Quadox.7834

That's assuming that thief being a "weak fast guy" is a necessity. Even the necromancer, which is notoriously "slow", can build to be relatively "fast". So maybe the issue of the "weak fast guy" isn't necessarily a loss of speed but a lack of (popular) options to be "strong". It's not a matter of theory or philosophy. The game was literally designed that way and had been played where the thief and mesmer was the fast weak guy for 9 years. So let's not pretend that this was not Arenanet's obvious intended design. What we are talking about are radical changes that are implemented recklessly rather than properly. Suddenly ripping a lot of mobility off of Thief with nothing to compensate is bologna, considering when things like Trap DH, Necros, and other slow bruiser team fighters are undergoing massive mobility creep.mesmer fast good joke

did you notice that they blanket nerfed almost all power dmg in the game but did not nerf condi coefficients or base damage in february? yes, condi didnt get nerfed, Yet my sharper images deal 95% less damage, where do I report this "bug" for conditions surely did not get nerfed right ?editlosing deadshot amulet alone is 30%+ blanket nerf for condi damage, add in rune nerfs and some skill nerfs and conditions lost MORE damage then power.I remember sharp img having about 600 bleed damage ( OOC ) now not only the damage is ( on wizard and nightmare, random kitten for the sake of testing ) 255( less then half ) and on top of it clones have 28,8% crit instead of 55% meaning its 75%+ less effective then it was, when you play carrion its 95% less effectiveyes but then torch burn recieved a 0% nerf

did you notice that they blanket nerfed almost all power dmg in the game but did not nerf condi coefficients or base damage in february?

You have not reached "high end pvp" just yet. You're calling burn guardians "pala", thats how I know. AoE spam is only effective in low end PvP, against newbies and baddies. If you stick to the game, you keep playing matches and actually try to improve, you'll fight better players, and the number of AoE-s will go down. Because "good" players know not to stand in red circles, so your enemies will be using them less.If you want to see what high end pvp looks like, you must improve a lot. Doing stuff like engaging enemies 1v2 or 1v3, summoning your clones into enemy AoE... I think even you know that whatever happened next is on you. You walked up on them, you threw your clones into those AoE-s.When I play mesmer, I wait for an opportunity to land my burst with my clones. You cannot just blindly summon them into the chaos of a teamfight and expect them to be around 10 seconds later when you have shatter off cooldown.So yeah, being new and trying what works and what doesn't is fun, just be aware that what you see around you has nothing to do with actual "high end pvp". AoE serves as area denial in actual competetive PvP, and not go to damage source, because people just don't get hit by it that much. kalla ren holo core nec scourgen etc there have been many top tier builds which use aoe spam, and even though op is new he is right that aoe is in general too prevalent and powerful in this game, not much can be done though

i think knockdowns are as long as they say (like stuns) but i havent checked launch times. i can at least tell you that mes focus pull is 0.75 sec.

how is that even relevant

suspend all work on the expansion and focus 100% of dev efforts on bringing back raid on the capricorn

dont, torch is already one of if not the best offhand

you know whats even more exciting than buffs? new content. reworking old deprecated traits (300 sec icd anyone), adding new skills/traits (in core we got new gm trait and new healskill on all classes). new classes. new especs. new usable weapons on core professions. new (non-djinn) maps. even additions to hotm.

lmao damage is already lower than ever and you want to removd ferocity?

It's the only amy without power at all, and Carrion is the only one without power major, iirc. assassin, sinister? or what do you mean

Bcs it doesnt do power dmg and precision is a B tier stat

i actually like the current version of illusion of life but your suggestion also sounds sexy

what kind of trolling are you talking about?

Fair, but I don't really have a word for it. Like it or hate it, Feb 25th was a big patch that changed a lot within in the game. It was something new that invalidated a lot of ways to play through nerfing everything, and there were plenty of outliers for months after because certain things just weren't nerfed or weren't nerfed equally. Call it power creep, power dip, call it whatever you want really. No, I agree its good to shake up the meta and it would stagnate quick if they just stopped. I just think that nerfing everything to achieve that adds nothing to the game, and makes it progressively more boring to play. Why not instead of nerfing the meta to the point of unplayability every 3-6 months, they do the opposite and focus on buffing/reworking weak and underused skills/traitlines to rival the current meta for that time? Like I say, either way it's going to be imbalanced. It's really up to people on whether they want an imbalanced and boring game, or an imbalanced but fun game.If you actually play Melee, i'll figure you're a fan of the latter. Melee is incredibly broken, but that's part of what makes it fun. thats what they did and the game got powercrept to kitten and it wasnt fun "melee is broken" is a fun buzzword-like thing people like to say but isnt actually that true, sure it has minor glitches that make the combat more fun and deep but most of the gamebreaking glitches (like game crashes) got fixed in the later game versions (check version change notes on the wiki), ofc with certain exceptions esp wobbling which is pretty broken Well turns out most people disagree with u about what fun lol, turns out players like to feel powerful on their chosen class. Soon after the big lazy de-powercreep patch the pvp population plummeted. In 6 yrs I havent seen the pvp and wvw population so low. The games has been in a steady decline for yrs but as soon as the heavy blanket nerfs happened it was only a few months and pvp was basically dead.Obviously something's wrong and it's no coincidence the population left when it did. They should roll back to pre feb patch and nerf the outliers where they need nerfed and then continue nerfing individual outliers as needed while maintaining a builds viability. The feb patch everyone thought was magical was actually a lazy doomsday patch that killed the game despite some warnings given,, great job.many people wanted a reduction in oneshots (or close to) from things like mantra mes, thief, power rev. this is why basically every top pvp player reacted positively to the patch, at least initially. in fact it wouldn't surprise me if CMC made this patch partly based on input from high-level players from their balance discord, streams, and such. "feeling powerful" sure, but you can feel powerful and have fun playing with only a stick as long as you are effective (the other players arent much stronger than you) and if the game is fun - this is what people actually want. and though you personally may feel powerful from oneshoting somebody, the other guy feels the opposite (frustrated and weak) - surviving well can also make you feel powerful. there needs to be a balance. note, dont get me wrong, i also think the feb patch was badly executed, they nerfed too many active skills while not nerfing many of the more passive/easy things.

Right, that's why I think all the elite specs should have tradeoffs that most do and a handful don't. I mean there wouldn't be much point if they just buffed core because if elite specs were still decidedly stronger and if there was no downside to taking them that would just exacerbate the issue. Meaningful tradeoffs are the best changes imo. They're like Nerfs/Buffs in one that (usually) make a profession/character much more fun to play and watch. Do you play Ultimate as well? Joker main here, and I actually loved the Arsène nerf. It made Arsène deplete faster as Joker takes damage; which, sounds like a flat nerf on paper, but the way to deal with Arsène previously was typically just to abuse invincibility frames and wait the boy out, but with the tradeoff it opened up a quicker way to deal with Arsène, provided you actually challenged him. It's like a buff/nerf at once, it was great.If they just made Arsène deplete faster or nerfed his launch power/damage that would have been boring. We have a few already of those already; what with elite specs like Mirage getting 1 dodge, Reaper shroud depleting faster than normal and losing range, Zerker losing toughness in favor of power/condi, but not every elite spec has a tradeoff. That, or they have one and it isn't enough. Once those were in place, then I think it would be safe to buff weak and underplayed skills/traits across all classes. Nerfing a core skill to target elite specs doesn't really solve anything if the elite spec and its class mechanic make it better still. At most you've just removed that one elite spec from the meta, and made the core version of that class weaker as well through the nerf.On top of all those other bad consequences that come with nerfing everything. Well that's what I said from the start. Melee is an unbalanced game, but it's also a fun game, and doesn't require balance patches. I think Gw2 balance should be way more hands-off than hands-on, like melee. Not to the extent of not touching it at all, but also not nerfing everything in the game and being too afraid to buff anything because 'powercreep.' Even though when they did the Feb 25th patch(you know the big nerf instead of buff thing) it created tons of new poster children for the forums to whine about because some skills were overlooked, bugged, or were less nerfed than others. Balance =/= FunThey're both subjective, but anyone who complains that an unbalanced game can't be fun is clowning both you and themselves.I also have to go now, I need to go chug a Red Bull so I can hopefully make it through 1 Unranked match for dailies. ✌️they cant leave this game alone like melee bcs this game isnt 90%+ perfect, there are many dumb things that should be nerfed

Kinda subjective. I liked it better tbh, and I don't think that powercreep has gotten any better since. From my perspective all the new changes just created a meta about playing whatever got the nerfed the least. It also restricted what you can get away with playing and turned teamfights and 1v1s into slogfests compared to the old, but I might also be biased after playing at the old pace for so long.i dont disagree that the game isnt super fun after patch, all im arguing for is that the game had insane lvls of powercreep and the right solution was not to just buff core to compete with the overpowered elite spec, that sounds like some maplestory-esque balancing. to me, the problem is that they focused on nerfing damage numbers when the thing it is traits and certain skill designs that are the real problem - the real powercreep. to take mesmer as an example, nerfing blinding dissipation to only blind on f2 was a good change, as was removing stun on daze, however nerfing phantasmal berserker by like 30% was very unnecessary. and the worst part of the feb patch is that they hard nerfed lots of active skills like, say, mes gs2 and gs4, but didnt nerf lots of easy-to-use dumb stuff, like trait condi procs, downstate autos, retaliation damage, and so on. when it should logically be the opposite. If elite specs powercreeping over core was such a problem like people say, I don't see why they wouldn't just focus on buffing core and giving more tradeoffs to elite specs to give people some real decision. Instead they just nerfed core; lowered coefficients, increased CDs to target the elite specs. ?"if powercreeo was such a problem why dont they focus on buffibg core" welllll... because that would further increase powercreep. I mean the imbalanced kind of broken. even in this regard it isnt that bad or different from other games, it is more noticable in melee because the balance is persistent i.e. no patches. leffen defends this point at the start of this video

Fair, but I don't really have a word for it. Like it or hate it, Feb 25th was a big patch that changed a lot within in the game. It was something new that invalidated a lot of ways to play through nerfing everything, and there were plenty of outliers for months after because certain things just weren't nerfed or weren't nerfed equally. Call it power creep, power dip, call it whatever you want really. No, I agree its good to shake up the meta and it would stagnate quick if they just stopped. I just think that nerfing everything to achieve that adds nothing to the game, and makes it progressively more boring to play. Why not instead of nerfing the meta to the point of unplayability every 3-6 months, they do the opposite and focus on buffing/reworking weak and underused skills/traitlines to rival the current meta for that time? Like I say, either way it's going to be imbalanced. It's really up to people on whether they want an imbalanced and boring game, or an imbalanced but fun game.If you actually play Melee, i'll figure you're a fan of the latter. Melee is incredibly broken, but that's part of what makes it fun. thats what they did and the game got powercrept to shit and it wasnt fun "melee is broken" is a fun buzzword-like thing people like to say but isnt actually that true, sure it has minor glitches that make the combat more fun and deep but most of the gamebreaking glitches (like game crashes) got fixed in the later game versions (check version change notes on the wiki), ofc with certain exceptions esp wobbling which is pretty broken

to run alac on slow you need slow on disable but then you miss out on superspeed shatters which is one of the best parts of chrono

pretty bad for pvp, 33% better sounds like a lot but in practice it isn't bcs of low uptime, but good in pve

Are u serious?. What great builds do thieves offer? Keep in mind, everyone has to play a different build..5 thieves against 5 guards? I doubt there would be any chance for the thieves if the guards are just camping close and mid, there's just nowhere near enough damage nor sustain to do anything. Again.. what great builds have thieves available? p/d condi? Is pretty much useless against guards, especially with a support.. d/p? Nowhere near enough damage to spike through aegis, shields, ...Same for Rev, Necro, probably even Ranger. Imagine thinking thief can do nothing about aegis and blocks I mean, sure, you can use shortbow 4 to interrupt blocks, but how exactly do you intend for the thieves to kill the guardians? The guardian can literally just sit on the points and the thieves are powerless to do anything. 5 thieves in general is atrociously bad, 5 thieves and you cant share builds? Yeesh. Ok get a team of 5 guards and I’ll gladly beat u with a 5 thief team. No, you wont. There is a reason people have done well with 5 guard teams in AT before (yes, they were memeing, but still), but no one has even tried to bring a 5 thief team to an AT before. Because they would get clapped and lose in round 1. If I were to put in the effort, what would happen is that your team of 5 thieves would lose embarassingly, and you will ignore it ever happened. But thats not worth the effort. I’m sure u can train for months in preparation for a Daily at. Omegalul your embarrassing your self on the forums. Why would I? If we did it tomorrow, the result would still be the guardian team completely clapping the thief team, because 5 guardians is a bad, but functional, team. Even with non-repeating builds. 5 Thieves is not even functional with repeating builds. Without repeating builds? Youre basically playing 2v5. Than start doing lfgs on NA(as my hours aren’t great for Eu ats) for 5 guard teams and I promise if I see that I’ll make my team go 5 thief....?.... Why? Too much effort for you to in the end just go "ok that didnt count because [insert stupid excuse here]", or just straight up ignore it and pretend it never happened. But just to make it clear to you, what team would you bring? Remember, 5 non-repeating builds. Guardian is easy. Burn Guardian, Support Firebrand, Longbow Trapper DH, Radiant Greatsword, and idk, bunker DH. Outside of the last one, these are legit powerful builds, that fulfill every role you need, and are completely functional as a teamcomp. Thief on the other hand? Well, you have D/P thief, a decap and +1 bot that cant 1v1 or teamfight. S/D thief, a decap and +1 bot that cant 1v1 or teamfight. DE, a decap and +1 bot that cant 1v1 or teamfight and isnt good at being a decap and +1 bot. Core condi thief a ... you get the gist. And then, what, P/P thief, which is also that? Thats 5 builds all fulfilling the same role (which you want only 1 of). Only 2 of them are arguably good. Maybe 3. And none of them can 1v1 a guardian, or even come close to hoping to win a teamfight. So, again, how does that team win?core support guard might be better than support fb right now

lmao you guys defending this rune would legit defend vampirism rune in 2015, such losers

They do... what do you mean? Also remove trapper runes! If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap.And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake.You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581This you? In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. You did this before, it's becoming boring. Nice job misrepresenting what i said. Removal of the root system isn't a nerf, especially if the skills applying it become simple AoE. This could mean dodging the initial root application could then apply it again should you dodge the wrong direction. Yes, you did and it's obvious it's just to remove a build you don't like dealing with. You brought up class identity and I elaborated on that point, not irrelevant beyond what you bring into the fold. This childish mentality of nefing all frustration and obstacles that aren't mechanically unsound or have glaring inconsistencies is what's driving PvP into the ground. Bring tools to counter the build or die to it over and over, your choice. you complained it isnt affected by condis, making it so would be a nerf

this build is ResidentSleeper