oh oh i like that!!
When this is going to be set up, I'm going to laugh in W3 "castle" (raid)
Rain of death mesmers ^^
"Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.
This trait is fine if the game was balanced, and that the players had not enough easily and in too many numbers to block, dodge, blindly, invulnerability, resistance, stability,...
Signet of Undeath : currently gives 2% lifeforce per 3 seconds.
This change increases it by 100% up to 4% per 3 seconds.
When traited with Signets of Suffering you get 6% per 3 seconds which is a 100% increase from the previous 3% per 3 seconds.
Increased passive lifeforce gain by 100%.
Too bad I thought in your first post that it increased the 100% life force that you generated that would have been a more pro-active sign.
On the other hand it's really a shame that you didn't change the actif sign. One rez we don't need it in necro we have the whole blood line which is based on the rez if we want.
Maybe Active sign :
Something that Aoe heal or something that would allow us that our life can't go below 50% of life for X seconds for example that would go well with the name of the sign.
Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill.
Can we commit suicide by activating this sign?
Is the damage inflicted on us if the person is rez by the sign or activation?
Is there a condition to this sign because if it is rez before or died before, it still inflicts damage on us?
Besides it wouldn't be bad if all the weapons skills of the necro generate LF + spectral skills so you could do many more spells by assigning them something else in addition as half of the skills of the necro and these spe are useless.
Got to say, I quite enjoyed some of these Traits, especially Protectors Impact on my Heal Brand and Symbol Brand, assisting in some skips and just having fun with it. Sure it was niche Utility, but Utility nontheless. Now that is just gone without replacement or compensation, making the Trait just look fairly meh. Maybe reduce the CD a little bit and make Writ of Persistence actually increase the duration of the Symbol by the listed 2 seconds, rather than just one?
For Terrifying Descent I'm looking forward to the change, since one stack of 3 seconds of Torment on Fear every 30 seconds was just terrible, but I have a feeling you are still going to give it a way too long ICD, rather than just triggering on every CC, meaning it probably still won't be able to compete with Plague Sending, even as damage option via BIP etc, while lacking the Utility that provides.
The added health sacrifice in addition to the target reduction to Signet of Undeath seems just once again like some weird thematic choice for Necro over viability or functionality, just adding design bloat. The increase to the passive LF generation may be nice, but I don't see this skill ever being used as anything but a purely passive LF generator, if even that. Not sure what the goal here was, the skill already wasn't actively used (both in terms of being used at all, and even more so the active component of it).
For Peak Performance, I don't know why you are nerfing the active component to then add a passive buff. Imo we should get less passive modifiers and move towards more active combo elements, and this seems like a step backwards in terms of Skill/Trait design. (also, on a small unrelated note, in the 1 year since the change to Forceful Greatsword you still haven't noticed/addressed that it's still giving the 10% Damage buff to GS Skills, on top of the 120*2 Power that was supposed to replace it, and the CD reduction, and the Might on hit, despite stating in January this year that it was fixed)
In general I don't like this trend of removing Quality of Life from the game with either the promise of future changes which then either never come or just years down the road (often poorly thought out and either terribly over- or under performing), or to then sell us that QoL back in the Gemstore.
There better not be some "Fall Dampener" in the Gemstore soon.
A mastery could be neat though, although that would still feel less unique as an always active, than specing into these Traits did.
Doing some JP and attempting a skip where ever mounts or gliding aren't a thing and then wondering if you can make some jump, just to then remember that there is a trait to reduce falling damage, taking it and then just so surviving, can be a rewarding and engaging gameplay experience (one i had a few times over the years). A falling damage mastery on the other hand is.. functional sure, but utterly boring.
No Falling damage reduction at all anymore just removes all of those jumps, skips and interactions an inquisitive player could previously make, just reducing game complexity.
I do want to urge you not to make changes just for changes sake. Unless you have a design goal in mind of where to take these Traits in the very near future, or ideally in the patch itself, otherwise changes like this just come across as very confused.
Stating 50% Fall damage reduction is too complicated/bloated for people to understand as reasoning for these mostly otherwise one line of text Traits is... odd to say the least.
Also the focus on promoting passive gameplay and modifiers over active gameplay and interactions seems questionable as well.
So we are increasing passive life force from signet of undeath.
That will lead to this:
Support necros don't have to stack as much bonus health as they do right know. (It's done right now to be free in choice for the other 2 utility skills and not having to use life force generators there as well)
So we basically get bonus health lowered and have to pay 50% of base health for the Rez?
That's ~9,5k dmg we dealing to ourself!
Let's compare that to guards signet:
Guard has 15 seconds cooldown more, but doesn't have to pay life for it.
That's an big oof here. Unless this self inflicted dmg can be mitigated with barrier.
If not, that's just a passive signet, that noone will ever use actively.
"Overcomplicating". One line of text is overcomplicating. Jesus this removal is pointless.
If you really wanted to address Fall Damage Reduction traits only being taken for JPs, all you have to do is just add "Combat Only". Then you're free to buff or rework the rest of the trait to make taking FDR as part of a regular build make sense. An example is to simply move FDR to Mecha Legs and change the Grenade aspect of it to something else that fits the traitline. Buff the Grenadier trait with something else and you're done. Something like Peak Performance is fine as is however. If you REALLY wanted to change it, I'd say only reduce fall damage for every enemy it hits.
in a post-glider/mount world
Yeah, that's great but you can't mount in combat, hence my emphasis on the "Combat Only" tag, Only takes a couple more seconds of critical thinking and creativity, Anet.
Yeah, that's great but you can't mount in combat, hence my emphasis on the "Combat Only" tag, Only takes a couple more seconds of critical thinking and creativity, Anet.
@XenoSpyro.1780 said:
"Overcomplicating". One line of text is overcomplicating. Jesus this removal is pointless.
If you really wanted to address Fall Damage Reduction traits only being taken for JPs, all you have to do is just add "Combat Only".
This is a terrible idea, and I felt compelled to make my first ever forum comment because of it. Fall damage reduction traits have tons of usefulness where gliding and mounts are disabled (Fractals, Dungeons, personal stories, sPVP, WvW). This is as bad as when you removed banner skills: a useless nerf that kills creative gameplay and returns nothing to fill the void it creates.
All things in-game that are broken and or need work and this is what is being worked on? ... So how much falling are we going to do in the upcoming Saga? Falling is the new enemy. I like you Robert but I wish this effort was put elsewhere.
Question :
The elementalist trait "Arcane Abatement" casts a field (depending on your attunement) when taking fall damages. These fields are pretty usefull in some situations so here's my question
Does the new trait keep the field cast or do you plain on adding it elsewhere ? Such as "cast a field depending on your attunement on healing skill " ? cause the healing on attunement swap is nice but left alone seems pretty weak maybe?
Mounts / Gliders do not apply in Raids (Twisted Castle) or jumping puzzles as they are disabled.
There are plenty of good reasons to take a fall damage trait here! PvE has good reason for these traits - removal seems a bit nonsensical and the argument because there is now gliding/mounts doesn’t fly imo.
Raids actually heavily use the faster res which can often be essential to revive squad members in order to avoid a mechanic or get them out of a difficult situation to avoid a team wipe. I don’t quite understand why these traits are being worked on when they are non priority items for balance and the -be aspects have not been discussed. I would like to see the pro/cons of making this change in reflect of the above feedback.
Oh rip... Peak Performance's launch cc on fall damage on warrior... I will miss that a lot
It was so fun to trigger in WvW in certain situations
Also, please consider adding rune or food that reduces fall damage, because you know... you cant use mounts and gliders in fractals/dungeons...
Are people seriously complaining about losing fall damage reduction, the trait function that is non essential to any build, is unimportant in 99% of pve, and only slightly useful in wvw? When you hear the argument that anet should just ignore whatever the more casual player base says about game design/balance this is why.
Regarding actual changes, i don;t know if reducing the cooldown of signet of mercy is a good idea given firebrand's dominance in pvp as the go to support, unless there are other changes planned in the same patch that reduce fb's potency.
Removing fall damage traits just seems like a grab at getting F2P players to buy expansions, and if that's your goal then you can at least streamline it into masteries so that we retain the functionality but the F2Pers still have to buy the expos.
Do we have to see this set of changes as the "PvE" changes? I mean, if that's the case, I'm sure PvP/WvW'er will have the right to complains about the consequences of those changes in their respective gamemodes. (Not that any of those make a big difference in PvE anyway)
Please ANet, do remember that shorter cast time on revive skills will result on a flood of complaints in the sPvP subforum.
@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:
Question :
The elementalist trait "Arcane Abatement" casts a field (depending on your attunement) when taking fall damages. These fields are pretty usefull in some situations so here's my question
Does the new trait keep the field cast or do you plain on adding it elsewhere ? Such as "cast a field depending on your attunement on healing skill " ? cause the healing on attunement swap is nice but left alone seems pretty weak maybe?
The odds are that the trait fonctionality will now only be "heal for 330 when you swap attunment".
So we are increasing passive life force from signet of undeath.
That will lead to this:
Support necros don't have to stack as much bonus health as they do right know. (It's done right now to be free in choice for the other 2 utility skills and not having to use life force generators there as well)
So we basically get bonus health lowered and have to pay 50% of base health for the Rez?
That's ~9,5k dmg we dealing to ourself!
Just going to point out that is not how base health works. Necro has a base health of 9212. You then gain 10,000 HP from the 1000 vitality everyone has. The skill will have the same cost as desert shroud,4606 at level 80.
Let's compare that to guards signet:
Guard has 15 seconds cooldown more, but doesn't have to pay life for it.
When you look at the traits it's a different story. You may say nobody takes it but this is a pretty good incentive to do so. I feel it's balanced around how strong it now is when traited.
Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.
Define control effects please. Are we talking hard cc here, or both hard and soft cc?
If just hard cc, then a single stack of 3s torment cannot compete with Plague Sending and it's ability to transfer any amount of stacks from up to two conditions. Not to mention Plague Sending has defensive uses, while Insidious Disruption is supposed to be purely offensive option.
Signet of Undeath: Reduced recharge to 75 seconds in all game modes. Reduced cast time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Reduced number of allies revived from 3 to 1. Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill. Increased passive lifeforce gain by 100%.
Liking this change! This will prolly make Reapers happy campers, giving them core necro level LF degen with Signets of Suffering + Signet of Undeath. Core necros...well yeah, they'll be really tanky, but Death Shroud is the worst shroud, and rarely a core necro has any reason to camp it other then soaking up damage.
Death Shroud itself still needs addressinng, core necro has the worst damage of all professions and specs, completely unable to be competitive in end game PvE.
i would run some of these changes to Cal Cohen, like courageous return having an internal cooldown Last thing we want with the whole tunning everything down is to give guardian perma protection.
Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.
does that mean that even soft controls like blind/slow/cripple / weakness will also cause Torment ?
if so this could be quite poweful ! remember Scourge got more torment damage and also burning when you cause torment .!
The weakest revival skills in effect, condition and cooldown.
90s CD for a projectile skill that creates a r180 field in which allies receive 16% HP per second.
To start with, you need line-of-sight, no projectile hate and no body-block to put the field down.
Then for a low HP downed it takes 5s to actually revive without any incoming damage.
There is no protection against conditions, projectiles or any source of damage. Heal is also reduced when you have poison.
Even in a dedicated build with tools and HGH you got a 60s CD on tossing.
Of course, you get a 30s CD skill in addition that gives endurance and removes immo (but not stun, or cripple, slow/chill). But it's hard to imagine a build where this is a better addition than using evade-sigil + kit.
How about making Toss-R unblockable or non-projectile and the field projectile absorbing? Then it's still awfully slow at reviving, but actually a revival skill. Also, a 40s CD would probably fit its effect better.
The falling damage change is on par with the Chrono rework: it removes tons of minor fun, situational interactions that added depth and variety into the game. Even WvW aside, there are new players that want to go through the vanilla experience without mounts and gliders, there are jumping puzzles, and there are meta shenanigans where those choices added to the experience.
Gimmicky revival-focused builds were also fun, that was a specific playstyle that could exist. Was that so much of an issue in PvPs to remove even its possibility from everywhere?
Or is it that some database is running out of parameter slots so those two have to be removed to make space for others? /headscratch
@Gamander.7269 said:
You're forgetting that there are free-2-play accounts that don't have gliding. In WvW fall damage reduction was obligatory for those accounts.
Strongly disagree. I dont have HoT nor PoF on my alt. As such i can only run core builds (obviously). The only falling damage reduction trait i use is Peak Performance on my warrior. Even that is because it gives me extra damage on physical skills. Or in rare occasions surprise my enemies with a cc when i want to jump on top of them. But the moments i like to benefit from falling damage reduction is non- existing. Never felt the need for it.
Also, @Robert Gee.9246 since you're revisiting these kind of traits. Perhaps you may want to look at/change Rune of Snowfall as well.
I dont see why the fall damage had to be removed. Not like you gave us anything new for taking that away. Now this is gonna affect the players who likes jumping puzzles where we cannot use mounts or gliders. I always used to trait for falling damage reduction while doing a JP just to avoid the risk of falling and dying. I mean, it wouldn't really hurt for it to be there especially since we're not getting any other additional bonus for the trait. Just my thoughts
"All the talent in this world won't take you anywhere without your Teammates
Trust them, Res them, Support them"
Protectors Impact: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Protector's Restoration".
Signet of Mercy: Reduced recharge to 90 seconds in all game modes. Changed passive effect from granting 180 healing power (216 when traited) to granting 120 concentration (150 when traited).
Protective Reviver: This trait no longer increases revival speed and no longer grants boons on a successful revival. Fixed skill fact to show correct 3 second duration. Fixed a bug which prevented the recharge of Lesser Shield of Absorption from being affected by Stalwart Defender. Lesser Shield of Absorption now heals nearby allies when it ends. This trait now causes all versions of Shield of Absorption to revive allies by 15% when it detonates.
Courageous Return: This trait has been reworked and it has been renamed to "Stalwart Courage". It grants the guardian Protection for 3 seconds whenever aegis on the guardian is removed due to blocking an attack.
Is there going to be an Internal cooldown for this new Courageous Return trait ? I see this is going to be an issue since Firebrands can put out constant aegis and thus having perma protection uptime. It should probably have a 12 second cooldown which pretty much goes in line with Guard counter trait of spellbreaker since full counter has a 12 sec cooldown.
"All the talent in this world won't take you anywhere without your Teammates
Trust them, Res them, Support them"
@noiwk.2760 said:
Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.
does that mean that even soft controls like blind/slow/cripple / weakness will also cause Torment ?
if so this could be quite poweful ! remember Scourge got more torment damage and also burning when you cause torment .!
Nope, it's only on hard CC. Knowing ANet it could even end up either only affect fear or only affecting pure hard CC (WH#4, GS#5, spectral grasp, RS#5). They probably worded it poorly and meant "disabling" effect instead or the wide crowd control effects.
guess i cant jump onto enemies anymore and watch them fly away feelsbadman
if they are so "useless" anyways, just leave them on for those ppl who actually use them
they do give a good advantage in wvw roaming over ppl who dont have them
we all know you wont touch those traits anytime soon, so no reason to mess with it, until you actually know what else you gonna give for it.
if you just remove it now it feels like we just lose something cool for nothing
While I agree these traits are niche, they are usefull at times as others already stated.
I really do appreciate falling damage trait when doing a JP or fighting on height with a moderate chance to fall off.
Additionally, I really like some falling effect like warrior knock back. It can be very strong in some situations.
I understand it is not commonly used. What if these falling damage reduction and/or effect be merged with their corresponding minor adept trait?
That effect would be restricted to falling damage and not heal as it might be the case today.
It could lead to OP minor adept, but at least, falling damage reduction alone could be enough.
Wow... what a pointless change and a waste of dev time. No wonder we get no real content, you guys are wasting valuable time on these sort of things.
I went from 30h per week to about 1h per week in WvW. Also, no more $$ from me until you add something that deserves it.
@noiwk.2760 said:
Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.
does that mean that even soft controls like blind/slow/cripple / weakness will also cause Torment ?
if so this could be quite poweful ! remember Scourge got more torment damage and also burning when you cause torment .!
Nope, it's only on hard CC. Knowing ANet it could even end up either only affect fear or only affecting pure hard CC (WH#4, GS#5, spectral grasp, RS#5). They probably worded it poorly and meant "disabling" effect instead or the wide crowd control effects.
if its hard cc then it sucks and not worth.. but they clearly say control effects .. ? i guess we gotta wait and see.. i start disliking this game to be honest . or not disliking but turned down by it patch after patch.. they keep making only handful of builds worth playing and its just not fun anymore.. i hate to see gurdian which is super broken and most op class in every game mode only gettig buffed and necro which literally sucks in every game mode only getting nerfed with every patch.. warrior support does mode damage than a full DPS necro.. i find it kitten. support ele ... offers basically nothing at all but good healing (which is already meh in the current game state) and they nerf it .. idk how they figure out these changes really.. but i can say if its only hard cc ima just literally delete my Scourge.. not just undress it but delete it so it wont appear on their data .. and i suggest all necro players do the same
Please do not remove the fall damage aspect. these traits are fine you can just remove revive speed and leave everything else alone.
just stop dont do this you are hurting small scale in wvw even more with these awful changes
we dont need more revive buffs for all classes when some dont have any or theirs is just bad in comparison
@Robert Gee.9246 said:
At this point we felt it just makes more sense to remove the fall damage portion, which leaves some design space if we want to buff these traits in the future.
If you're going to remove those portions of the traits, then why not buff them now to compensate? I understand that fall damage reduction was niche, but there were some instances in which it was really useful. Removing them without otherwise buffing the traits they were attached to is still a straight up nerf.
I'll miss landing with a big boom and knocking enemies back on my warrior (this was always fun in Dragonfall against those things that toss you up in the sky), but I definitely see why this makes sense.
This affects one raid instance, too. In Twisted Castle, there's a strategy that involves a Mesmer taking Descent Into Madness and jumping off a ledge by a doorway and onto the top of a staircase, and then portaling the squad to the Mesmer's location, while the Mesmer looks at the statues to keep them from chasing people, and Focus 4's them into a safe location. This allows the squad to hit all the remaining buttons off the main pathway, allowing everyone to resume taking the normal path.
Removing Falling damage doesn't make this strategy impossible, but it certainly makes it much more difficult. Now, instead of trying to jump for the staircase, the Mesmer will be asked to jump to the top of the archway on top of the staircase for portal, since that's just enough distance to not be lethal. That job will be harder.
Count me in as disappointed in losing fall damage reduction as well. Sure it might not be a go-to trait, but it has it's uses when doing various things. Jumping puzzles and WvW being the major ones.
It's cool that you're optimising the traits for future updates, but I feel like the damage reduction should still be available somehow. Possibly as a mastery?
Does this mean we will be getting the ability to use gliding and mounts in all areas of the game, including instances? There are still uses for such traits and as is currently people have to make a choice to use these traits instead of receiving another benefit.
I don't see why people complain about the removal of fall damage traits. If you can't do a jumping puzzle without, you dont deserve to finish that. As simple as it is. Also who wants passive skill activation for example in WvW. Just start playing the game properly and stop complaining about things that require no active skill usage, you can easily fix that issue by using your brain while you play
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@Dreggon.6598 said:
Could you move the fall damage reduction onto some of the minor traits instead? Sometimes - in PvE at least - I really, really need fall damage reduction. Usually when I'm doing a jumping puzzle that doesn't allow gliders, or I have some distance to fall but it's a biiiit further than I'd survive otherwise.
I like the Signet of Undeath change a lot. Hopefully you can also look at Signet of Spite sometime - a power signet that applies a bunch of damaging conditions doesn't make a lot of sense.
Courageous Return definitely needs a PvP/WvW split.
Get position rewinder you can use it while you're falling.
@Robert Gee.9246
Please reconsider that health cost for signet of undeath.
Im not against the idea just that cost is way to too much for only 1 target revival unless this thing bings back a fully defeated player lol.
Increasing the passive was a good choice for all forums of necromancer 👍
but 50% of base hp to save 1 person is not worth it in my opinion. Even if i want to play a support form of necromancer ill take my chances with transfusion + f before this thats far more risk than reward its not in anyway balanced in weight which is often the case with a a lot of necromancer things (looking at you Unholy Martyr and Trait boosted Plague signet).
I would much rather suffer a higher cd for less health cost on active 20% maybe even 25% but 50% is far too much.
Or why not have it consume life force considering the signets passive is all about generating life force.🤔
Overall the direction for this is not bad but can we get the cost for the caster balanced a bit better to the reward.
Reducing the cooldown of traited search and rescue (Allies Aid) won't help much. It already has become a niche trait. Removing the rezz speed bonus from it is just another blow in the face to ranger. Id rather have the old longer cooldown with a proper replacement for the lost rezz speed increase.
Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.
Signet of Undeath: Reduced recharge to 75 seconds in all game modes. Reduced cast time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Reduced number of allies revived from 3 to 1. Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill. Increased passive lifeforce gain by 100%.
For pve heal scourges could it please retain 3 targets? Give 15% health cost per target to have overall same cost but please don't nuke pve players for WvW sins (the whole either self or shade already made heal scourge worse -- it could have been 10 targets self, 5+5 if shade is present for pve only)
Comments
oh oh i like that!!
When this is going to be set up, I'm going to laugh in W3 "castle" (raid)
Rain of death mesmers ^^
This trait is fine if the game was balanced, and that the players had not enough easily and in too many numbers to block, dodge, blindly, invulnerability, resistance, stability,...
Too bad I thought in your first post that it increased the 100% life force that you generated that would have been a more pro-active sign.
On the other hand it's really a shame that you didn't change the actif sign.
One rez we don't need it in necro we have the whole blood line which is based on the rez if we want.
Maybe Active sign :
Something that Aoe heal or something that would allow us that our life can't go below 50% of life for X seconds for example that would go well with the name of the sign.
Can we commit suicide by activating this sign?
Is the damage inflicted on us if the person is rez by the sign or activation?
Is there a condition to this sign because if it is rez before or died before, it still inflicts damage on us?
Besides it wouldn't be bad if all the weapons skills of the necro generate LF + spectral skills so you could do many more spells by assigning them something else in addition as half of the skills of the necro and these spe are useless.
Got to say, I quite enjoyed some of these Traits, especially Protectors Impact on my Heal Brand and Symbol Brand, assisting in some skips and just having fun with it. Sure it was niche Utility, but Utility nontheless. Now that is just gone without replacement or compensation, making the Trait just look fairly meh. Maybe reduce the CD a little bit and make Writ of Persistence actually increase the duration of the Symbol by the listed 2 seconds, rather than just one?
For Terrifying Descent I'm looking forward to the change, since one stack of 3 seconds of Torment on Fear every 30 seconds was just terrible, but I have a feeling you are still going to give it a way too long ICD, rather than just triggering on every CC, meaning it probably still won't be able to compete with Plague Sending, even as damage option via BIP etc, while lacking the Utility that provides.
The added health sacrifice in addition to the target reduction to Signet of Undeath seems just once again like some weird thematic choice for Necro over viability or functionality, just adding design bloat. The increase to the passive LF generation may be nice, but I don't see this skill ever being used as anything but a purely passive LF generator, if even that. Not sure what the goal here was, the skill already wasn't actively used (both in terms of being used at all, and even more so the active component of it).
For Peak Performance, I don't know why you are nerfing the active component to then add a passive buff. Imo we should get less passive modifiers and move towards more active combo elements, and this seems like a step backwards in terms of Skill/Trait design.
(also, on a small unrelated note, in the 1 year since the change to Forceful Greatsword you still haven't noticed/addressed that it's still giving the 10% Damage buff to GS Skills, on top of the 120*2 Power that was supposed to replace it, and the CD reduction, and the Might on hit, despite stating in January this year that it was fixed)
In general I don't like this trend of removing Quality of Life from the game with either the promise of future changes which then either never come or just years down the road (often poorly thought out and either terribly over- or under performing), or to then sell us that QoL back in the Gemstore.
There better not be some "Fall Dampener" in the Gemstore soon.
A mastery could be neat though, although that would still feel less unique as an always active, than specing into these Traits did.
Doing some JP and attempting a skip where ever mounts or gliding aren't a thing and then wondering if you can make some jump, just to then remember that there is a trait to reduce falling damage, taking it and then just so surviving, can be a rewarding and engaging gameplay experience (one i had a few times over the years). A falling damage mastery on the other hand is.. functional sure, but utterly boring.
No Falling damage reduction at all anymore just removes all of those jumps, skips and interactions an inquisitive player could previously make, just reducing game complexity.
I do want to urge you not to make changes just for changes sake. Unless you have a design goal in mind of where to take these Traits in the very near future, or ideally in the patch itself, otherwise changes like this just come across as very confused.
Stating 50% Fall damage reduction is too complicated/bloated for people to understand as reasoning for these mostly otherwise one line of text Traits is... odd to say the least.
Also the focus on promoting passive gameplay and modifiers over active gameplay and interactions seems questionable as well.
R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019
Wait wait wait.
So we are increasing passive life force from signet of undeath.
That will lead to this:
Support necros don't have to stack as much bonus health as they do right know. (It's done right now to be free in choice for the other 2 utility skills and not having to use life force generators there as well)
So we basically get bonus health lowered and have to pay 50% of base health for the Rez?
That's ~9,5k dmg we dealing to ourself!
Let's compare that to guards signet:
Guard has 15 seconds cooldown more, but doesn't have to pay life for it.
That's an big oof here. Unless this self inflicted dmg can be mitigated with barrier.
If not, that's just a passive signet, that noone will ever use actively.
Just like some other necro skills I guess
"Overcomplicating". One line of text is overcomplicating. Jesus this removal is pointless.
If you really wanted to address Fall Damage Reduction traits only being taken for JPs, all you have to do is just add "Combat Only". Then you're free to buff or rework the rest of the trait to make taking FDR as part of a regular build make sense. An example is to simply move FDR to Mecha Legs and change the Grenade aspect of it to something else that fits the traitline. Buff the Grenadier trait with something else and you're done. Something like Peak Performance is fine as is however. If you REALLY wanted to change it, I'd say only reduce fall damage for every enemy it hits.
Yeah, that's great but you can't mount in combat, hence my emphasis on the "Combat Only" tag, Only takes a couple more seconds of critical thinking and creativity, Anet.
That's what the balance team always excelled at.
Whoa whoa whoa, that's TWO lines, then.
This is a terrible idea, and I felt compelled to make my first ever forum comment because of it. Fall damage reduction traits have tons of usefulness where gliding and mounts are disabled (Fractals, Dungeons, personal stories, sPVP, WvW). This is as bad as when you removed banner skills: a useless nerf that kills creative gameplay and returns nothing to fill the void it creates.
Don't punish niche players.
All things in-game that are broken and or need work and this is what is being worked on? ... So how much falling are we going to do in the upcoming Saga? Falling is the new enemy. I like you Robert but I wish this effort was put elsewhere.
Question :
The elementalist trait "Arcane Abatement" casts a field (depending on your attunement) when taking fall damages. These fields are pretty usefull in some situations so here's my question
Does the new trait keep the field cast or do you plain on adding it elsewhere ? Such as "cast a field depending on your attunement on healing skill " ? cause the healing on attunement swap is nice but left alone seems pretty weak maybe?
So since the thinking here is that we don't need these traits because Gliders/Mounts that you'll now be allowing mounts and gliders in all JPs.
Na I think it is rather because it is not needed I think.
I think if they can do "no glide/no mount" zones they can do "soft fall" zones too.
Mounts / Gliders do not apply in Raids (Twisted Castle) or jumping puzzles as they are disabled.
There are plenty of good reasons to take a fall damage trait here! PvE has good reason for these traits - removal seems a bit nonsensical and the argument because there is now gliding/mounts doesn’t fly imo.
Raids actually heavily use the faster res which can often be essential to revive squad members in order to avoid a mechanic or get them out of a difficult situation to avoid a team wipe. I don’t quite understand why these traits are being worked on when they are non priority items for balance and the -be aspects have not been discussed. I would like to see the pro/cons of making this change in reflect of the above feedback.
Oh rip... Peak Performance's launch cc on fall damage on warrior... I will miss that a lot
It was so fun to trigger in WvW in certain situations
Also, please consider adding rune or food that reduces fall damage, because you know... you cant use mounts and gliders in fractals/dungeons...
R.I.P. mesmer portal carry in Twisted Castle?
You're forgetting that there are free-2-play accounts that don't have gliding. In WvW fall damage reduction was obligatory for those accounts.
Are people seriously complaining about losing fall damage reduction, the trait function that is non essential to any build, is unimportant in 99% of pve, and only slightly useful in wvw? When you hear the argument that anet should just ignore whatever the more casual player base says about game design/balance this is why.
Regarding actual changes, i don;t know if reducing the cooldown of signet of mercy is a good idea given firebrand's dominance in pvp as the go to support, unless there are other changes planned in the same patch that reduce fb's potency.
Removing fall damage traits just seems like a grab at getting F2P players to buy expansions, and if that's your goal then you can at least streamline it into masteries so that we retain the functionality but the F2Pers still have to buy the expos.
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Do we have to see this set of changes as the "PvE" changes? I mean, if that's the case, I'm sure PvP/WvW'er will have the right to complains about the consequences of those changes in their respective gamemodes. (Not that any of those make a big difference in PvE anyway)
Please ANet, do remember that shorter cast time on revive skills will result on a flood of complaints in the sPvP subforum.
The odds are that the trait fonctionality will now only be "heal for 330 when you swap attunment".
Just going to point out that is not how base health works. Necro has a base health of 9212. You then gain 10,000 HP from the 1000 vitality everyone has. The skill will have the same cost as desert shroud,4606 at level 80.
When you look at the traits it's a different story. You may say nobody takes it but this is a pretty good incentive to do so. I feel it's balanced around how strong it now is when traited.
Define control effects please. Are we talking hard cc here, or both hard and soft cc?
If just hard cc, then a single stack of 3s torment cannot compete with Plague Sending and it's ability to transfer any amount of stacks from up to two conditions. Not to mention Plague Sending has defensive uses, while Insidious Disruption is supposed to be purely offensive option.
Liking this change! This will prolly make Reapers happy campers, giving them core necro level LF degen with Signets of Suffering + Signet of Undeath. Core necros...well yeah, they'll be really tanky, but Death Shroud is the worst shroud, and rarely a core necro has any reason to camp it other then soaking up damage.
Death Shroud itself still needs addressinng, core necro has the worst damage of all professions and specs, completely unable to be competitive in end game PvE.
i would run some of these changes to Cal Cohen, like courageous return having an internal cooldown Last thing we want with the whole tunning everything down is to give guardian perma protection.
Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.
does that mean that even soft controls like blind/slow/cripple / weakness will also cause Torment ?
if so this could be quite poweful ! remember Scourge got more torment damage and also burning when you cause torment .!
Hi,
Why not make the fall damage reduction baseline then ? Or even better, make the whole effect (full with profession-specific aoe) baseline.
What the kitten? Hey, remember when Corruptions dealt damage to you because that was their theme? Can we keep it to that, please?
Before you know it Necro is gonna need to sacrifice health to use it's heal for god sake.
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So... Toss Elixir R is fine?
The weakest revival skills in effect, condition and cooldown.
90s CD for a projectile skill that creates a r180 field in which allies receive 16% HP per second.
To start with, you need line-of-sight, no projectile hate and no body-block to put the field down.
Then for a low HP downed it takes 5s to actually revive without any incoming damage.
There is no protection against conditions, projectiles or any source of damage. Heal is also reduced when you have poison.
Even in a dedicated build with tools and HGH you got a 60s CD on tossing.
Of course, you get a 30s CD skill in addition that gives endurance and removes immo (but not stun, or cripple, slow/chill). But it's hard to imagine a build where this is a better addition than using evade-sigil + kit.
How about making Toss-R unblockable or non-projectile and the field projectile absorbing? Then it's still awfully slow at reviving, but actually a revival skill. Also, a 40s CD would probably fit its effect better.
The falling damage change is on par with the Chrono rework: it removes tons of minor fun, situational interactions that added depth and variety into the game. Even WvW aside, there are new players that want to go through the vanilla experience without mounts and gliders, there are jumping puzzles, and there are meta shenanigans where those choices added to the experience.
Gimmicky revival-focused builds were also fun, that was a specific playstyle that could exist. Was that so much of an issue in PvPs to remove even its possibility from everywhere?
Or is it that some database is running out of parameter slots so those two have to be removed to make space for others? /headscratch
Fall damage reduction will be removed completely from game? not even introduce new runes or sigils that reduce fall damage?
Another nerf disguised as balance change? Thank goodness I have stopped playing this game : D
Strongly disagree. I dont have HoT nor PoF on my alt. As such i can only run core builds (obviously). The only falling damage reduction trait i use is Peak Performance on my warrior. Even that is because it gives me extra damage on physical skills. Or in rare occasions surprise my enemies with a cc when i want to jump on top of them. But the moments i like to benefit from falling damage reduction is non- existing. Never felt the need for it.
Also, @Robert Gee.9246 since you're revisiting these kind of traits. Perhaps you may want to look at/change Rune of Snowfall as well.
No, you never needed that trait to begin with. Just dodge down and land on the portal instead of jumping and you will survive.
I dont see why the fall damage had to be removed. Not like you gave us anything new for taking that away. Now this is gonna affect the players who likes jumping puzzles where we cannot use mounts or gliders. I always used to trait for falling damage reduction while doing a JP just to avoid the risk of falling and dying. I mean, it wouldn't really hurt for it to be there especially since we're not getting any other additional bonus for the trait. Just my thoughts
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Is there going to be an Internal cooldown for this new Courageous Return trait ? I see this is going to be an issue since Firebrands can put out constant aegis and thus having perma protection uptime. It should probably have a 12 second cooldown which pretty much goes in line with Guard counter trait of spellbreaker since full counter has a 12 sec cooldown.
"All the talent in this world won't take you anywhere without your Teammates
Trust them, Res them, Support them"
Nope, it's only on hard CC. Knowing ANet it could even end up either only affect fear or only affecting pure hard CC (WH#4, GS#5, spectral grasp, RS#5). They probably worded it poorly and meant "disabling" effect instead or the wide crowd control effects.
guess i cant jump onto enemies anymore and watch them fly away
feelsbadman
if they are so "useless" anyways, just leave them on for those ppl who actually use them
they do give a good advantage in wvw roaming over ppl who dont have them
we all know you wont touch those traits anytime soon, so no reason to mess with it, until you actually know what else you gonna give for it.
if you just remove it now it feels like we just lose something cool for nothing
no Falling damage reduction? Then much more team wipe in ATM next year.
While I agree these traits are niche, they are usefull at times as others already stated.
I really do appreciate falling damage trait when doing a JP or fighting on height with a moderate chance to fall off.
Additionally, I really like some falling effect like warrior knock back. It can be very strong in some situations.
I understand it is not commonly used. What if these falling damage reduction and/or effect be merged with their corresponding minor adept trait?
That effect would be restricted to falling damage and not heal as it might be the case today.
It could lead to OP minor adept, but at least, falling damage reduction alone could be enough.
Wow... what a pointless change and a waste of dev time. No wonder we get no real content, you guys are wasting valuable time on these sort of things.
I went from 30h per week to about 1h per week in WvW. Also, no more $$ from me until you add something that deserves it.
if its hard cc then it sucks and not worth.. but they clearly say control effects .. ? i guess we gotta wait and see.. i start disliking this game to be honest . or not disliking but turned down by it patch after patch.. they keep making only handful of builds worth playing and its just not fun anymore.. i hate to see gurdian which is super broken and most op class in every game mode only gettig buffed and necro which literally sucks in every game mode only getting nerfed with every patch.. warrior support does mode damage than a full DPS necro.. i find it kitten. support ele ... offers basically nothing at all but good healing (which is already meh in the current game state) and they nerf it .. idk how they figure out these changes really.. but i can say if its only hard cc ima just literally delete my Scourge.. not just undress it but delete it so it wont appear on their data .. and i suggest all necro players do the same
Sadly, this is most likely a prophetic statement.
~Cleetus
Please do not remove the fall damage aspect. these traits are fine you can just remove revive speed and leave everything else alone.
just stop dont do this you are hurting small scale in wvw even more with these awful changes
we dont need more revive buffs for all classes when some dont have any or theirs is just bad in comparison
Fall damage reduction traits matter!
If you're going to remove those portions of the traits, then why not buff them now to compensate? I understand that fall damage reduction was niche, but there were some instances in which it was really useful. Removing them without otherwise buffing the traits they were attached to is still a straight up nerf.
I'll miss landing with a big boom and knocking enemies back on my warrior (this was always fun in Dragonfall against those things that toss you up in the sky), but I definitely see why this makes sense.
Fair enough.
This affects one raid instance, too. In Twisted Castle, there's a strategy that involves a Mesmer taking Descent Into Madness and jumping off a ledge by a doorway and onto the top of a staircase, and then portaling the squad to the Mesmer's location, while the Mesmer looks at the statues to keep them from chasing people, and Focus 4's them into a safe location. This allows the squad to hit all the remaining buttons off the main pathway, allowing everyone to resume taking the normal path.
Removing Falling damage doesn't make this strategy impossible, but it certainly makes it much more difficult. Now, instead of trying to jump for the staircase, the Mesmer will be asked to jump to the top of the archway on top of the staircase for portal, since that's just enough distance to not be lethal. That job will be harder.
Count me in as disappointed in losing fall damage reduction as well. Sure it might not be a go-to trait, but it has it's uses when doing various things. Jumping puzzles and WvW being the major ones.
It's cool that you're optimising the traits for future updates, but I feel like the damage reduction should still be available somehow. Possibly as a mastery?
Does this mean we will be getting the ability to use gliding and mounts in all areas of the game, including instances? There are still uses for such traits and as is currently people have to make a choice to use these traits instead of receiving another benefit.
I don't see why people complain about the removal of fall damage traits. If you can't do a jumping puzzle without, you dont deserve to finish that. As simple as it is. Also who wants passive skill activation for example in WvW. Just start playing the game properly and stop complaining about things that require no active skill usage, you can easily fix that issue by using your brain while you play
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Get position rewinder you can use it while you're falling.
@Robert Gee.9246
Please reconsider that health cost for signet of undeath.
Im not against the idea just that cost is way to too much for only 1 target revival unless this thing bings back a fully defeated player lol.
Increasing the passive was a good choice for all forums of necromancer 👍
but 50% of base hp to save 1 person is not worth it in my opinion. Even if i want to play a support form of necromancer ill take my chances with transfusion + f before this thats far more risk than reward its not in anyway balanced in weight which is often the case with a a lot of necromancer things (looking at you Unholy Martyr and Trait boosted Plague signet).
I would much rather suffer a higher cd for less health cost on active 20% maybe even 25% but 50% is far too much.
Or why not have it consume life force considering the signets passive is all about generating life force.🤔
Overall the direction for this is not bad but can we get the cost for the caster balanced a bit better to the reward.
Reducing the cooldown of traited search and rescue (Allies Aid) won't help much. It already has become a niche trait. Removing the rezz speed bonus from it is just another blow in the face to ranger. Id rather have the old longer cooldown with a proper replacement for the lost rezz speed increase.
For pve heal scourges could it please retain 3 targets? Give 15% health cost per target to have overall same cost but please don't nuke pve players for WvW sins (the whole either self or shade already made heal scourge worse -- it could have been 10 targets self, 5+5 if shade is present for pve only)