Why do all the good players leave GW2? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why do all the good players leave GW2?

Hello all I have a legit question, If you wana be trolly with your answer whatever haha but im looking for actual answer, im still newer to the game picked up the game around a year after pof release I know that gw2 was supposed to have a competitive like Esports thing a long long long time ago but that looks like its been scrapped I hear all the time that a lot of the really good players left but why? this seems to be a touchy question but im pretty curious :)

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Comments

  • interesting :) thanks all for the answers, people definitely are still good at the game but I have noticed for example in WvW if you don't play on reset you wont really find any good fights, I was playing last night it was baron, no roamers, no fights, maybe MAYBE 1 person running around but that's about it, its discouraging for sure I love the game and have been making youtube videos for it but should I maybe look into another game too? GW is an amazing game, but I definitely agree its pve focused.

  • sinsrock.1702sinsrock.1702 Member ✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    I think this is the comment that puts it into perspective the most, thanks for this. I think my biggest thing Is I Love Mmos. but there are no thriving mmos, even WoW is dying. I had more traction In ESO then I do here and people where definitely more accepting I don't think im going to leave GW but this answers my question best Thank you :) > @syszery.1592 said:

    What is the incentive to play competitively? There are no major events, the attention you get by playing GW is not that impressive and hence it is hard to get a good sponsor and earn money... So why should good players or teams invest in this game if they can move on to another one? With all the other problems the game currently has it is not very likely that anything will change in the future, I fear.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sinsrock.1702 said:
    Hello all I have a legit question, If you wana be trolly with your answer whatever haha but im looking for actual answer, im still newer to the game picked up the game around a year after pof release I know that gw2 was supposed to have a competitive like Esports thing a long long long time ago but that looks like its been scrapped I hear all the time that a lot of the really good players left but why? this seems to be a touchy question but im pretty curious :)

    The game is nearly 7 years old, people come and people go, including top players.

    But truth be told, there are a lot of those players whom people believe left the game, who never left the game at all. They just had main accounts banned and came back with alt accounts.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    GW2 is all about PvE. PvP lacks all things a competitive game mode needs except for a good dynamic combat system (that also comes from PvE).

  • Twyn.7320Twyn.7320 Member ✭✭✭

    I won't speak for the top players, because I'm really not one. But there's another side to it, that GW2 doesn't foster the environment for up-and-coming players. For instance, I'm quite PvP focused in any game that I play and wanted to carry this over to GW2. The point that I generally stopped, whilst I enjoy the classes that I play, is that the community population is quite small and when that occurs, the level of toxicity artificially increases because you're more likely to run into 'those players'. These are the players that AFK when things go wrong, that scream abuse when you have a 50 point gap. These are the players that don't listen to instructions that could win a match, but would rather that everyone stayed silent because: 'You're not the leader of me, [insert expletive here].'

    For example, in some divisions, you could and can run 2x Thief, if you have the game knowledge to do it. You can essentially play any class and gain the skill to reach a high enough rank. However, the community doesn't believe this, overall. So wandering into a match-up, on something that you want to play and getting told to 'switch or get reported', is completely detrimental to the growth of new players. Essentially, if you don't know how the report system works, getting a threat of 'banned for match manipulation' is really off-putting for the rise of new talent.

    In addition to this, the layers of skill differ between classes. If one class is easy and another is really challenging to do the same thing, you're forced to pick the easy one even if it's the most mind-numbing thing ever. The reward of getting 5 kills in 3 seconds is only great if you feel like you've actually gained knowledge from it. Pressing two buttons and nuking a team isn't fun or healthy for a PvP game. So anything that's 'high condi pressure' or 'high burst' for a meta without a clear, extreme counter removes any kind of skill, which is what a PvP game needs to stay populated and active. It needs layers, and making the game more simplistic, removes those layers.

    If I can take a stab at why SOME players have left, it's likely the decline of complexity in the gameplay itself, and the lack of support for PvP over recent years.

  • @Exatherion.3075 said:
    Basically we were promised in the MMO-Manifesto that GW2 would have all the good things of GW1.

    What did we have concerning PvP in GW1? Diverse Modes...... Guild Hall focussed PvP(it's even called Guild Wars!)

    Before I start my critic please be assured that I have no evil intentions, and all the exaggerations I use are for fun and not serious - please don't take it personal and read it with the right voice in your head :P

    What do we have in GW2? Capture the point?!?! The whole(!) PvP is based on this one mode that get's boring very very fast. Most of the new players don't even understand how it's supposed to work. Balancing is one thing - but not including all essential modes for PvP spoils the experience. In GW1 we had the choice even the Codex Arena was a great idea..... There also no PvP we can watch like in GW1 embedded in the game. GW1 had a great PvP design. It might not have been the most balanced one but it was fun!

    Wow this definitely hits home, I played Gw1 for over 10 years, your absolutely right, more game modes helped keep the classes balanced, where 1 class wouldn't be good in 1 game mode it would be good in another making the "meta" more diverse in different game types

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Things were going good jn pvp rill it cam to season 5 and all bets were off.

    Sure HoT was a jumbled mess and brought us condition wars but.. once it went from team play (or solo like I did 90% of the time) to the wintrade wars we are at now. That was the major hit with losing good ppl players. Then came the total lack of any pvp support with the same mundane maps that require you to stand in a circle.

    Now sadly we dont have a legit leaderboard and that also turns away strict pvp players that want some actual competitive pvp.

    I miss seasons 1 - 4

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    I heard they all came back since they got duo queue. Thats what they said last season.

  • The community.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    I heard they all came back since they got duo queue. Thats what they said last season.

    Not all, not even close. Maybe only like 25% of the people that left came back with the duo q at most...with out a 5 man q you will never see the numbers pvp had in its esport era.

  • Lot's of things they could have done with the game but haven't not much has changed when you compare it to other titles. That and no PvP focus anymore and before people get on to me for saying that. Name the last good update that made players flood to PvP or WvW and if you don't even focus on those game modes to improve them. Why bother having them that's just the reasons I have gotten from other players from the original days of GW2. Cheers with the arguing amongst yourselves

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    I heard they all came back since they got duo queue. Thats what they said last season.

    Not all, not even close. Maybe only like 25% of the people that left came back with the duo q at most...with out a 5 man q you will never see the numbers pvp had in its esport era.

    They need to get their act sorted out then. They made big noise to get duo queue last season and got it. All lies, I guess then. Wrecking our games for no reason.

    Tbh - I'd rather have them gone as natural attrition and see new good players emerge over time.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    I heard they all came back since they got duo queue. Thats what they said last season.

    Not all, not even close. Maybe only like 25% of the people that left came back with the duo q at most...with out a 5 man q you will never see the numbers pvp had in its esport era.

    They need to get their act sorted out then. They made big noise to get duo queue last season and got it. All lies, I guess then. Wrecking our games for no reason.

    Tbh - I'd rather have them gone as natural attrition and see new good players emerge over time.

    Id like to see gw2 over take its predecessor in terms of pvp content and build diversity. But that probably wont happen in gw2 life span. If u take the dodge mechanic and put it into gw1 i feel that game can make a biiig comback.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    I know a lot of players left when they scrapped team queue, I was in 3 pvp guilds that died out and one of those guilds was atleast 80 players, we weren't all that great but we made up for player population. Other players have mentioned they were in guilds that were 200 deep that died out and in one thread we got a rough tally of over 1k players from people speaking up about their guilds dying out from the change.

    To players like myself, we read the game name as guild wars and then presume we can be in a guild and fight other guilds, this could be achieved in WvW until a dev said it violated thier game mode and we could also achieve this in pvp until they removed team queue... turns out the name "guild wars" is lore and not what you can do in game.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    There are better games to put their talents on

  • @Jeknar.6184 said:
    I'll let others do the long answer, but the short answer is: I'm still here

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    Speak the truth

    Game is Depressing
    'Gw2 can not recover'
    "Absolutely nothing to Guild Wars 2'
    'Why waste your talent on Guild Wars 2'
    'It's the Same Thing' 'Talk about the Same Thing'

    "History Repeats Itself'
    Especially When You Ignore It

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MrFrusciante.2438 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    I'll let others do the long answer, but the short answer is: I'm still here

    What happen to fastcar and rambocop? Is that yoose?

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Bring back Impending Dhuum.
    No FotM for me, only thief, weak or strong.

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    I used to be a " good " player back in times. I did personnaly play bother much less because i'm not a huge fan of the seasonal system, which asks you to deal with the same solo queue problems every single season. I used to play competitive games a lot and ladders which were rather logic, even in GW1, but i'm not fan of the way ladders are made in games nowadays.

  • PvPers always complain, in every game.

  • Delweyn.1309Delweyn.1309 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019
                     At lauch (big hope in pvp esport)                                                    since esport failed (many years)
    
                                    Ane support in pvp                                                             Anet support in pvp
    

    <--------------------------------------------------------------------------->................../.................. <-->

    So it's normal that many players are staying away from pvp, even pve who would like to do some from time to time.

    Nearly nothing has changed since years.
    What's done in pvp since +4 years = ressources of maybe 1 episode of 1 season of living world in pve (with map and all).

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sinsrock.1702 said:
    Hello all I have a legit question, If you wana be trolly with your answer whatever haha but im looking for actual answer, im still newer to the game picked up the game around a year after pof release I know that gw2 was supposed to have a competitive like Esports thing a long long long time ago but that looks like its been scrapped I hear all the time that a lot of the really good players left but why? this seems to be a touchy question but im pretty curious :)

    Honestly it's because many of these competitive players were in it for the money. It was their livelihood. They either needed to find a job, and never returned to GW2 or just found another game to make money from and be competitive again. Like the whole of Team Denial/TCG transferred themselves into Smite for a time. Lord Helseth landed a really lucrative job outside gaming. Now most of them(3/5) are back actually.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Two reasons:

    1. pro players need it to be e-sports (real money rewards at tournaments, recognition, stable future with big fan following). GW2 sPvP is not suited for that role and dropped out from e-sport scene.

    2. Good players that are in it just for fun, need good balance and changes in the meta. With small pvp team and infrequent balance patches (compared to mainstream pvp games like LoL) that's a tall order. Some things stay in meta for years (like guards, warriors and mesmers) while others can't see light of the day for equally long time (revenants as a whole save power herald, eles as a whole save weavers (and they're still nothing special), core necros, core engies)...

    Lower elo play lets you try various fun thinigs, but on higher elo it's meta or go home, and that meta is pretty stale...

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Game is all about gimmick builds and aoe spam based skills so.. it isnt primrally for skilled players... just gimmickers that show off playing against low performance builds.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In the long run no one (or more accurately a very tiny amount of players compared to the installed user base) likes gw2 conquest.

    Even when supported it draws very little viewership and fails to retain new viewers; and viewership is the main back bone of e-sports.

    So then devs support it less, then players leave because there is no real incentive.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think every answer will be some variation of poor balance,support and lack of incentives

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Good as in less casual players?

    It generally come down to boring. There are plenty of games out there, no reason to stick to a game that struggle to keep people interested.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    Balance is horrible. When most of us die in combat we think to our self "well i could of prevented that by using X"
    i.e: a ranger rapid fires you, you cast DB and steal. it's countered ('rupt) and your now in range.

    Now when you die, the majority of the time the reason is just arena net's biased balance team.
    I.e: a ranger rapid fires you, you cast Db and steal, your dead. "Killed by nerf 98764"

    Then we have set's that where a joy to play at launch like S/d, reduced to brain dead levels. all the depth has been removed, and all the tricks that showed quality play have been deleted. Like alot of the old S/d user's i can't even play that set anymore. it so easy it makes me angry.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Balance isn't really the problem. Nobody here really uses the word balance in the way that adequately describes the true problem. The real issue is that GW2 is flawed at a fundamental design level, and "balance" can't fix that

    Well said!!

  • GW2's main target audience isn't skilled, hardcore gamers. It's main audience is casuals, and with that theyre going to spend more resources on things for casual players which is basically the living story and gem store stuff. Some people are saying they just don't know how to balance and make pvp rewarding, which is somewhat true, but its because they aren't allocating their resources towards it.

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ScottBroChill.3254 said:
    GW2's main target audience isn't skilled, hardcore gamers. It's main audience is casuals, and with that theyre going to spend more resources on things for casual players which is basically the living story and gem store stuff. Some people are saying they just don't know how to balance and make pvp rewarding, which is somewhat true, but its because they aren't allocating their resources towards it.

    Well said and spot on its not that there aren't people to fix pvp its just lack of caring. Gw1 had epic pvp because that what the game focused on before the gem store days where they pump out new skins to buy every other month or so. That is why i have been forced to play unranked after a epic season 1-4 (mostly solo) and trying up to season 7 but the wintrading was too much to bother with.

  • Henrik.7560Henrik.7560 Member ✭✭✭

    Heart of Thorns and the rise of the bunker meta deleted 75% of PvP player base because aNet took 1 year to "fix" it, however they didnn't listen to the community which were asking to tone down the power creep, boon output, and heal output of Elite Specializations, instead they just removed amulets, runes, and making the sigils extremely stale.
    In path of fires there's not much bunker meta as everything hits like a truck but also spams heals/boons even more excessively than HoT days, everything has been buffed through the roof and it is a spam meta.

    [eA] Sakura | Kaineng

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Balance isn't really the problem. Nobody here really uses the word balance in the way that adequately describes the true problem. The real issue is that GW2 is flawed at a fundamental design level, and "balance" can't fix that.

    While i understand where your coming from i don't agree. I've seen to many people fail there damage rotations. only to try and do the exact same rotation again and again. They don't react or even attempt to change it up. If everything wasn't power creeped, they wouldn't be placing as high as they are. but due to balance they can get away with shoddy play.

  • There is so many problems with Gw2 PvP. You can write an essay about balance only. I will write a lost of problems that arenanet didnt address and I dont belive that they will ever address it:

    • balance (or lack of it) - it is directly a result of frequency that balance patches are introduced. They are big and they are rare. It is quite different way of introducing balance changes than any PvP focused game like LoL or Dota. In Leagueoflegends - the biggest competitive game - small balance patch is introduced every 2 weeks and big changes are introduced with midseason/preseason patches.
      -visual clarity - it is a result of graphic style. It is pretty impossible to get a very clear gameplay with the graphic style. It can be better with some changes but nothing spectacular can be made to improve it.
    • limited amount of gamemodes - Stronghold and spvp are the only 2 modes that can count as competitive gamemodes. It is very small amount in comparison with other mmorpg titles. Limited amount of gamemodes shows how much attention have pve in comparison to pvp.
    • design choices and frustrating mechanics. I dont really understand how devs could make so good designed spec like scourge/holo/druid and then they have introduced so bad designed spec like deadeye. Deadeye is a perfect example how even a good idea can bring terrible results.
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