ANET balance team should be required to play each class for a day for 2 weeks in pvp. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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ANET balance team should be required to play each class for a day for 2 weeks in pvp.

Kickpuncher.8109Kickpuncher.8109 Member ✭✭✭

Cause it sure feels like ANET balance team is solely going off of metrics and numbers and not playing their own game.

<13

Comments

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:
    Cause it sure feels like ANET balance team is solely going off of metrics and numbers and not playing their own game.

    While losing time playing the game if you can ask the "knowledgeable community" what needs a nerf and what needs a buff.

    The degenerate

  • Kickpuncher.8109Kickpuncher.8109 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:
    Cause it sure feels like ANET balance team is solely going off of metrics and numbers and not playing their own game.

    While losing time playing the game if you can ask the "knowledgeable community" what needs a nerf and what needs a buff.

    LMAO the pvp community has been shelling out information vehemently, non-stop, since the patch preview was shown with information and nothing can really come of it. I mean people called Necro and firebrand being OP BEFORE the new patch dropped and Anet did kitten about it. Plus the information on the forums paints a pretty different picture from what actually happens in practice when you pvp.

    So yeah, that is why. First hand knowledge > Second hand forum knowledge

    Plus I don't think it is outlandish to request that the people balancing the game actually play it

  • Kickpuncher.8109Kickpuncher.8109 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2020

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:
    Cause it sure feels like ANET balance team is solely going off of metrics and numbers and not playing their own game.

    While losing time playing the game if you can ask the "knowledgeable community" what needs a nerf and what needs a buff.

    LMAO the pvp community has been shelling out information vehemently, non-stop, since the patch preview was shown with information and nothing can really come of it. I mean people called Necro and firebrand being OP BEFORE the new patch dropped and Anet did kitten about it. Plus the information on the forums paints a pretty different picture from what actually happens in practice when you pvp.

    So yeah, that is why. First hand knowledge > Second hand forum knowledge

    Plus I don't think it is outlandish to request that the people balancing the game actually play it

    Pretty arrogant for you to assume they don't already do that & since you question it, that such a tiny amount of time would actually achieve anything.

    You think spending 10 days, 8 hours a day pvping would be a waste of time? What? I don't see "80 hours of experience" being a small amount of time. I mean it is their literal job. Seems like they would learn a lot, or learn even more 'if they are already doing that'.

    And yeah it doesn't feel like the balance team plays their own game. There is so much overlooked and a so much that goes contrary to their 'standards' in what they say. I mean you have a vast number of people saying what everyone already knows on the forums yet the ANET balance team seems to have their head in the sand and be totally disconnected from what the reality of the game is at times.

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭✭

    Before they change my build, a dev should load up my class, and beat me in a private arena 1v1, I'm no pro, but I'll bet my account I'll murrdurr them every time, what would it matter to lose, the game is unplayable now, and to beat me they need to know how the class works.
    This patch wasn't even based on numbers, most of the changes are arbitrary numbers inconsistent with any form of balance, and are obviously as bad on paper as in game.

  • Kickpuncher.8109Kickpuncher.8109 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2020

    @Tayga.3192 said:
    Afaik CMC is a pretty good ele main?

    Just leaves 7 other classes they should be familiar with.

    Balance team should know their game inside and out if they want to stop being ineffectual at their jobs. But then again that is some common sense stuff right there. You should know the information about the the thing you are wanting to manipulate if you want to get proper outcomes and stop shooting in the dark. Hurr

  • Kickpuncher.8109Kickpuncher.8109 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xca.9721 said:
    You do realize the big balance patch was only the first step and was (mostly) meant to decrease the powercreep overall? Of course not everything is perfect, there is still broken kitten that needs to be looked at, but it was a patch that Anet can follow up on the following weeks/months.

    Really? Cause to me it looked like business as usual. A new patch that feels like it is based on metrics and not actual gameplay. A patch that drops and busts up a bunch of things and creates a new flavor of the month. This is the same story we've had for like 4 years now.

    It is literally the same thing but now with less power coefficients, more condis. Nothing really got fixed cause everything is still broken.

  • memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭

    So here's the problem, OP.
    Yes, I rarely see dev tags in PvP, at least in NA servers PvP Lobby. I'm also aware they can turn off their tags, too, but like... why would you conceal it unless you're going into an undercover thing which is bizarre but it can serve its purposes I suppose. I doubt they spend 2 games a day in PvP conquest. I really do. That being said, the ones that do shouldn't necessarily need to play all the classes, but should definitely have played enough (i.e., 100) games on a class to know what seems really OP in terms of that class and where it severely underperforms. The fact that ranger slipped through the nerfs seemingly unaffected really makes me question the quality control of patches.

    What also makes me have little faith in the abiltiy to balance is that in addition to the direct damage and condi/boon duration nerfs, they increased a lot of traitline and utility skill cooldowns which makes no sense because of how drastic a change the gameplay will experience following such nerfs.

    I know the forum warriors like to meme about me all the time, but they continuously ignore some of what I've got to say. One doesn't simply take away all the damage Prime Light Beam does and expect people to use it 25% of the time evenly along with the other elite skills accessible to holosmith. If they're looking for balanced usage, they really did themselves ugly because now Prime Light Beam only has CC application. Heal Turret is also somewhat crippled by its long 30-second cooldown. Elixir H and Medkit have pretty much emerged as the stronger healing skills now because of their low cooldowns and greater healing power than Heal Turret and especially Coolant Blast (which had its cooldown NERFED to 25 seconds, when it really struggled to be competitive vs. the other engi healing skills).

    The lack of stability across all professions, too, is stifling and slowing down games. Whereas you think you've bled someone off node, They start getting ressed, and two people who are DPS classes can't counter many professions' single player revive power. It's pretty bad.

    That and burn damage is still too dramatic from at least weavers and possibly guards, too. I recall a 1v1 I had the other day with a weaver, and I received 160 hits of burning for over 73K damage.... and btw, that was with Medkit cleansing, healing, Prismatic Singularity, sigil of cleansing.... you may be saying to yourselves, "Oh, holo shouldn't engage in that fight." How about weavers shouldn't be able to do cast burning which 5+ seconds of duration with Sage Amulet on? The condi damage is bursty, which is contrary to the intent of the developers, which, while I am criticizing it for being a bad change in the first place, should at least have consistency in its philosophy. Now the condi AoE burst classes and the super bunkers are the ones that win and it's made the game the least fun to play in the 2 years I've been playing it.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    They rarely play or don’t play for the most part. It also doesn’t help if they are bad (not to be mean) but if they don’t understand how to play they are going to gain much from play testing. I worked there and all I will say is PvP/WvW is just about the lowest priority for the company, not that this is a news flash.

    The most successful games hire/compensate in some way the professional players to test their games.

    A PTR would also go a long way.

  • Kickpuncher.8109Kickpuncher.8109 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    They rarely play or don’t play for the most part. It also doesn’t help if they are bad (not to be mean) but if they don’t understand how to play they are going to gain much from play testing. I worked there and all I will say is PvP/WvW is just about the lowest priority for the company, not that this is a news flash.

    The most successful games hire/compensate in some way the professional players to test their games.

    A PTR would also go a long way.

    Well kitten

  • Sunshine.5014Sunshine.5014 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:

    @Sunshine.5014 said:
    Turning on ANet tag doesn't help with testing. In fact, it makes testing much harder. Everyone is gonna just target the ANet player, regardless of whether that will help or lose them the game.

    CMC is a top tier player, let him do his job. So far the results have been encouraging.

    I dunno man. Yeah these recent patches have been said to be 'A step in the right direction!" But to me it is just the status quo. New patch came out, even with the hotfix, 2-3 classes dominate the meta. And it will be that way until the next patch drops and 2-3 more classes are the new flavor of the month.

    Just because the title of the 'Big Balance Patch' has a new name, it is essentially just resuming the cycle that ANET was already on. I'm not going to believe it until it see it cause to me.

    It was just another patch, another flavor of the month class picks for a month, and a new cycle for it to start all over again in the next patch.

    I'll believe it when I see it cause it has been 4 years of the same kitten.

    It's a stretch to say it's 4 years of the same thing. The big patched landed only 2 weeks ago. And they have another patch to shave FB, Necro, Condi Rev just last week. That's unprecedented.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2020

    With vids like nioh 2 and devision 2 releasing this week doubt the devs are gonna be playing much gw2 for the next while 😯 lol just kidding relax.

  • Kickpuncher.8109Kickpuncher.8109 Member ✭✭✭

    Play your own kitten game ANET, jesus.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:
    Afaik CMC is a pretty good ele main?

    That explains a lot of stuff.

    The degenerate

  • Kickpuncher.8109Kickpuncher.8109 Member ✭✭✭

    Daily reminder that ANET should probably play pvp if they wish to become knowledgeable on the subject.

    Metrics =/= game feel ANET

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2020

    I'd like anet to play thief a lot see how its a really kitten idea to take away stealth and all teleports.

    All people who play thief know that would be a bad idea.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Ghostof Luzifer.6159Ghostof Luzifer.6159 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2020

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:

    @Xca.9721 said:
    You do realize the big balance patch was only the first step and was (mostly) meant to decrease the powercreep overall? Of course not everything is perfect, there is still broken kitten that needs to be looked at, but it was a patch that Anet can follow up on the following weeks/months.

    Really? **Cause to me it looked like business as usual. **A new patch that feels like it is based on metrics and not actual gameplay. A patch that drops and busts up a bunch of things and creates a new flavor of the month. This is the same story we've had for like 4 years now.

    It is literally the same thing but now with less power coefficients, more condis. Nothing really got fixed cause everything is still broken.

    Calling the shake up buisness as ususal is so far from the truth that you either are trolling or just extremely ignorant. If you seriously believe in what you say maybe read the introduction to the balance patch and try to understand why this patch is and was exciting and the last 7 years of balance werent. It will be a great learning experience i am sure.

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Xca.9721 said:
    You do realize the big balance patch was only the first step and was (mostly) meant to decrease the powercreep overall? Of course not everything is perfect, there is still broken kitten that needs to be looked at, but it was a patch that Anet can follow up on the following weeks/months.

    So we r in beta mode of 7 year old game? They did not bother to test kitten before implementing. They get no credit.

    No we are in a 7 year old game where the pvp was balanced by the pve team because balance was not split between game modes. Now the pvp part of the game is power crept to the exteent that radical changes are necessary with frequent balancing patches. Exactly what anet has been doing.

    And to all the pro players in the forums here. I bet CMC is now still better at pvp than most of you even if he hasnt been playing competitivly anymore for years.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:

    @Xca.9721 said:
    You do realize the big balance patch was only the first step and was (mostly) meant to decrease the powercreep overall? Of course not everything is perfect, there is still broken kitten that needs to be looked at, but it was a patch that Anet can follow up on the following weeks/months.

    Really? **Cause to me it looked like business as usual. **A new patch that feels like it is based on metrics and not actual gameplay. A patch that drops and busts up a bunch of things and creates a new flavor of the month. This is the same story we've had for like 4 years now.

    It is literally the same thing but now with less power coefficients, more condis. Nothing really got fixed cause everything is still broken.

    Calling the shake up buisness as ususal is so far from the truth that you either are trolling or just extremely ignorant. If you seriously believe in what you say maybe read the introduction to the balance patch and try to understand why this patch is and was exciting and the last 7 years of balance werent. It will be a great learning experience i am sure.

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Xca.9721 said:
    You do realize the big balance patch was only the first step and was (mostly) meant to decrease the powercreep overall? Of course not everything is perfect, there is still broken kitten that needs to be looked at, but it was a patch that Anet can follow up on the following weeks/months.

    So we r in beta mode of 7 year old game? They did not bother to test kitten before implementing. They get no credit.

    No we are in a 7 year old game where the pvp was balanced by the pve team because balance was not split between game modes. Now the pvp part of the game is power crept to the exteent that radical changes are necessary with frequent balancing patches. Exactly what anet has been doing.

    And to all the pro players in the forums here. I bet CMC is now still better at pvp than most of you even if he hasnt been playing competitivly anymore for years.

    No the balance was not done by PvE team. Splits existed since ever, and even before that, PvP devs did have much say when it comes to balance. The difference is that sPvP devs are now given full domain, and I wish they have not, cuz they kitten sPvP royally.

  • Kickpuncher.8109Kickpuncher.8109 Member ✭✭✭

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Bwahahah!!...I just...can't with this community sometimes...

    The more I play this game, the more I stay from the forums. I swear, people are never satisfied. This update is one of the BEST things to come out of pvp, it has brought a lot of people back. Sure, there are some problematic builds still out there, but there are few. However, the overall game feels a lot cleaner. Is it ideal? Is it perfect? No! But is it a step in the right direction? kitten straight! This is what people collectively asked for and now it's here.

    You could have literally said this about any balance patch in the past as well. As I said this is just business as usual.

    New patch. New flavor of the month, repeat until the end of time.

    I hope I'm wrong.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:
    Cause it sure feels like ANET balance team is solely going off of metrics and numbers and not playing their own game.

    Relax, buddy. They have already taken some action and have promised to take more. I prefer they do this in small adjustments and get it right than kneejerk react to forum complaints at every turn.

    For me, it took a little adjustment and I was not pleased initially with the combination of altered feel on my build and, I guess, unrealistic expectations of a meta magically transformed into a PvP utopia overnight. However, after a few days of playing, I adjusted to the new feel and at this point PvP seems pretty much just as fun as it was before for me. If others are loving it and players are returning to the game over it, that's a clear improvement for me.

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:

    @Xca.9721 said:
    You do realize the big balance patch was only the first step and was (mostly) meant to decrease the powercreep overall? Of course not everything is perfect, there is still broken kitten that needs to be looked at, but it was a patch that Anet can follow up on the following weeks/months.

    Really? **Cause to me it looked like business as usual. **A new patch that feels like it is based on metrics and not actual gameplay. A patch that drops and busts up a bunch of things and creates a new flavor of the month. This is the same story we've had for like 4 years now.

    It is literally the same thing but now with less power coefficients, more condis. Nothing really got fixed cause everything is still broken.

    Calling the shake up buisness as ususal is so far from the truth that you either are trolling or just extremely ignorant. If you seriously believe in what you say maybe read the introduction to the balance patch and try to understand why this patch is and was exciting and the last 7 years of balance werent. It will be a great learning experience i am sure.

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Xca.9721 said:
    You do realize the big balance patch was only the first step and was (mostly) meant to decrease the powercreep overall? Of course not everything is perfect, there is still broken kitten that needs to be looked at, but it was a patch that Anet can follow up on the following weeks/months.

    So we r in beta mode of 7 year old game? They did not bother to test kitten before implementing. They get no credit.

    No we are in a 7 year old game where the pvp was balanced by the pve team because balance was not split between game modes. Now the pvp part of the game is power crept to the exteent that radical changes are necessary with frequent balancing patches. Exactly what anet has been doing.

    And to all the pro players in the forums here. I bet CMC is now still better at pvp than most of you even if he hasnt been playing competitivly anymore for years.

    No the balance was not done by PvE team. Splits existed since ever, and even before that, PvP devs did have much say when it comes to balance. The difference is that sPvP devs are now given full domain, and I wish they have not, cuz they kitten sPvP royally.

    "Previously, skills designers oversaw all balance changes with sign-off from designers working on competitive content." Before the change in direction there was nowhere near the amount of skill splits. The pve team did make balance for pvp. Now cmc has free hand to change pvp and wvw balance without being affected by them. pvp and wvw feel alot better already, I dont see how the changes were a mistake. To think the powercreep before being fine... especially in wvw

  • Fantasylife.7981Fantasylife.7981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:
    Cause it sure feels like ANET balance team is solely going off of metrics and numbers and not playing their own game.

    Anet doesnt understand that some of these power classes required you to aim and actually hit the target and condition dmg just applies on you no need to aim. why condition damage is so strong.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I'd like anet to play thief a lot see how its a really kitten idea to take away stealth and all teleports.

    All people who play thief know that would be a bad idea.

    and thats why thief still has so many teleports he can give you epileptic seizures

  • @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Bwahahah!!...I just...can't with this community sometimes...

    The more I play this game, the more I stay from the forums. I swear, people are never satisfied. This update is one of the BEST things to come out of pvp, it has brought a lot of people back. Sure, there are some problematic builds still out there, but there are few. However, the overall game feels a lot cleaner. Is it ideal? Is it perfect? No! But is it a step in the right direction? kitten straight! This is what people collectively asked for and now it's here.

    Yeeahh...I prefer THIS to the post-HoT era, any day of the week.

    I can be sure you don't play mesmer.It's no exaggeration to say that the current mesmer has been removed from the game.

  • noot.8641noot.8641 Member ✭✭

    @Kickpuncher.8109 said:
    Cause it sure feels like ANET balance team is solely going off of metrics and numbers and not playing their own game.

    All of that could be prevented if they would add test servers where the public can test the patch before release, like most mmorpgs do.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I'd like anet to play thief a lot see how its a really kitten idea to take away stealth and all teleports.

    All people who play thief know that would be a bad idea.

    and thats why thief still has so many teleports he can give you epileptic seizures

    Its sorta like how a big deal losing that second dodge and a lot of the blinks is for mes no? since you guys got low hp.
    Thief class isn't exactly the highest hp.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I'd like anet to play thief a lot see how its a really kitten idea to take away stealth and all teleports.

    All people who play thief know that would be a bad idea.

    and thats why thief still has so many teleports he can give you epileptic seizures

    Its sorta like how a big deal losing that second dodge and a lot of the blinks is for mes no? since you guys got low hp.
    Thief class isn't exactly the highest hp.

    it wasnt even 1 dodge that put the mirage in the dirt.
    all defensive CDs got 50% cd increase, condi damage got ripped by 60%+ in some cases.
    and builds that you would fight didnt get those nerfs, warrior has as much evades and mobility as it used to. while mesmer lost its dodges and mobility.
    it had nothing to do with the dodge, we just meme about it cuz its fun.

  • @ZeteCommander.4937 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Bwahahah!!...I just...can't with this community sometimes...

    The more I play this game, the more I stay from the forums. I swear, people are never satisfied. This update is one of the BEST things to come out of pvp, it has brought a lot of people back. Sure, there are some problematic builds still out there, but there are few. However, the overall game feels a lot cleaner. Is it ideal? Is it perfect? No! But is it a step in the right direction? kitten straight! This is what people collectively asked for and now it's here.

    Yeeahh...I prefer THIS to the post-HoT era, any day of the week.

    I can be sure you don't play mesmer.It's no exaggeration to say that the current mesmer has been removed from the game.

    Mirage is still strong. It has a lot of damage and great survivability. That is true for 5v5 and for 2v2. Misha plays mirage and he is rank 3 or so on the 2v2 leaderboard. It is mmore a learn to play issue than an issue with the class.

  • @viquing.8254 said:

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Bwahahah!!...I just...can't with this community sometimes...

    The more I play this game, the more I stay from the forums. I swear, people are never satisfied. This update is one of the BEST things to come out of pvp, it has brought a lot of people back. Sure, there are some problematic builds still out there, but there are few. However, the overall game feels a lot cleaner. Is it ideal? Is it perfect? No! But is it a step in the right direction? kitten straight! This is what people collectively asked for and now it's here.

    Yeeahh...I prefer THIS to the post-HoT era, any day of the week.

    I can be sure you don't play mesmer.It's no exaggeration to say that the current mesmer has been removed from the game.

    Mirage is still strong. It has a lot of damage and great survivability. That is true for 5v5 and for 2v2. Misha plays mirage and he is rank 3 or so on the 2v2 leaderboard. It is mmore a learn to play issue than an issue with the class.

    Misha will be here whatever he play. (And there is hudge teamplay combo in his match.)
    Where is the second mesmer after him ?

    My point was that it isnt the class that restricts you. Misha can play it at very high level in both 5v5 and 2v2. Therefore unless misha is some superhuman immortal being, people qqing here could become decent with mirage aswell if theyd just try. Mirage had a lot of get-out-of jail free cards. Now they are gone and you actually have to be able to play the game to be good. Deal with it.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2020

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Bwahahah!!...I just...can't with this community sometimes...

    The more I play this game, the more I stay from the forums. I swear, people are never satisfied. This update is one of the BEST things to come out of pvp, it has brought a lot of people back. Sure, there are some problematic builds still out there, but there are few. However, the overall game feels a lot cleaner. Is it ideal? Is it perfect? No! But is it a step in the right direction? kitten straight! This is what people collectively asked for and now it's here.

    Yeeahh...I prefer THIS to the post-HoT era, any day of the week.

    I can be sure you don't play mesmer.It's no exaggeration to say that the current mesmer has been removed from the game.

    Mirage is still strong. It has a lot of damage and great survivability. That is true for 5v5 and for 2v2. Misha plays mirage and he is rank 3 or so on the 2v2 leaderboard. It is mmore a learn to play issue than an issue with the class.

    Misha will be here whatever he play. (And there is hudge teamplay combo in his match.)
    Where is the second mesmer after him ?

    My point was that it isnt the class that restricts you. Misha can play it at very high level in both 5v5 and 2v2. Therefore unless misha is some superhuman immortal being, people qqing here could become decent with mirage aswell if theyd just try. Mirage had a lot of get-out-of jail free cards. Now they are gone and you actually have to be able to play the game to be good. Deal with it.

    Sorry but if only 1 guys does it (with hudge teamplay combo) while the next one is 1k miles away, it's more about the superhuman facts <3 .

  • @viquing.8254 said:

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Bwahahah!!...I just...can't with this community sometimes...

    The more I play this game, the more I stay from the forums. I swear, people are never satisfied. This update is one of the BEST things to come out of pvp, it has brought a lot of people back. Sure, there are some problematic builds still out there, but there are few. However, the overall game feels a lot cleaner. Is it ideal? Is it perfect? No! But is it a step in the right direction? kitten straight! This is what people collectively asked for and now it's here.

    Yeeahh...I prefer THIS to the post-HoT era, any day of the week.

    I can be sure you don't play mesmer.It's no exaggeration to say that the current mesmer has been removed from the game.

    Mirage is still strong. It has a lot of damage and great survivability. That is true for 5v5 and for 2v2. Misha plays mirage and he is rank 3 or so on the 2v2 leaderboard. It is mmore a learn to play issue than an issue with the class.

    Misha will be here whatever he play. (And there is hudge teamplay combo in his match.)
    Where is the second mesmer after him ?

    My point was that it isnt the class that restricts you. Misha can play it at very high level in both 5v5 and 2v2. Therefore unless misha is some superhuman immortal being, people qqing here could become decent with mirage aswell if theyd just try. Mirage had a lot of get-out-of jail free cards. Now they are gone and you actually have to be able to play the game to be good. Deal with it.

    Sorry but if only 1 guys does it (with hudge teamplay combo) while the next one is 1k miles away, it's more about the superhuman facts <3

    No one stops you from making the same "teamplay combo". I am pretty sure there are more mirages high ranked than you think. Also 2v2 isnt the measure for balance 5v5 is. What do you care what is optimal at high end level anyway? You can get to plat using a mirage dont worry. Just get good at the game.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I'd like anet to play thief a lot see how its a really kitten idea to take away stealth and all teleports.

    All people who play thief know that would be a bad idea.

    and thats why thief still has so many teleports he can give you epileptic seizures

    Its sorta like how a big deal losing that second dodge and a lot of the blinks is for mes no? since you guys got low hp.
    Thief class isn't exactly the highest hp.

    it wasnt even 1 dodge that put the mirage in the dirt.
    all defensive CDs got 50% cd increase, condi damage got ripped by 60%+ in some cases.
    and builds that you would fight didnt get those nerfs, warrior has as much evades and mobility as it used to. while mesmer lost its dodges and mobility.
    it had nothing to do with the dodge, we just meme about it cuz its fun.

    This.
    The dodge is the least of mesmer problems, problem is the adding up of nerfs prior to that.
    Several traits, both offensive and defensive were murdered or deleted.
    Damage, both power and condi was gutted.
    Phantasmal rework was a poisoned gift as I've been saying since it was released it cut out a lot of damage and added a lot of setting time to burst.

    The degenerate

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Bwahahah!!...I just...can't with this community sometimes...

    The more I play this game, the more I stay from the forums. I swear, people are never satisfied. This update is one of the BEST things to come out of pvp, it has brought a lot of people back. Sure, there are some problematic builds still out there, but there are few. However, the overall game feels a lot cleaner. Is it ideal? Is it perfect? No! But is it a step in the right direction? kitten straight! This is what people collectively asked for and now it's here.

    Yeeahh...I prefer THIS to the post-HoT era, any day of the week.

    I can be sure you don't play mesmer.It's no exaggeration to say that the current mesmer has been removed from the game.

    Mirage is still strong. It has a lot of damage and great survivability. That is true for 5v5 and for 2v2. Misha plays mirage and he is rank 3 or so on the 2v2 leaderboard. It is mmore a learn to play issue than an issue with the class.

    Misha will be here whatever he play. (And there is hudge teamplay combo in his match.)
    Where is the second mesmer after him ?

    My point was that it isnt the class that restricts you. Misha can play it at very high level in both 5v5 and 2v2. Therefore unless misha is some superhuman immortal being, people qqing here could become decent with mirage aswell if theyd just try. Mirage had a lot of get-out-of jail free cards. Now they are gone and you actually have to be able to play the game to be good. Deal with it.

    I remember playing 5v1 against pro player in cs 1.6 good old days.
    we had ak, he had pistol.
    even tho his gun was 4-5 times better and he was outnumbered 5 to 1, he had about 60% winrate against us.
    Point is, misha could propably not even use some of his utilities as BM and still be at the top, becouse he is much better then the rest.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is the best state the game has been in a long time, yet people are still crying. Its a shame.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2020

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Bwahahah!!...I just...can't with this community sometimes...

    The more I play this game, the more I stay from the forums. I swear, people are never satisfied. This update is one of the BEST things to come out of pvp, it has brought a lot of people back. Sure, there are some problematic builds still out there, but there are few. However, the overall game feels a lot cleaner. Is it ideal? Is it perfect? No! But is it a step in the right direction? kitten straight! This is what people collectively asked for and now it's here.

    Yeeahh...I prefer THIS to the post-HoT era, any day of the week.

    I can be sure you don't play mesmer.It's no exaggeration to say that the current mesmer has been removed from the game.

    Mirage is still strong. It has a lot of damage and great survivability. That is true for 5v5 and for 2v2. Misha plays mirage and he is rank 3 or so on the 2v2 leaderboard. It is mmore a learn to play issue than an issue with the class.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I'd like anet to play thief a lot see how its a really kitten idea to take away stealth and all teleports.

    All people who play thief know that would be a bad idea.

    and thats why thief still has so many teleports he can give you epileptic seizures

    Its sorta like how a big deal losing that second dodge and a lot of the blinks is for mes no? since you guys got low hp.
    Thief class isn't exactly the highest hp.

    it wasnt even 1 dodge that put the mirage in the dirt.
    all defensive CDs got 50% cd increase, condi damage got ripped by 60%+ in some cases.
    and builds that you would fight didnt get those nerfs, warrior has as much evades and mobility as it used to. while mesmer lost its dodges and mobility.
    it had nothing to do with the dodge, we just meme about it cuz its fun.

    This.
    The dodge is the least of mesmer problems, problem is the adding up of nerfs prior to that.
    Several traits, both offensive and defensive were murdered or deleted.
    Damage, both power and condi was gutted.
    Phantasmal rework was a poisoned gift as I've been saying since it was released it cut out a lot of damage and added a lot of setting time to burst.

    It is funny how both extrema (Mesmer mains and Mesmer hater) completely miss the point: The one dodge change is the bad one, all previous nerfs were not the ones completely contradicting the mechanic of Mirage and dumbing it down. They were adjustment balance moves most of them i agree to (talking about the ones directed to the Mirage traitline, not the overnerf of shatters in terms of condi application). Even when Anet would remove all previous nerfs and only do the one dodge change it still would be completely unlogical nonsense and bad. It still would not solve any balance issue only Condimirage has (noobfriendly and passive playstyle) while still dumbing down the mechanic doubled instead higher the skill requirement to play Condimirage, while it still would overnerf and dumb down Powermirage for no reason. And that also is the point why Condimirage, just with another build, is still playable with some success (even though playing just Necro, Ele, Fb, Ranger or Condirev would be a way easier life) while Powermirage is only for masochists while also being dumbed down. The one dodge change did not solve any issue Condimirage had, it only dumbs down the elite mechanic as it dumps down dodge management in general (means would dumb down dodge management on all classes, Mirage only gets double dumbed down because it also contradicts the elite mechanic itself).
    And the biggest nonsense are arguments like "look you still can play Mirage just switch to mistake cover and low skill-friendly traitlines and toxic retargeting skills" and don't care that skillful builds on Mirage are compeltely butchered for the sake of not even solving any issue from Condimirage.

    That not even Mesmer mains get it leaves me open-mouthed!

    Just quote myself for a balance idea to make even Condimriage a higher skill ceiling spec while still balancing the power of it down to the post patch lvl so it will not be op after getting 2 dodges back:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    The problem is, when you now add more endurance reggen to a one dodge only bar it gets even more braindead spammy. Means you will even more force the situation where you just dumbed down the spec while not even solving any issue and make it more and more spammy and more and more dumbed down and passive the more endurance reggen you add.
    They just should give Mirage 2 dodges back and then adjust ambush dmg down to a balanced lvl. Like lower gs ambush dmg from the Mirage itself (the clones do not rly do much dmg anyway, maybe reduce the might and vulnerability stacks a little bit) and rework Condi ambushes into something more being about effects and not dmg. Like you can make axe ambush stack a balanced amount of condition-dmg-stats for a short duration to force offensive dodges before goind for an axe 3 shatter burst, staff ambush can stack condition duration stat for a short duration, scepter could get a very little and well animated and with decent casttime added immob (1/4s on Mesmers, 1/8s on clones as duration, or just 1/4 on all skills while Mesmers own ambush has a little bit dmg in addition to be stronger than clone ambushes), that would force the Mesmer into offensive dodges to hit a short immob to prepare and secure a scepter 3 hit for example. Another possibility would be chill for scepter. Scepter ambush in general should be reworked to something with less single hits. Make it a one hit skill. For those changes condi clone ambushes ofc lose most of their condistacks (on scepter clones wouldn't do any dmg aside form stacking the effect). So you would need to dodge offensive to prepare a condi "burst" or a hit of bigger and active condiskills like shatters or weaponskills. These are just examples, there are lot of ways to rework condi ambushes and/ or nerf their dmg to a balanced lvl with giving 2 dodges back while keeping Mirage not op compared to the overall nerfed post patch situation.

    If you only give 2 dodges back to Mirage into the current situation where most stuff is nerfed too, it would probably be too op (at least on Condimirage, probably also on Power). So you ofc need to compensate the more dodges with nerfs at other places. And reworking amsbushes and nerfing ambush dmg where needed (from either Mesmers own ambush or clone ambushes) should be done in terms of higher skill ceiling and less passive playstyle anyway.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aza.2105 said:
    This is the best state the game has been in a long time, yet people are still crying. Its a shame.

    not everyone plays thief,necro,warrior,rev or guard :D

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Aza.2105 said:
    This is the best state the game has been in a long time, yet people are still crying. Its a shame.

    not everyone plays thief,necro,warrior,rev or guard :D

    What problem you have with Thieves? I mean there are braindead Thief builds for certain (they are mostly not meta) but i would replace Thief with Ele here by far.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2020

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Bwahahah!!...I just...can't with this community sometimes...

    The more I play this game, the more I stay from the forums. I swear, people are never satisfied. This update is one of the BEST things to come out of pvp, it has brought a lot of people back. Sure, there are some problematic builds still out there, but there are few. However, the overall game feels a lot cleaner. Is it ideal? Is it perfect? No! But is it a step in the right direction? kitten straight! This is what people collectively asked for and now it's here.

    Yeeahh...I prefer THIS to the post-HoT era, any day of the week.

    I can be sure you don't play mesmer.It's no exaggeration to say that the current mesmer has been removed from the game.

    Mirage is still strong. It has a lot of damage and great survivability. That is true for 5v5 and for 2v2. Misha plays mirage and he is rank 3 or so on the 2v2 leaderboard. It is mmore a learn to play issue than an issue with the class.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I'd like anet to play thief a lot see how its a really kitten idea to take away stealth and all teleports.

    All people who play thief know that would be a bad idea.

    and thats why thief still has so many teleports he can give you epileptic seizures

    Its sorta like how a big deal losing that second dodge and a lot of the blinks is for mes no? since you guys got low hp.
    Thief class isn't exactly the highest hp.

    it wasnt even 1 dodge that put the mirage in the dirt.
    all defensive CDs got 50% cd increase, condi damage got ripped by 60%+ in some cases.
    and builds that you would fight didnt get those nerfs, warrior has as much evades and mobility as it used to. while mesmer lost its dodges and mobility.
    it had nothing to do with the dodge, we just meme about it cuz its fun.

    This.
    The dodge is the least of mesmer problems, problem is the adding up of nerfs prior to that.
    Several traits, both offensive and defensive were murdered or deleted.
    Damage, both power and condi was gutted.
    Phantasmal rework was a poisoned gift as I've been saying since it was released it cut out a lot of damage and added a lot of setting time to burst.

    It is funny how both extrema (Mesmer mains and Mesmer hater) completely miss the point: The one dodge change is the bad one, all previous nerfs were not the ones completely contradicting the mechanic of Mirage and dumbing it down. They were adjustment balance moves most of them i agree to (talking about the ones directed to the Mirage traitline, not the overnerf of shatters in terms of condi application). Even when Anet would remove all previous nerfs and only do the one dodge change it still would be completely unlogical nonsense and bad. It still would not solve any balance issue only Condimirage has (noobfriendly and passive playstyle) while still dumbing down the mechanic doubled instead higher the skill requirement to play Condimirage, while it still would overnerf and dumb down Powermirage for no reason. And that also is the point why Condimirage, just with another build, is still playable with some success (even though playing just Necro, Ele, Fb, Ranger or Condirev would be a way easier life) while Powermirage is only for masochists while also being dumbed down. The one dodge change did not solve any issue Condimirage had, it only dumbs down the elite mechanic as it dumps down dodge management in general (means would dumb down dodge management on all classes, Mirage only gets double dumbed down because it also contradicts the elite mechanic itself).
    And the biggest nonsense are arguments like "look you still can play Mirage just switch to mistake cover and low skill-friendly traitlines and toxic retargeting skills" and don't care that skillful builds on Mirage are compeltely butchered for the sake of not even solving any issue from Condimirage.

    That not even Mesmer mains get it leaves me open-mouthed!

    Just quote myself for a balance idea to make even Condimriage a higher skill ceiling spec while still balancing the power of it down to the post patch lvl so it will not be op after getting 2 dodges back:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    The problem is, when you now add more endurance reggen to a one dodge only bar it gets even more braindead spammy. Means you will even more force the situation where you just dumbed down the spec while not even solving any issue and make it more and more spammy and more and more dumbed down and passive the more endurance reggen you add.
    They just should give Mirage 2 dodges back and then adjust ambush dmg down to a balanced lvl. Like lower gs ambush dmg from the Mirage itself (the clones do not rly do much dmg anyway, maybe reduce the might and vulnerability stacks a little bit) and rework Condi ambushes into something more being about effects and not dmg. Like you can make axe ambush stack a balanced amount of condition-dmg-stats for a short duration to force offensive dodges before goind for an axe 3 shatter burst, staff ambush can stack condition duration stat for a short duration, scepter could get a very little and well animated and with decent casttime added immob (1/4s on Mesmers, 1/8s on clones as duration, or just 1/4 on all skills while Mesmers own ambush has a little bit dmg in addition to be stronger than clone ambushes), that would force the Mesmer into offensive dodges to hit a short immob to prepare and secure a scepter 3 hit for example. Another possibility would be chill for scepter. Scepter ambush in general should be reworked to something with less single hits. Make it a one hit skill. For those changes condi clone ambushes ofc lose most of their condistacks (on scepter clones wouldn't do any dmg aside form stacking the effect). So you would need to dodge offensive to prepare a condi "burst" or a hit of bigger and active condiskills like shatters or weaponskills. These are just examples, there are lot of ways to rework condi ambushes and/ or nerf their dmg to a balanced lvl with giving 2 dodges back while keeping Mirage not op compared to the overall nerfed post patch situation.

    If you only give 2 dodges back to Mirage into the current situation where most stuff is nerfed too, it would probably be too op (at least on Condimirage, probably also on Power). So you ofc need to compensate the more dodges with nerfs at other places. And reworking amsbushes and nerfing ambush dmg where needed (from either Mesmers own ambush or clone ambushes) should be done in terms of higher skill ceiling and less passive playstyle anyway.

    Not talking about the mirage traitline, talking about duel, dom, BF, GS in general, MC (I know we disagree on this), portal and phantasms, don't really care about condi, so I'll leave it for others.

    The degenerate