Final nail in the coffin - No WvW updates

[Anput.4620]

Mounts were the final nail in the coffin for me, i play Gloria Victis now.

[Aeolus.3615]

As a wvw player, no wvw updates were expected.... it was all about ls5...

[Mass Pandemic.3517]

@dS T nE.6823 said:Press F for dead game

F.......F.......F

[borgs.6103]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Tinnel.4369" said:Nonsense, THE single highest priority for the mode is a development so intense it's going on 18 months with no payout. Or so we've been told.

We all know that in business you put your money and patience in the really big payouts.

Right, so even your sarcasm can't hide the fact I'm right. EVEN with that 18 month development, PVE STILL gets more development than WvW. We have 7 years of game history ... you're going to honestly try to paint the picture that WvW is this intensely developed game mode? MORE than PVE? Now your just being incredible.

It's more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't update WvW and put almost all of their resources on PVE so players don't play WvW. Then they go "See?! PVE generates most of the income!"

[Mammon.9508]

I just needed any excuse to keep playing this game. Throw me a damn bone. I'm disappointed and hope the game mode changes radically for the better and re-grab my attention in the future.

[Tinnel.4369]

@borgs.6103 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Tinnel.4369" said:Nonsense, THE single highest priority for the mode is a development so intense it's going on 18 months with no payout. Or so we've been told.

We all know that in business you put your money and patience in the really big payouts.

Right, so even your sarcasm can't hide the fact I'm right. EVEN with that 18 month development, PVE STILL gets more development than WvW. We have 7 years of game history ... you're going to honestly try to paint the picture that WvW is this intensely developed game mode? MORE than PVE? Now your just being incredible.

It's more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't update WvW and put almost all of their resources on PVE so players don't play WvW. Then they go

"See?! PVE generates most of the income!"

Like I said, choice and misunderstanding.

[Magnuzone.8395]

Yeah the atmosphere is really bad now. Sad to see dedicated players that's been here since launch, leave. And those that is left has been force to be casuals since there is no content. Nothing to fight, no reason to keep on. Nothing...

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Magnuzone.8395 said:Yeah the atmosphere is really bad now. Sad to see dedicated players that's been here since launch, leave. And those that is left has been force to be casuals since there is no content. Nothing to fight, no reason to keep on. Nothing...

As long as there is 1 player in WvW, thats my groups reason to keep on. Its all about the fights, the defending and the taking w/o zerging (duo/small scale)

[Dami.5046]

August 30th was never about WvW or SPvP.

[Magnuzone.8395]

@"Dami.5046" said:August 30th was never about WvW or SPvP.

You are correct ofc, but at least try to understand.

With the delay in the WvW overhaul a lot of players and guilds have just been looking for a reason to stay.

And sometimes almost fooling themselves: "it will come, alliances are coming soon, they are working on it as we speak".

They love this unique game mode that cant be found anywhere else, but would have left months ago if they knew that no updates are coming in the near future.

So this became the last nail in the coffin for a lot of ppl. Doesn't matter what it was about in the first place.

[devastoscz.9851]

@Magnuzone.8395 said:

@"Dami.5046" said:August 30th was never about WvW or SPvP.

You are correct ofc, but at least try to understand.

With the delay in the WvW overhaul a lot of players and guilds have just been looking for a reason to stay.

And sometimes almost fooling themselves: "it will come, alliances are coming soon, they are working on it as we speak".

They love this unique game mode that cant be found anywhere else, but would have left months ago if they knew that no updates are coming in the near future.

So this became the last nail in the coffin for a lot of ppl. Doesn't matter what it was about in the first place.

Thank you. That's exactly it.

[JTGuevara.9018]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Tinnel.4369" said:Prove to me the income discrepancy is as big as you imply

I already did ... if it wasn't big, WvW would have the same level of development as PVE. If Anet didn't understand the market, this game wouldn't exist at all; the sole reason it's successful is Anet's observation that there was an underserved portion of the market that didn't want games like WoW, etc...

Besides, I don't really care if you are convinced or not. The fact is that WvW simply doesn't get the attention people want it to have and it's not even close to how much happens in PVE. It's not unreasonable to think it's because there simply isn't enough business to put that level of attention in it. What you attribute to malice and incompetence, I'm attributing to sound business practice. I think i'm right because if Anet were so incompetent, this game wouldn't exist, or their other games either.

Sound business practices? Like the marketing team? ROFL Like the over-hyping of an event and under-delivering? Like the secretive and non-transparent interaction with the community? Like the layoffs? Like the cancellation of their non-gw2 projects?

You know, you could've just spared the corporate shilling in the above paragraph and simply said to the rest of the wvw community: "Get out--we don't want you here." It would have got the point across much more clearly and spared us the supposed wisdom of the "experts". I mean...they probably will anyway...Alliances or not, I am at an end in spvp/wvw, it is a dead mode walking. The only thing keeping me here in gw2 is my guild, otherwise I would already be gone.

[SnowMochi.7602]

@"JTGuevara.9018" said:"The only thing keeping me here in gw2 is my guild, otherwise I would already be gone."

That's why I'm still here: for the family and friends that constitute my guild.But yes, 6 years on and I've seen things only get worse, especially for WvW.

[grouchybhaal.4275]

The orginial dungeons havent been added to since launch also fractuals havent had a major update in about 5 years. So there are other areas they are ignoring to path more ways/trial something different.Still a very cheap game, so they have limited resources. But could be like eso, only have one worth while campaign and no major update for over 5 years, same fights, no tiers... Just same old stale stuff. So atleast wvw still has a tier system, may not be as good as it used to be but hey atleast its still there.

[Obtena.7952]

@borgs.6103 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Tinnel.4369" said:Nonsense, THE single highest priority for the mode is a development so intense it's going on 18 months with no payout. Or so we've been told.

We all know that in business you put your money and patience in the really big payouts.

Right, so even your sarcasm can't hide the fact I'm right. EVEN with that 18 month development, PVE STILL gets more development than WvW. We have 7 years of game history ... you're going to honestly try to paint the picture that WvW is this intensely developed game mode? MORE than PVE? Now your just being incredible.

It's more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't update WvW and put almost all of their resources on PVE so players don't play WvW. Then they go

"See?! PVE generates most of the income!"

In a sense that's true, but that doesn't really change the nature of the discussion here. This isn't an experiment, it's a business. If a product line is declining because it's out of favour with your customers, it's pretty hard to justify putting investment into it.

[Obtena.7952]

@JTGuevara.9018 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Tinnel.4369" said:Prove to me the income discrepancy is as big as you imply

I already did ... if it wasn't big, WvW would have the same level of development as PVE. If Anet didn't understand the market, this game wouldn't exist at all; the sole reason it's successful is Anet's observation that there was an underserved portion of the market that didn't want games like WoW, etc...

Besides, I don't really care if you are convinced or not. The fact is that WvW simply doesn't get the attention people want it to have and it's not even close to how much happens in PVE. It's not unreasonable to think it's because there simply isn't enough business to put that level of attention in it. What you attribute to malice and incompetence, I'm attributing to sound business practice. I think i'm right because if Anet were so incompetent, this game wouldn't exist, or their other games either.

Sound business practices? Like the marketing team? ROFL Like the over-hyping of an event and under-delivering? Like the secretive and non-transparent interaction with the community? Like the layoffs? Like the cancellation of their non-gw2 projects?

You know, you could've just spared the corporate shilling in the above paragraph and simply said to the rest of the wvw community: "Get out--we don't want you here." It would have got the point across much more clearly and spared us the supposed wisdom of the "experts". I mean...they probably will anyway...Alliances or not, I am at an end in spvp/wvw, it is a dead mode walking. The only thing keeping me here in gw2 is my guild, otherwise I would already be gone.

Businesses make these decisions and take those kinds of actions all the time, so your attempt to make them seem exceptional isn't really meaningful. There isn't any corporate shilling going on here. It's just how things work. Sometimes ideas don't work. People get laid off. Projects get cancelled. These things aren't unique to Anet. The best part is that these are signs of a business that is making corrections to what they are doing to get back to the their purpose. If you don't see that, you don't understand how a business works.

But you've already come to the correct answer for a player in your situation ... you made a choice to not play a game mode you don't enjoy. There isn't a problem with that and it's expected. It's probably one of the reasons you see MMO's and similar games offer so many different game modes in the first place.

[Trajan.4953]

You know what, if you are enjoying the game mode and its current state then power to you! Go out and have a blast. Some of us stuck around long past the expiration date and the milk is definitely sour. I don't want to be too bitter about it but I think after the recent announcement that will probably be it unless a miracle happens. I'm the last of a bunch that left because I held some hope that things may change, I don't really see that in the future but I will check in from time to time. Good luck and have fun to you all.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

@Etterwyn.5263 said:Not with a bang but with a whimper.Not even thunderous applause.

[Substance E.4852]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@borgs.6103 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Tinnel.4369" said:Nonsense, THE single highest priority for the mode is a development so intense it's going on 18 months with no payout. Or so we've been told.

We all know that in business you put your money and patience in the really big payouts.

Right, so even your sarcasm can't hide the fact I'm right. EVEN with that 18 month development, PVE STILL gets more development than WvW. We have 7 years of game history ... you're going to honestly try to paint the picture that WvW is this intensely developed game mode? MORE than PVE? Now your just being incredible.

It's more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't update WvW and put almost all of their resources on PVE so players don't play WvW. Then they go

"See?! PVE generates most of the income!"

In a sense that's true, but that doesn't really change the nature of the discussion here. This isn't an experiment, it's a business. If a product line is declining because it's out of favour with your customers, it's pretty hard to justify putting investment into it.

In what possible way has WvW "declined" because people just stopped wanting what it offered instead of because Anet fucked it up with 2 terrible espec cycles and near total lack of mechanics updates to offset the combat environment that they altered themselves?

Imagine if Ford stopped putting AC and power steering in the F150. Would it be reasonable for them to just stop making the truck altogether when sales crater or would you expect them to realize there's still a demand but not not for the crappier version they chose to release?

[Obtena.7952]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@borgs.6103 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Tinnel.4369" said:Nonsense, THE single highest priority for the mode is a development so intense it's going on 18 months with no payout. Or so we've been told.

We all know that in business you put your money and patience in the really big payouts.

Right, so even your sarcasm can't hide the fact I'm right. EVEN with that 18 month development, PVE STILL gets more development than WvW. We have 7 years of game history ... you're going to honestly try to paint the picture that WvW is this intensely developed game mode? MORE than PVE? Now your just being incredible.

It's more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't update WvW and put almost all of their resources on PVE so players don't play WvW. Then they go

"See?! PVE generates most of the income!"

In a sense that's true, but that doesn't really change the nature of the discussion here. This isn't an experiment, it's a business. If a product line is declining because it's out of favour with your customers, it's pretty hard to justify putting investment into it.

In what possible way has WvW "declined" because people just stopped wanting what it offered instead of because Anet kitten it up with 2 terrible espec cycles and near total lack of mechanics updates to offset the combat environment that they altered themselves?

Easy ... the number of people goes down that use that service; that's decline. It's irrelevant what causes the decline. You can dwell on the reasons for what caused that all you like if it makes you feel better. It's a pointless exercise to do so though. What is relevant is the current situation. Sure, if Anet wanted to they could divert a significant number of resources to improve that situation ... but at what cost? It all goes back to what I have been saying all along ... the investment goes where the money is. I don't think what we are seeing is anything more than an indication of what most people in this game do. If most of the time that players spent ingame was in WvW, there would be new developments happening in it at a frequency that reflects that.

Imagine if Ford stopped putting AC and power steering in the F150. Would it be reasonable for them to just stop making the truck altogether when sales crater or would you expect them to realize there's still a demand but not not for the crappier version they chose to release?

I can imagine that ... but Anet hasn't removed anything from WvW to make that comparison relevant. Yes, they haven't delivered much to WvW but to paint a picture were they aren't doing anything and removing things that people like about WvW ... that's not being honest.

[Substance E.4852]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@borgs.6103 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Tinnel.4369" said:Nonsense, THE single highest priority for the mode is a development so intense it's going on 18 months with no payout. Or so we've been told.

We all know that in business you put your money and patience in the really big payouts.

Right, so even your sarcasm can't hide the fact I'm right. EVEN with that 18 month development, PVE STILL gets more development than WvW. We have 7 years of game history ... you're going to honestly try to paint the picture that WvW is this intensely developed game mode? MORE than PVE? Now your just being incredible.

It's more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't update WvW and put almost all of their resources on PVE so players don't play WvW. Then they go

"See?! PVE generates most of the income!"

In a sense that's true, but that doesn't really change the nature of the discussion here. This isn't an experiment, it's a business. If a product line is declining because it's out of favour with your customers, it's pretty hard to justify putting investment into it.

In what possible way has WvW "declined" because people just stopped wanting what it offered instead of because Anet kitten it up with 2 terrible espec cycles and near total lack of mechanics updates to offset the combat environment that they altered themselves?

Easy ... the number of people goes down that use that service. It's irrelevant what causes the decline. You can dwell on the reasons for what caused that all you like if it makes you feel better. It's a pointless exercise to do so though. What is relevant is the current situation. Sure, if Anet wanted to they could divert a significant number of resources to improve that situation ... but at what cost? It all goes back to what I have been saying all along ... the investment goes where the money is.

Imagine if Ford stopped putting AC and power steering in the F150. Would it be reasonable for them to just stop making the truck altogether when sales crater or would you expect them to realize there's still a demand but not not for the crappier version they chose to release?

I can imagine that ... but Anet hasn't removed anything from WvW to make that comparison relevant. Yes, they haven't delivered much to WvW but to paint a picture were they aren't doing anything and removing things that people like about WvW ... that's not being honest.

"It irrelevant what causes that decline"

No it isn't but that rarely stops people from deploying tactical nihilism to win arguments so please continue.

"but Anet hasn't removed anything"

Dude, come on now...

Ya know what, forget it, not gonna play this game with you.

Anet should just go full steam ahead with running their property into the ground for easy profit. What earns the most the fastest is all the matters apparently.

[Obtena.7952]

@Substance E.4852 said:Ya know what, forget it, not gonna play this game with you.That's good, because it's a game you can't win ... here is why:Anet should just go full steam ahead with running their property into the ground for easy profit. What earns the most the fastest is all the matters apparently.

As much as you and many others want to mock and ignore this, it IS what is relevant here. It's not a charity and GW2 isn't an exercise in philanthropy. The fact is simple: if the game doesn't make money, the game doesn't exist. That's a situation that NO one will benefit from. A business is going to have a critical look at what services they offer and take actions appropriately. If WvW isn't getting the same level of development as other parts of the game, that's are really big hint to how much value it adds to Anet to offer it.

[Substance E.4852]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:Anet should just go full steam ahead with running their property into the ground for easy profit. What earns the most the fastest is all the matters apparently.

As much as you and many others want to mock and ignore this, it IS what is relevant here. It's not a charity and GW2 isn't an exercise in philanthropy. The fact is simple: if the game doesn't make money, the game doesn't exist. That's a situation that NO one will benefit from.

As if making money and providing a variety of supported content was a zero-sum game

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Obtena.7952 said:Nothing smug about it. If WvW isn't generating enough revenue and it's not a loss leader, then it should go away so they can focus on what is working for them. That's how business works.

Why do you think car makers are dumping sedans for SUV and crossovers? It's no different.

chances are tho if they actually got it right, not just a little but 100% right, people would flood to wvw and it would be very profitable.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

So...quick question of curiosity......these changes "and lack thereof in some cases" is it up to ANET or their parent company to decide these things?