Sindrener.1592

lots of bad info here, i think id be able to outdo a dp thief on sd in current meta to 99% :)

Pd core thief dies easily when focused No, it doesn't. It has multiple teleports, stealths, wears carrion, and spams weakness on all the power damage. For the level of ranged damage it deals and how frequent it is, the sustain & disengage is outrageous. In example, consider how a Core Warrior who has to melee is far easier to focus and actually kill than a P/D Thief and has roughly half the damage output during a burst. P/D Thief is currently extremely loaded, including its sustain. The weakness should be removed from the build entirely aside from blasting shortbow 2 on shortbow 4, which is actually a considerable amount of init to invest for procing an AoE weakness. Again , warrior and thief role are COMPLETELY diffeeent , dunno if u know the differente of a dueler and a roamer but u cant compare them thats ridiculous . Core dp has literally one teleport with 50s using daggger 2 when focused by two or more persons is not viable u will prob get a cc chain and die . There is only one stelath with big cd too , dagger 5 is like dagger 2 not viable wheb focused , the health is easily rupteable with 1s cast time. The condi burst is nice ? Ofc but like every top player says (sindrener , boyce..) c thief dies easily when focused not likely dsredevil wich is nearly inmortal . Literally when boyce plays ranger he farms c thief when they has shadow step and he says it on stream , no shadow step =kill Not sure who you're trying to convince, but I'm one of the wrong guys to argue with here:I run 3 or 4 ATs a day and 90% of the time make it to the final round, sometimes win. P/D Thief is better at running than D/P Thief. P/D Thief uses the very same Shadow Step teleport and Shortbow as the D/P Thief. The P/D Thief also often brings a 2nd stun break https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Powder which is also another instant on-demand stealth that does not require monkeying around with black powder shot blasting and init burning, which = more shortbow 5. The P/D Thief actually has more resource for shortbow 5 porting because it has several methods to stealth without burning initiative = more ability to disengage very quickly. P/D Thief is currently by far the fastest class in the game mobility wise and equal to a D/P Thief in ability to stay permanently stealthed if it really wants, and it can do this without burning initiative whatsoever. P/D is harder to kill that D/P Thief if it is disengaging. What you heard Sindrender reference, was probably him mentioning how it plays when it is trying to STAY in combat. Of course a P/D isn't going to be as evasive while STAYING in the fight, as a S/D or a Staff Daredevil. This goes into what you said yourself about the difference between a Team Fighter and a DPS Roamer. I couldn't agree more, as a person who plays a glass cannon Soulbeast. I'm great in 1v1s, plenty of evasion for 1v1s. I'm great for getting in dropping a lot of damage and leaving quickly, plenty of cooldowns for that. But if I try to stay in a fight say a 3v3, I can die instantly if caught wrong, even if things like FBs and Tempests are supporting me. The P/D Thief is the same. It is a burst class/build. It needs to get in on a good approach, back off and approach again. It cant' stay in combat while dealing steady DPS while maintaining a generally defensive repose in the same way that an S/D could. But while actively disengaging, the P/D is faster than all the other Thief variants while preserving more init. If a player has great map awareness and also has good team communication via a voice chat, the P/D Thief is much harder to catch and kill than any other Thief variant. It also wears Carrion and spams high weakness uptime. Come on my dude.You bring up Boyce's footage. Of course Boyce farms P/D Thieves. He runs a build that is almost identical to the build that I have been running for a little over 2 years now. Soulbeast archetypes like this are the one build that can actually bully and secure kills on a P/D Thief. I do the very same thing in NA all day long in ATs. Currently the only Thief that I can't handle in NA, is oEnvy. A lot of it has to do with how his team comps are arranged vs. my own, but also because the guy is sporadic and always in a weird spot, hard to read. But I farm the rest of them, P/D S/D D/P doesn't matter, to the point that they actively avoid my Soulbeast unless they're 2v1 +ing, and even then I'll instantly down them most of the time before that 2v1 is finished. The reason why Soulbeast can counter Thief so hard is obviously for two reasons: 1) Sic Em reveal, and 2) Smoke Assault. Smoke Assault once it is active, will follow a Thief anywhere that he is able to teleport. So if I open up a burst on a P/D Thief beginning with Rapid Fire and One Wolf Pack, I just follow with Smoke Assault after that and no matter where the Thief goes, I'll still be on top of his head when we land. And it's funny to bring this up because you acted as if P/D Thief had bad disengage. However in the past day or two, there was one point where I was chasing oEnvy in Legacy. We were at mid and I went to finish a burst on him, guy teleports up a ledge from mid, teleports half way to far with Shadow Step, teleports to the far node directly, and I stay on top of him the entire time due to Smoke Assault. This distance of travel happens in the very short time that it takes me to finish a single Smoke Assault. Roughly 1 and a half seconds. If I wasn't a Soulbeast with Sic Em reveal and Smoke Assault, it would be impossible to chase/catch that. Seriously, no other build could reveal him for so long while sticking to him during those long distance teleports. Even Herald Unrelenting Assault is limited compared to Smoke Assault. Soulbeast is the only build in the game that can kitten on a P/D like that. Anyway, P/D Thief is loaded dude. It's too powerful in terms of skill entry and skill ceiling alike. I'm a bad Thief player, and even I can get on that build and immediately be dangerous as hell on it. If u pretty much know the differenre between a dueler and a roamer whyU compared them at first instance (warr and thief) If we r not talking about staying on a fight as a thief what we r talking about? I mean what kind of situatiom r u talking about ?disengaging? Ofc a thief will disengage a 3v2 and u wont chatch it , why would u chase a thief in that situation? XdThief will disengage every situation but as long as it gets into the fight will thats what im talking aboutBy easily killed when focused ofc im refering when thief has to stay obliged on a teamfight or on a 2v2 against other thief , in what other situation would be ? +1 someone and leave cuz u couldnt 2v1 and the situatiom went 2v2? Im not saying cthief is bad , nothing nearly ,cthief has a big good burst when it comes to +1 or trying to kill someone on a teamfight but if it fails u do prrtty much nothing . Im saying that if cthief is obliged to obviolsy stay on a fight it is easily punished by focusing , dunno if u saying that cthief has a big stealth access , it has two reliable sources of stealth :heath (1s cast time ) and shadow refuge/blinding powder both with big cd ,picking venom means dropping a big sustain utility . If u say pd is better than dp but i think mota already gave us an answer ;) Also soulbeast sick em was a example of how cthief cant survive while pd daredevil could on the same situation , to not count being rooted or chilled etc . Dude things have evolved greatly since the mota. P/D Thief is just better than D/P right now. These 2 month patchings that constantly reshake the meta do not provide long enough durations of time for any "real meta" to ever actually form. Every time by the end of 2 months, when things are sort of finally settling, then it all changes again. What I'm trying to say is that right now, nearing the end of our current 2 month patching, P/D is being discovered as the best DPS + Roam for several reasons. In the past couple of weeks in NA, I haven't seen a single Thief run anything other than P/D. And that includes legend tier Best Of The Best and Gods Of PvP. What happens EVERY 2 month patch now, is the same thing:People find new builds that counter the previous meta and then everyone starts running those builds because they think they are OP. The appearance of Scourge in this previous 2 month patch is a good example of this, as well as the appearance of Flashbang Grenade Holos.Then people are forced to situate builds that can counter or at least deal with the new strong specs that are appearing, and this is what really drives the formation and settlement of a meta. It also can remove some of those first specs from play that were discovered first. Because a spec is only as good as what it is playing against. Again, a good example of this is how Scourge quickly disappeared again, and then Reaper showed up. Or how the disappearance of certain things and alteration of small traits allowed Weavers to run Water, which now we have really really powerful Weaver play showing up again. When these kind of "sleeper builds" are activated because of the appearance of something that it is good at countering, or the disappearance of something that used to counter it hard, the entire intra-class dynamic within the meta shifts completely. Something like D/P that was doing great, can be functionally pushed out by default, when people realize that what is currently strong and in play are things that are slow and melee range, and that by playing P/D they don't ever actually have to get close to those specs while +ing. <- And that is why P/D is better right now. It doesn't have to go get close to things are currently OP like Reapers or Holos or Weavers or Heralds, ect ect. The only things P/D Thief has to worry about it that can reliably actually kill it are:Sic Em DPS SoulbeastsOther Thieves Dying to anything else is a misplay in positioning, skill use, and map awareness. The only time I'd say that isn't true, is if your team is being snowballed so hard that you've got 3 guys chasing you on various classes any time you leave the gate. But other than that, you should be able to run circles around the map and disengage any opponents outside of Soulbeasts & other Thieves, while staying permanently stealthed even. Well thats true , things has changed , the most important is the perma resistance rev nerf but cthief got nerfed to (not to the ground ) At the end thats a player choice to pick cthief or daredevil both has lot of differences while matching the same role Im not agreeing with that , i thing both necro or power rev/maybe holo can punish cthief if it tryes to stay on a fight , but at the end cthief is almost all about the first burst , everyone runs resistance or revenant runes and thats mostly why i think daredevil is way better . The rupting potential of daredevil has ,at lest for me , way more utility . Also i dont think core has more mivility , dash is overpowered movility alone and u can use it 4 times in a row (with signet) At the end is all a players choice tbh , both builds has their own value My team and I have tried to analyze this a great deal actually because some people wanted me to start playing that P/D build over DPS Soulbeast and I definitely can see why. The thing that we mainly had noticed is this: The P/D build does one janky thing a lot better than any other + in the game right now. The + that it lands isn't really so much about if it lands the 1HKO burst DAMAGE, as much as it is about how much pressure that burst lays on someone to make them burn through all their CDs to survive it. In AT final rounds just as an example, most players are generally around the same skill level, usually how it works out. Even MAT winning teams will only beat P2 teams by a margin of 500 to 400 or something. So we're talking about a lot of players in 1 game who have played GW2 for almost 9 years, who are operating their build structures and understanding of this game at or nearly at peak levels. In this type of situation, if I am playing a DPS Soulbeast and I get caught on a side node against a player who is of equal skill & experience, the 1v1 will be tight and clutch. Someone is going to win the 1v1 by some small margin of error on the other person's part. When you're talking 1v1s with people using builds at peak performance, the 1v1 is usually decided by someone making a single mistake, which allows snowball in the 1v1 situation. Now with the P/D Thief, what it does better than anything else, is that it doesn't need to stay and fight during the +. All it needs to do is be real sneaky and make sure the person doesn't know the burst is coming, it has plenty of stealth to do this. And then land that burst, which is so much condi, even in reapplied doses after the first clear phase, that the person who is +d on has to burn through everything they have or die. When that person was already in a clutch 1v1 situation, the Thief doesn't actually need to stay to know the player who was +'d is going to lose the 1v1. So the idea of "the P/D Thief staying in the team fight" that's not actually how people are playing it at all. They are just showing up, blowing off a huge burst on a susceptible target, and then leaving, knowing that guy is going to get downed because he has no CDs left to work with. The ones who are good on this build are actually not staying in team fights longer than about 2 seconds. With a D/P or S/D Thief, if they go to + on someone, they actually have to go near that person and their opening damage is like 1/3rd or less of the P/D Thief. They have to stay longer to deal their damage and put themselves at risk of taking damage from the guy who is defending 1v2. Once that guy who is in a 1v2 sees the Thief revealed, he then becomes alert and can counter play that also smaller damage. This generally results in time to stall while a team mate comes to + for an even 2v2, but that just isn't possible with the way P/D is being played. It deals its + in 2s to 4s at range and then leaves and rotates around the map to do the same thing in other places constantly. So these other Thief builds or like say a DPS Soulbeast, grant tells that allow counter play whereas the P/D Thief does not. Also those builds deal damage with consecutive strikes and not all in the first 1/2 second of the first stealth approach like P/D. Let me explain this:Other Thieves strike a veteran player with the first backstab or w/e stealth attack it is. The experienced veteran hears that first ting ting and starts blocking or evades or invulns or something, dodges, begins counter play vs. the rest of that power based Thief damage. But with P/D Thief, you just eat this enormous burst directly out of stealth, that pressures the hell out of all your CDs instantly.Same with Soulbeast just as example. The Rapid Fire, Barrage, even going in swinging with Maul, these all have tells and is damage dealt over several actual strikes, therefore stronger counter exists against this. Then of course Soulbeast cannot perma stealth and instantly teleport to the other side of the map to do it again to someone on only about a 20s CD. Sure, DP and SD are better in some situations, but this PD play style is ridiculously easy to run and way too effective for how easy it is. It needs to lose something. It's just packing way too much nowadays. I'd also like to point in support to what I just explained, to how most utilities & clears work. So we have a lot of skills in the game like Contemplation of Purity which is a stun break and full clear simultaneously. Or on a Ranger Zephyr and Light Reflexes which are both 2 clear and stun break or even Troll as a 4 condi clear. You also have things like Shake it off, condi clear and stun break, ect ect. So the point I'm trying to make is how when you are against a power build, you mainly are concerned with using those sorts of abilities/traits/utilities for the stun breaks. But when something like the P/D Thief comes in with such an enormous condi burst, you have to start burning through those skills which are supposed to be wisely used simply for the condi clears, and then you have no stun breaks left. I guess my ultimate point here, is that considering how clears are distributed amongst defensive abilities in this game, no condi build should ever exist that can show up and burst you for 40k damage out of stealth in .25 seconds. That's incredibly mechanically imbalanced considering how condi clears work on most classes, concerning what they have to sacrifice to be able to cycle through that many clears quickly enough to not die from that burst. ^ This is nothing new. We've been pointing this out to Arenanet since year 1. Condi builds should never have burst. It should always be attrition for that very reason.imagine thinking pd thief is better than dp yikes last mAT vs cthief we won every single 2v2 vs cthief in mota as dp thief / holo fyi and no changes, cthief has problems to +1 any sidenoder that is being currently played, NA Just dont understand how to play dp thief or how to counter cthief thats the reality

Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people? Arenanet made everything worse for the average.The changes literally benefit noone, it's just changes for the sake of changes. yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person. I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point. So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out." Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT. Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand I thought the coordinated dancing parties over Tranquility during the MOTA were a nice change of pace over watching the standard condi rev vs bunker soulbeast wet noodles slapping on node.Pretty much, the game has been straight out casual over whole PoF

Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people? Arenanet made everything worse for the average.The changes literally benefit noone, it's just changes for the sake of changes. yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person. I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point. So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out."Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT. Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand

Top players are nothing to design balance around.They are outliers that will always find something to exploit.Balance has to be done around the average, were the majority of players is. I've yet to see any Condi Revenant that was hard to kill. The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao. Utter gar ba ge

Yeah let us pick what matchups we want, let me win every game otherwise its not fair!

Not like i won 6 monthlies and several tournaments playing S/D ? and i made pistol whip meta. But ye im dp only yikes. I just refuse to play condi thats about it. @NorthernRedStar.3054S/P my all time favourite > d/p but sure i prefer both dp/sp over sd cus sd is too basic. No complexity

Thank you for being the only one with common sense. This also makes the better players better. +1

??

Vallun on youtube or jawgeous videos

They won't rework the 5min cd ones due to then they would have to rework them in PvE. They won't sacrifice pve stuff for pvp.

i can safely tell you thief has been meta for 7 years.rev/engi/guard also had very long up time, necro is less so, but none of them compete with thief. i can't remember thief being non meta except hot launch.thief has been one of my most played class simply because it is meta for so long. it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility. not just mobility, steal backstab is also too good at coordinating burst in team play. it's entire kit is just good for conquest. shortbow 5 alone without steal couldn't secure thief's spot for so long. Close but almost whole HoT until the end rev > thief and thief wasnt picked at all. So very close, there was also a cele meta with 2 medi hammer 2 dd cele ele and shoutbow. you mean cele meta like this? ;) That cant be the cele meta. The left team only has 1 ele instead of 4. that was past cele meta. but good try. rom was marauder with gs+hammerfrae carriontage bunkerme normal the true cele meta was with cele rifle engi and nadesdd ele celeshoutbow cele you see non there. i think even the eles in wts there ran something other than cele if im not mistaken since they nerfed cele before this tournament did you mean this? ;) this time i made sure to check everybody except thief/mes/guard are cele. tho looking at these videos, i'm actually more surprised how pre-hot thief is still meta even with double medi guard ring PS: i kinda missed the old trait system tbh And find wts boston qualifier and check orng comp, they ran no thief then :) they ran 2 medi, cele engi, cele ele and shoutbow. But its easy handpicking! you mean this one?Nah theres another one when helseth gets ddosed or something when they play it Also p much whole pro leauge no one ran thief. In HoT

Buff thief

i can safely tell you thief has been meta for 7 years.rev/engi/guard also had very long up time, necro is less so, but none of them compete with thief. i can't remember thief being non meta except hot launch.thief has been one of my most played class simply because it is meta for so long. it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility. not just mobility, steal backstab is also too good at coordinating burst in team play. it's entire kit is just good for conquest. shortbow 5 alone without steal couldn't secure thief's spot for so long. Close but almost whole HoT until the end rev > thief and thief wasnt picked at all. So very close, there was also a cele meta with 2 medi hammer 2 dd cele ele and shoutbow. you mean cele meta like this? ;) That cant be the cele meta. The left team only has 1 ele instead of 4. that was past cele meta. but good try. rom was marauder with gs+hammerfrae carriontage bunkerme normal the true cele meta was with cele rifle engi and nadesdd ele celeshoutbow cele you see non there. i think even the eles in wts there ran something other than cele if im not mistaken since they nerfed cele before this tournament did you mean this? ;) this time i made sure to check everybody except thief/mes/guard are cele. tho looking at these videos, i'm actually more surprised how pre-hot thief is still meta even with double medi guard ring PS: i kinda missed the old trait system tbhAnd find wts boston qualifier and check orng comp, they ran no thief then :) they ran 2 medi, cele engi, cele ele and shoutbow. But its easy handpicking!

i can safely tell you thief has been meta for 7 years.rev/engi/guard also had very long up time, necro is less so, but none of them compete with thief. i can't remember thief being non meta except hot launch.thief has been one of my most played class simply because it is meta for so long. it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility. not just mobility, steal backstab is also too good at coordinating burst in team play. it's entire kit is just good for conquest. shortbow 5 alone without steal couldn't secure thief's spot for so long. Close but almost whole HoT until the end rev > thief and thief wasnt picked at all. So very close, there was also a cele meta with 2 medi hammer 2 dd cele ele and shoutbow. you mean cele meta like this? ;) That cant be the cele meta. The left team only has 1 ele instead of 4.that was past cele meta. but good try. rom was marauder with gs+hammerfrae carriontage bunkerme normal the true cele meta was with cele rifle engi and nadesdd ele celeshoutbow cele you see non there. i think even the eles in wts there ran something other than cele if im not mistaken since they nerfed cele before this tournament

From his health it looks like he's running Marauder's Res with a Berserker Amulet. None of you are correct. I ran scholar with mara amu and heal/cleanse on dodge

i can safely tell you thief has been meta for 7 years.rev/engi/guard also had very long up time, necro is less so, but none of them compete with thief. i can't remember thief being non meta except hot launch.thief has been one of my most played class simply because it is meta for so long. it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility. not just mobility, steal backstab is also too good at coordinating burst in team play. it's entire kit is just good for conquest. shortbow 5 alone without steal couldn't secure thief's spot for so long.Close but almost whole HoT until the end rev > thief and thief wasnt picked at all. So very close, there was also a cele meta with 2 medi hammer 2 dd cele ele and shoutbow.

That was lag lol

This is half-true depending on how you look at it. In terms of individual skill, NA has plenty. It's teamwork where NA fails, and largely because there just aren't enough competitive NA teams. This is pretty apparent if you pay better attention to the fight between Team USA and 55 Dragons. Team USA could win fights, but R55 absolutely kitten on them rotation and tactics wise, so they always ended up ahead on nodes. I wouldn't say they got "flattened", as that would imply R55 was just spawn camping them to death. More like they just got outplayed and outrotated since Sind and Obi have a good enough understanding of their role in the team to make sure any death R55 suffered ended up not mattering as they would always either pick up free nodes or troll another.Lets also not forget that one team had played with each other for years and the other mainly scrimmed against the same team over and over. ppl rly do seem to not realize the Mota was decided on comp more than skill/rotations/strategy. everyone agrees its pretty clear, although obviously r55 doesn't wanna admit as easily ppl do realize it was pure outplay on every level both skill/rotations/strategy wise.

Amen

The top players intentionally mislead and hide information btw. What ?

Yeah, Headshot was always a “why bother” until PI came along. Isn’t it 2 cents? Or is that too cheap 2020? Ye ? its me being drunk ur right

I don't think they should buff PI, i wish they baked PI into headshot which would indirectly buff core dp builds that now suffers from the massive nerfs from 22nd feb. Then have creative freedom to add another trait that can compete with Endurance trait and fits into PvP. My 5 cents

Thief role? Hypercarry, chessmaster