Infiltrator Arrow

Leonidrex.5649 · December 5, 2020

@darren.1064 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Gandrogh.1530 tif players CAN sidenode, and beat the kitten out of things like warriors with degen perma blind fields pistol builds that spam leech on blind.but its boring as kitten tbh, s/d can for example easy win against burn DH, you have hard time beating renegods but then again everyone has hard time beating them so its not much of an argument is it

So your argument for thief being able to fight on sides is that they're able to kill another dead profession?

and your indicator that thief cant be on side nodes is since it cant beat 1 specific prof? despite being able to beat other classes that are also meta?cought DH, holo cough

darren.1064 · December 5, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@darren.1064 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Gandrogh.1530 tif players CAN sidenode, and beat the kitten out of things like warriors with degen perma blind fields pistol builds that spam leech on blind.but its boring as kitten tbh, s/d can for example easy win against burn DH, you have hard time beating renegods but then again everyone has hard time beating them so its not much of an argument is it

So your argument for thief being able to fight on sides is that they're able to kill another dead profession?

and your indicator that thief cant be on side nodes is since it cant beat 1 specific prof? despite being able to beat other classes that are also meta?cought DH, holo cough

both DH and Holo counter thief. If they're dying to a thief then it isn't because thief is superior, it's because the thief was just the better player.

Leonidrex.5649 · December 5, 2020

@darren.1064 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@darren.1064 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Gandrogh.1530 tif players CAN sidenode, and beat the kitten out of things like warriors with degen perma blind fields pistol builds that spam leech on blind.but its boring as kitten tbh, s/d can for example easy win against burn DH, you have hard time beating renegods but then again everyone has hard time beating them so its not much of an argument is it

So your argument for thief being able to fight on sides is that they're able to kill another dead profession?

and your indicator that thief cant be on side nodes is since it cant beat 1 specific prof? despite being able to beat other classes that are also meta?cought DH, holo cough

both DH and Holo counter thief. If they're dying to a thief then it isn't because thief is superior, it's because the thief was just the better player.

both DH and holo counter meta thief, if they are dying to META thief then its because META thief is supperior

darren.1064 · December 5, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@darren.1064 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@darren.1064 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Gandrogh.1530 tif players CAN sidenode, and beat the kitten out of things like warriors with degen perma blind fields pistol builds that spam leech on blind.but its boring as kitten tbh, s/d can for example easy win against burn DH, you have hard time beating renegods but then again everyone has hard time beating them so its not much of an argument is it

So your argument for thief being able to fight on sides is that they're able to kill another dead profession?

and your indicator that thief cant be on side nodes is since it cant beat 1 specific prof? despite being able to beat other classes that are also meta?cought DH, holo cough

both DH and Holo counter thief. If they're dying to a thief then it isn't because thief is superior, it's because the thief was just the better player.

both DH and holo counter meta thief, if they are dying to META thief then its because META thief is supperior

Both DH and Holo have a lower skill floor and ceiling than Thief. I would seriously bet that meta thief isn't superior, the thief player is just better. I used to be a hardcore top 100 player every season that played 400-500 games a season, but now I just casually play and i'm currently at 60 games this season. I beat holo and DH players in my gold games, but it isn't because thief is better than them. I simply know the tricks to kill them because I've fought a lot of them and I've fought the best of them. Going into gold and killing some average holos and DHs is lightwork, but if the holo/DH was on my level or better then they would utterly destroy me. That's how simple it is.

PvP in GW2 functions like multi-dimensional rock, paper, scissors. The thing is that the second dimension is skill factoring in and so while DH and Holo were designed and are even currently maintained to counter thief-- the difference in experience factors in greatly.

Wisdom.4712 · December 5, 2020

If any DH, holo or SB manage to lose to a thief (any build) on node 1v1 they are extraordinarily below average players.

Terrorhuz.4695 · December 5, 2020

@DoomNexus.5324 said:So if you cast even 1 IA now, you don't even have enough to pull of a stealth combo so you have to wait for the missing initiative regenerated.This means you either have to slow down entering combat A LOT because you have to stand around waiting or you have to skip IA entirely..

Where's the negative side?

Psycoprophet.8107 · December 6, 2020

@darren.1064 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@darren.1064 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Gandrogh.1530 tif players CAN sidenode, and beat the kitten out of things like warriors with degen perma blind fields pistol builds that spam leech on blind.but its boring as kitten tbh, s/d can for example easy win against burn DH, you have hard time beating renegods but then again everyone has hard time beating them so its not much of an argument is it

So your argument for thief being able to fight on sides is that they're able to kill another dead profession?

and your indicator that thief cant be on side nodes is since it cant beat 1 specific prof? despite being able to beat other classes that are also meta?cought DH, holo cough

both DH and Holo counter thief. If they're dying to a thief then it isn't because thief is superior, it's because the thief was just the better player.

People often forget that one key factor.....there ARE better players.A thief can 100% beat any class if the player is clearly more skilled than his opponent. Thief also has counters and is countered just as every class has counters and is countered. I love how people use s/d as a side noder example cuz it counters revs and guards not to mention its thiefs only decent weapon set for that scanario or team fights for that matter as if that makes them viable sidenode now lol. These forums are too much.

Chips.7968 · December 6, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day

Is blink a utility or weapon skill? Shadow step is a utility skill with 50s cooldown vs 35s is it? Both are stun breaks. Are you trying to say if they fail their shadowstep they can still switch to short bow and IA away, or were you comparing a utility stun break teleport with a weapon skill.

DoomNexus.5324 · December 6, 2020

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:
@"DoomNexus.5324" said:So if you cast even 1 IA now, you don't even have enough to pull of a stealth combo so you have to wait for the missing initiative regenerated.This means you either have to slow down entering combat A LOT because you have to stand around waiting or you have to skip IA entirely..

Where's the negative side?

There is none, it's just the effect of the IA nerf. Unfortunately we don't get any insight on the reasoning behind the balance changes in this patch (sad to see Anet ditched this habit again btw) but if all the statements cluttered in the forums are true and this is indeed to target the high mobility of thief then the change was an utter failure tbh.If the target was to slow down thief a bit in general and make it clunkier to play then it kinda worked I guess.

I've overreacted at first ngl, thought shortbow is useless now (which for most viable builds is the only secondary weapon that actually makes sense due to sharing the ini pool btw.. anyway). But the more matches I've been playing and the more I've been thinking about how the changes affect the playstyle of a typical thief build, the more I'm leaning towards the opinion that this change doesn't do a lot other than annoying thief players because they have to relearn their timings and slowing down their game a bit. This includes roaming ofc so you could say it "worked as intended"? idk.My guess would also be that the change is primarily targeted at nerfing disengage capabilities anyway, not mobility in general or roaming in particular.Since this is actually the only circumstance where having to wait those 2 extra seconds mid-fight to be able to cast IA is a crucial difference but then again you are now just forced to disengage earlier or not spend as much initiative during the fight. Which is actually a kinda useful thing ngl, because it forces thieves to learn and play more cautiously and not waste resources because they get greedy or something. I think since the patch dropped I'm more aware of my resources and improved my thief play quite a bit. The only matches I've lost the last couple days were against (almost) full condi comps.

My main criticism still stands tho, tweaking with initiative costs to influence play style is an awful way of balancing (since it affects EVERYTHING aka has a lot of side effects) and Anet could've done or at least tried a couple different things. My suggestion to nerf overall mobility would still be to add charges to IA and keep the initiative cost where it was.

Cynz.9437 · December 7, 2020

@azzardome.9184 said:man pls buff thief, class trash :(

I wouldn't say trash i do wish thief had more options (e.g. support, give me baaaard plzzz) beside being only decap bot. I know, i know, other classes have same issues but frankly i think there would be less complains about having 2 thieves on team, less complaining about nature of the thief, maybe more viable spots in raids and also less cases of wvw zergs instantly kicking thief players if the class had more roles. All that xpacs brought us were just another annoying dps specs that is why even 8? years later we still mostly run d/p with some s/d and rifle in between and generate hate in the community. On other hand think about how meta changed for example for guards or engi, at some points they were running support, node holder, side noder, decap builds, straight dmg etc. I currently don't have enough equipment slots and templates because... of my mesmer. Yep, not thief, but mesmer.

Styros.8931 · December 8, 2020

@azzardome.9184 said:man pls buff thief, class trash :(class is trash if you playing non pistol / dagger, dagger / pistol weapon set. If you playing pistol its broken trash with 1 shots or endless blind/free stealth restealth

DoomNexus.5324 · December 8, 2020

@Styros.8931 said:
@azzardome.9184 said:man pls buff thief, class trash :(class is trash if you playing non pistol / dagger, dagger / pistol weapon set. If you playing pistol its broken trash with 1 shots or endless blind/free stealth restealth

Ye no, whatever.. troll..

Jekkt.6045 · December 8, 2020

@Cynz.9437 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@Anomaly.7612 said:
@"Vavume.8065" said:Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change.

You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle.

Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done.

All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke.

I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't.I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it.I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too.

Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take.

When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players.

Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play.

But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is.

I am actually confused now. I thought the main consensus was that thief is ez to play, free win, etc. which people basically used to justify any kind of hate/nerf wishes for the class. Now i read this. So which is it actually?Also, i really would like to remind the community that there have been been times in this game when thieves were built more around evades/dodges and dueling - everyone screamed bloody murder and begged for nerfs, because, oh wonder, thieves playing those builds didn't just lie down and gave free point. Honestly, be careful of what you wish for.

Does anyone remember the initial explanation from Anet, why thief fighting capability got heavily nerfed pre-HoT? Right, it was mobility. Every patch since then has been justified with "teef should be decapper, not dueler". Now they nerfed mobility (once again) and i do have one question at dev team: what should thief be? What does dev team actually invisions thief to be? It is like mesmers should be clone masters yet balance patch would reduce max number of clones to 1 because people get annoyed by the screen clutter or just hate to fight mesmers.

basically everything has been nerfed on thief already at least once. why? because most of the stuff is abuseable. i remember when thief was played with double s/d for a short while. jesus christ was that an abomination of a build. not long after that they nerfed flanking strike and ini gain on weapon swap.

i can't tell you what thief is supposed to be in this game but i can tell you what it was in gw1. some builds were heavy melee pressure. other builds ported in, knocked you down and beat the shit out of you and ported out again.

but then again, i guess that's why it was called assassin. thief is called thief because it only steals your caps /s

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 · December 9, 2020

@Jekkt.6045 said:basically everything has been nerfed on thief already at least once. why? because most of the stuff is abuseable. i remember when thief was played with double s/d for a short while. jesus christ was that an abomination of a build. not long after that they nerfed flanking strike and ini gain on weapon swap.
i can't tell you what thief is supposed to be in this game but i can tell you what it was in gw1. some builds were heavy melee pressure. other builds ported in, knocked you down and beat the kitten out of you and ported out again.
but then again, i guess that's why it was called assassin. thief is called thief because it only steals your caps /s

Ah yes, those were the days. The GW1 Assassin was far superior to the Thief in literally every single way as a Rogue class (ignoring Shadow Form which was stupidly overpowered and should never have existed in the first place). It didn't need stealth to fuck up someone's day, but it still had plenty of counters as well. I'd hoped for a bit of that in the Thief, but...good lord was I disappointed. To clarify, I wasn't expecting The Assassin, but the current state of the thief, is kind of a joke. And not a funny one. Smfh.

Axl.8924 · December 11, 2020

@Swagger.1459 said:
@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:0/10 horrible kitten change. How is a skill balanced for 8 years then suddenly it's too good? HOW?

Gotta look at the bright side! At least they didn't impose a 300 second recharge timer on it!

300 sec> @Bazsi.2734 said:

8/10 patch. Could have been 10/10 but you stopped just 2 inititive too short. I'm not even mad at this point, this is legit funny.

Make it cost exactly 1 ini more than you can have as a troll then.

Axl.8924 · December 11, 2020

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@Anomaly.7612 said:
@"Vavume.8065" said:Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change.

You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle.

Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done.

All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke.

I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't.I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it.I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too.

Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take.

When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is.

Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win

any

1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage.

Dude you've been trolling those forums for too long. I ask you kindly get out of your box and think. If you have ever used offensive traits and utilities, you would notice that thief can actually have 100-0 oneshot builds. Thing is those builds use utilities and traitlines that are not META. As I have said earlier thief has better things to do than 1vs1 people randomly. If you still absolutely want to 1vs1 easily with thief you just gotta use those offmeta builds that are easily capable of doing that. Most of those builds are not always very known or played because they are strong in 1vs1ing, they are not as strong as meta ones in general. Take for example deadeye. Yes it is way worse than a core thief as a whole, but it is a simple solution to your problem. Easy to play and is designed to win 1vs1s if it is what you want. Necros causing you trouble ? Go deadeye.

Oh I have done that for fun before. I noticed that thief, under no circumstances, can even get

close

to 100-0 oneshot builds. The most you could is do barely enough damage to 50% a squishy if you go all-in on damage. Of course, then you immediately lose all your damage and die. Let me let you in on a little secret: If such a build existed, it

would

be meta. But of course, it doesnt exist. There is no thief build that can 1v1. They arent known or played because they dont exist. Deadeye does not win

any

1v1s, have you ever actually played deadeye? Its at best a teamfighting build to pick people off (which its bad at).

Btw if mesmer is the only class you can beat with a thief, you are just lacking experience on other classes if you play only thief. Countering mesmer as a thief is straightforeward, but for beating other classes you might need some minimal knowledge. Go play other classes to find out their weeknesses then come back to thief and use that in your advantage.

Inaccurate. More accurately, Mesmer is the only class that, if I play it, I dont 100% of the time beat a thief of equal skill level on. If Im playing any other class? Yeah I win, no matter what. Thief is terrible.

I mostly play power core and I would engage and win 1vs1 fights with rangers, guardians, damage eles, condi renes, mesmers and ofc enemy thieves. I avoid fighting alone with necros, engis, warriors and the bunker builds in general. Remember still that there is no class that destroys all others. Everyone has his counters. Avoid ones that you are not supposed to beat with your class. In any match I always have at least 2 classes I can 1vs1 and win as a thief. That is what makes the builds like rifle deadeyes unviable, you don't actually need that with meta thief builds, you can still win some 1vs1s and have the good map control. But for weak thief players like you, that might be a solution.

There is however a class that gets destroyed by all others. A class that cannot win any 1v1s by design. A class that is supposed to suck at anything but decapping and +1ing. Thief.

I saw a video earlier titled thief is fine that showed doing 5k with condi between steal and thieves guild.

Actually 5k initial damage plus condi destroyed the test bot thing with bleeds and confuse.

Fat Disgrace.4275 · December 12, 2020

@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@Anomaly.7612 said:
@"Vavume.8065" said:Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change.

You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle.

Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done.

All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke.

I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't.I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it.I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too.

Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take.

When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is.

Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win

any

1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage.

Dude you've been trolling those forums for too long. I ask you kindly get out of your box and think. If you have ever used offensive traits and utilities, you would notice that thief can actually have 100-0 oneshot builds. Thing is those builds use utilities and traitlines that are not META. As I have said earlier thief has better things to do than 1vs1 people randomly. If you still absolutely want to 1vs1 easily with thief you just gotta use those offmeta builds that are easily capable of doing that. Most of those builds are not always very known or played because they are strong in 1vs1ing, they are not as strong as meta ones in general. Take for example deadeye. Yes it is way worse than a core thief as a whole, but it is a simple solution to your problem. Easy to play and is designed to win 1vs1s if it is what you want. Necros causing you trouble ? Go deadeye.

Oh I have done that for fun before. I noticed that thief, under no circumstances, can even get

close

to 100-0 oneshot builds. The most you could is do barely enough damage to 50% a squishy if you go all-in on damage. Of course, then you immediately lose all your damage and die. Let me let you in on a little secret: If such a build existed, it

would

be meta. But of course, it doesnt exist. There is no thief build that can 1v1. They arent known or played because they dont exist. Deadeye does not win

any

1v1s, have you ever actually played deadeye? Its at best a teamfighting build to pick people off (which its bad at).

Btw if mesmer is the only class you can beat with a thief, you are just lacking experience on other classes if you play only thief. Countering mesmer as a thief is straightforeward, but for beating other classes you might need some minimal knowledge. Go play other classes to find out their weeknesses then come back to thief and use that in your advantage.

Inaccurate. More accurately, Mesmer is the only class that, if I play it, I dont 100% of the time beat a thief of equal skill level on. If Im playing any other class? Yeah I win, no matter what. Thief is terrible.

I mostly play power core and I would engage and win 1vs1 fights with rangers, guardians, damage eles, condi renes, mesmers and ofc enemy thieves. I avoid fighting alone with necros, engis, warriors and the bunker builds in general. Remember still that there is no class that destroys all others. Everyone has his counters. Avoid ones that you are not supposed to beat with your class. In any match I always have at least 2 classes I can 1vs1 and win as a thief. That is what makes the builds like rifle deadeyes unviable, you don't actually need that with meta thief builds, you can still win some 1vs1s and have the good map control. But for weak thief players like you, that might be a solution.

There is however a class that gets destroyed by all others. A class that cannot win any 1v1s by design. A class that is supposed to suck at anything but decapping and +1ing. Thief.

I saw a video earlier titled thief is fine that showed doing 5k with condi between steal and thieves guild.

Actually 5k initial damage plus condi destroyed the test bot thing with bleeds and confuse.

"thieth is fine, here is a gimmick troll build... see :D"

Axl.8924 · December 12, 2020

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@Armen.1483 said:
@Anomaly.7612 said:
@"Vavume.8065" said:Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change.

You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle.

Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done.

All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke.

I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't.I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it.I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too.

Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take.

When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is.

Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win

any

1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage.

Dude you've been trolling those forums for too long. I ask you kindly get out of your box and think. If you have ever used offensive traits and utilities, you would notice that thief can actually have 100-0 oneshot builds. Thing is those builds use utilities and traitlines that are not META. As I have said earlier thief has better things to do than 1vs1 people randomly. If you still absolutely want to 1vs1 easily with thief you just gotta use those offmeta builds that are easily capable of doing that. Most of those builds are not always very known or played because they are strong in 1vs1ing, they are not as strong as meta ones in general. Take for example deadeye. Yes it is way worse than a core thief as a whole, but it is a simple solution to your problem. Easy to play and is designed to win 1vs1s if it is what you want. Necros causing you trouble ? Go deadeye.

Oh I have done that for fun before. I noticed that thief, under no circumstances, can even get

close

to 100-0 oneshot builds. The most you could is do barely enough damage to 50% a squishy if you go all-in on damage. Of course, then you immediately lose all your damage and die. Let me let you in on a little secret: If such a build existed, it

would

be meta. But of course, it doesnt exist. There is no thief build that can 1v1. They arent known or played because they dont exist. Deadeye does not win

any

1v1s, have you ever actually played deadeye? Its at best a teamfighting build to pick people off (which its bad at).

Btw if mesmer is the only class you can beat with a thief, you are just lacking experience on other classes if you play only thief. Countering mesmer as a thief is straightforeward, but for beating other classes you might need some minimal knowledge. Go play other classes to find out their weeknesses then come back to thief and use that in your advantage.

Inaccurate. More accurately, Mesmer is the only class that, if I play it, I dont 100% of the time beat a thief of equal skill level on. If Im playing any other class? Yeah I win, no matter what. Thief is terrible.

I mostly play power core and I would engage and win 1vs1 fights with rangers, guardians, damage eles, condi renes, mesmers and ofc enemy thieves. I avoid fighting alone with necros, engis, warriors and the bunker builds in general. Remember still that there is no class that destroys all others. Everyone has his counters. Avoid ones that you are not supposed to beat with your class. In any match I always have at least 2 classes I can 1vs1 and win as a thief. That is what makes the builds like rifle deadeyes unviable, you don't actually need that with meta thief builds, you can still win some 1vs1s and have the good map control. But for weak thief players like you, that might be a solution.

There is however a class that gets destroyed by all others. A class that cannot win any 1v1s by design. A class that is supposed to suck at anything but decapping and +1ing. Thief.

I saw a video earlier titled thief is fine that showed doing 5k with condi between steal and thieves guild.

Actually 5k initial damage plus condi destroyed the test bot thing with bleeds and confuse.

"thieth is fine, here is a gimmick troll build... see :D"

He did manage to do a lot of damage with 2 diff kinda builds even 3 and talked about perfect timing on the rotation which il admit i'm not good at never was i merely followed the actions of the best pvper on streams in order to learn what abilities do what.

Maybe he's right i dunno, but if there are multiple builds viable for lower rank and a couple viable for higher ranks like 2 still something.

Raiden The Beast.3016 · December 12, 2020

B.U.F.F. Teef ?‍♂️

Armen.1483 · December 12, 2020