Bladesworn? I thought it was revenant.

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

They literally mention in the trailer that the Gunsaber uses magically imbued cartridges.

It's the very same concept as Gunbreakers using magical bullets.

oh oki thats alittle less cool then. but none the less.

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

What primarily needs to be better is core Warrior, not a bolted on elite specialization.

Bladesworn should be around were Reaper is and Berserker needs to get buffed to that level, too.

Then core Warrior needs a flat 20%-30% buff across the board.

If the increased damage only comes from Bladesworn, it will just be bad every other part of Warrior.

While i agree with your Premise i do have a few issues to what your writing here.

Why are we asking Bladesworn to be Spellbreaker 2.0?.... Spellbreaker is the one thats susposed to have the increased Defense with its counterstrike ability as a trade off for DPS realistically, spellbreaker should be where Reaper is not bladesworn lol.

this sounds like youy want bladesworn to intentionally be bad to ensure bladesworn being strong wont become the argument against Warrior being buffed in all honesty.. and trying to throw another elite in the bin so we can spend another 3 years as Berserkers just to keep raving for a Rework seems ludicurious to me.

bladesworn looks like its Purely Offensive for one, it isnt gaining much range at all considering this is a offhand weapoin not a mainhand so u cant use a ranged gain to be the reasoning or justification for it to intentionally have low DPS. Bladesworn IF it brings offensive Utility should prolly be Between Spellbreaker and Berserker at best DPS Wise.

and If thats the case, it needs some good utility.

im ngl im hoping it becoems the new Meta and heres exactly why?

 

Playing Berserker for 9 years Doesnt sound fun, litterally why would people ever wish this to become the case, we do need some form of power creep. and im afraid we arent gonna get the rework. we've been waiting how long on one to happen?...

Edited September 16, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Naxos.2503]

Personally, I'm only saddened by the fact it's Offhand pistol, and not Mainhand. I'd love to play a more buff/tactics heavy warrior with pistol and warhorn. Instead I'll have to make do with err... Well I guess more damage then. I noticed some of the gunsaber kit dealt burning damage, so atleast it has Condi potential, but then again, so does berserker...

I am Genuinely confused as to what niche this fills. The only thing I can think of is to have a weaponswitch build, to effectively switch to 3 different types of weapon setup, and constantly switch around to bridge cooldowns and stack weaponswitch sigils procs. Which is okay but... A bit disappointing so far. We'll see if the utility and class mechanics manages to raise that up. I'll be mourning my tactician warrior idea :< 

[Puck.3697]

52 minutes ago, Naxos.2503 said:

Personally, I'm only saddened by the fact it's Offhand pistol, and not Mainhand. I'd love to play a more buff/tactics heavy warrior with pistol and warhorn. Instead I'll have to make do with err... Well I guess more damage then. I noticed some of the gunsaber kit dealt burning damage, so atleast it has Condi potential, but then again, so does berserker...

I am Genuinely confused as to what niche this fills. The only thing I can think of is to have a weaponswitch build, to effectively switch to 3 different types of weapon setup, and constantly switch around to bridge cooldowns and stack weaponswitch sigils procs. Which is okay but... A bit disappointing so far. We'll see if the utility and class mechanics manages to raise that up. I'll be mourning my tactician warrior idea :< 

tbh im kinda glad its a off hand.. to me a mainhand pistol just doesnt feel like something the warrior would use, it seems more like u'd use ur Sword to gutt ur target and Shoot the guy running up behind u.

[Naxos.2503]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

tbh im kinda glad its a off hand.. to me a mainhand pistol just doesnt feel like something the warrior would use, it seems more like u'd use ur Sword to gutt ur target and Shoot the guy running up behind u.

Yeah, I get the feeling, though in my opinion, buffers are more efficient at range than in the thick of it, it's easier to see what's happening when you're not in the face of what your group is fighting. But then Warrior falls drastically short, as it's two ranged weapons are both damage dealers, one is Power, the other is Condi. A mainhand pistol, whether it be condi or power could have allowed a more tactical Warrior, where they can pair a range weapon with some of the less damage focused offhand weapons, Warhorn and Shield. I'd have just liked having the option of playing a non damage focused warrior 😛

We'll see those, maybe everyone will get something they like out of utilities/mechanics

[Fueki.4753]

5 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

oh oki thats alittle less cool then. but none the less.

While i agree with your Premise i do have a few issues to what your writing here.

Why are we asking Bladesworn to be Spellbreaker 2.0?.... Spellbreaker is the one thats susposed to have the increased Defense with its counterstrike ability as a trade off for DPS realistically, spellbreaker should be where Reaper is not bladesworn lol.

this sounds like youy want bladesworn to intentionally be bad to ensure bladesworn being strong wont become the argument against Warrior being buffed in all honesty.. and trying to throw another elite in the bin so we can spend another 3 years as Berserkers just to keep raving for a Rework seems ludicurious to me.

bladesworn looks like its Purely Offensive for one, it isnt gaining much range at all considering this is a offhand weapoin not a mainhand so u cant use a ranged gain to be the reasoning or justification for it to intentionally have low DPS. Bladesworn IF it brings offensive Utility should prolly be Between Spellbreaker and Berserker at best DPS Wise.

and If thats the case, it needs some good utility.

im ngl im hoping it becoems the new Meta and heres exactly why?

 

Playing Berserker for 9 years Doesnt sound fun, litterally why would people ever wish this to become the case, we do need some form of power creep. and im afraid we arent gonna get the rework. we've been waiting how long on one to happen?...

I don't want it to be intentionally bad.

But I don't want it to over-perform and thus become an excuse for Arenanet to not fix core Warrior's insufficiencies.

It ought to be a side-grade to a Berserker with it's problems being fixed (or ideally roll back the stupid revamp of 2019).

 

Nevertheless, I'd rather see something else than yet another elite specialization that will just fulfil the one roll all other warriors already fulfil: Banner-DPS.

And Bladesworn definitely looks like Warrior will just be another 2-4 years of nothing but Banner-DPS.

Arenanet's obvious profession favouritism aside, if Necromancer can have a support elite specialization, it can't be too hard to make one for Warrior as well.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[firedragon.8953]

14 hours ago, Quench.7091 said:

Some of the names aren't really landing for people.

Probably the same person in charge of naming the 9th birthday title. 😅

[Valfar.3761]

I don't get the FF gunblade comparisons. It looks and is wielded nothing like Squall's gunblade or Gunbreakers in FF14. The draw pose is indeed stereotypical anime samurai draw cuts, but that's it. No FF gunblade wielders ever used that pose. The Bladesworn's Gunsaber reminds me more of the swords the Cygnar use in Warmachine.

 

https://i.imgur.com/c7krgLa.png

 

Except with fire themed elemental attacks rather than lightning.

 

https://i.imgur.com/lbNkrOE.jpg

[Fueki.4753]

43 minutes ago, Valfar.3761 said:

I don't get the FF gunblade comparisons. It looks and is wielded nothing like Squall's gunblade or Gunbreakers in FF14. The draw pose is indeed stereotypical anime samurai draw cuts, but that's it. No FF gunblade wielders ever used that pose. The Bladesworn's Gunsaber reminds me more of the swords the Cygnar use in Warmachine.

The concept of it being a sword fused with a gun that issues magically imbued bullets/cartridges is the very same as Gunbreaker in FF14.

And since Final Fantasy uses the most iconic (as far as I am aware) versions of this concept, people naturally think of Final Fantasy.

The differences are only aesthetical.

[Puck.3697]

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I don't want it to be intentionally bad.

But I don't want it to over-perform and thus become an excuse for Arenanet to not fix core Warrior's insufficiencies.

It ought to be a side-grade to a Berserker with it's problems being fixed (or ideally roll back the stupid revamp of 2019).

tbh.. given the current state of multiple other speccs, its the likelyhood to happen even if bladesworn is bad, how many core Speccs are still functional against Elites these days?.... far less then those who are useless.

Its Normality to expect realistically core specializations just arent gonna get fixed.. .they just run on elite speccs power creeping effectively and i find it super unlikely that'll change. why? because the elite speccs is what sells the expansion to the majority effectively.

i mean berserker is already being used as the excuse to not fix warriors problems realistically.. we all read the balance posts.. "Berserker is performing well in all game modes".

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Nevertheless, I'd rather see something else than yet another elite specialization that will just fulfil the one roll all other warriors already fulfil: Banner-DPS.

wont change regardless im afraid.. even if u have a Alac/Quickness build avaliable to you in the new specc. theres sooo many who can now fill those roles.. but cannot fill the banner role... Its not realistically replacable even if warriors could be healers. it dont matter.. because others can replace you but cannot replace ur banners. ur Banners are stand alone buffs which stack with everything and only avaliable to warrior.

it is Irrelevant to what support we get, what offensive boons we get... if it gets in the way of using banners u simply will not use it in most ideal compositions. and if it doesnt get in the way.. u will simply do that + Banners im afraid.

 

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Arenanet's obvious profession favouritism aside, if Necromancer can have a support elite specialization, it can't be too hard to make one for Warrior as well.

While true. getting a Healing elite wont fix the problem concerning banners.

Lets say for example

you have a Ranger, a Necromancer a Warrior and Guardian in your Raid group.. lets fit those into the composition.

They can ALL play the heal role.

only Warrior can supply Banner.

Scourge can provide Barrier WHILE healing.

Ranger can heal with druid and provide Spirits.

Scourge + Druid healers, Warrior Banner slave.

you cant fix this ultimatium, im sorry but a Healing spec would be dead on release in current circumstances, this game litterally has No need for another healing proffession. and thats just how it is, 0 Content demands high source healing realistically and even in circumstances they do theres simply better options that can fill the role realistically.

The reason banners have high demand is because Warriors are the only proffession who can supply them and they're needed regardles of the current boons your team holds, you cannot replace that role realistically.

the fix u want requires a fundamental rework of the proffession and Banners.. not a Support elite realistically, the problem is their never doing it. Why market the Core proffessions when they need to sell the Elites to players to make Sales? .. bladesworn is Either on par or warrior spends 3 more years dead.

asking for a Replacable role achieves nothing. theres 0 need to bring a warrior for healing. theres soo many proffessions that simply do the same thing.. the reason Banner has become a fundamental Staple to the proffession is because It ISNT replacable.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Daddy.8125 Banners are in no way shape or form needed anywhere by anyone outside of the rez from Battle Standard. People like them because they speed up PvE endgame content marginally, but for speed runners that makes all the difference.

 

You will not fail a raid or FotM CM because there wasn't a banner slave.

I have never been kicked from a party because I did not run banners, because people understand that they really are not needed, not like how Alacrity or Quickness are needed.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Daddy.8125 Banners are in no way shape or form needed anywhere by anyone outside of the rez from Battle Standard. People like them because they speed up PvE endgame content marginally, but for speed runners that makes all the difference.

 

You will not fail a raid or FotM CM because there wasn't a banner slave.

I have never been kicked from a party because I did not run banners, because people understand that they really are not needed, not like how Alacrity or Quickness are needed.

your right u wont fail a Raid based on them... U wont fail a raid based on if u do or dont have alacrity or quickness either... Effectively every raids been proven u can do it with a raid of level 76 core proffessions realistically.

you could make the same argument to say you Dont need a Healing warrior to manage a raid either. the fact of the matter is PvE requires you to know the tactics.. the additional fluff like boons etc etc only support a faster kill time realistically, games programmed to be doable on a raid doing 18k DPS Each.. while the skill ceiling lays at about 40k DPS.

but if we're talking boons, composition and things we're obviously talking the more min-max side of it, where its kinda proven banner warrior loses Less DPS then it gives to the raid realistically.

with the quantity of role oppression. we dont need anything realistically

2x Chrono can Tank + 100% Quickness.

Scourge can Heal + Barrier supply.

Renegade can 100% Alacrity solo.

Boon Herald will Extend all boons + Supply base boons.

I mean why would u need anything else? 😛 what could a Support warrior realistically brign that isnt already brought to the table else where?.. a Defensive Support Warrior. is a Guardian.. thats what guardians are lol, Warrior playstyle isnt distinct enough not to end up feeling like any other healer realistically.. i can get the argument people make for Rev and thief etc etc. where their gameplay simply doesnt exist.

but you'd just end up with a Guardian At tthe end of the day. 

but it doesnt change the point of the argument realistically

If you a Support warrior.. why wouldnt you run banners. There are forms of defensive utility that could work, such as Barrier etc etc.. but that'd be a Utility support nad imho feel super weird if we're wielding a Gunblade for that.. i'd consider Staff / monk to be more appropicate for that

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[superkaratemonkey.7408]

On 9/15/2021 at 9:08 AM, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

People here really thinking that FF made the gunblade...

These things exist in reality...

Right but you're then comparing IRL items to people comparing design concepts from within 2 games, context is important here.

Everything isn't that deep, they're just comparing the origination of the design concept for the gunblade within game contexts.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

2 hours ago, superkaratemonkey.7408 said:

Right but you're then comparing IRL items to people comparing design concepts from within 2 games, context is important here.

Everything isn't that deep, they're just comparing the origination of the design concept for the gunblade within game contexts.

I think he was getting at that including the gunblade/gunsabre in any game is not "stealing"/"borrowing"/"copying" the idea from any game since the actual idea existed in real life prior to any game taking it to a fantastical degree. It'd be like saying "Rifles/Pistols existed in Final Fantasy/Warframe and GW2 copied them" when the game launched in 2012. There really isn't any design concepts that can be added to any game anymore that doesn't already exist in other games.

Gunblades typically appear to be mostly pistol oriented, whereas the gunsabre looks more like a 2-handcannon, so still a unique take on an existing design.

That said, Lantern-Shields when?

[BlackTruth.6813]

On 9/15/2021 at 11:02 AM, mythical.6315 said:

Looks like they just literally took the gunblade from FF14 and made it a DPS class for GW2. 

 

It actually came further from that, it came from final fantasy 8 (at least the idea for an edgy swordsman)

 

In which case, I'm cool with this elite spec if you can fit in unblockables or arms or not need fast hands. It looks like a raw power spec (sadly for the people who wanted a support 3rd spec)

Edited September 16, 2021 by BlackTruth.6813

[mythical.6315]

2 hours ago, BlackTruth.6813 said:

 

It actually came further from that, it came from final fantasy 8 (at least the idea for an edgy swordsman)

 

In which case, I'm cool with this elite spec if you can fit in unblockables or arms or not need fast hands. It looks like a raw power spec (sadly for the people who wanted a support 3rd spec)

 

While the gunblade itself did, the magically infused bullets/cartridges came from FF14.  That's why I said the latter rather than the former.

[BlackTruth.6813]

7 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

While the gunblade itself did, the magically infused bullets/cartridges came from FF14.  That's why I said the latter rather than the former.

 

god forbid that the mechanic is actually press this skill again at a specific time press (R1 for trigger aka extra damage right) though, but yeah cartridge does sound ff14 and will probably be the mechanic

Edited September 17, 2021 by BlackTruth.6813

[Zekent.3652]

Okay FF fans, calm down, FF didn't created the gunsword

[Fueki.4753]

31 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Okay FF fans, calm down, FF didn't created the gunsword

As far as I am aware, they did create the concept of swords using magically imbued bullets/cartridges.

Those are nothing like Bayonets or those ugly pistols with dagger blades bolted onto them.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[BlackTruth.6813]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

As far as I am aware, they did create the concept of swords using magically imbued bullets/cartridges.

Those are nothing like Bayonets or those ugly pistols with dagger blades bolted onto them.

this XD

[Ratnoon.4251]

On 9/15/2021 at 5:18 PM, Ferret.3087 said:

Even worse is people thinking FF 14 is the game where Gunblade comes from - Everyone needs to go play FF 8 right now.

Oh look! It's the guy from Fortnite!

[Peacekid.1463]

sword + pistol = gunsabre?bladesworn?

mace + pistol =? no blade

axe + pistol = ? has blade

???

 

[Acelidon.1358]

Gunbreaker is the best elite revealed so far 

[Raknar.4735]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

As far as I am aware, they did create the concept of swords using magically imbued bullets/cartridges.

Those are nothing like Bayonets or those ugly pistols with dagger blades bolted onto them.

While it isn‘t a game, RWBY already used that concept before Shadowbringers and the Gunbreaker came out.

More specifically, Weiss‘ weapon Myrtenaster uses cartridges filled with special dust to enhance the weapon‘s abilities.

What I’m saying is I don‘t know where the concept was first introduced, but it wasn‘t FFXIV.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Fueki.4753]

12 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

While it isn‘t a game, RWBY already used that concept before Shadowbringers and the Gunbreaker came out.

More specifically, Weiss‘ weapon Myrtenaster uses cartridges filled with special dust to enhance the weapon‘s abilities.

Final Fantasy 8 came out in 1999. Gunbreaker in FF14 is not the first iteration of that concept.

RWBY came out in 2013 (I think). But even among cartoons, RWBY isn't the first one to use that concept.

2005's Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha A's also introduced a system with magic-filled cartridges enhancing their weaponry. There possibly are even older cartoons using that concept.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Raknar.4735]

30 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Final Fantasy 8 came out in 1999. Gunbreaker in FF14 is not the first iteration of that concept.

RWBY came out in 2013 (I think). But even among cartoons, RWBY isn't the first one to use that concept.

2005's Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha A's also introduced a system with magic-filled cartridges enhancing their weaponry. There possibly are even older cartoons using that concept.

FF8 didn‘t use magic-filled cartridges afaik, that‘s why I was referring to Gunbreakers.

If you‘re strictly looking for gunblades, as in no magic enhancing stuff, you don‘t even have to look into cartoons. The real world has examples of the gunblade concept long before FF was a thing.

A belgian gunblade: 

https://www.collectorebooks.com/gregg01/Lot-143.htm

A cutlass pistol: 

https://americanhistory.si.edu/onthewater/collection/1980.0399.0907.html

A sword pistol: 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sword-pistol-given-to-nelsons-friend-on-sale-v5zs6tf3z6s

 

Even weirder combinations of weapons that aren‘t only a mix of gun & blade: 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Raknar.4735