Upcoming Balance Notes - 10/1/2019 - Page 11 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Professions

Upcoming Balance Notes - 10/1/2019

15678911>

Comments

  • RIP Scourge 10132019... 50 Man WvW Squads this weekend... Zero Zilch Nada No Scourges Allowed/ None Wanted.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Savach.7219 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    its almost as if people don't realize how crucial it is to kite as a necro... ah that's cuz they don't play necro. not being able to recall shades is kitten.

    make the Necromancer have as much life and shields as the elementalist and the balance will be successful

    Sure no probs here, if you give necro as good sustain and evades/movement as ele has

  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    Sure no probs here, if you give necro as good sustain and evades/movement as ele has

    I agree, we will tell the necromancers about the existence of two evades.
    and at the same time, reduce their amount of life in an altered form by four times

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nexxus.5347 said:
    RIP Scourge 10132019... 50 Man WvW Squads this weekend... Zero Zilch Nada No Scourges Allowed/ None Wanted.

    Is this specific to NA or something? I'm still seeing a metric ton of scourges in zergs. Are there as many as before? No, maybe they dont make up 70%+ of squads anymore.

    On the upside, blobbing and fighting zergs is just so much more enjoyable now with much better class variety. IMO this patch massively improved WvW... for everyone except the scourge of course.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Nexxus.5347 said:
    RIP Scourge 10132019... 50 Man WvW Squads this weekend... Zero Zilch Nada No Scourges Allowed/ None Wanted.

    Is this specific to NA or something? I'm still seeing a metric ton of scourges in zergs. Are there as many as before? No, maybe they dont make up 70%+ of squads anymore.

    On the upside, blobbing and fighting zergs is just so much more enjoyable now with much better class variety. IMO this patch massively improved WvW... for everyone except the scourge of course.

    The patch just made the gap between good scourges and bad scourges even bigger.
    And I don't think zerging is more enjoyable than before.
    The only upside is, that you don't die to invisible 10-15k hits from rev anymore and that ranger doesnt do 8k autoattacks from 2000 range anymore.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Nexxus.5347 said:
    RIP Scourge 10132019... 50 Man WvW Squads this weekend... Zero Zilch Nada No Scourges Allowed/ None Wanted.

    Is this specific to NA or something? I'm still seeing a metric ton of scourges in zergs. Are there as many as before? No, maybe they dont make up 70%+ of squads anymore.

    On the upside, blobbing and fighting zergs is just so much more enjoyable now with much better class variety. IMO this patch massively improved WvW... for everyone except the scourge of course.

    The patch just made the gap between good scourges and bad scourges even bigger.
    And I don't think zerging is more enjoyable than before.
    The only upside is, that you don't die to invisible 10-15k hits from rev anymore and that ranger doesnt do 8k autoattacks from 2000 range anymore.

    Reason why alot are like “u killed my build” or they don know what they can do now, while they are missing now if they bomb well they can be more effective.

    For some people hight numbers is everything....

    This gives space to introduce more roles into the larger groups, renegade/deamon with marshal or plaguedoctor is great to pull condis and give cd toward alacrity, while providing condi pressure and vampiric aoe plus daze pulses.

  • @Nimon.7840 said:
    The only upside is, that you don't die to invisible 10-15k hits from rev anymore and that ranger doesnt do 8k autoattacks from 2000 range anymore.

    https://pastenow.ru/03f1d4bdf4b0badc233ada4970916287 no comments

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Savach.7219 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    its almost as if people don't realize how crucial it is to kite as a necro... ah that's cuz they don't play necro. not being able to recall shades is kitten.

    make the Necromancer have as much life and shields as the elementalist and the balance will be successful

    Sure no probs here, if you give necro as good sustain and evades/movement as ele has

    You will have to heavily invest in healing power and learn hot to play piano to perfection if you want same "sustain" as ele, every single one of your builds must have min 500 healing power and enough toughness....or you can always play meme FA ele and hope for the best....you don't play an ele that's the main point here

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    The only upside is, that you don't die to invisible 10-15k hits from rev anymore and that ranger doesnt do 8k autoattacks from 2000 range anymore.

    Just don't stand in front of a gate. You've been warned.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Savach.7219 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    its almost as if people don't realize how crucial it is to kite as a necro... ah that's cuz they don't play necro. not being able to recall shades is kitten.

    make the Necromancer have as much life and shields as the elementalist and the balance will be successful

    Sure no probs here, if you give necro as good sustain and evades/movement as ele has

    You will have to heavily invest in healing power and learn hot to play piano to perfection if you want same "sustain" as ele, every single one of your builds must have min 500 healing power and enough toughness....or you can always play meme FA ele and hope for the best....you don't play an ele that's the main point here

    I played enough ele, to tell you that you can outsustain a lot of enemies, even if you don't exactly know, what you are doing.
    Ele is way way way better than most ele mains want to admit.

    And actually I played a lot of builds, that had had 400-500 healing power, it's not that hard to get that. But the difference between ele and necro: adding heal power on ele gives quite a lot of sustain, adding it on necro gives you almost nothing

    Yes there's a quite big gap between good and decent eles, but in my opinion, the gap between a good and a decent necro is much bigger.

    Sorry, but when I played sword Weaver I felt like I had an evade on every third button I pressed.
    So I didn't even need that much sustain. But it was a nice to have.
    That time I almost switched my main class from necro to ele. It just felt way better to be actually a fighter, than someone that is meant to be a bruiser but the actual combat style is trying to kite all day while everyone had/has more movement abilities than your class does.

  • in that assembly you could only kill a newbie.
    you probably haven’t met opponents who can kill you before you notice
    and speaking of “sustain” did you see 3-4 players try to kill one warrior or thief? this is sustain and this is not about the elementalist

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Savach.7219 said:

    in that assembly you could only kill a newbie.
    you probably haven’t met opponents who can kill you before you notice
    and speaking of “sustain” did you see 3-4 players try to kill one warrior or thief? this is sustain and this is not about the elementalist

    Yeah I give you that. I was just speaking about my personal experience in 1v1 duels in wvw.

  • and returning to the question, if the elementalist and the necromancer call for equal chances in battle, why do they have a double difference in life + shields or shroud?
    which puts the elementalist in a knowingly losing position

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Savach.7219 said:
    and returning to the question, if the elementalist and the necromancer call for equal chances in battle, why do they have a double difference in life + shields or shroud?
    which puts the elementalist in a knowingly losing position

    The elementalist have, for himself: evade skills, invuln frame, access to block and relatively cheap passive sustain in the form of regeneration, water attunment and soothing mist.

    The necromancer have for himself a large health pool, some extra health shield, a tiny bit of regen and need to actually hit a foe to gain health through life stealing.

    In term of pure damage mitigation potential the elementalist leave the necromancer far behind him for the sole reason that nullifying damage allow an infinite number of damage mitigation if used right while mitigating damage through health point only allow a finite amount of damage to be mitigated.

    The chances are more or less equal already and elementalist isn't in a "knowingly losing position". To put it simply, elementalist have a vastly superior damage mitigation potential than the necromancer, however elementalist's damage mitigation potential is also a lot more active than the necromancer's. If you were to bother to calculate the eHP of the elementalist you'd see that it's not far from the necromancer's. If you add in the fact that the elementalist have access to block/invuln/evade skills and the necromancer don't, you'd understand that your statement that the elementalist is in losing position is wrong.

  • all you said is a baseless set of arguments in fact, you will not find a group of 4 elementalists e.g. on sm's+t4
    the number of necromancers of healers is huge, unlike elementalists, and they can be played in middle raid groups, which refutes your words that the necromancer has little ability to support both himself and others
    You will not find an elementalist who solo to come in enemy zerg, scattering the fields around and staying alive, which again indicates the groundlessness of your statements.

    In term of pure damage mitigation potential the elementalist leave the necromancer far behind him for the sole reason that nullifying damage allow an infinite number of damage mitigation if used right while mitigating damage through health point only allow a finite amount of damage to be mitigated.

    if you are about www, for reference: the assembly "diamond skin" is absent in the game for ~4 years
    in other cases, it’s not the merit of class skills, but of a specific player

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Savach.7219 said:

    all you said is a baseless set of arguments in fact, you will not find a group of 4 elementalists e.g. on sm's+t4
    the number of necromancers of healers is huge, unlike elementalists, and they can be played in middle raid groups, which refutes your words that the necromancer has little ability to support both himself and others
    You will not find an elementalist who solo to come in enemy zerg, scattering the fields around and staying alive, which again indicates the groundlessness of your statements.

    In term of pure damage mitigation potential the elementalist leave the necromancer far behind him for the sole reason that nullifying damage allow an infinite number of damage mitigation if used right while mitigating damage through health point only allow a finite amount of damage to be mitigated.

    if you are about www, for reference: the assembly "diamond skin" is absent in the game for ~4 years
    in other cases, it’s not the merit of class skills, but of a specific player

    No what I explain to you is "metrics", not baseless. Just as much as dps potential exist, damage mitigation/avoidance/sustain exist metrically and elementalist is far from being in a bad place metrically. Basing yourself on what you think by hearsay or by having a "feeling that it's the case" is baseless.

    Even your argument about diamond skin is baseless, it's not because nobody use a trait that it doesn't exist. The only reason those traits aren't used is because they aren't seen as being the most effective option to use which doesn't make sense if you look at the metrics. And ANet base it's balance on metric whether players want it or not.

    It's extremly easy to give number for necromancer's effective health pool because the necromancer almost only use health point as a way to sustain himself. It's a bit harder for other professions due to their access to invuln/block and evade skills but not impossible. Just take a bit of your time to do some maths and you'll eventually understand.

  • replace "metric" with "theory", and I agree with you, but with reality this has nothing to do :/
    for some reason you kept silent about lfg. :)
    also said nothing about specific observations made personally (did you see a living lone enemy elementalist in your zerg?) ;)
    your mathematics are numbers that have nothing to do with reality, but if you want to count, read% of the players playing for the class by going into squad www in pram time.

    @Dadnir.5038 And ANet base it's balance on metric whether players want it or not.

    I understand, but do not you think that in addition to the balance on the account, need to do your job?

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Savach.7219 said:

    replace "metric" with "theory", and I agree with you, but with reality this has nothing to do :/
    for some reason you kept silent about lfg. :)
    also said nothing about specific observations made personally (did you see a living lone enemy elementalist in your zerg?) ;)

    No. But you won't see a living lone necro in enemy Zerg as well. And if you do, you could also see a living ele in there cause the enemy Zerg is just bad.

    your mathematics are numbers that have nothing to do with reality, but if you want to count, read% of the players playing for the class by going into squad www in pram time.

    Yeah right in reality, necro is the corrupt bot and ele does 2-4times the dmg a necro can do in a Zerg.
    And while both go full offensive build, ele gets invulns and evades to protect it's life, while necro player can only hope, that his firebrand has hands to play with.

    And wanna talk about 1v1s? If equally skilled players would play against one another, and they were both good at the game, ele will win 95% of the fights.
    And why?

    Because ele isn't only good on paper. It's actually a good class in the game.

    @Dadnir.5038 And ANet base it's balance on metric whether players want it or not.

    I understand, but do not you think that in addition to the balance on the account, need to do your job?

  • @""Nimon.7840"

    I saw a lone necro in a zerge, personally. and more than once

    And while both go full offensive build, ele gets invulns and evades to protect it's life

    the necro apparently neglects evasions, and he does not need to worry so much for his life, with a huge amount of life and shields

    ..cause the enemy Zerg is just bad.

    to say that 40-50 people bad play as one badly too arrogant

    you are still for some reason you are silent about lfg. :)
    elementalists without support do not go to t4 Is it because all you said is a lie? since they are not self-sufficient..

    also did not object:

    Savach.7219 the number of necromancers of healers is huge, unlike elementalists, and they can be played in middle raid groups, which refutes your words that the necromancer has little ability to support both himself and others

  • Reh.5986Reh.5986 Member ✭✭

    Hey. Could we tone down the invulns and invuln heals a bit? We've got groups of warriors dancing around like clowns everywhere and rangers running 2 or 3 invulns. Thieves using ridiculous evade spin all over the place. We're getting to a point that's just stupid.

  • this is what we are trying to pay attention to

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Reh.5986 said:
    Hey. Could we tone down the invulns and invuln heals a bit? We've got groups of warriors dancing around like clowns everywhere and rangers running 2 or 3 invulns. Thieves using ridiculous evade spin all over the place. We're getting to a point that's just stupid.

    Those exist due Anet enforcing lots of aoe spam, that’s the reason there’s quite a lot of weird passives as well.

  • I'm still rather upset about the necro nerf. I've spent most of this month trying to make scourge viable in open-world again and it just can't even really keep up with base necro now. between the loss of shroud and the fact we can't even emergency barrier or fear ourselves without giving up 2 entire traits makes this whole spec into something only truly useable in stuff like raids or some fractals where the boss or mobs don't have a lot of movement. An open-world is just a no go though. While I kept my DPS numbers on golem and raids mostly the same the pure loss here is just not something you can do for open-world content unless you're in a squad or a party. Best thing I've managed to come up with is something I found suggested on another forum about just swapping to D/T and become almost solely a siphon melee'er which isn't a bad idea but it's not my style so I've started doing A/T and just circling in my shade, but while it works well enough the whole thing just sucks in general and I'm close to giving up on scourge as the chances of this getting fixed are looking more slim and if being a scourge in open world means becoming a melee main it'd be better to just swap back to reaper so you have a lot better chance of living. As the loss in overall lethality is very noticeable, and limiting inside shade radius makes kiting which is an absolute must much harder as avoiding all that CC becomes a trial of trying to stay in the kitten circle.

  • Do I understand correctly? you have problems in the open world? :3