Please, Renown Heart quests in Cantha End of dragons Expansion!

[hugo.4705]

Please, add quests in Cantha. HoT didn't have them, and still to me today it feels very weird. Maybe because it was an hostile region, but since cantha is a friendly region, habited, I see no issues pushing to remove quests. It isn't a matter of are quests boring or not, it is a matter of what brought the quests to the game?

And they do have a very important role, I send you here:

 

Well, I will answer you:

1/Lore. Many quests feature Npcs, with unique names, even the heart quest npc has some story to tell you. Remove quests and it is easily 70% of the lore in core tyria that is removed? How so? Would anyone spot the charrs versus ghost or flame legion if there wasn't quests telling you while they are fighting each other and what actions they do to sabotage enemies plans? It introduce items and devices with names and give them a purpose. It allows the players to see the lore behind the map and how factions interact with each others. Here is a fun statistic, most of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Destructible_objects are part of quests. It means that without those, you would know nothing about the main 5 races. Why? Because just playing the main story doesn't grant you 100% of story and lore knowledge in guild wars 2, you have to earn it, seek for the little things.

2/Living world. Remove quests and events and the map is a dead empty coffin. They are, with the meta event and the landscape the cement that allow the map to exist to have a sense in the guild wars 2 universe. All map have a purpose, a step of a story, a dragon domain, making you discovering particular enemies or the culture happening there. Would have you guessed that Olmakhan were seeking honey or fishing fish if there was no events or quests regarding those? Would you know there were farmers in Queensdale without quests? How about metrica, will you be aware of a power plant powering energy grid without anybody telling you? That some evil faction is doing mayhem somewhere?

3-Completing the story at a smaller scale seeing the involvement of locals, their all day life to see the story behind the development of the map. You can't state a breath taking living world if the world isn't living. Without all those scenes of all days life and only the story steps to follow, then, why having maps? Let all be just instances. The quests are part of the little things you can seek for, which make exploration fun.

4-Quests ARE the way to earn EXCLUSIVE REWARDS. A high number of Gizmos, minis or endless tonics come from quests. Permit them several well known one like "Inquest Position rewinder". As endless tonics, the "Endless awakened archer tonic" can be cited. They are also sources of weapons for karma. I let you explore https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Renown_heart_NPCs. Some are even offering ascended or map currencies! They complete what sell Volatile/Instable magic vendors. Btw, I doubt those will be in cantha so renown hearts can sell those ascended.

5-Quests offer good amount of Experience and can be a real help to level masteries, since they involve in many cases killing foes which reward xp.

6-If quests are part of the core map completion along vistas and Point of Interest, it is because they have role to play: The point of interest as they names indicate have the goal to make discover an unique place, just like you would find a memorial or interesting artpiece on google maps. Vistas are equivalent to panoramas, they offer good view of the surrounding, putting under the spotlight an ensemble. Quests have the tough role of linking the inhabitants evil or allies together while featuring this landscape, places visited by the player to contribute to the quest by doing various actions.

 

So no, the game doesn't have to be simplified to level 0 for the sake of finishing faster completion. No quests or any other component of map completion have to be removed. No they don't have to be removed because some of them feels dull or boring, not every task in RL life feel interesting. No Guild wars 2 doesn't deserve losing one of its forces, quests weren't in IBS but this doesn't mean they worth nothing. They aren't in IBS nor LS4E6 or Cursed shore because those are WAR ZONES. They should be in Cantha.

 

Cantha without quests it is easily 50% of living world and lore that is scrapped. And this would be devastating. The main story will not do everything.

Here me out, if Hearts are here, I just want, if they are repeatable, that we can access the merchant after completing  them one time. No need to redo it each time to access the merchant.

Edited August 25, 2021 by hugo.4705

[Linken.6345]

No this can all be done with dynamic events like the game was supposed to have if people that beta tested it did not feel lost and confused.

Now 3d expansion in its finally time to go back to how it should have been.

About your second point let me just counter with.

What is more living a heart npc that stand at the same place all the time or a npc that first grab your attention with a marker above head, you start a conversation and that triggers a dynamic escort event more npcs join in and you start walking/riding.

When you get to the destination a second event triggers that they talked about needing help while you walked to the place.

And when finished another npc start talking with the first one and there is another problem over there that could use some assistance.

 

To me the second one is more living and we had that all the way back in core maps.

Wayfarer Foothills bear stampede chain anyone?

[Trise.2865]

After all the effort you put in to getting Renown Hearts *out* of new maps?

[Dante.1763]

Hearts are fine, if they arent repeatable, so thats what ill ask for, non repeatable hearts(If they are required at all.)

 

Drizzlewood is one of the most alive feeling maps honestly, and i want more like it. No hearts are better, but the maps need to be designed around not needing them at all, and well Drizzlewood is exactly that. Heres hoping for more Drizzlewood style maps. Bjora Marches and Grothmar also feel far more alive than any core map.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Dante.1763 said:

Hearts are fine, if they arent repeatable, so thats what ill ask for, non repeatable hearts(If they are required at all.)

 

Drizzlewood is one of the most alive feeling maps honestly, and i want more like it. No hearts are better, but the maps need to be designed around not needing them at all, and well Drizzlewood is exactly that. Heres hoping for more Drizzlewood style maps. Bjora Marches and Grothmar also feel far more alive than any core map.

The reason drizzlewood is more alive is that it showers you in rewards more then any other map.

[Dante.1763]

29 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

The reason drizzlewood is more alive is that it showers you in rewards more then any other map.

Ehh..that isnt why it feels more alive. Thats why players do it of course, but its event after event after event, thats what makes it feel more alive xD

[hugo.4705]

11 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

 

To me the second one is more living and we had that all the way back in core maps.

Wayfarer Foothills bear (holo?) stampede chain anyone?

 

10 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

 

Drizzlewood is one of the most alive feeling maps honestly, and i want more like it. No hearts are better, but the maps need to be designed around not needing them at all, and well Drizzlewood is exactly that. Heres hoping for more Drizzlewood style maps. Bjora Marches and Grothmar also feel far more alive than any core map.

And that is the big error you both do, you totally missed what I was speaking of. You  both took a FARMING map or spoke about EVENTS density. You don't care about hearts because you just want rewards and gold that's why citing stampede or drizzle.

The Heart quest Npc is giving you the intel about what is happening what are the main occupations of the inhabirants of this area. What is living is all what you do to help it and speaking through the different nocs on the path.

Those starements fell under the same umbrella as players don't wanting jumping puzzles anymore. Because it doesn't reward ton of gold or can't be farmed then it should be deleted? What a bad mentality.

This have been discussed since a long time, hearts or jp, don't like them? Don't do them. Anet could even do a compromise putting Heart quests in cantha but who don't count for map completion. 

There is a big difference between an "active" map and a map rich of lore and living world that favorize explorations and reward explorers for researching.

An event don't do the role of a quest: they reward, for most of them, bad rewards apart big meta chains or bounties.

An event is a following: need escort! Escorting. Thanks for escorting!

A renodn heart: heart npc giving infos. Doing multiple tasks. A letter thanking you telling you update to the situation after you passed. You make a good action that stay in time not like events that feels stuck in a fractal loop.

Again, if heart quests passed the three original beta events and 3 stress tests without being removed, there is a good reason. Plus, many of events in core maps are in fact here to help you progress a quest. Even in PoF in fact. Sure you could just put lore book everywhere but will not be the same feel as speaking to an npc.

 

I will end by citing the wiki, which everyone knows is made by in game infos and devs statements:

"Hearts are reminiscent of traditionnal quests in other MMORPGs. RATHER THAN BEING GIVEN AS A CHECKLIST OF TASKS A PLAYER NEEDS TO DO IN SEQUENCE, players simply follow a list of possible actions or activities that contribute to the progress of an area's renown heart. Renown heart provide staric content in the absence of events. MUCH OF THE DESIGN OF AREAS WILL HAVE EVENTS AND RENOWN HEARTS OVERLAP ON CONTRIBUTING ACTIONS AND LORE. Hearts reflect regional, broadly accomplished, finite objectives for content, while events are dynamic, specific directives that may be encountered and consequently won or lost multiple time."

I let you search about devs interviews about quests. Surely explained it somewhere in addition of what is said above.

I can get the need to rush, have everything and won rapidly, but in case of exploration, slow is better.

 

Let's be serious: you can't recover 100% of the map with events, this will create hot spots and dead aka cold spots locations. Heart do this role, an area, without events? You put a heart quest there. In every map you can take the example of there are cold spots apart for the one involved in meta chain like silverwastes, dragon stand, dragonfall, grothmar, istan.

Btw doesn't prevent istan to have quests. If there are quests in cantha, no need to have 25 per maps lol, 10 and I'm happy. You know what? Even 6 I am okay with!

Warning, personnal opinion there. I like as much hearts as events. But if I have achievement that tell me do 25 events in the map or do the 13 quests, will pick quests because at least, I revisit the story of the map.

Edited August 26, 2021 by hugo.4705

[Gehenna.3625]

I would like the hearts to stay if ALL of the following are true:

• Not too many (4-6 hearts per map tops)
• No dumb tasks that are ridiculous for a hero that saved Tyria multiple times over
• No tasks that progress too slowly like Lake Doric hearts

[Dante.1763]

30 minutes ago, hugo.4705 said:

 

And that is the big error you both do, you totally missed what I was speaking of. You didn't talk book a core map, you both took a FARMING map. You don't care about hearts because you just want rewards and gold that's why citing stampede or drizzle.

The Heart quest Npc is giving you the intel about what is happening what are the main occupations of the inhabirants of this area. What is living is all what you do to help it and speaking through the different nocs on the path.

Those starements fell under the same umbrella as players don't wanting jumping puzzles anymore. Because it doesn't reward ton of gold or can't be farmed then it should be deleted? What a bad mentality.

This have been discussed since a long time, hearts or jp, don't like them? Don't do them. Anet could even do a compromise putting Heart quests in cantha but who don't count for map completion. 

There is a big difference between an "active" map and a map rich of lore and living world that favorize explorations and reward explorers for researching.

An event don't do the role of a quest: they reward, for most of them, bad rewards apart big meta chains or bounties.

An event is a following: need escort! Escorting. Thanks for escorting!

A renodn heart: heart npc giving infos. Doing multiple tasks. A letter thanking you telling you update to the situation after you passed. You make a good action that stay in time not like events that feels stuck in a fractal loop.

Again, if heart quests passed the three original beta events and 3 stress tests without being removed, there is a good reason. Plus, many of events in core maps are in fact here to help you progress a quest. Even in PoF in fact. Sure you could just put lore book everywhere but will not be the same feel as speaking to an npc.

 

I will end by citing the wiki, which everyone knows is made by in game infos and devs statements:

"Hearts are reminiscent of traditionnal quests in other MMORPGs. RATHER THAN BEING GIVEN AS A CHECKLIST OF TASKS A PLAYER NEEDS TO DO IN SEQUENCE, players simply follow a list of possible actions or activities that contribute to the progress of an area's renown heart. Renown heart provide staric content in the absence of events. MUCH OF THE DESIGN OF AREAS WILL HAVE EVENTS AND RENOWN HEARTS OVERLAP ON CONTRIBUTING ACTIONS AND LORE. Hearts reflect regional, broadly accomplished, finite objectives for content, while events are dynamic, specific directives that may be encountered and consequently won or lost multiple time."

I let you search about devs interviews about quests. Surely explained it somewhere in addition of what is said above.

I can get the need to rush, have everything and won rapidly, but in case of exploration, slow is better.

 

Let's be serious: you can't recover 100% of the map with events, this will create hot spots and dead aka cold spots locations. Heart do this role, an area, without events? You put a heart quest there. In every map you can take the example of there are cold spots apart for the one involved in meta chain like silverwastes, dragon stand, dragonfall, grothmar, istan.

Btw doesn't prevent istan to have quests. If there are quests in cantha, no need to have 25 per maps lol, 10 and I'm happy. You know what? Even 6 I am okay with!

Warning, personnal opinion there. I like as much hearts as events. But if I have achievement that tell me do 25 events in the map or do the 13 quests, will pick quests because at least, I revisit the story of the map.

No, i would rather be doing events that tell a story(drizzlewood, bjora) than stop and do hearts, further alot of heart areas are filled with events. I can only think of a couple that fit the "hearts fill a void" concept.

Loot and rewards dont matter. I have more fun exploring heartless maps than i do maps with hearts.

My issue with hearts is that anet is awful at balancing out their progress, even in core maps. Every activity you do should progress it just as fast as the others, you shouldnt have to wait for items to respawn either.

I dont have an issue with core hearts(well, 75% are decent the rest are bad.), i would rather not have them at all however and LWS hearts? Those hearts can be burned and the ashes destroyed. Repeatable hearts that vendor lock a merchant are frustrating, doubly so if they progress slowly.

Everything on these forums are personal opinions for the most. Mine is hearts are boring and bland and dont feel alive at all.

Even Orr feels more alive than Plains of Ashford.

[Dante.1763]

30 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I would like the hearts to stay if ALL of the following are true:

• Not too many (4-6 hearts per map tops)
• No dumb tasks that are ridiculous for a hero that saved Tyria multiple times over
• No tasks that progress too slowly like Lake Doric hearts

This. This is good.

Add no more repeating hearts to it and id be happy.

[Fueki.4753]

I'd love to see hearts in EoD.

I don't want them to automatically reset though.

[kharmin.7683]

5 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

This. This is good.

Add no more repeating hearts to it and id be happy.

I don't mind repeating hearts.  I mind being forced to repeat them in order to deal with a vendor, though.  Allow players to repeat hearts; just don't lock things behind them to force repeating them.

[Blude.6812]

6 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I would like the hearts to stay if ALL of the following are true:

• Not too many (4-6 hearts per map tops)
• No dumb tasks that are ridiculous for a hero that saved Tyria multiple times over
• No tasks that progress too slowly like Lake Doric hearts

I would add that the vendor should always be available after the 1st completion, even if the heart is repeatable.

[Gibson.4036]

I've been thinking about this after seeing the discussion here. I didn't really have a feeling one way or the other about renown hearts.

 

After pondering a while, it does occur to me that hearts give me something to focus on when I'm not seeing events nearby. I've definitely had the experience in no-heart zones that I'm chasing events all over, and feeling like they are popping somewhere just beyond my range to see them. It can be frustrating to run all over and just miss them.

 

When I'm doing zone completion, though, during the time it takes to stop and take care of a heart I usually see an event or three pop up. They're useful that way to bridge between events and give a focus.

 

The repeatable renown hearts I can think of have been pretty easy to knock out again whenever I'm in need of the karma vendor, so that seems like a minor problem.

So I guess I come down on the side of it being nice to have a mix of renown hearts and events in a given zone.

[Kalocin.5982]

Make em account based and I won't mind them lol. Joking aside, it'd be cool to see a new system in place instead of hearts

[Dante.1763]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I don't mind repeating hearts.  I mind being forced to repeat them in order to deal with a vendor, though.  Allow players to repeat hearts; just don't lock things behind them to force repeating them.

Or that, that also works.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

I'm fine if there aren't hearts if there is some kind of repeatable reward track of value or thematic chains of events.

[Siddius.3917]

I don't mind Renown hearts in EoD but not as much as in core Tyria because the only reason I always postpone world completion as the last task for creating a legendary is because I utterly hate most of the renown hearts. Sure there are some fun ones but a lot of them take up so much time and aren't that much fun once you've already done them before. 

So after reading this discussion I think it makes sense for the maps to have some hearts or dynamic occurrences that change the map permanently for the player. Just as long as they aren't repeatable and not tedious meaningless tasks.

[Linken.6345]

30 minutes ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

I'm really confused, does OP want hearts, no hearts, or did they actually order a hamburger?

They want hearts this thread is made to counter another thread that got popular.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/100441-no-more-chore-i-mean-hearts-please/page/6/?tab=comments#comment-1445622

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Bristingr.5034]

Fine. Merge Hearts and Chalice of Tears-level JPs together for EoD. After all, you don't have to do them...

[nosleepdemon.1368]

1 hour ago, Bristingr.5034 said:

Fine. Merge Hearts and Chalice of Tears-level JPs together for EoD. After all, you don't have to do them...

 

How dare you! Hearts are *not* poorly though-out trash-tier glitchy garbage!

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

 

How dare you! Hearts are *not* poorly though-out trash-tier glitchy garbage!

Did you miss the /s after that post?