What is this a test or a preview?

[Esorono.1039]

I am greatly disappointed, I came into this expecting to test the profession test, and there was some absolutely GLARING holes missing. I mean, seriously? So I tried to plug up some of the holes in my testing by buying the runes and food and shoving them into my bank and found out that doesn't work. So I tried mailing them to myself, didn't work, got someone to mail some to me and it didn't work. There is no way to get actual testing runes, food, utility, and actual gems in my accessories, so this "Test" is utterly pointless. Maybe the E-specs could be broken, maybe not, guess I will never know, and I can't tell you guys because I can't test it properly. Why is there no possible way to give myself items to test with?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If you place items in the bank before any Betas, you will have access to them on Beta characters.

 

Next time....

[Obtena.7952]

I think you are misunderstanding the point here. It's not to experiment with builds. It's to test the functions of the espec. Specific gear is not necessary for that. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Batel.9206]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I think you are misunderstanding the point here. It's not to experiment with builds. It's to test the functions of the espec. Specific gear is not necessary for that. 

Yep, exactly. We're not trying to find the most efficient build, test DPS, and/or optimize the build for any and all content. We're merely testing the basic functionality: does it even work, or is it unplayable because of x bug and y glitch? What could be improved or changed about the skills, utilities, weapons, visual effects, animations, etc.? Nothing more.

[AgentMoore.9453]

Oof.

This was a recurring complaint during the last spec test; people felt that not having access to their usual stats and builds crippled their ability to truly try out the specs and get a feel for them comparable to their current gear/build. There were several threads about it, several of which seemed to favor the idea of temporary legendary gear for these betas that would allow for true stat freedom.

It's not really something I care about, but I can see why people were disappointed. It's a shame they kept things the same for this round.

[Xanadrine.4352]

How can you balance if you dont know the numbers? If people are not playing the test specs in full gear and runes ect, you wont have a decent balanced spec. That will lead to over nerfing after the xpack is released, and that will tick a lot of players off on both sides, as to why wasnt these things found during the beta?

[ShadowCatz.8437]

6 hours ago, Esorono.1039 said:

I am greatly disappointed, I came into this expecting to test the profession test, and there was some absolutely GLARING holes missing. I mean, seriously? So I tried to plug up some of the holes in my testing by buying the runes and food and shoving them into my bank and found out that doesn't work. So I tried mailing them to myself, didn't work, got someone to mail some to me and it didn't work. There is no way to get actual testing runes, food, utility, and actual gems in my accessories, so this "Test" is utterly pointless. Maybe the E-specs could be broken, maybe not, guess I will never know, and I can't tell you guys because I can't test it properly. Why is there no possible way to give myself items to test with?

It depends on player and how they want to use this time to learn about the new elite skills and traits. Don't forget ANet added into this soup DX11 and World Structuring for WvW, so it is a lot to take in and check out during this time window for beta testing.

For my own part I get the chance to test out Warrior class and maybe some other profession I have never played before, so it is up to what players want to do with this time while we have this going on.

Even so bugs and such things that might look good on paper might not be as good when used in real game world with NPCs, zergs and in different environment where there can be more problems with conditions, CCs etc that might not be countered fast enough when one set up a character with those skills and traits.

Maybe I will buy one or two character slots in the  future to add more professions just because there where an opportunity to try out professions I never played before and that way you could call it a preview?

The real test will always be when everybody that owns EoD get access to all those new features as that is when servers need to be up to handle this influx of players that return combined with all new players that are completely new to this game, it is only then we will see how things turns out.

[ArchonWing.9480]

When you make a beta character, it comes with several cases in its inventory that contain stat selectable exotics. Now it could been ascended but that should be good enough for testing.

Also, you can spend laurels/living world currency/guild commenations etc to get ascended trinkets as you wish since whatever you spend on beta characters doesn't matter.

[Esorono.1039]

Looking back, I feel I should have clarified as I am on the GW2 forums where everyone will just respond with a confused emote if any post is over 2 sentences, and how so many of the comments are so far off the base that it landed in another country. But it's fine, I did the math and got all the information needed, The Vindicator is at a completely perfect state, and has absolutely no exploitable mechanics at all with certain a food, gear set, and runes. Have fun making sure the buttons work everyone!

[Vayne.8563]

9 minutes ago, Esorono.1039 said:

Looking back, I feel I should have clarified as I am on the GW2 forums where everyone will just respond with a confused emote if any post is over 2 sentences, and how so many of the comments are so far off the base that it landed in another country. But it's fine, I did the math and got all the information needed, The Vindicator is at a completely perfect state, and has absolutely no exploitable mechanics at all with certain a food, gear set, and runes. Have fun making sure the buttons work everyone!

People use confused as a sort of downvote here. They aren't confused by your statement. They're confused by your attitude. This post backs that up.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

8 hours ago, Esorono.1039 said:

Looking back, I feel I should have clarified as I am on the GW2 forums where everyone will just respond with a confused emote if any post is over 2 sentences, and how so many of the comments are so far off the base that it landed in another country. But it's fine, I did the math and got all the information needed, The Vindicator is at a completely perfect state, and has absolutely no exploitable mechanics at all with certain a food, gear set, and runes. Have fun making sure the buttons work everyone!

Beta testing the way ANet have used is have always have several different purposes and when a character are created as a beta it means the state your account where will be copied to that character and therefore you can't move or use items like you can on your normal non-beta characters. That is why you will find containers (chests items) that contain armour and weapon and in another all consumables that are allowed in testing that character.

I suppose you are rather new to game or at least this forum when you have around 75 posts, so you have probably not been here when HoT where in beta stage. Try to avoid to read in too much of those emoji like Confused and keep your feelings in check instead so you can get a more rational discussion or even help from forum members.

At that time we had Revenant which where both a new addition to characters we could pick from and a new group of Elites. Add to that the new world (map) that had HoT maps added. In that test the server where created as total copy for everything on server for that week, so everything you did would be reset/erased even on your non-elite characters. Here we can still play on those characters that don't have beta in the upper centre of screen when we log in to those characters.

As I already pointed out GW2 Beta is i combo of Preview (as far as I know we don't have to deal with Non Disclosure Agreement which is rather common for MMO), so those who wants to publish and preset new features are free to do so on (with reservation that it is still in testing stage and can be changed in the final stage of public release) and bug chasing/stability testing of new features like DX11 for how video cards can handle this when it is been enabled in settings (Option>Graphics).

In short Beta testing will always have several goals and those doesn't include to make theory crafting builds which seem to be your own goal during this beta.

Add to that this game core and highest level gear where exotic level 80 items from the very beginning and that is what you get right out of the box when you enter a Beta character.

Both Ascended and Legendary armour and weapons came later so those items is not the core feature of this game from that time and it is what every player is supposed to deal with when they fight bosses or other player. It is the base for how this game have been designed to keep things in check.

[edit: To clarify when you play this game you will get exotic gear and weapon form just playing in this game and NOT ascended or legendary (there are some achievement that rewards ascended and there are some gear you will get that are ascended, but that is not the most common gear found just by playing). To get Ascended items (with exception for trinkets and back packs which you can buy with Laurels that you acquire over time - with expacks it is now possible to buy those with map currencies)

//end of edit]

Edited September 22, 2021 by ShadowCatz.8437

[FrizzFreston.5290]

10 hours ago, Esorono.1039 said:

Looking back, I feel I should have clarified as I am on the GW2 forums where everyone will just respond with a confused emote if any post is over 2 sentences, and how so many of the comments are so far off the base that it landed in another country. But it's fine, I did the math and got all the information needed, The Vindicator is at a completely perfect state, and has absolutely no exploitable mechanics at all with certain a food, gear set, and runes. Have fun making sure the buttons work everyone!

Im glad you're so sure. You just have to test it on a range of different PCs, with different drivers, with different connections and god whatever else. 😄

[Malus.2184]

On 9/21/2021 at 7:11 PM, Esorono.1039 said:

I am greatly disappointed, I came into this expecting to test the profession test, and there was some absolutely GLARING holes missing.

That's what testing is. Sometimes you get handed stuff for testing that someone else thinks is a good idea and is instead woefully lacking and needs to go back on the drawing board. Especially early testing is all about finding the holes. You only get a relatively finished product late in the process. By reading the feedback thread the devs can see the holes. And glaring? To us, to them they're unable to see them due to their bias as the concept of the Bladesworn is rock-solid. It's the execution that's lacking severely. I would say that the design team of the classes in GW2 consists of no more than 50 people, and that's putting the number high, with about ten of them in executive positions that take decisions on what the remaining people are to design as to avoid clogging up the process with too many people.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Malus.2184

[Esorono.1039]

10 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

People use confused as a sort of downvote here. They aren't confused by your statement. They're confused by your attitude. This post backs that up.

Oh, that is good, I was worried that people had a hard time understanding what I was talking about. As long as A-Net understands then I don't really care what people think.

 

2 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

Beta testing the way ANet have used is have always have several different purposes and when a character are created as a beta it means the state your account where will be copied to that character and therefore you can't move or use items like you can on your normal non-beta characters. That is why you will find containers (chests items) that contain armour and weapon and in another all consumables that are allowed in testing that character.

I suppose you are rather new to game or at least this forum when you have around 75 posts, so you have probably not been here when HoT where in beta stage. Try to avoid to read in too much of those emoji like Confused and keep your feelings in check instead so you can get a more rational discussion or even help from forum members.

At that time we had Revenant which where both a new addition to characters we could pick from and a new group of Elites. Add to that the new world (map) that had HoT maps added. In that test the server where created as total copy for everything on server for that week, so everything you did would be reset/erased even on your non-elite characters. Here we can still play on those characters that don't have beta in the upper centre of screen when we log in to those characters.

As I already pointed out GW2 Beta is i combo of Preview (as far as I know we don't have to deal with Non Disclosure Agreement which is rather common for MMO), so those who wants to publish and preset new features are free to do so on (with reservation that it is still in testing stage and can be changed in the final stage of public release) and bug chasing/stability testing of new features like DX11 for how video cards can handle this when it is been enabled in settings (Option>Graphics).

In short Beta testing will always have several goals and those doesn't include to make theory crafting builds which seem to be your own goal during this beta.

Add to that this game core and highest level gear where exotic level 80 items from the very beginning and that is what you get right out of the box when you enter a Beta character.

Both Ascended and Legendary armour and weapons came later so those items is not the core feature of this game from that time and it is what every player is supposed to deal with when they fight bosses or other player. It is the base for how this game have been designed to keep things in check.

[edit: To clarify when you play this game you will get exotic gear and weapon form just playing in this game and NOT ascended or legendary (there are some achievement that rewards ascended and there are some gear you will get that are ascended, but that is not the most common gear found just by playing). To get Ascended items (with exception for trinkets and back packs which you can buy with Laurels that you acquire over time - with expacks it is now possible to buy those with map currencies)

//end of edit]

More of a lurker, I don't post often because no one can read, or from what I have learned from reading this thread, any foresight. Don't you think that maybe, just maybe it is best to know about something that can break the game months before it is released in an environment that can affect the rest of the game, rather than just as it is released into the game and the forums are flooded by unending complaints? Skill balancing is a pain, especially in an MMORPG, to put it in perspective of just how much of a pain it is, when designing a TTRPG it took our group about 1 1/2 months to implement 12 upgrade stones which are about as influential as the upgrade slot on accessories. And this has far more moving parts to take into consideration, and when I say far more, I don't think I can truly convey how much more, like I wouldn't be surprised if these E-Specs were in development during PoF's. I shouldn't have to spend two or so hours to grind up 30 gold on a non-beta character to test things indirectly for something released for testing to find things like these. I don't care about Bobby the Gunblade's dps as that has likely been calculated to death and Bobby is likely doing a good Yamcha impression on the ground. I care about actual things, like the infinite mesmer clone glitch, or finding things like endless loop builds.

 

9 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

That's what testing is. Sometimes you get handed stuff for testing that someone else thinks is a good idea and is instead woefully lacking and needs to go back on the drawing board. Especially early testing is all about finding the holes. You only get a relatively finished product late in the process. By reading the feedback thread the devs can see the holes. And glaring? To us, to them they're unable to see them due to their bias as the concept of the Bladesworn is rock-solid. It's the execution that's lacking severely. I would say that the design team of the classes in GW2 consists of no more than 50 people, and that's putting the number high, with about ten of them in executive positions that take decisions on what the remaining people are to design as to avoid clogging up the process with too many people.

I want you to go back and read more than one sentence of the post. Also, ShadowCatz, this is why I do not often post here. Well, that and the rest of the comments that completely missed the point. But anyways, thanks for accidently agreeing with me, Malus, even though you didn't actually read the post.

[Randulf.7614]

Its mostly a preview, not a full test. Usually the in depth balancing will come after launch when the live game can put the classes through a more accurate and vigorous testing, across all game modes for a much longer time frame. There’s only limited data they can capture from a short beta like this and the best to expect is that the data is roughly where they expect it to be.

For now, this is likely more designed for us to have a mess around whilst we wait for the final product.

I would suggest though if you do find any glaring issues, to report them in the prof subforum in case there is something genuinely problematic their internal tests and metrics may miss

[Malus.2184]

12 hours ago, Esorono.1039 said:

I want you to go back and read more than one sentence of the post. Also, ShadowCatz, this is why I do not often post here. Well, that and the rest of the comments that completely missed the point. But anyways, thanks for accidently agreeing with me, Malus, even though you didn't actually read the post.

I fail to see how that's any different from what I said? As long as none of the other classes get those things either it's even ground for testing for everyone. Given all the things that's missing this is a test of the baseline, which is where every test shouldstart. The baseline needs to work before bells and whistles can be added to it. This is a proof of concept test, and in this case, the concept is solid and the execution is significantly less so. Once it got into the world the baseline was found to be woefully lacking. Adding all the things you asked for would just corrupt the data,

As far as I see it the only thing lacking is AR as the lack of it prevents people from doing Fractal testing of any kind beyond t1. Masteries and pots only take you so far.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Malus.2184

[Esorono.1039]

8 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

I fail to see how that's any different from what I said? As long as none of the other classes get those things either it's even ground for testing for everyone. Given all the things that's missing this is a test of the baseline, which is where every test shouldstart. The baseline needs to work before bells and whistles can be added to it. This is a proof of concept test, and in this case, the concept is solid and the execution is significantly less so. Once it got into the world the baseline was foujnd to be woefully lacking. Adding all the things you asked for would just corrupt the data,

 

As far as I see it the only thing lacking is AR as the lack of it prevents people from doing Fractal testing of any kind beyond t1. Masteries and pots only take you so far.

You are scratching the surface, if that. And the proof of concept has likely been done at least a year back if not more, and how exactly is this corrupting data? When you do a test, you want to figure out as much data as possible on what can break a system. It's not very hard to accidently add an infinite engine into a game as complex as this one. Also I'd say Fractals can still be done higher than at least T1, I can at least solo the first boss in T2 Fractals without AR very easily once I killed the rabbit. And I'd test higher, but it is getting late, and I need to sleep.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

3 hours ago, Esorono.1039 said:

You are scratching the surface, if that. And the proof of concept has likely been done at least a year back if not more, and how exactly is this corrupting data? When you do a test, you want to figure out as much data as possible on what can break a system. It's not very hard to accidently add an infinite engine into a game as complex as this one. Also I'd say Fractals can still be done higher than at least T1, I can at least solo the first boss in T2 Fractals without AR very easily once I killed the rabbit. And I'd test higher, but it is getting late, and I need to sleep.

To be honest, I'm wondering why you expect alpha level testing on a beta. At least, what you describe is done before most betas, at least to my expectations. 

 

You seem to know what its about, but I can't  help but feel you didn't read the sign on the door you came in on.

[Asum.4960]

Frankly, the Beta Accounts should just come with a fully stocked Legendary Armory so people can test around. 

Seems so much simpler and better than the account copies and boxes of piles of Exotics.

[b k.1648]

Can't say I blame them for just giving some basic options; the people who don't need access to all their crutches to try out a class probably give more well-rounded feedback.

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, Esorono.1039 said:

Oh, that is good, I was worried that people had a hard time understanding what I was talking about. As long as A-Net understands then I don't really care what people think.

Pretty sure Anet doesn't get you either because it's clear the Beta test isn't for buildcrafting. It's for testing functionality of the spec. Literally, to see if things are working or not.  

let's take a step back ... you asked if it's a test or a preview. It's a test. The question is weird ...it's clearly advertised by Anet as a Beta test. What's the confusion?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Malus.2184]

11 hours ago, Esorono.1039 said:

You are scratching the surface, if that. And the proof of concept has likely been done at least a year back if not more, and how exactly is this corrupting data? When you do a test, you want to figure out as much data as possible on what can break a system. It's not very hard to accidently add an infinite engine into a game as complex as this one. Also I'd say Fractals can still be done higher than at least T1, I can at least solo the first boss in T2 Fractals without AR very easily once I killed the rabbit. And I'd test higher, but it is getting late, and I need to sleep.

The proof of concept has only been made to an extremely limited amount of people and as such can be affected by their bias. People educated in programming and visual production often have no background at all in the scientific process. You're the exact same, you think that your anecdotal experience is valid proof of that AR is unneeded. So you can solo the first few Fractals on t2. Can you do the same on t3 or 4?

Giving players access to sigils and other buffs would corrupt the data as the data you would get would be the performance with sigils and other buffs instead of the "raw" data. And people would use those buffs if they had access to them as it's a lot easier than the alternatie and humans will always do whatever is easiest unless they reflect on their actions and have a specific desire.

You thinking otherwise is an example of Dunning Kruger based on what you'd imagine that you would do. The first post is evidence of the opposite as you only feel that you can test if you have those buffs.