xxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxx

FINALLY.

Someone is hitting the right stuff and not blindly waving their tiny sticks.

Question though. Do you think that blind trait is too strong? The name escapes me, sadly, so I would have to go look for it.

90% of that is core mesmer. And mirage would still be cancer after those changes.IH, MC in CC, Renewing Oasis, axe detarget spam, some others.

EDIT: I just saw "ICD on deceptive evasion". That is among the single worst suggestions I have ever seen for Mesmer.

xxxxxxxxxx

Baffles me how Mesmer has been running wild for so long

Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

Mesmer main here, agree with everything except 8 and 9.You just cant put an ICD on deceptive evasion. Either rework, or leave it like that (I see no problem with it honestly)

xxxxxxxxxx

@Flandre.2870 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

So you say mirage can only do well if chaos is taken, yet you want to nerf it?Deceptive evasion is fine, it's IH that needs a look at.To make mirage like at the start of PoF a series of nerfs need to be reverted.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

I can confirm that if you remove chaos you going to have bad time in current state of things we have now. Or you go chaos or you getting destroyed without protection/higher vigor uptime thanks to BD.Also try mirage without IH . Its just...incredibly bad and lack in damage. So far as I know flande is a ranger main lol

@"mrauls.6519" said:Baffles me how Mesmer has been running wild for so long

Blame the "Knowledgeable community" trying to nerf everything but the RIGHT thing

@"Flandre.2870" said:Infinite Horizon is only cancerous because of deceptive evasion. Otherwise trait is fine. Ether Feast>>>Renewing Oasis if you take away the mirror. Even mantra is better. Axe detarget is fine. If there's icd on deceptive evasion then it's not as obnoxious. Literally deceptive evasion has so many broken iterations it has to be toned down. If you want mesmer to not feel opressive that is. somehow NO ONE used to complain about the early pof sword/staff mirage (excluding elusive mind) because that was a fair build that took some effort to pull off. Let's go back to that sort of competitive balance for mesmer.

Deceptive Evasion is not cancer on core or chrono, but only cancer on mirage with infinite horizon. Therefore nerfing deceptive evasion makes no sense whatsoever when mirage and IH is the problem. For instance; make is so that deceptive evasion clones don't immediately use the ambush when spawning. Instead, they only use ambush when you dodge the next time. You can also lower condition damage from clones so they do comparable damage to the power-based clones. Incentivize shattering. Keep clones as distractions rather than damage sources. Also, can you explain "Literally deceptive evasion has so many broken iterations"?

Axe detarget is fine but not on a skill which does this:

• Burst condition damage
• Evade
• Shadowstep (+set up shatter)
• DetargetOn 8 second cooldown.

"Ether Feast>>>Renewing Oasis if you take away the mirror. Even mantra is better".Heal is called False Oasis, Renewing Oasis is the regen trait. It's fine, but I don't see how a regeneration trait fits a spec that is supposed to survive through evasion, distraction, confusion.

People did, in fact, complain about early pof mirage, as you said yourself (elusive mind). They simply moved on to complain about the next op thing when they realized Mirage was still op without that trait. Turns out dodging while CCd is still broken even without the stunbreak.

"Let's go back to that sort of competitive balance for mesmer". Yes, let's go back to condi chrono or shatter mesmer. Or even condi Mirage if you rework it first.

@Odik.4587 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

Hence the question, if chaos is fundamental to mirages, why is he advocating to nerf it.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

I'd say its a must go now with current damage flying around and lack of vigor is really obvious when you play non chaos version . Too much stuff to dodge. I dont even know how you can nerf chaos if not decimate every grandmaster it has ... Btw he suggest to nerf scepter even more than it was buffed ...?I'm not even sure if mirage will do as much damage as everyone complaint and being able to survive in same time if IH would be somehow nerfed or wouldnt exist.I'm curious only about patchnotes

@Flandre.2870 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

"The only successful mirages ever including me in mATs run chaos."Not true.

"Deceptive evasion makes the gameplay passive and creates broken interactions and unfun experience."Correction: mirage does.

"Make the mirage a proper roamer."Yes; it's called power mirage.

EDIT: your scepter suggestions are stupid too (even though i hate the weapon).

Flandre Mirage main? Wasn't he always playing SB...

xxxxxxxxxx

Luckily there are some honest people speaking the truth for this busted class. Even more valuable when such comments come from a top player.

@Flandre.2870 said:

Core mesmer will never be good, chrono will never use deceptive evasion since you have chronophantasma

What does chronophantasma even have to do with clone generation?

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Flandre.2870" said:Infinite Horizon is only cancerous because of deceptive evasion. Otherwise trait is fine. Ether Feast>>>Renewing Oasis if you take away the mirror. Even mantra is better. Axe detarget is fine. If there's icd on deceptive evasion then it's not as obnoxious. Literally deceptive evasion has so many broken iterations it has to be toned down. If you want mesmer to not feel opressive that is. somehow NO ONE used to complain about the early pof sword/staff mirage (excluding elusive mind) because that was a fair build that took some effort to pull off. Let's go back to that sort of competitive balance for mesmer.

• Burst condition damage
• Evade
• Shadowstep (+set up shatter)
• DetargetOn 8 second cooldown.

Maybe nerf Deceptive Evasion but only for Mirage. They already did this with Dhuumfire for Scourge, so it can be done (and is a healthy way to balance the game, rather than nerf a trait for every spec).

@Flandre.2870 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

Deceptive Evasion is the most active trait in this place you could choose. ICD on it would dumb down mesmer to passive dmg traits no player needs to think about, means compared to DE they don't add any skill need and produce more power creep. If you want to nerf anything about power mesmer look at superiority complex.If you think mesmer in general has too many clones look at all the buffed weapons now giving up to 2 clones (before zero) like scepter 2 or 2 phantasms (= 2 clones instead one) on staff 3, clone generation on sword ambush. Scepter needs to get put back in the state before buff and not nerfed even more than buffed before. Only one phantasm on staff (but with same dmg than both together before). These days mesmers don't even need to trait for DE for a high clone uptime and with DE it just gets ridiculous (especially since the phantasm clone generation is so delayed, that mesmer have often 3 clones +2 phantasm up at same time for high visual clutter and perma dmg output by shatterspam and phantasm spam), that is the big problem since illusion rework.

DE and IH are not a problem when the clone ambush skills are not too strong and mesmers can't dodge for days (a power mes without axe or Illusionary ambush can not dodge that often). If you delete the clone generation on sword ambush there will be no problem with that synergy anymore for sword mirages. Some condi ambush skills will get nerfed soon and the longer cd on Illusionary ambush will cut a bit of the dodge spam/ clone ambush spam on condimirages, lets see if this is enough.

Inspiration and Choasline in general need nerfs, they both are too strong in some ways and in general make mesmer very forgiving and noobfriendly to play.

I also miss some scepter nerfs in the patch notes (higher cd on the block/evade sc2 skill and no clone generation on sc2), less dmg and condidmg on sc3.

More or less agree with all points except 9 (i would add: replace vigor with another boon in chaosline). And i would add an inspiration nerf (otherwise i see all condi mirages just switch to equally carrying and even easier to play bunker chrono), signet invuln is pretty cancer, so is mantra spam heal stuff. I also would add a higher cd on axe 3. It is way too strong for such a short cd.

Anyway necro will get a bit of buffs, means i can't complain not that they were rly needed xD Prepare to see way more scrapper bunker again, not that i missed it...

@Flandre.2870 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

@"phokus.8934" said:Flandre Mirage main? Wasn't he always playing SB...

Ummm.... EXCUSE YOU! @Trevor Boyer.6524 assured us all that Boonbeast doesn't come close to countering mirage multiple times across multiple threads every time Mirage or Boonbeast were ever a topic of discussion. You dare slander him and the ranger forums?

The main idea that this mirage looks overpowered mostly if you from other side and lose.Then I take meta build and go pvp as mesmer on meta I was scared and sad - I don't feel any bust,loses more that wins, fall from upper gold to lower silver ..So if someone think that mesmer is up - ok - go and play it, no problem.But me after aprox 300 rated this eason games as mesmer was not impress, and don't have any plan to use this if not have additional boost.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

@"phokus.8934" said:Flandre Mirage main? Wasn't he always playing SB...

The point is, as a side noder boonbeast is (was?) the ultimate thing.

But: Condi mirage should never actually die to one, can always disengage. Condi mirage can also fill more different roles like for example +1 with it's condi burst and mobility. The problem is, it does not have to choose between roles, combines damage with mobility and sustain. The recent patch - while nerfing - still doesn't address the main issues, but well, that is not really unexpected (and goes for boonbeast as well, as far as I can see).

@Flandre.2870 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Agree on 2 3 6 7 the others are either who gives a kitten or are you out of your mind? (9)Regarding boons, I don't use chaos so I don't care, but it's funny when there are other professions with a thousand more boon access and uptime.

@"phokus.8934" said:Flandre Mirage main? Wasn't he always playing SB...

Of course core mesmer won't be good again, I am saying that condi chrono and core shatter were the REAL skilled builds for mesmer, not "early pof condi mirage" as you claim.

First of all chronophantasma had nothing to do with clones generation, second of all chronophantasma is stupid and should be removed. You do know there is a chronomancer without chronophantasma?

"deceptive evasion has many more stupid interactions, not just IH".You have STILL not explaineed this point despite me asking.

"Show me a mirage that did well in the current meta (last 6 months or so) without chaos."Zeromis.

"When it comes to mirage being a roamer look at earlier mats and how the class worked like with sword/staff build"If you want to play a roamer just play power mesmer, anet has said that 1. their vision for condis is a build-up damage-over-time playstyle and 2. they want mirage (condi mirage) to excel in longer fights. None of this fits your condi mirage roamer idea. You must realise that sword is a power weapon, not a condition one. The condi build was just carried by traits and Sword ambush being quite ridiculous.

I see why Anet has a hard time balancing mesmer if even mAT winner mirage has these suggestions...