Change to Stealth for WvW/PvP Suggestion

Because some complaints just will not die, and Based upon the concept provided in this thread this is a simple concept question; would we like ANet to change stealth to the following;

• No changes to skills or traits as they stand.
• Now stealth looks to everyone like it would to party members (the predator cloak look from the movies) at all ranges.
• Still breaks targeting and can't be targeted while in stealth. However, could still be cleaved or AoE as now (just easier to tell if they are anywhere near you).
• Would work with AI as it works now (so for PvE and clearing camps, no changes).
• Still useful in close combat if used well, but best as a avoiding combat at range where it's harder to see option. You know, sneaking like the word STEALTH implies. As you'd be somewhat visible, the Revealed at Guard Posts and Watchtowers would be removed.

The theory on this method is that it probably requires the least development resources on ANet's part, and is perhaps most likely to be implemented quickly. This time the poll is anonymous, because @"MUDse.7623" suggested more would vote if not public.

Edited to add on Jan 28th, 2019--

Ok, at this point I just want to point out something.

The original version of this poll where people's votes were not anonymous had a clear favor to make changes in line with this. THIS VERSION, where voting in anon, has a clear favor toward that stealth is FINE AS IT IS.

What does this mean? It likely means that people only want to change it, they claim, cause of the bandwagon saying it needs to be changed, not that any ACTUAL WvW Players are finding huge issues with it. When people are allowed to vote what they think without being called out, seems most think Stealth is fine, and problems with it are a learn to play issue.

So, can we finally let this die and instead focus on overall balance, population issues, and pulling back the power creep?

you miss an option to say no to your suggestion without saying that stealth is fine.

@MUDse.7623 said:you miss an option to say no to your suggestion without saying that stealth is fine.

Umm.... that option is in fact there...

No, this would still be broken in WvW.

Because anyone who wants to say that is just going to be in the 'delete stealth' camp anyway. And you get one suggested integrated per post.

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:you miss an option to say no to your suggestion without saying that stealth is fine.

No, this would still be broken in WvW.

IMO your suggestion would delete stealth against any half competent player on anything else than a mesmer /freshair ele.i do think that every version of stealth has issues to be balanced either for the user or the opponent so no stealth is not fine, neither is your suggestion.

Well, we'll agree to disagree. I think Deadeyes with their range would continue to annoy the cat out of me with this.

But that's why it's an opinion poll. Something needs to be done to get people to stop complaining.

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Well, we'll agree to disagree. I think Deadeyes with their range would continue to annoy the cat out of me with this.

But that's why it's an opinion poll. Something needs to be done to get people to stop complaining.

sure but that still means that you lack that option in your poll.

edit: and i said against your mesmers your suggestion works, but most builds do not 'require' a target like mesmer and can just spamm cleave. add a condition and that character lights up anyway so you wont miss it.

edit2:i dont want to discard your approach as such, if you want stealth be harder to see but still visible without name tag here is what i would change about your suggestion:

stealth does not prevent targetting, but breaks targetting on each new instance of stealth applied. this way you dont have to bother how to balance stealth vs 'requires target'. then as you now can rather easily attack that person in stealth, they can fight back without breaking it. so stealth is basically sort of like protection of some kind. thieves do gain a new chance on using their stealth attack on each new instance of stealth.^this IMO is a change, a different approach to how stealth is used in combat, yet yours is mainly a nerf to a mechanic for it being annoying. currently stealth is either usless or pretty much OP depending on situation, so hard to say its overall value, while with the changes i proposed to your idea it would have a more consistend value and wouldnt depend as much on the situation.

I'm not sure if there needs to be a change to stealth, I'd think not.

If there was to be a change though the only thing I can think of would be to change all the longer uptime or higher application skills to make sure stealth was not something you built around but rather intergrated into an existing playstyle. A good example is how veil is used by groups, it is used as a distance crusher, momentum turner and sometimes as a reset or apart of an escape but is never the whole of it. Similarily the elixir toss on Engineers, it can be a quick setup on approach, a setup for escape or a reset but never really anything that carries you. For thieves I've always enjoyed staff and sword builds more for that reason, they may still stealth but never really build around it. That's why the DE or the old DP-builds (or the HoT trapper builds) were always less enjoyable for me because it's always the same setup and becomes a reliance on something that it doesn't really have to rely on. In fact, it is these crutches that made Anet add all the reveal debuffs in the first place.

I would miss longer stealth uptimes for larger group play though, there is quite some charm with coordinated team stealthing and counterplay to that or many other underexplored team options with stealth, but overall it wouldn't perhaps be as great a loss as the gain from a superior balance platform that could be built in its stead should stealth be less of a setup and more of a panic button or table turner only.

The OP's suggestion is problematic much for the same reason as the base mechanics of the Mesmer class: It affects differently experienced players so differently. Experienced players have little trouble tracking the player through a number of clones but for an inexperienced player this can make Mesmers seem unbeatable. Well, that is assuming that it will be sufficiently hard to spot but it certainly runs that risk for new players. I'd rather have less, real stealth.

Option 6: Force all Deadeyes to have a mini equipped at all times.

Next option:Cancel expansion 3 and delete stealth from the game while rework the classes that can utilize it.

I'd say remove ability to stack stealth. It's stupid in roaming and it's stupid in gvg too. The result is the same - someone dies almost instantly after it. In other words, make it work like superspeed which resets its duration when reapplied.

In the worse case: add diminishing returns after stealthing/leaving stealth: same effect like exhaust, which stops you from stealthing for some time (3-5 seconds for example).

Stealth is an invulnerability and it can be spammed every 3 seconds, of course it needs to be reworked or revoke in WvW and PvP specially while in combat.

And yes, it is an INVULNERABILITY because you cannot damage the target while in stealth because you cannot see it, you can throw random attacks at an area but that does not mean you will hit the target, so if you do not hit the target, the target is invulnerable. Also, there are skills that require a target to activate, therefore, the whole stealth mechanic is an invulnerability that can be spammed and that NEEDS TO GO!

@Hitman.5829 said:Stealth is an invulnerability and it can be spammed every 3 seconds, of course it needs to be reworked or revoke in WvW and PvP specially while in combat.

And yes, it is an INVULNERABILITY because you cannot damage the target while in stealth because you cannot see it, you can throw random attacks at an area but that does not mean you will hit the target, so if you do not hit the target, the target is invulnerable. Also, there are skills that require a target to activate, therefore, the whole stealth mechanic is an invulnerability that can be spammed and that NEEDS TO GO!

Tell us more how Stealth is an Invulnerability... I’m pretty sure anyone stealthed still takes Damage, can still be CC’ed etc..... by this logic, Blind is an Invulnerability...... being out of Range is an Invulnerability......

@Hitman.5829 said:Stealth is an invulnerability and it can be spammed every 3 seconds, of course it needs to be reworked or revoke in WvW and PvP specially while in combat.

And yes, it is an INVULNERABILITY because you cannot damage the target while in stealth because you cannot see it, you can throw random attacks at an area but that does not mean you will hit the target, so if you do not hit the target, the target is invulnerable. Also, there are skills that require a target to activate, therefore, the whole stealth mechanic is an invulnerability that can be spammed and that NEEDS TO GO!

Yikes my dude. As a herald both good thieves and mesmers are terrible matchups for me and I still don't think that being in stealth is invuln.

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

Something needs to be done to get people to stop complaining.

That would require shutting the servers off.

@Hitman.5829 said:Stealth is an invulnerability and it can be spammed every 3 seconds, of course it needs to be reworked or revoke in WvW and PvP specially while in combat.

And yes, it is an INVULNERABILITY because you cannot damage the target while in stealth because you cannot see it, you can throw random attacks at an area but that does not mean you will hit the target, so if you do not hit the target, the target is invulnerable. Also, there are skills that require a target to activate, therefore, the whole stealth mechanic is an invulnerability that can be spammed and that NEEDS TO GO!

I'm sorry but your interpretation of invulnerability is very off the mark here, in terms of a stealthed target, as BlaqueFyre has also pointed out.

Think stealth is fine,the only issue was DE really. Mesmer stealth is fine imo so is dd/core and there's still a thing called revealed.Have issues with stealth classes ? Make a change to your build and add in reveal,most specs can.Besides if you can't or won't than let someone else in your party add a reveal. They already put in a lazy band aid fix to screw over DE's with marked everywhere because they probably have no clue how to balance stealth on DE without breaking the spec,so they just made it so people have a " safe haven" to run too and lure the DE towards.

@Hitman.5829 said:Stealth is an invulnerability and it can be spammed every 3 seconds, of course it needs to be reworked or revoke in WvW and PvP specially while in combat.

And yes, it is an INVULNERABILITY because you cannot damage the target while in stealth because you cannot see it, you can throw random attacks at an area but that does not mean you will hit the target, so if you do not hit the target, the target is invulnerable. Also, there are skills that require a target to activate, therefore, the whole stealth mechanic is an invulnerability that can be spammed and that NEEDS TO GO!

Flat out simply wrong. If you're not hitting, that is a learn to play issue.

Not hitting someone in stealth means you are;1) Using ranged, which can't target in stealth.2) Not using cleave/AoE in the right direction from knowing where the enemy would likely attack you from (hint: unless DE most likely behind you because melee is most damage).3) Not even trying.

As much as I hate permastealth and would be happy with it being adjusted, part of me does appreciate that it exists in the game. I occasionally will log onto my Deadeye and play a scout role so I can comfortably track enemy groups while permastealthed. I don't actually kill anything and my role could be better served in another way, but it being a possibility is appealing to me. With that said, it doesn't really justify it being [ab]used in the ways it currently is. I look forward to Camelot Unchained's eventual release because the scout archetypes (hello Wisp!) appeal to me a ton and I appreciate that their devs are giving them such elusiveness at the cost of damage and toe-to-toe combat potential.

Change DE stealth access - > yesChange whole stealth mechanic - > no

The Q_Q about Stealth is already a meme, so I will save my arguments on this subject.

So my solution:1) Remove the whole marked thing.2) Make stealth so if you stack it, it only stacks for 1 extra second.3) When stealth expires naturally you always get revealed for 2 seconds.4) When stealth expires because you used your stealth skill, you get revealed for 3 seconds.5) Skills from other classes that reveal you can stay the same.

This way, there will never be permanent stealth. Also, you can stay stealthed longer if you like, for example, when you use 'shadow refuge' you can stay stealhted as long as you stay inside the refuge (wich is logical). The moment you go out, you will have 3 seconds stealth left to reposition or use stealth skill. If you have the 'Meld with Shadows' traits, you will instead of 3 seconds have 4 seconds stealth while leaving the refuge.This also applies to combo fields that grant stealth (thief, but also soulbeast), the combo grants 3 seconds of stealth, but if you do the leap again it just adds 1 second more stealth, so if you leave you are still left with 3 seconds of stealth.

Elite skill like mesmers invis, will be more 'elite' because they grant a longer initial stealth duration as opposing to smaller durations from other skills.

Stealth, or some sort of cloaking, is present in many MMO games. Take ESO e.g., where every class has access to it via crouching (blends into the environment, becomes hidden), and equally every class has access to reveal. Only one class has an actual ability to cloak (Nightblade, assassin class).

Stealth wouldn't be an issue on its own, but its implementation is bad.

here's an idea: make stealth untargetable predator cloak (mini's, name tags, etc. stay hidden) and easily "spammable" but make invisibility a different boon that functions like the current stealth (but it's harder to get) reveal skills now turns invisiblity into stealth and makes stealthed characters targetable.

@Caedmon.6798 said:Think stealth is fine,the only issue was DE really. Mesmer stealth is fine imo so is dd/core and there's still a thing called revealed.Have issues with stealth classes ? Make a change to your build and add in reveal,most specs can.

that's arguable, only 4 of the core classes have skills that apply revealed (one of which loses his when he uses any espec) and only 2 of the classes gain revealing skill(s) in one of their espec

@derd.6413 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:Think stealth is fine,the only issue was DE really. Mesmer stealth is fine imo so is dd/core and there's still a thing called revealed.Have issues with stealth classes ? Make a change to your build and add in reveal,most specs can.

If you have to take a specific class/build to stealth that much, why shouldnt you have to take another specific class/build to counter that specific class/build?

Some people see WvW in really weird ways. Is GW2 a shooter or an RPG?

@"Caedmon.6798" said:Think stealth is fine,the only issue was DE really. Mesmer stealth is fine imo so is dd/core and there's still a thing called revealed.Have issues with stealth classes ? Make a change to your build and add in reveal,most specs can.

Whats there to argue about ? If you want to counter something you grab the right tool for it.I also said,if you cant or wont than let someone else in your party run a reveal,or is everyone suddenly a solo roamer ?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed