The new elite specs are extremely underwhelming and uninspired

[Rogue.8235]

8 hours ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

Instead of what cool he described we get what? Hammer can do things and drop stuffs and its all what? No realization of higher fantasy - not connecting to great ideas just being it can do stuff and thats it. And that's a common theme among most of the released.

This is literally meaningless. 

There is nothing here being said.  I've been trying to decipher what you're arguing for, and you actually aren't arguing for anything.  You state that the elite specializations are subpar.  But when explaining why, we get the statements like the above quoted paragraph.  You say nothing.  Yes you type words, but these statements have no substantive meaning.

The only thing I can say to you is:

It sucks that you don't like the new elite specializations.  Sorry that you don't like it.

 

 

[QueenKeriti.5176]

7 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Maybe better to ask which especs have no meta builds using their unlocked weapon?

(not being sarcastic) I agree. I'm not familiar enough with all the e-specs to give a good answer. :< There's probably at least one good meta build for each e-spec with their unlocked weapons. I'm really curious to see the meta builds that comes out of the new e-specs when they're better finalized, outside of the "Harbaebae" meta build. 🙂

I'm just really waiting for the new ranger e-spec because that's the class I main in GW2 (soulbeast is lyfe). I never tried hammer ranger in GW1, but I still want to see how they translate it in GW2.

 

I do want new animations for the classes. Anetpls.

[Klowdy.3126]

23 hours ago, CheesecakeChiari.7154 said:

(Sorry if I'm not understanding and missing something like sarcasm)

 

Soulbeast dagger is part of the meta builds for I think both power and condi in PvE

Druid staff is part of the meta for heal builds in PvE

Scourge torch is meta for some builds

Tempest warhorn is meta for several builds

Weaver sword is meta for several builds

 

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head because those are the elites I've played.

Reaper, renegade, herald, berserker, firebrand, holosmith, scrapper, deadeye, and daredevil as far as I know. Those are the ones I've played/researched. 

[Crackmonster.2790]

3 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

This is literally meaningless. 

There is nothing here being said.  I've been trying to decipher what you're arguing for, and you actually aren't arguing for anything.  You state that the elite specializations are subpar.  But when explaining why, we get the statements like the above quoted paragraph.  You say nothing.  Yes you type words, but these statements have no substantive meaning.

The only thing I can say to you is:

It sucks that you don't like the new elite specializations.  Sorry that you don't like it.

 

 

You are now the third or fourth person that confuse this.

My argument is not "i don't like these styles" - one of the parts of my argument that i have stated in other words multiple times over, is that they fail to actualize a high level of class fantasy.  Rather than being distinct giving you a unique powerful feeling, they are vague and bland in their expression. This is not the same as saying: "i don't like their style". It's an observation of a design problem.

Like the guy earlier who said like what was it "Nothing that happens can ever compare to what I can imagine" is missing the picture. I don't have any expectation except that whatever comes will be as good as the other ones. It is merely an observation that i feel they don't deliver on the thematic part and the weapon choices where lackluster(that one we can call a personal preference) - but in the end i'm open to that even if its different weapons than i had hoped for it's fine as long as it ends up being something cool and interesting.

The gunblade is possibly the most unique concept here. But as it looks now, oh my will it cause pain down the road for the player. Look they cant balance that as they are trying.  450k hits, and they even said themselves they naturally can't allow themselves this in competitive modes. kitten right they can't. And now they are gonna vastly split the build into something different for the modes, and they are gonna cling to their original idea and players will cry and cry over getting oneshot over the next couple of years and nerfs and nerfs and nerfs will hit it until the original players are all salty about getting nerfed into the ground, meanwhile the stand still to use it mechanics makes it unviable at higher competitive levels so its just gonna end up nerfed vs braindeads and unviable mechanically + nerfed to braindeads at high levels and the tears will flow coz of what people wanted, they wanted to keep oneshots that they got hooked on in the beginning.

But yea in design it is unique that one, unless they really give it some thought though, its a trap to play it and fall it love with.

  

11 hours ago, Ferret.3087 said:

 

So you are saying these specs don't follow your usual idea of fantasy classes but they are generic at the same time? That makes no sense. I would say a lot of these classes are the complete opposite of generic which is typical of Arena Net, they don't like to typically create traditional roles/classes.

Yea, i see what you are saying. The way i use generic/bland here is that the skills don't express a unique style strongly enough and it feels not distinquished like i didn't see any of the skills and go WOW that is COOL i want that! Maybe besides the hundred thousands hit on gunblade :D. It's more like oh now it can swing around or maybe it can make a little pool, and this little pool is gonna be there and tick for 3 seconds and yaaaaawwwnnn...

Edited September 27, 2021 by Crackmonster.2790

[otto.5684]

I do not agree. Though in some situations Anet seems to start building around trade-offs before even knowing how something will perform.

[Vayne.8563]

12 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Holosmith sword

Daredevil staff

Scrapper hammer

Firebrand axe

Mirage axe

Maybe better to ask which especs have no meta builds using their unlocked weapon? Or maybe I’m missing the sarcasm too?

You've named five out of 18 elite specs though.  I don't really use the new weapon with most of my characters. I play berserker warrior but use dual axe. I play longbow/greatsword on my ranger.   I play greatsword/sword/focus on my mesmer. The idea that you need to use the new weapon for every build or even most is just not the case.  I think that was the point.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

24 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You've named five out of 18 elite specs though.  I don't really use the new weapon with most of my characters. I play berserker warrior but use dual axe. I play longbow/greatsword on my ranger.   I play greatsword/sword/focus on my mesmer. The idea that you need to use the new weapon for every build or even most is just not the case.  I think that was the point.

Yes, but I think every elite spec uses its unlocked weapon in at least one meta build, and meta builds can be necessary if not nearly mandatory in certain high level content (lb/gs ranger isn't going to fly at all in T4 fractals and raids, but is perfectly fine for open world and other stuff that's not "hardcore" content). I listed in my original post the classes I've played that use/require their unlocked weapon for meta builds for endgame content.

 

Stuff like Condi Bannerslave berserker is meta in raids and fractals uses their torch unlock (power version runs axe/axe).

 

On my mesmer, I just usually run greatsword because I only play her in open world stuff and being able to kite around while laughing maniacally is nice. 🙂 

 

[Vayne.8563]

Just now, CheesecakeChiari.7154 said:

Yes, but I think every elite spec uses its unlocked weapon in at least one meta build, and meta builds can be necessary if not nearly mandatory in certain high level content (lb/gs ranger isn't going to fly at all in T4 fractals and raids, but is perfectly fine for open world and other stuff that's not "hardcore" content). I listed in my original post the classes I've played that use/require their unlocked weapon for meta builds for endgame content.

 

Stuff like Condi Bannerslave berserker is meta in raids and fractals uses their torch unlock (power version runs axe/axe).

 

On my mesmer, I just usually run greatsword because I only play her in open world stuff and being able to kite around while laughing maniacally is nice. 🙂 

 

Doesn't really change my point of view though. I'm not sure doesn't use the new weapon is really a valid complaint, because many meta builds also don't use the unique elite spec weapon.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Doesn't really change my point of view though. I'm not sure doesn't use the new weapon is really a valid complaint, because many meta builds also don't use the unique elite spec weapon.

You are correct that that is, indeed, not a really valid complaint. 🙂 We were just going over some where the elite spec does use their new weapon, especially for endgame meta builds.

 

For non-elite spec weapon unlock meta builds: Condi shortbow soulbeast is AWESOME, and I totally recommend trying it.

[Vayne.8563]

1 minute ago, CheesecakeChiari.7154 said:

You are correct that that is, indeed, not a really valid complaint. 🙂 We were just going over some where the elite spec does use their new weapon, especially for endgame meta builds.

 

For non-elite spec weapon unlock meta builds: Condi shortbow soulbeast is AWESOME, and I totally recommend trying it.

Already a big fan of that particular combination.  I have two rangers that use condi, though my alternate weapon set is dagger/torch.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

2 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Already a big fan of that particular combination.  I have two rangers that use condi, though my alternate weapon set is dagger/torch.

Yup! Shortbow with dagger/torch is the build. I love it so much.

[Zentao.6314]

Well they still have time, we'll see how they react to the massive negativity from the community.

[Poseidon.1839]

I don't think they are uninspired, i think the main problem is one that this is only a beta it's not the finished product there might always be changes, tweeks and reworks.. also the elite specs meant to give a different play style some might like it some might not, i for one really was and still an disappointed with the ele spec, but that's just me, i remember in pof i really hated mirage because they didn't have dodge anymore they would just stand there, but now it's one of my most favorite spec.. 

 

My point is let's wait and see the final product...

 

Anyone excited for WvW??

[Gibson.4036]

6 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You've named five out of 18 elite specs though.  I don't really use the new weapon with most of my characters. I play berserker warrior but use dual axe. I play longbow/greatsword on my ranger.   I play greatsword/sword/focus on my mesmer. The idea that you need to use the new weapon for every build or even most is just not the case.  I think that was the point.

That’s because more were named earlier.

Sometimes it’s hard in these threads to follow the context of what one is responding to. We were responding to a question “how many use their unlocked weapon”. You’ll see in the responses a few of us, at least, wondered at the motive of the question.

So listing them had nothing to do with arguing for or against you.

[InfiniteRetro.9865]

Guild Wars 2 is such a power fantasy and alot of the new elite specs don't make me feel powerful. I dont get excited over little 'boons and buff's i want to feel like im kicking the bad guys like an 80s action hero.

 

Harbinger: i feel like a chemist. potions are BORING. i get the boon side of it but have that vial change our first 5 abilities based on the one we used and transform us into some undead being for a brief time (like the Lich Form) OR Make the harbinger a Ritualist. he can already raise the dead, why not give the ability to raise spirits. fits in with the theme of Cantha and Rits being one of the original professions. And for quaggans sake...give us at the very LEAST dual wielding pistols and make us shoot undead or spirits as ammo.

 

Bladesworn: i love the idea, but it feels clunky. make the flow build up regardless and then only use F1 to go into Dragon Trigger. Or make the utilities act like Engineer packs and each one changes our weapon skills. aka High Stance gun sabre, Medium Stance gun sabre etc

 

Catalyst: this is a joke. the jade spheres should follow us around with the combo field. as you fight you become unstable and have to force the jade sphere to erupt into a massive AOE attack. If you dont its a small window before you get dealt serious health damage (think exhaustion mechanic kinda like the Ele in GW1) the utilities are very boring and you can't take them all out because if you do you are FORCED to play ele to constantly switch elements. Im fairly monogamous when i play ele, most of the time i stick to an element for a session.

 

Vindicator, Virtuoso and Willbender all felt more polished and complete, and felt like both weapon skills and utilities were alot of fun.

 

Love this game, but for the first time, and i hope it is beta, but these felt like after thoughts. You have to want to encourage people to get off their main elite specs, and so far, for me at least only 3 of the 6 are tempting me.

[Mesket.5728]

On 9/25/2021 at 5:31 PM, Veka.8710 said:

War is actually extremely fun, I never liked any of the other Warrior elite spec but this one actually got me to enjoy it.

yeah its a pattern. People who don't like warrior suddenly like this spec, while people who main warrior for 9 years hates it.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

They aren't bad at all. The thing is they made them intentionally underpowered, which skews peoples first impressions. 

 

 

[Mesket.5728]

10 hours ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

The gunblade is possibly the most unique concept here. But as it looks now, oh my will it cause pain down the road for the player. Look they cant balance that as they are trying.  450k hits, and they even said themselves they naturally can't allow themselves this in competitive modes. kitten right they can't. And now they are gonna vastly split the build into something different for the modes, and they are gonna cling to their original idea and players will cry and cry over getting oneshot over the next couple of years and nerfs and nerfs and nerfs will hit it until the original players are all salty about getting nerfed into the ground, meanwhile the stand still to use it mechanics makes it unviable at higher competitive levels so its just gonna end up nerfed vs braindeads and unviable mechanically + nerfed to braindeads at high levels and the tears will flow coz of what people wanted, they wanted to keep oneshots that they got hooked on in the beginning.

The gunblade sucks, like a lot... Conceptually it's as stupid as gluing a gun to a greatsword (its actually more stupid, because its technological but shoots "magical-bullets" lol). Mechanically is boring af, its a one trick pony. A pose that rivals naruto-running. Putting your sword away and standing still in the middle of the fight to pose is stupid, not as an insult but by definition of what stupid means. So basically 350k is the ONLY thing this espec has to offer and it is so broken.

The espec will never ever work in pvp since they have 2 options: You either one shot people on pvp or you don't. If you don't, why use it? take any normal burst and it is better. Want to be tactical and time and land a powerful attack? take hundred blades on GS, we've doing that for 9 years already. People will not use this class unless they can one shot people in duels, perhaps a few weebs will. For PVE it is also broken, people are doing over 100k dps on raids with over 90% damage on one move. How on earth do people believe this is OK? or even fun after a while... Also, congratulations ANEt on making 3 power dps banner slaves espec in a row! I think not even on purpose you could blow this one up too.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Mesket.5728

[Loules.8601]

50 minutes ago, Mesket.5728 said:

3 power dps banner slaves espec in a row

Berserker - condi specialization, and Spellbreaker - mostly form of support, not dps 😄

Edited September 27, 2021 by Loules.8601

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Mesket.5728 said:

yeah its a pattern. People who don't like warrior suddenly like this spec, while people who main warrior for 9 years hates it.

I wonder if that's the core of the design idea for several of them.

Why do people dislike playing Mesmer? Clone management, ramp up time while you get clones out, the frustration of losing clones if your targets are dying fast. Virtuoso seems to be aimed right at that.

Guardian - Heavy armored, low hp profession with low mobility? Is Willbender an attempt to give it the fluidity and escape of other low hp professions? If you haven't liked Guardian up to this point, then maybe this will be the ticket.

Necro has the reputation as the never die, even downed state is powerful, faceroll profession. So they create Harmbringer [sic] with the idea of a self-harming, live on the edge spec?

Vindicator seems to break this idea though. Instead of reinventing the profession legend swap mechanic, it just doubles down. Literally.

[jaif.3518]

I found both the bladesworn and vindicator fun this past week.  Both styles grew on me as I became accustomed to them.  I think there's some tuning opportunities there, but I felt what the devs were going for, and it seemed different and fun to me.

 

Catalyst...I didn't get it.  Someone posted a forum thread along the lines of "every elite ele is a piano spec", and I agree with that sentiment.  I would love the catalyst to be re-designed as a walking aura that grows in radius with damage & healing, and fades with disuse.  That would be interesting without needing yet another button to press.

Edited September 27, 2021 by jaif.3518
grammar hard

[Obtena.7952]

15 hours ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

 i have stated in other words multiple times over, is that they fail to actualize a high level of class fantasy.  Rather than being distinct giving you a unique powerful feeling, they are vague and bland in their expression.

Your claim is pretty vague and bland as well. The especs don't actualize a high level of class fantasy? I guess that's just a matter of opinion ... because I have YET to see many of the themes Anet has expressed in their especs as typical fantasy themes. I mean, show me a game where Necros throw vials and have pistols? That's about as ANTI-necro as it gets ... but still it makes sense in the narrative Anet has created. This isn't the only example of Anet's atypical approach to spec themes either.

Now, granted, there are some pretty vanilla ideas as well (like .. Druid .. that's somewhat typical) but I don't see that happening too often and I certainly don't see much of it happening in EoD so far. So basically, it's hard to see your complaint as valid when we have many examples of NOT vague and NOT bland expressed especs. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jack Swiftclaw.9076]

I've enjoyed each of the new elites.  It gives a new angle to play each class. 

 

I look at the way I play the game in general.  I don't go for the Meta builds.  I use what I want and play how I want.  I main ranger with a longbow, sw/warhorn why I find it fun.  I use a smoke scale.  I am a soul beast who merges and goes ninja on enemies with my sword and have birds attack them.  Is this meta? No. Do I enjoy it yes.  

 

Each of these elites give you a new way to play.  Is it forcing you to drop Reaper for Harbringer?  No.  Don't like catalyst ok don't play.  I know I am going to personal test the ranger spec extensively.  I also want to see how hammer works.  Will I use it maybe or I'll stick to how I play now.  

 

I'm sorry you seemed bummed but these betas have me excited to play warrior for the first time since launch.  

 

It's called a beta test for a reason.  To find bugs and fix issues 

[Rogue.8235]

20 hours ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

Yea, i see what you are saying. The way i use generic/bland here is that the skills don't express a unique style strongly enough and it feels not distinquished like i didn't see any of the skills and go WOW that is COOL i want that! Maybe besides the hundred thousands hit on gunblade :D. It's more like oh now it can swing around or maybe it can make a little pool, and this little pool is gonna be there and tick for 3 seconds and yaaaaawwwnnn...

 

Got it, you feel that the visuals missed the mark.  I think you also imply that the mechanics aren't fantastic (i.e. of fantasy) enough.  

 

For me, I feel the opposite, for the most part.  Virtuoso actually allows me to go House of Flying Daggers on everyone!

I enjoy a warrior using guns the warrior way.  By smacking people with it.

I don't know the visuals for harbinger, but the idea of harnessing the very corruption of Shiro is a great idea (to me).

Vindicator has so much flavor by channeling both the kurzick and luxon heroes.  I enjoy the massive amounts of tactical options inherent in the kit, which is a good way to translate the diametrically opposite heroes into game mechanics.  

I didn't get a chance to play with catalyst too much, but I enjoy the area control it has.  Thematically, it's a unique way of combining the elementalist profession with Canthan history.

I completely missed out on playing willbender, so I can't comment.

 

 

I get your points now.  I disagree, but our opinions are our own and that's okay.

 

[Brian.5324]

When Scrapper’s hammer feels more “elementalist” than the actual elementalist hammer, yeah, you know there’s a certain lack of inspiration.