re watching it, I have determined that Kralkatorric showed little interest in Aurene for that final attack. In fact, Kralkatorric was directly targeting the Commander until Aurene canceled his beam. Only then did Kralk turn the bean towards Aurene, increase it's power and overcame Aurene's counter attack. Kralk barely paid attention to where Aurene flew off to, she could have easily escaped that attack.

    That means Aurene had a choice not to die there. Wouldn't be good for the game if the player character was blasted away... so the narrative didn't have a choice... but it conveys that Aurene chose to protect the Commander and face her certain death. Realizing that, makes her death more sad? But, since she chose it, maybe we can be reassured that it is according to plan... perhaps at according to prophecy?

  • @Hesacon.8735 said:
    Aurene also

    counter-branded Kralk, as you could see at the end he was at least half blue from a direct hit from Aurene. That could make Kralk a minion of Aurene, in some sense.

    So there's that.

    I was thinking the same thing, most likely in forlorn hope, but what if she just took his body.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2019

    @IstariWho.7342 said:
    I was thinking the same thing, most likely in forlorn hope, but what if she just took his body.

    Wow, speculations are getting crazier by the day! =)

    I am certain that we are facing only two possibilities: either Aurene is dead for good and Kralkatorrik manipulated us (even Glint?) into fighting him prematurely, or she will return as some sort of (ascended?) "celestial" Mists dragon.

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