[Feedback] New Drakkar Fight - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Feedback] New Drakkar Fight

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  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    The amount of misinformed and entitled individuals here is disheartening.
    Feedback is feedback, I guess.
    FYI - whenever a world boss fails, especially a dragon champion, something bad happens aside from not receiving loot. Like with Tequatl - a massive tidal wave will insta-down everyone in the vicinity then tendrils and fish head mines will spawn. The short pvp after failing to defeat Drakkar is within reason and is a nice touch to world-building flavor.

    The meta duration is in line for a world boss. Very lenient, even.
    Tequatl has 15 minutes plus 2 minutes for every phase. That's 21 minutes max.
    Both Shatterers have 15 minutes with no timer pauses but their pre-meta events can make them longer.

    I like the account-bound rare drops because they're the last bastion of hard-earned (or lucky) Fashion Wars statement that cannot be bought. Seeing a person decked-out in Sunless or Scion weapons is very very rare. This will make me put Drakkar to the priority list of things to do in PVE when I'm not preoccupied with other things.

    As for the fight itself, I have to say I'm quite disappointed with the lack of difficulty. Understandable given that it's a World Boss and its difficulty has to be in line with the rest. Then again, we have something like Triple Trouble still being done daily. I like that the Jhavi escort will give everyone participating in it enough mobs to max out all the Essence Manipulation colors so that nobody has to do it beforehand and then even more to top-up their duration during the fight. The Jhavi Shield Defense during phases is also a nice touch to keep the people that stayed/can't go to the mini bosses busy.

    All-in-all: Expectations met. Not disappointed, not excited.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cameron Rich.3905 said:

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    Well, I put up a commander tag in LFG just about an hour ago, and we rocked the new Drakkar meta with whoever showed up. The new fight is certainly a bit busier and less tedious, and to me, it actually seems a bit easier than before, but YMMV. The hardest part to me was the champs being tougher, which can really eat up the timer with less powerful groups. That and the visual noise, which is a long standing issue throughout the game.

    I'm happy to see more groups spinning up and able to coordinate their efforts to take down the boss. Since we released the changes 2 weeks after the fight went live initially, I'm not surprised to hear the feeling that it was easier - players have had some time to learn the mechanics and grow more comfortable with the fight. Nothing is ever as difficult as the first time through.

    Looking at our internal data, the participation rate, success rate, and time to complete for this event are pretty much exactly where we expected and wanted them to be. We're keeping a close eye on how these numbers change throughout the coming weeks, and combined with direct feedback, that will help inform our next steps. We have tools in place to make tweaks to balance if we feel it's necessary.

    Keep that feedback coming. Spicy, sweet or salty, as long as it's civil It's all extraordinarily helpful.

    The new changes are great and go a long way to making the fight more interesting.

    The only feedback I have is PLEASE do something to discourage people from hanging out on the ledge above the fight doing nothing for the "don't get hit" achievement (cant remember the name of it). Maybe spawn instakill storms on that ledge or provide an alternative way to return to the fight that allows you to lock the area away from those just trying to leech for an achievement.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blaeys.3102 said:
    The only feedback I have is PLEASE do something to discourage people from hanging out on the ledge above the fight doing nothing for the "don't get hit" achievement (cant remember the name of it). Maybe spawn instakill storms on that ledge or provide an alternative way to return to the fight that allows you to lock the area away from those just trying to leech for an achievement.

    Based on my experience yesterday with trying to get the Truly Nimble achieve, I think it's been stealth fixed. Took me three tries to get the achieve. The first two times, I tried the old tricks. Didn't work. The final successful attempt...

    • I used my staff mirage, who is my most elusive character and has long range.
    • I was actively in the event from start to finish, from escorting Jhavi all the way through the end.
    • I did reasonable damage in every phase of the event.
    • In each phase as Drakkar came out of the wall, I quickly placed three clones to ping Drakkar constantly, while I moved back to avoid the stomps and AOE.
    • When Drakkar's head went down for the whirlwind phase, then I moved in and unloaded my heavy stuff until he went back into the wall.
    • I went through the second champ portal, to make sure I got credit for one.
    • I did NOT get downed. Not sure if that makes a difference or not, but it might, so I was double careful.
    • I ended up finishing the event with four stacks left and got the achieve.

    Hope that helps somebody.

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    @Funky.4861 said:

    @Gamora.1584 said:
    I don't understand why the open world PvP in case the meta fails is such a dealbreaker for people. Can someone please explain? I honestly think that it's a brilliant idea, it fits the living world's story and theme.

    It's because the fail mechanic encourages trolls to fail the fight for 10-15 seconds of pvp. No-one is likely to announce in map chat that they will do the meta only to fail it, and bearing in mind the vast disparity in players builds/performance, the fight tends to get carried by the dps of the top 20%, meaning that 80% of players in the fight are being carried. Seeing as the fight is long and boring with tepid rewards, participation is not encouraged. On the other hand, the trolls would have to be entertaining their boredom for the duration of the fight until failure, for their 10 seconds of adrenaline. That is the toxic element, in that co-operation is not encouraged, but non-co-operation is punished. Negative rewards rarely give the desired outcome, at least to those of us with a conscience ^^

    It's not like the trolls can truly sabotage the fight by causing mechanics to fail. It's not like they can set off traps to CC the squad or give Drakar buffs. All they can do is AFK and do low DPS. As you said, if the fight is being carried by 20% or less of the group than what difference would a couple of extra afKers make? the answer is none.

    I know of only one way where a group of kitten, and it would have to be a pretty sizable group, could really cause the fight to fail but I won't say it here cause I don't to give anyone any ideas.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gamora.1584 said:
    I don't understand why the open world PvP in case the meta fails is such a dealbreaker for people. Can someone please explain? I honestly think that it's a brilliant idea, it fits the living world's story and theme.

    Have to agree it fits the situation and fits in with the story as well. This was a good addition to the event. And for those saying people will just stand around waiting till it fails, I think you will find that some this week as people want to see what that looks like but I doubt that it will much after that. Why wait for a 20 minute timer, you could have taken SMC or done a complete sPvP match in that time and had many more fights than the 30 seconds on combat the end translated to. Its doesn't reward you anything to fail so it already has negative incentive.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
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  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:

    @Blaeys.3102 said:
    The only feedback I have is PLEASE do something to discourage people from hanging out on the ledge above the fight doing nothing for the "don't get hit" achievement (cant remember the name of it). Maybe spawn instakill storms on that ledge or provide an alternative way to return to the fight that allows you to lock the area away from those just trying to leech for an achievement.

    Based on my experience yesterday with trying to get the Truly Nimble achieve, I think it's been stealth fixed. Took me three tries to get the achieve. The first two times, I tried the old tricks. Didn't work. The final successful attempt...

    • I used my staff mirage, who is my most elusive character and has long range.
    • I was actively in the event from start to finish, from escorting Jhavi all the way through the end.
    • I did reasonable damage in every phase of the event.
    • In each phase as Drakkar came out of the wall, I quickly placed three clones to ping Drakkar constantly, while I moved back to avoid the stomps and AOE.
    • When Drakkar's head went down for the whirlwind phase, then I moved in and unloaded my heavy stuff until he went back into the wall.
    • I went through the second champ portal, to make sure I got credit for one.
    • I did NOT get downed. Not sure if that makes a difference or not, but it might, so I was double careful.
    • I ended up finishing the event with four stacks left and got the achieve.

    Hope that helps somebody.

    This is definitely helpful. People like you deserve the achievement and title. It is the people who don't even jump into the last room - staying at the top of the tunnel for the entire fight that need to be addressed. It invalidates the achievement and, even worse, makes it harder to coordinate the champion phases of the fight because you don't know who is actually helping and who is planning to just stand and watch the rest of the group from the ledge.

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:

    @Blaeys.3102 said:
    The only feedback I have is PLEASE do something to discourage people from hanging out on the ledge above the fight doing nothing for the "don't get hit" achievement (cant remember the name of it). Maybe spawn instakill storms on that ledge or provide an alternative way to return to the fight that allows you to lock the area away from those just trying to leech for an achievement.

    Based on my experience yesterday with trying to get the Truly Nimble achieve, I think it's been stealth fixed. Took me three tries to get the achieve. The first two times, I tried the old tricks. Didn't work. The final successful attempt...

    • I used my staff mirage, who is my most elusive character and has long range.
    • I was actively in the event from start to finish, from escorting Jhavi all the way through the end.
    • I did reasonable damage in every phase of the event.
    • In each phase as Drakkar came out of the wall, I quickly placed three clones to ping Drakkar constantly, while I moved back to avoid the stomps and AOE.
    • When Drakkar's head went down for the whirlwind phase, then I moved in and unloaded my heavy stuff until he went back into the wall.
    • I went through the second champ portal, to make sure I got credit for one.
    • I did NOT get downed. Not sure if that makes a difference or not, but it might, so I was double careful.
    • I ended up finishing the event with four stacks left and got the achieve.

    Hope that helps somebody.

    Did it on my DH (all melee) with 13 stacks left and I'm not a pro player. It isn't that difficult once you know his attack pattern which is very predictable. Here is a summary of the walkthrough on the wiki. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defeat_Drakkar
    First room:
    Drakkar will emerge from the ice, fearing players (dodgeable) when doing so.
    Drakkar will roar and throw icy rocks around the room.
    Drakkar will then do stomp attacks, which can be jumped over.
    Drakkar will make a large cone-shaped AoE breath attack that Chills and freeze the ground. (You want to be close to him when you avoid this so you have time to postion yourself for his next attack)
    Drakkar will roar then jump to perform a large AoE that covers the entire chamber, pulsing damage and Chilled. Chilled freezing progressively the whole room apart the area under it. (There will be an expanding white line right under him starting from the wall moving towards the starting edge of the huge AoE. You want to time your dodge into this clear area just as the line reaches the start of the AoE) For some reason I kept getting hit if I dodged too early.
    Drakkar will then submerge itself into the ice, its shadow will show where it will pop up next

    Second room:
    Same as the first room execpt that after he does his big AoE he does the following attack.
    Drakkar will lower his head, and summon ice tornadoes rotating counter-clockwise that deal frequent damage throughout the chamber. There will also be a green AoE that appears where giant ice orbs will fall; being on the green circles will provide a buff that increases player damage. This is when you pull out your BIG "D" DPS

    Tip for those having issues with visual clutter, turn off all NPC and player names and don't join a squad (you can't hide squad player names). Just this cleared the screen up a ton. Turn off post-processing and make sure you have the effect LOD box check. With this done you should have no problems seeing all the tells and AoEs.

  • This is a huge disappointment. The entire fight is nothing but a DPS check for the map. Have enough people win. Have too few, lose. Scaling, if there is any, is woefully inadequate. There are few if any mechanics or interesting bits, just wail on everything with as much dps as possible for 30 min. I shudder to think what till happen when this map is less populated; I am already seeing a 99% failure rate with full populations on coordinated maps.

    The fight itself is boring. It's the same few attacks over and over broken up by a few CC stages and sub-bosses that are handled worse than the old silverwaste fight since you get a debuff, but it's not coordinated like silverwaste lanes. 90% of the time everyone goes to the first one and the whole fight stalls because everyone has the debuff and no one can go to the next subboss. Coordination helps a little, but on an open world map without a clear environmental setup like the silvberwastes, you still end up with huge groups for subboss 1 and tiny ones for 2 and 34 due to people not paying attention and expecting to win by just ailing on everything.

    Also the voice acting is some of the worst in the game ever. It's the same few lines over and over and over. Not even variations on the lines, it's the exact same one. By 10 min in you just want Jhavi to shut the hell up. Even the Mordremoth fight had more variation, because at least there the lines were said over and over in a different order, not one line over and over.

    Overall, for the first "world boss" in a while, it feels lackluster and lazy. It's like you heard people saying they just want to mindlessly wail on things and be rewarded and made just the.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Cameron Rich.3905 said:
    Additionally, Jhavi's shield in the intermission phase now provides protection from the storm (which deals constant damage if you're outside it), and allows you to go out and attack adds - but that protection only lasts a short time once you leave the shield, so you have to balance grabbing the buff with going after incoming enemies, or pulling them into the shield and damaging them down.

    The shield seems to push mobs out. Pretty far at that which makes the pulling somewhat pointless.

    With these changes, we specifically wanted players to feel punished for ignoring mechanics, while still allowing for a few people to be the "heroes" of the group and save their allies from certain death. Since this is an open world encounter, it's important to encourage coordination while maintaining accessibility, especially as we get further into this content's life span and more diverse player groups of varying skill levels tackle it.

    Unfortunately the more likely outcome is someone trying to perform those things, get downed then it snowballs into multiple downed instead because they've move away from the main group so people end up being caught out of position as it were.

    Also the only dangerous attack in the whole fight seems to be some sort of multi-hit attack that originates from the claw. If that attack is actually a result of missing the green circle then the game is not doing a great job of conveying that. This attack is not new either. Being seemingly randomly hit by a multi hit attack without a clear indication of what/where it is from isn't a great thing either.

    The incredibly inconsistent hitbox remains a huge annoyance for anyone trying to melee. Normally a moving target is fine because there is still the ground circle to indicate where it is but since this boss is implemented a prop that "feature" is lost. It is also less of an issue on Teq and the shatters since those are only horizontal position changes while on Drakkar it is vertical since it is on the wall. Does any of this matter? Maybe not since the event still completes successfully but the experience is definitely worse for it.

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    The scaling on champ2+3 doesnt seem to not work though? Or it really is because so many run to first champ, the first champ always takes 3-4 times as long as champ2 or champ3.
    A slight criticism, the green fields give a dmg buff, but drakkar always despawns after the green fields. Maybe change the timing slightly to give a longer burst phase?

    Not sure exactly what was going on but in the one I just did. 1st champ seems to have massive HP considering how long it took, 2nd champ seems like it got vaporized because people were back before I barely noticed they were gone while 3rd champ felt "normal" but I was in the 3rd group so that might have distorted the perception of how long it took.

  • Liston.9708Liston.9708 Member ✭✭✭

    99% failure on full coordinated maps? I have yet to see it fail. Closest was kil with @ 5 minutes on the timer.....

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Liston.9708 said:
    99% failure on full coordinated maps? I have yet to see it fail. Closest was kil with @ 5 minutes on the timer.....

    Same. I'm not disputing it can fail, but it def does not have a 99% failure rating and it hurts peoples feedback when they make up ridiculous stats to push a point

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Liston.9708 said:
    99% failure on full coordinated maps? I have yet to see it fail. Closest was kil with @ 5 minutes on the timer.....

    Same. I'm not disputing it can fail, but it def does not have a 99% failure rating and it hurts peoples feedback when they make up ridiculous stats to push a point

    I have never once seem it succeed. I only gave it 99% instead of 100% failure since I have heard of other people getting it to work. I have done it around twice a day since release and have never once downed him, before or after the changes. In fact, in every case he is still around 40% when times runs out; either second subboss is just finished or still going. I have never seen 3rd subboss, although how similar they are is another complaint about this fight. Never feels like the subbosses have anything to do with the lost spirits of the wild since they are all just ents.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Liston.9708 said:
    99% failure on full coordinated maps? I have yet to see it fail. Closest was kil with @ 5 minutes on the timer.....

    For me at least its sitting at 3 out of 12 trys. Both have failed due to the timer running out.

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    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cameron Rich.3905 said:
    With these changes, we specifically wanted players to feel punished for ignoring mechanics, while still allowing for a few people to be the "heroes" of the group and save their allies from certain death. Since this is an open world encounter, it's important to encourage coordination while maintaining accessibility, especially as we get further into this content's life span and more diverse player groups of varying skill levels tackle it.

    I think you're being somewhat romantic here. The reality is that you have a number of players who have a clue about what's going on in the fight and what they're doing, then you have some afk'ers that are just standing around and a good number of people who just whack stuff mostly with skill 1 and have no idea what's going on or can't be bothered. They just want to pew pew and win.

    Those who know what they're doing already will feel punished for being stuck with "noobs" and are not punished for not knowing the mechanics.
    The afk'ers won't feel punished by that last bit clearly cause they just afk and take whatever results there.
    Those who just do whatever and/or have no idea will feel that extra punishment but won't know or learn why most of the time.

    Also once you know this is there, you know how to avoid it the next time. I find your notion admirable but not realistic therefore. So far I've done this fight about 6 times or so since the changes and the group wins when it's a big group and the group fails when it's smaller. It's kind of disheartening to see already a few minutes into the fight that you're not going to make it as a group when you still have 20 minutes to go.

    What I've learned is that I better do this at prime time because then you have a better chance of getting a big group. I'm just really not convinced this approach will get more people to learn the tactics. I think the people who fail to learn the tactics will continue to do so because they're not interested in that. So I don't think I share your optimism in that.

    That's just my view on it from what I've experienced with other players, also in other games. More and more people just want to pew pew and win. It's the casual approach that brought them here, which is fine, but I think it's a helluva thing for you guys to make content that appeals to multiple player types because they are so far apart and your class/combat system even reinforces that gap by design. You haven't made it easy on yourselves in that respect.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭

    Why does this boss destroy minion builds. We shouldn't have to change builds right in front of a world boss.... I just realized this when I did this on my Necromancer. :-1:

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Liston.9708 said:
    99% failure on full coordinated maps? I have yet to see it fail. Closest was kil with @ 5 minutes on the timer.....

    Same. I'm not disputing it can fail, but it def does not have a 99% failure rating and it hurts peoples feedback when they make up ridiculous stats to push a point

    I have never once seem it succeed. I only gave it 99% instead of 100% failure since I have heard of other people getting it to work. I have done it around twice a day since release and have never once downed him, before or after the changes. In fact, in every case he is still around 40% when times runs out; either second subboss is just finished or still going. I have never seen 3rd subboss, although how similar they are is another complaint about this fight. Never feels like the subbosses have anything to do with the lost spirits of the wild since they are all just ents.

    In a dozen attempts (including an early hours run which finished with 15mins left on the clock), I've never seen it come close to failing. I can't really comment on why you see so many fails, but that is extraordinary bad luck to fail 22 times - since in a full map, it is a simple dps zerg race.

    You are def taxiing into an advertised map ahead of schedule right? 22 fails in a row and also never seeing all 3 champs is somewhat strange..

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Why does this boss destroy minion builds. We shouldn't have to change builds right in front of a world boss.... I just realized this when I did this on my Necromancer. :-1:

    and we shouldn't have to put up with your minions but we do.

  • ZolracAtrox.2908ZolracAtrox.2908 Member ✭✭
    edited February 15, 2020

    (Personal opinion)The problem that I see in this boss, is the afk/basic spam people.

  • @Josiah.2967 said:
    Why does this boss destroy minion builds. We shouldn't have to change builds right in front of a world boss.... I just realized this when I did this on my Necromancer. :-1:

    'cause a lot of minionmancers are afk/passive people, and this boss requires a lot of dps

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZolracAtrox.2908 said:
    (Personal opinion)The problem that I see in this boss, is the afk/basic spam people.

    And my view is that the changes to the fight made that worse instead of better because now the people who do try their best are being punished.

    Before the changes the fight was easier to do and some people complained about it because they felt it was too easy, but it was doable even with the afk/basic spam crowd that you will have regardless. The only thing that really changed is that with smaller groups the fight will now fail and in larger groups it's fine even though you still have the afk/basic spammers there. So how does this improve the situation? It's not like suddenly people will go learn the mechanics, they will blame the group size and be done with it.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Just ended my daily Drakkar Experience. I left with a handful of loot, sold it and got the costs back that i needed to port out of the cave. Yes. Im skrittish in my heart. Im one of the bad people that likes loot too. I know. Fighting Drakkar is only about fun, the awesome experience, advanced end-game tactics and the minimal chance to get the ascended chest.

    Than i recognized 1 piece (ONE) of Crystallized Karma in my pocket. (from Karmic Empowerment). When im doing the Deathbranded Shatterer i leave some aoes here and there and at the end of the fight theres around 100 pieces of Crystallized Karma in my filthy greedy pocket.

    Theres one word i read every time fighting Drakkar... BORING. You PewPew the Dragons Paw, jump around, 111111 Champions which every braindead ghoul can kill w/o moving. The cc bar of Drakkar (Drrrrakkarbar!!!!... sounds good) is no challenge at all. Never saw people fail at this.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just got out of a failed Drakkar.
    Had about 4 to 6 AFK people waiting beyond the fight range, scaling it up and waiting for the PvP finish.
    For the small mid-day group that we had, that was about a quarter to a third of the people not doing anything.

    Many alts! Handle it!

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  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rauderi.8706 said:
    Just got out of a failed Drakkar.
    Had about 4 to 6 AFK people waiting beyond the fight range, scaling it up and waiting for the PvP finish.
    For the small mid-day group that we had, that was about a quarter to a third of the people not doing anything.

    4-6 people who afked instead of helped probably wouldnt have been much help anyways? I mean if theyd rather not play than jump in to try and even do the bare minimum of damage..

    Also, so far as i know unless they actively attack Drakkar they dont scale it. Unless the wiki is wrong and or they changed the scaling mechanic to make all players around an event even those -not- participating scale the event.

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    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nidome.1365 said:
    I had a meta fail today because too many people were standing around "Bored under javi shield because no gate buff" instead of killing the spawning mobs. About three of us were trying to kill the mobs while the rest just stood around under the shield. The mobs destroyed the shield and the meta failed.

    The other thing I noticed was that too many people don't seem to know and/or understand what 'cc is. Anet already have a dodge tutorial, perhaps they should add a 'cc tutorial as well and block people from entering high level maps until they have completed it?

    Maybe they know what cc is, but were just waiting for the PVP phase after the fail?

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  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2020

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @Nidome.1365 said:
    I had a meta fail today because too many people were standing around "Bored under javi shield because no gate buff" instead of killing the spawning mobs. About three of us were trying to kill the mobs while the rest just stood around under the shield. The mobs destroyed the shield and the meta failed.

    The other thing I noticed was that too many people don't seem to know and/or understand what 'cc is. Anet already have a dodge tutorial, perhaps they should add a 'cc tutorial as well and block people from entering high level maps until they have completed it?

    Maybe they know what cc is, but were just waiting for the PVP phase after the fail?

    There is that risk for sure. There's likely also a lot of players who haven't finished their mastery or didnt join the escort phase to stack it. And it's the mastery that is most essential for the cc phase.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @Nidome.1365 said:
    I had a meta fail today because too many people were standing around "Bored under javi shield because no gate buff" instead of killing the spawning mobs. About three of us were trying to kill the mobs while the rest just stood around under the shield. The mobs destroyed the shield and the meta failed.

    The other thing I noticed was that too many people don't seem to know and/or understand what 'cc is. Anet already have a dodge tutorial, perhaps they should add a 'cc tutorial as well and block people from entering high level maps until they have completed it?

    Maybe they know what cc is, but were just waiting for the PVP phase after the fail?

    There is that risk for sure. There's likely also a lot of players who haven't finished their mastery or didnt join the escort phase to stack it. And it's the mastery that is most essential for the cc phase.

    Yup, ive done the Drakkar fight quite a bit without having any of the mastery skills stacked up so i have no CC ability. Also the rest of the CC i can bring is not even able to be seen moving the bar...

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Another fail. Took 20 people 15 minutes to move that bloated HP bar to 75%
    Not that it mattered, because Boneskinner bugged, didn't show up, and all the timers stopped. Those who went into the raven gate had to kill themselves to get out.

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • had Drakkar fail today, because the first raven's gate phase took ages, after the first breakbar took ages. The time lost there was never recovered.

    There are two problems:

    a) people who think that pressing 1 is enough
    b) people who think that cc is something they do not need to do.

    there is another general problem haunting the whole game:
    idiots pushing mobs out of the melee group with knockback.

    but at least those people are not a problem during Drakkar.

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    had Drakkar fail today, because the first raven's gate phase took ages, after the first breakbar took ages. The time lost there was never recovered.

    There are two problems:

    a) people who think that pressing 1 is enough
    b) people who think that cc is something they do not need to do.

    there is another general problem haunting the whole game:
    idiots pushing mobs out of the melee group with knockback.

    but at least those people are not a problem during Drakkar.

    And how many of those people do you think there are? Cause if this is a big group then it's a major group of customers for this game.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    had Drakkar fail today, because the first raven's gate phase took ages, after the first breakbar took ages. The time lost there was never recovered.

    There are two problems:

    a) people who think that pressing 1 is enough
    b) people who think that cc is something they do not need to do.

    there is another general problem haunting the whole game:
    idiots pushing mobs out of the melee group with knockback.

    but at least those people are not a problem during Drakkar.

    From the whole whooping 2 drakkars I've done (one prepatch and one after, both successfull) that looks to be the same reason as always - too many people scaling the mobs. It's the same thing as in every other event. 5 competent players with decent dps and CC will kill champions faster than 30 with mediocre dps that barely understand what CC is. And of course, everyone rushes the first gate.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    had Drakkar fail today, because the first raven's gate phase took ages, after the first breakbar took ages. The time lost there was never recovered.

    There are two problems:

    a) people who think that pressing 1 is enough
    b) people who think that cc is something they do not need to do.

    there is another general problem haunting the whole game:
    idiots pushing mobs out of the melee group with knockback.

    but at least those people are not a problem during Drakkar.

    From the whole whooping 2 drakkars I've done (one prepatch and one after, both successfull) that looks to be the same reason as always - too many people scaling the mobs. It's the same thing as in every other event. 5 competent players with decent dps and CC will kill champions faster than 30 with mediocre dps that barely understand what CC is. And of course, everyone rushes the first gate.

    My feeling though is that the mediocre or worse players are the vast majority of the player base. And there are things that ArenaNet could do to improve that situation but this isn't it.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZolracAtrox.2908 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Why does this boss destroy minion builds. We shouldn't have to change builds right in front of a world boss.... I just realized this when I did this on my Necromancer. :-1:

    'cause a lot of minionmancers are afk/passive people, and this boss requires a lot of dps

    This. MANY necros use their minions as a crutch instead of a tool, and Drakkar's constant AOE erases minions quickly, leaving the minion masters having to rely on their own relatively low DPS compared to non-minion builds. Every build has its strong and weak points; big AOE heavy bosses are the weak point for minion builds. As the Kodan would say, balance...

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2020

    @Jimbru.6014 said:

    @ZolracAtrox.2908 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Why does this boss destroy minion builds. We shouldn't have to change builds right in front of a world boss.... I just realized this when I did this on my Necromancer. :-1:

    'cause a lot of minionmancers are afk/passive people, and this boss requires a lot of dps

    This. MANY necros use their minions as a crutch instead of a tool, and Drakkar's constant AOE erases minions quickly, leaving the minion masters having to rely on their own relatively low DPS compared to non-minion builds. Every build has its strong and weak points; big AOE heavy bosses are the weak point for minion builds. As the Kodan would say, balance...

    Room for thought... The most powerful Power DPS Reaper build uses 3 minions... This shouldn't kill minions that live through raids.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    im satisfied with boss as it is. pls dont do more changes.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @Nidome.1365 said:
    I had a meta fail today because too many people were standing around "Bored under javi shield because no gate buff" instead of killing the spawning mobs. About three of us were trying to kill the mobs while the rest just stood around under the shield. The mobs destroyed the shield and the meta failed.

    The other thing I noticed was that too many people don't seem to know and/or understand what 'cc is. Anet already have a dodge tutorial, perhaps they should add a 'cc tutorial as well and block people from entering high level maps until they have completed it?

    Maybe they know what cc is, but were just waiting for the PVP phase after the fail?

    There is that risk for sure. There's likely also a lot of players who haven't finished their mastery or didnt join the escort phase to stack it. And it's the mastery that is most essential for the cc phase.

    Yup, ive done the Drakkar fight quite a bit without having any of the mastery skills stacked up so i have no CC ability. Also the rest of the CC i can bring is not even able to be seen moving the bar...

    I just bring rocks although I carry those around for other stuff as well not just for this fight. Having a literal pile of CCs with no cooldown is useful in many places.

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gehenna.3625 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    had Drakkar fail today, because the first raven's gate phase took ages, after the first breakbar took ages. The time lost there was never recovered.

    There are two problems:

    a) people who think that pressing 1 is enough
    b) people who think that cc is something they do not need to do.

    there is another general problem haunting the whole game:
    idiots pushing mobs out of the melee group with knockback.

    but at least those people are not a problem during Drakkar.

    From the whole whooping 2 drakkars I've done (one prepatch and one after, both successfull) that looks to be the same reason as always - too many people scaling the mobs. It's the same thing as in every other event. 5 competent players with decent dps and CC will kill champions faster than 30 with mediocre dps that barely understand what CC is. And of course, everyone rushes the first gate.

    My feeling though is that the mediocre or worse players are the vast majority of the player base. And there are things that ArenaNet could do to improve that situation but this isn't it.

    It's not just a feeling. The vast majority of players are of the extra casual sort who don't have proper builds and don't care to learn how to DPS or apply boons properly. Many are so oblivious to what is going on that they will stand and die in the middle of a big red pulsating circle and then ask what happened.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @Nidome.1365 said:
    I had a meta fail today because too many people were standing around "Bored under javi shield because no gate buff" instead of killing the spawning mobs. About three of us were trying to kill the mobs while the rest just stood around under the shield. The mobs destroyed the shield and the meta failed.

    The other thing I noticed was that too many people don't seem to know and/or understand what 'cc is. Anet already have a dodge tutorial, perhaps they should add a 'cc tutorial as well and block people from entering high level maps until they have completed it?

    Maybe they know what cc is, but were just waiting for the PVP phase after the fail?

    There is that risk for sure. There's likely also a lot of players who haven't finished their mastery or didnt join the escort phase to stack it. And it's the mastery that is most essential for the cc phase.

    Yup, ive done the Drakkar fight quite a bit without having any of the mastery skills stacked up so i have no CC ability. Also the rest of the CC i can bring is not even able to be seen moving the bar...

    This is why you max out your Essence masteries while escorting Jhavi to the fight. The lasers have a strong CC effect against Drakkar.

  • Friday.7864Friday.7864 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm afraid this meta lasts way too long.
    Combine that with a decent chance to fail and people will think thrice if they're willing to risk half an hour for zero returns.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    my comments:
    for open wrold word boss I need special set, special build, and special class ?? What happen ? I don't believe that everyone say what we go right direction.

    Also I am sure that people who say "that ok, nice WB" is do trolling and nothing more.

    Someone say "prepare people for raid". Oh, people who want go raid - go raids. Who don't want - don't go.

    Addeded "winter Infusion" ... who need this ? sad. May be better add something more valuable ? whit more rare drop ? like bee infusion?

    why I think so? I was try do it at weekend many times. Also attract members from guild. result 0 times killed.
    At last try no one from my guild go try it. People say "what we reason go if it will be failed again and again??"

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    my comments:
    for open wrold word boss I need special set, special build, and special class ?? What happen ? I don't believe that everyone say what we go right direction.

    Also I am sure that people who say "that ok, nice WB" is do trolling and nothing more.

    Someone say "prepare people for raid". Oh, people who want go raid - go raids. Who don't want - don't go.

    Addeded "winter Infusion" ... who need this ? sad. May be better add something more valuable ? whit more rare drop ? like bee infusion?

    why I think so? I was try do it at weekend many times. Also attract members from guild. result 0 times killed.
    At last try no one from my guild go try it. People say "what we reason go if it will be failed again and again??"

    You do not need any special class, build or skills. It’s just a normal big standard boss fight. At best it is useful to max your masteries.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bassdeff.1895 said:

    @Gehenna.3625 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    had Drakkar fail today, because the first raven's gate phase took ages, after the first breakbar took ages. The time lost there was never recovered.

    There are two problems:

    a) people who think that pressing 1 is enough
    b) people who think that cc is something they do not need to do.

    there is another general problem haunting the whole game:
    idiots pushing mobs out of the melee group with knockback.

    but at least those people are not a problem during Drakkar.

    From the whole whooping 2 drakkars I've done (one prepatch and one after, both successfull) that looks to be the same reason as always - too many people scaling the mobs. It's the same thing as in every other event. 5 competent players with decent dps and CC will kill champions faster than 30 with mediocre dps that barely understand what CC is. And of course, everyone rushes the first gate.

    My feeling though is that the mediocre or worse players are the vast majority of the player base. And there are things that ArenaNet could do to improve that situation but this isn't it.

    It's not just a feeling. The vast majority of players are of the extra casual sort who don't have proper builds and don't care to learn how to DPS or apply boons properly. Many are so oblivious to what is going on that they will stand and die in the middle of a big red pulsating circle and then ask what happened.

    Well that makes it an interesting, because the game does cater a lot to casuals, except when it comes to character builds. Considering the content, I think the character builds including weapon choice, stat choice, spec choice, trait choice etc. it seems that it's rather unnecessarily complex compared to the simplicity of the actual combat and player base.

    One of the things I never understood in this game for example is the huge impact of which weapons you choose. So for flavour purposes I may want to play a staff and scepter/focus on my necro but then it would mean that that will destroy my dps output, especially in combination with the spec choices. And a lot of it is micromanaging buffs/boons and durations in 1.x second durations and such. That just seems such a crazy approach for a game that is otherwise so casual oriented and then punishes people for caring about flavour and punishing other players by association in groups.

    It just seems entirely superfluous just like many choices that aren't actually choices when it comes down to it. Like most stat sets should be ignored if you want to do decent DPS, so why do we even have them?

    And you see, you can blame players for not wanting to learn "proper" builds and such but the game shouldn't be made to appeal to casual players and then make the character build system so convoluted that people get lost too easily or simply don't care about it cause they don't or because they make choices based on what they like. The difference in DPS output is also too large between such players and "pro" players. I can get that being a good player should result in a better output but the range is so big in this game and it caters to a minority of players so it's never gonna get better like this.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • blp.3489blp.3489 Member ✭✭

    Some things I have encountered/noticed:

    • Yesterday after the pvp following a failed Drakkar I was left "in-combat" and therefore not able to mount to leave or to waypoint, I had to logout in order to get out of combat, and I didn't attack anyone, I just res'ed a few people. There's that 8 minute condition that stops you from entering gates, but even after that expired I was still "in-combat". It was the second time that happened to me.
    • I also noticed that trying to res other players is punished hard in this fight due to the myriad aoe and shock waves etc., I would end up downed myself if I tried to wait for the whole res.
    • In the mob shield phase every time I pulled something to the shield it would almost immediately be pushed away, does the shield do that or was it players?
    • I have never been able to open the big sphere thing that appears with the rewards, is there a condition you have to fulfill for that?
    • With the green circles/dropping orbs, does it make any difference how many people go in the circle or is one enough? I.e. should I go to the circle if there is already at least one player there?
  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @blp.3489 said:

    • I have never been able to open the big sphere thing that appears with the rewards, is there a condition you have to fulfill for that?

    The only things that appear are;

    • The big ice chest which is auto opened if you have auto loot on (once a day)
    • The 3 chests with the coloured bubbles require t2 of your mastery before you can open manually

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • TallBarr.2184TallBarr.2184 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @blp.3489 said:

    • I have never been able to open the big sphere thing that appears with the rewards, is there a condition you have to fulfill for that?

    The only things that appear are;

    • The big ice chest which is auto opened if you have auto loot on (once a day)
    • The 3 chests with the coloured bubbles require t2 of your mastery before you can open manually

    The big icy chest is lootable if you come on a different character

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TallBarr.2184 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @blp.3489 said:

    • I have never been able to open the big sphere thing that appears with the rewards, is there a condition you have to fulfill for that?

    The only things that appear are;

    • The big ice chest which is auto opened if you have auto loot on (once a day)
    • The 3 chests with the coloured bubbles require t2 of your mastery before you can open manually

    The big icy chest is lootable if you come on a different character

    Ah that is useful to know. i'd heard it was once per account. Thanks

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2020

    @Gehenna.3625 said:

    @Bassdeff.1895 said:

    @Gehenna.3625 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    had Drakkar fail today, because the first raven's gate phase took ages, after the first breakbar took ages. The time lost there was never recovered.

    There are two problems:

    a) people who think that pressing 1 is enough
    b) people who think that cc is something they do not need to do.

    there is another general problem haunting the whole game:
    idiots pushing mobs out of the melee group with knockback.

    but at least those people are not a problem during Drakkar.

    From the whole whooping 2 drakkars I've done (one prepatch and one after, both successfull) that looks to be the same reason as always - too many people scaling the mobs. It's the same thing as in every other event. 5 competent players with decent dps and CC will kill champions faster than 30 with mediocre dps that barely understand what CC is. And of course, everyone rushes the first gate.

    My feeling though is that the mediocre or worse players are the vast majority of the player base. And there are things that ArenaNet could do to improve that situation but this isn't it.

    It's not just a feeling. The vast majority of players are of the extra casual sort who don't have proper builds and don't care to learn how to DPS or apply boons properly. Many are so oblivious to what is going on that they will stand and die in the middle of a big red pulsating circle and then ask what happened.

    Well that makes it an interesting, because the game does cater a lot to casuals, except when it comes to character builds. Considering the content, I think the character builds including weapon choice, stat choice, spec choice, trait choice etc. it seems that it's rather unnecessarily complex compared to the simplicity of the actual combat and player base.

    One of the things I never understood in this game for example is the huge impact of which weapons you choose. So for flavour purposes I may want to play a staff and scepter/focus on my necro but then it would mean that that will destroy my dps output, especially in combination with the spec choices. And a lot of it is micromanaging buffs/boons and durations in 1.x second durations and such. That just seems such a crazy approach for a game that is otherwise so casual oriented and then punishes people for caring about flavour and punishing other players by association in groups.

    It just seems entirely superfluous just like many choices that aren't actually choices when it comes down to it. Like most stat sets should be ignored if you want to do decent DPS, so why do we even have them?

    And you see, you can blame players for not wanting to learn "proper" builds and such but the game shouldn't be made to appeal to casual players and then make the character build system so convoluted that people get lost too easily or simply don't care about it cause they don't or because they make choices based on what they like. The difference in DPS output is also too large between such players and "pro" players. I can get that being a good player should result in a better output but the range is so big in this game and it caters to a minority of players so it's never gonna get better like this.

    If the options are there to either bring more DPS or Support and the player chooses not to use them then that is the player's fault. This is a multiplayer game, the way you play affects other people's experience and Drakkar is a fine example of that. Do you want to be a burden and have people carry you through or do you want to bring something worth while to the fight and have the satisfaction of pulling your own weight? If you want to bring something worthwhile to the group then you need a half decent build and half decent rotation. It doesn't have to be meta, you just need to make sure there is some synergy between you trait and weapons/utilities, armor that isn't all toughness/vitality, and know how to press something other than 1.

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bassdeff.1895 said:
    If the options are there to either bring more DPS or Support and the player chooses not to use them then that is the player's fault.

    Not if the game caters to casuals and makes it largely unnecesary to dig into the skills and traits.

    This is a multiplayer game, the way you play affects other people's experience and Drakkar is a fine example of that.

    Since most of the game's content can be soloed, that's not an argument. You know just as I do, that most world bosses are snooze fests that can be beaten just by being there long enough. In other words the game doesn't require you to be better, so why would you?

    Do you want to be a burden and have people carry you through or do you want to bring something worth while to the fight and have the satisfaction of pulling your own weight?

    A lot of people just want to have fun. They're not interested in complex systems and "pulling their weight". That sort of thing should be kept in actual structured group content like fractals, raids and strike missions.

    If you want to bring something worthwhile to the group then you need a half decent build and half decent rotation.

    But not everybody does or cares about that, especially if it's an annoying build system.

    It doesn't have to be meta, you just need to make sure there is some synergy between you trait and weapons/utilities, armor that isn't all toughness/vitality, and know how to press something other than 1.

    It doesn't have to be anything. It's open world content and ArenaNet just needs to make a decision on how they view it. There are a few world bosses that are hard. Drakkar is not such one. If the group is big enough the fight will succeed. It's just smaller groups that fail now.

    Listen, this game caters to casuals more than anything. You're not going to change the casual player. A world boss is open world content and you will have a lot of casuals there. In the end it's clear to me that GW1 had a much more effective build system also because it was a LOT more straightforward. Just look at the irony of this game catering to casuals and then you see the upcoming patch notes for class changes with things like durations being changed from 1.2 seconds to 0.9 seconds. That level of micro management of skills and traits doesn't actually fit in a game that caters to casuals.

    I would agree with you in other games on most of your points. But because this game is mostly casual, the character build system is just way too complex for what this game is and you're not going to get casuals on board with this. Everything you mention in your post simply doesn't make sense because GW2 is casual oriented and open world content isn't really group content...it's zerg content. If you were talking about raids, sure, but don't expect casuals to even set foot in there...as we know ArenaNet themselves have said that raids are for a very small group of people. They added strike missions to be a stepping stone to raids but the problem is the build system with all the stuff like weapon choices, traits, stat sets, etc. That's the first barrier and everything after that is irrelevant as long as you don't take down the first barrier.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • I tried to do the event a couple of times, but since the map was not full it failed. Each time took about 30 mins so when anet scaled it up it now does punish people who can't fill up a map to do it. :/

  • Also at the end of the event that finally succeeded, I ressed some people and right when I was about to loot the chests they disappeared. That was not cool at all.