Unlink trait and elite weapon?

[decease.3215]

Wouldnt it be nice if we can use elite specilization weapons without spec into that specialization?  Switch trait and suddenly dont know how to fire a rifle just make no sense.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by decease.3215

[Ultramex.1506]

This idea have been brought up so many times now (but not as much as pvp duel)
iirc, not many like that idea or many do, idk it just a balancing nightmare

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, decease.3215 said:

Wouldnt it be nice if we can use elite specilization weapons without spec into that specialization?  Switch trait and suddenly dont know how to fire a rifle just make no sense.

 

 

Nice? Sure, everything sounds nice which grants more options.

Does it make sense design, balance, lore or even just simplicity wise? No. Most players are already absolutely incompetent at making decent builds or even just "okay" builds, no reason to add even more weapons on top for people to fail even more at build creation.

Also as mentioned by @Ultramex.1506 this has been discussed in the past. It is highly unlikely that the developers would make their life even more of a nightmare design wise than what it already is with elite specialization weapons being locked to each elite.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

How would that work if the weapon/weapon's skill use an Elite Specialization' mechanic? 

Do the Devs have to create more skills for that weapon?  Does the weapon then use some other Profession's skills?

What about the traits that are associated with that weapon?

[Sigmoid.7082]

There's also things like not needing to consider the balance between spec weapons when making a new one. e.g. When making weaver Anet didn't need to consider warhorn , and when making Catalyst they didn't need to consider dual skills for hammer nor worry about hammers finishers and aura share on tempest etc

[Ashantara.8731]

6 hours ago, decease.3215 said:

Wouldnt it be nice if we can use elite specilization weapons without spec into that specialization?  Switch trait and suddenly dont know how to fire a rifle just make no sense.

 

 

It would have been nice if we didn't have elite specs at all, i.e. if they had rather kept GW1's profession and skill system to begin with. Simple concept, the option of dual-classing, and 2 new professions per expansion that fit their respective expac setting perfectly.

 

Instead, they have created such a mishmash with their trait lines and elite specs that professions have lost their basic identity. And now that they need to come up with new elite specs for each expac, it's getting wilder and weirder - like, "How do I create something new out of this chaos? Oh, let's try this and that!"

 

It was a very bad decision to drop Guild Wars' initial system, which was perfect, great fun, super flexible, yet easy to balance (because it was much simpler at its core).

[Dean Calaway.9718]

[This message is unwelcomed and was removed.]

Edited September 30, 2021 by Dean Calaway.9718

[LSD.4673]

the deep an expensive lores an delicate balances means it UNPOSSIBLE!!

 

imagine conplex guardian with AXE?? No. SENSE! but deep lores of firebrenge mean axe ok

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

8 hours ago, decease.3215 said:

Wouldnt it be nice if we can use elite specilization weapons without spec into that specialization?  Switch trait and suddenly dont know how to fire a rifle just make no sense.

 

 

While it would be nice, it doesn't make sense for some elite specs. Daredevil rifle wouldn't work with such a system.

[decease.3215]

6 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

How would that work if the weapon/weapon's skill use an Elite Specialization' mechanic? 

Do the Devs have to create more skills for that weapon?  Does the weapon then use some other Profession's skills?

What about the traits that are associated with that weapon?

make a normal version for people without the specialization?   btw which ES are you talking about, i was unaware of this..

 

problem is.. we have equipment template and trait template.  when switching build, sometime only trait get switched.   and as result, end up with a weapon that can't even fire normally.  

 

eg. daredevil with rifle

 

p.s. or maybe automatically switch to elite trait when equipping weapon?  

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

30 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

make a normal version for people without the specialization?   btw which ES are you talking about, i was unaware of this..

 

problem is.. we have equipment template and trait template.  when switching build, sometime only trait get switched.   and as result, end up with a weapon that can't even fire normally.  

 

eg. daredevil with rifle

 

p.s. or maybe automatically switch to elite trait when equipping weapon?  

  So, now suggesting that Professions can use the Elite Specialization weapon without even unlocking the Elite Specialization?  Suggesting that happens regardless of the acquisition of the associated expansion, as well?  Or must they, at least, own the pertinent expansion?

[decease.3215]

13 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

  So, now suggesting that Professions can use the Elite Specialization weapon without even unlocking the Elite Specialization?  Suggesting that happens regardless of the acquisition of the associated expansion, as well?  Or must they, at least, own the pertinent expansion?

the first trait of each Elite specialization, is a passive that grant the usage of specific weapon.  you still need that trait.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You said, "make a normal version for people without the specialization?"

So, players can use the Elite Specialization weapon without acquiring the Elite Specialization? 

[Sobx.1758]

I thought about it and came to the conclusion that no, it wouldn't be nice.

[decease.3215]

Yes, for people without the specialization.   at least for me, i can't be daredevil and deadeye at the same time, when i switch to deadeye, i don't have daredevil.

 

plus what is the big deal?  without trait, these weapon will not make huge difference. 

 

p.s. i have both expansion,i pre order the base game before release.  i pre order EOD..  i don't mind people without expansion gain access to these weapon.   but that is not my point here.  

[Sigmoid.7082]

3 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

plus what is the big deal?  without trait, these weapon will not make huge difference. 

This kinda ignores all the ones that don't have a trait doesn't it? As well as a bunch of other clear issues.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Sigmoid.7082

[ASP.8093]

11 hours ago, decease.3215 said:

Wouldnt it be nice if we can use elite specilization weapons without spec into that specialization?  Switch trait and suddenly dont know how to fire a rifle just make no sense.

Deadeye is the only elite spec that opens up Rifle, so I gotta ask…

Why the heck would you want to play a non-Deadeye Rifle build?

Edited September 18, 2021 by ASP.8093

[decease.3215]

1 minute ago, ASP.8093 said:

Deadeye is the only elite spec that opens up Rifle, so I gotta ask…

Why the heck would you want to play a non-Deadeye Rifle build?

 

because when i do hard content, i tend to switch build around.  sometimes i forget the change weapon spec, and end up with daredevil with rifle/pistol.   obviously i can't use any of the rifle skill, i can only one set of weapon.   this is even more frustrating when you build around switching weapon to gain bonus. 

 

i need some sort of one key switch both weapon and trait.. or at least able to use my off spec weapon in case i made a mistake during quick switch.

[Loules.8601]

5 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

It would have been nice if we didn't have elite specs at all, i.e. if they had rather kept GW1's profession and skill system to begin with. Simple concept, the option of dual-classing, and 2 new professions per expansion that fit their respective expac setting perfectly.

 

GW1 system - pretty boring in my opinion. Same few working builds for every class (unlike many like to imagine). Mesmer in GW1 - e-surge and signet-one, maybe another situational build or two. But almost everyone - just e-surge. 
And unlike GW2 with new e-spec identity and few unique things - GW1 just allow you to use abilities from other classes. Yes - few interesting and unique combos (like 55-monk), but... just basic classes with few additions.
You can log-in in GW1 today and see for yourself. 

If we talk about possible combinations - yes, GW1 have much more of those.
If we talk about real-working combinations and unique flavor - GW2 have much more of this than GW1, I think.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Loules.8601
typos

[ASP.8093]

5 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Instead, they have created such a mishmash with their trait lines and elite specs that professions have lost their basic identity. And now that they need to come up with new elite specs for each expac, it's getting wilder and weirder - like, "How do I create something new out of this chaos? Oh, let's try this and that!"

Which professions have "lost their basic identity?"

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Loules.8601 said:

GW1 system - pretty boring in my opinion. Same few working builds for every class (unlike many like to imagine).

So the same as this system, where you have only a handful of builds that are viable in end-game/meta content. 😉

Seriously, I found the old system a lot more compelling and flexible, and the dual-class option was a lot of fun to play around with. And new professions were also a lot more fun than elite specs.

2 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

Which professions have "lost their basic identity?"

All of them. Look at some of the new specs and the mixup of mechanics that are borrowed from other professions. Why is that? Because there is only so much you can do with those limitations until you run out of ideas for mechanics and start to borrow.

I prefer simpler and more flexible to complex and limited.

Besides, the whole concept of "We no longer have the holy trinity with this new system" has proven to be an illusion a long time ago. You still need tanks, supporters and raw damage dealers (e.g., in raids). If nothing else, we at least have a "holy duality" in most scenarios (namely DPS and support).

Edited September 18, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Angel Hunter D.5037]

Opening up elite weapons would be nice, though personally I'd be just as happy with the core classes getting a new weapon every now and then. I think it'd be great for the game and a lot of fun.

[Bookah pls.9352]

I sometimes wish for a feature that allowed you to have a different 3rd traitline bound to your secondary weapon slot.

It would be a balancing issue sure but it just feels right.

[LucianDK.8615]

Absolute a poor idea. The espec weapons in many cases depends on their espec traitline to be competitive.

[Rogue.8235]

23 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

All of them. Look at some of the new specs and the mixup of mechanics that are borrowed from other professions. Why is that? Because there is only so much you can do with those limitations until you run out of ideas for mechanics and start to borrow.

Looked at the specializations and didn't see a single profession lose its identity.

Professions use skill categories in their own style.  Engineer elixirs are not the same as necromancer elixirs.   Yes both are elixirs, however both bring their own flavor to it.

Daredevil physical skills are done the thief's way, while warrior physical skills are done the warrior's way.

Nope, no profession losing its identity.  How are you defining a professions identity?  I'm using the definitions found here.  And no elite specialization has contradicted those profession overviews.

How are you seeing professions losing their identity?