Forced Engagement + Pierce

[DonArkanio.6419]

What do you think? Would "piercing" effect make this skill worth it?It happens very often that this skill is blocked by some random target making it completely useless. I was thinking if giving it pierce could make it slightly more useful while still keeping its identity. We know that AoE Taunt could be too much.

So, if you had to choose between these two, what would you pick?

[Knighthonor.4061]

No it's a poorly rushed skill that should be scrapped. Taunt is useless most of the time. Rather have a different kind of CC with better cooldown and energy with other utility.

[Kain Francois.4328]

Scrap the skill, maybe something else for Jalis. Now that Inspiring Reinforcement was nerfed, Jalis needs a new DPS skill.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

Pierce or not, I can't see any situation where this skill is useful... If it was aoe with a large radius, maybe. But I would prefer a whole new function.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I guess I'm the only guy who actually uses Forced Engagement. it's rare, but the situation pops up:

(1) In PVE if group CC is really low and I am on Jalis for power cleave. Slow + Taunt is actually pretty good, doing 125 total bar damage every second. That totals to 500 overall.(2) In WvW I will occasionally have Jalis over Shiro. Maybe there's a lot of condi, or I want to counter-harass enemies with retaliation. When it comes to zerg fights, if the enemy is retreating I will use Forced Engagement to "hook" another player in place, effectively dooming them once the swarm comes.

In both of these cases, it would be great if the skill pierced.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:No it's a poorly rushed skill that should be scrapped. Taunt is useless most of the time. Rather have a different kind of CC with better cooldown and energy with other utility.

Taunt is most certainly not useless. It’s actually really strong in pvp when utilized properly and as mentioned is a really solid soft CC for breakbars in pve.

[Clownmug.8357]

Firing it into a large crowd of enemies would make everyone's framerate drop to single digits from all the chains following your character.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Clownmug.8357 said:Firing it into a large crowd of enemies would make everyone's framerate drop to single digits from all the chains following your character.

It would almost certainly have a limit of up to 3 or 5 like most skills. I don’t think this is a legitimate reason to not want the skill to pierce

[narcx.3570]

The pierce seems fair... They should just give it the same targeting functionality as Banish Enchantment--easy, done, problem solved.

But honestly, buffs to this skill won't make Jalis good in any sort of competitive game modes. This would be like a small (although probably pretty realistic) buff to frontline wvw zerg revs and that's it... And giving those poor souls a 3-person taunt wouldn't even be as bad as freaking temporal curtain is, or the 1200 necro pull, or Firebrands f1 aoe pull, etc, etc, etc... If anything it'd be a somewhat fair and deserved buff.

Now if you really want to make changes to make Jalis a real choice, you need to address the fact that it brings zero mobility and has not nearly enough bunker power to have a home in this meta where those are basically the only two things that matter. And to make this happen they would have to do something somewhat bold and borderline op, like make Vengeful Hammers pulse RotGD on yourself (but not your allies) or remove a condi every second. Something that level of gross, and maybe--maaaaaaybe--Jalis could hang with the other bunkers.

[Clownmug.8357]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Firing it into a large crowd of enemies would make everyone's framerate drop to single digits from all the chains following your character.

It would almost certainly have a limit of up to 3 or 5 like most skills. I don’t think this is a legitimate reason to not want the skill to pierce

Then after the limit is reached it would be back to having the problem OP described of random things blocking the target.

[narcx.3570]

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Firing it into a large crowd of enemies would make everyone's framerate drop to single digits from all the chains following your character.

It would almost certainly have a limit of up to 3 or 5 like most skills. I don’t think this is a legitimate reason to not want the skill to pierce

Then after the limit is reached it would be back to having the problem OP described of random things blocking the target.

No, because this is how Banish Enchantment works...

The beam/chain strikes the Original Target and then up to 4 additional targets in a line between you and the OT--but it always procs the OT.

[Clownmug.8357]

@narcx.3570 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Firing it into a large crowd of enemies would make everyone's framerate drop to single digits from all the chains following your character.

It would almost certainly have a limit of up to 3 or 5 like most skills. I don’t think this is a legitimate reason to not want the skill to pierce

Then after the limit is reached it would be back to having the problem OP described of random things blocking the target.

No, because this is how Banish Enchantment works...

The beam/chain strikes the Original Target and then up to 4 additional targets in a line between you and the OT--but it always procs the OT.

Not sure beam attacks works the same as piercing projectile since they don't have any travel time. Can projectiles hit through 4 objects then just ignore everything else while flying to the target?

[narcx.3570]

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Firing it into a large crowd of enemies would make everyone's framerate drop to single digits from all the chains following your character.

It would almost certainly have a limit of up to 3 or 5 like most skills. I don’t think this is a legitimate reason to not want the skill to pierce

Then after the limit is reached it would be back to having the problem OP described of random things blocking the target.

No, because this is how Banish Enchantment works...

The beam/chain strikes the Original Target and then up to 4 additional targets in a line between you and the OT--but it always procs the OT.

Not sure beam attacks works the same as piercing projectile since they don't have any travel time. Can projectiles hit through 4 objects then just ignore everything else while flying to the target?

Spear of Justice works like this, although it doesn't have a max target number...

My point though is they could just give the skill the same functionality as Banish Enchantment... I mean do you really care about that layer of realism in a game about talking plants and 800 pound catmen thieves that can backflip twice their height to dodge an attack if it affects your game play in the process? Besides, even if you want to banter realism, it's a spirit chain made out of the Mists, it's not exactly tangible. It's not like you're actually throwing a steel chain through a bunch of dude's chests, the same as you're not actually paving a road with asphalt when you use Inspiring Reinforcements.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

It is a nice and reasonable idea that I hadn't really thought of before. I have always wished it was just not counted as a projectile...I find it kinda silly that a taunt can be reflectable.

[Justine.6351]

Rofl, keep it same but have chain cloths line anyone it touches.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Remove it completely and bring new ability that has no cd.

[Shao.7236]

I can see why people think it needs a rework since it's clunky, but that skill is basically what allows you to not get destroyed at range if you're traited for weakness but also pull off clutch interrupts, plus having a skill that pierces and can be reflected sounds really odd in execution.

Asking for an unblockable would be a little too much as well since it eliminates a lot of counter play which I am against, just like how bullscharge got an evade instead of stability, you can understand why it got instantly meta since the damn thing needs to be either evaded, blocked or stab'd, which really takes away the corrupt/stun boon steal away as counter, however walls can stop them which make no sense since the name of the skill itself implies to be an unstoppable truck not a charging ninja, stability would fix that.

[Kain Francois.4328]

Can't find any situation this is useful. Needs a rework.

Personally, I'd like to see this skill altered such that it's useful outside defensive builds.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Can't find any situation this is useful. Needs a rework.

Personally, I'd like to see this skill altered such that it's useful outside defensive builds.

In my experience you can set up some really really nice combos with it, especially offhand sword. The fact that you don't have to be facing your target to use it makes it much more valuable. I honestly really like the skill but am not opposed to it getting a rework in favor of making the Jalis kit a bit more versatile.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Yeah it would make it better. Making it PbAoE would be even more useful IMO.And I still think jalis is missing blocks. Also a possible implementation.

[Shao.7236]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Yeah it would make it better. Making it PbAoE would be even more useful IMO.And I still think jalis is missing blocks. Also a possible implementation.

What makes you think Jalis need blocks? It does not at all, that would make it's utilities overpowered. Use Herald Shield or Staff, preferably Staff for Weakness, because Weakness IS Jalis sustain with one VERY powerful trait caller Dwarven Battle Training.