[WvW] SERIOUS ISSUE - Untamed can't be a frontliner if you can't stow the pet or make it invulnerable.

[kappa.2036]

Anet keep saying "You can go frontline with this and bla bla bla" but HOW we can go frontline with a pet that dies in the first 2 seconds because it can't dodge anything? There is NO WAY pets can be useful in their current state in zerg fights, even with the Unleash form. I expected some skills or traits that could make the pet invulnerable for brief periods of time, or the ability to revive them, but nope.

 

People will be seriously disappointed when they will realized that this spec can't be used properly in blob fights.

 

MY SUGGESTIONS:

- The new healing skill should not reduce pet health by 50%. Instead, this skill should be like the "Defiant Stance" warrior healing skill, which absorb all the damage and heals you and your pet;

- The skill that cleanse all the conditions should cleanse the pet aswell;

- The new elite damage reduction should also affect the pet;

- Pet unleash skills (F1-F2-F3) should be ground targeted skills that lock the pet in that location until you activate another command OR simply allow us to stow the pet completely like the Mechanist robot.

[Infusion.7149]

How are you surprised though?

[covahlam.6391]

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but the solution really is as simple as giving pets invuln whenever they're within 600 units of 6+ allied players, with like a 10s duration and 10s refresh. Should've been done long ago.

[Khenzy.9348]

The solution is simple, I just can't fathom why they haven't implemented it yet:

-Reduce residual AoE damage pets recieve by like 80% or more, this effect is nullified or vastly reduced if the pet is directly targeted.

-Allow the Ranger player to kneel and ress their pet, the same way they can res most friendly NPCs and players. 

Bonus one: Completely remove animation locking on pet Autoattacks (only). This condition is applied only when the pet is targeting other players.

That's it.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Khenzy.9348

[Arheundel.6451]

30 minutes ago, kappa.2036 said:

Anet keep saying "You can go frontline with this and bla bla bla" but HOW we can go frontline with a pet that dies in the first 2 seconds because it can't dodge anything? There is NO WAY pets can be useful in their current state in zerg fights, even with the Unleash form. I expected some skills or traits that could make the pet invulnerable for brief periods of time, or the ability to revive them, but nope.

 

People will be seriously disappointed when they will realized that this spec can't be used properly in blob fights.

 

MY SUGGESTIONS:

- The new healing skill should not reduce pet health by 50%. Instead, this skill should be like the "Defiant Stance" warrior healing skill, which absorb all the damage and heals you and your pet;

- The skill that cleanse all the conditions should cleanse the pet aswell;

- The new elite damage reduction should also affect the pet;

- Pet unleash skills (F1-F2-F3) should be ground targeted skills that lock the pet in that location until you activate another command OR simply allow us to stow the pet completely like the Mechanist robot.

You can use bear for endure pain...jacaranda for heal and ranged aoe.....

[Gotejjeken.1267]

45 minutes ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

-Allow the Ranger player to kneel and ress their pet, the same way they can res most friendly NPCs and players. 

 

Fun fact, we used to be able to do this--forget when it was changed but here is old wiki revision:

 

Pet - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

 

But yeah, frontliner may be a bit of a misnomer on this--we do still have soulbeast for true blob fights.  This seems way more small / medium scale and then tactical / roamer to me.  

[kappa.2036]

47 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You can use bear for endure pain...jacaranda for heal and ranged aoe.....

You really think few seconds endure pain on a bear or some crappy non-istant heals are enough to make pets viable in a zerg fight? You will be disappointed very fast....

[anduriell.6280]

13 minutes ago, kappa.2036 said:

You really think few seconds endure pain on a bear or some crappy non-istant heals are enough to make pets viable in a zerg fight? You will be disappointed very fast....

Yep I don’t understand why would anybody  think bears will be magically good for WvW when it hasn’t be the case for the last 9 years…..

[Ehecatl.9172]

13 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Yep I don’t understand why would anybody  think bears will be magically good for WvW when it hasn’t be the case for the last 9 years…..

 

To be fair, bear has been useless for nine years because ALL it can do is endure. It has unimpressive damage output and its F2s tend to be underwhelming.

 

But with Unleashed it has access to more damage, a teleport, projectile hate, and AoE damage/poison application. Suddenly the tanky bear has more utility and the ability to survive a bit longer in AoE intensive environments might have more value than it did before.

 

Granted I doubt a few seconds of Invuln will be that big of a game changer, but the Unleashed skills are a pretty big equalizer among our pets that might make pets that used to see little to no use get a second glance.

[Xenash.1245]

I get it, but I'd like to see how things work in practice first personally since things might be different from what they look like on paper.

[Substance E.4852]

56 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Yep I don’t understand why would anybody  think bears will be magically good for WvW when it hasn’t be the case for the last 9 years…..

To their credit, bear is probably going to be the optimal pet (baring potential EoD pets) given it's hp but it doesn't get dodge iframes and can't weave around red rings which means it's going to eat a lot of AoE which will kill it very fast despite the large health pool and moderate armor

I can build and operate as a survivable melee train member with the wombo combo hammer, my pet cannot

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

If they make the pet nigh invulnerable to splash damage (-80% damage unless it is targeted), it makes them a bit OP in small scale, but if they do not then the pets are nigh useless in large scale. 

Or, they could limit the DPS able to be done to a pet per second. Just limit it to what a couple of people could do if they wanted to focus a pet and give the pet evade frames when the Ranger gets them.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Substance E.4852]

It could potentially be balanced out if the reduction worked like it does in pve where it's only effective while untargeted and it also gets the same 10% damage vulnerability we get while hulked out

It no longer evaporates in zerg fights but can still be easily burned down if focused in small scale fights

[nerva.7940]

First of all, Untamed is worthwhile taking into zerg fights just for the hammer's CC, boon rips, and massive aoe damage. If it holds up on Arc DPS, you can run them instead of dps guardians and zerker warriors for example. You have a cantrip that gives you almost permanent damage reduction and stab, and one that can catch a massive amount of players who don't have stab. So your job would be to pretty much live inside their backline and f them up. You can have a few of these just blink into a zerg's tail and wail on squishies. Or just disrupt the tail after the initial push, and single out backliners on their retreat. This is pretty much and obviously a "hulk smash" spec, akin to the oldschool hammer warrior that dominated zerg fights for years. 

Second, if you go double bear and don't collect all the red circles on the ground (like some of you think you should), OR just blink the pet out of the big push, you'll have two pets available to rip 3 boons from 5 people. 

I really dont think you guys understand the toolkit you're getting with this. If the damage coefficients are as good as they looked on the stream, you'll have a disruptive dps brawler that I believe will a part of any meta comp. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by nerva.7940

[Infusion.7149]

56 minutes ago, nerva.7940 said:

First of all, Untamed is worthwhile taking into zerg fights just for the hammer's CC, boon rips, and massive aoe damage. If it holds up on Arc DPS, you can run them instead of dps guardians and zerker warriors for example. You have a cantrip that gives you almost permanent damage reduction and stab, and one that can catch a massive amount of players who don't have stab. So your job would be to pretty much live inside their backline and f them up. You can have a few of these just blink into a zerg's tail and wail on squishies. Or just disrupt the tail after the initial push, and single out backliners on their retreat. This is pretty much and obviously a "hulk smash" spec, akin to the oldschool hammer warrior that dominated zerg fights for years. 

Second, if you go double bear and don't collect all the red circles on the ground (like some of you think you should), OR just blink the pet out of the big push, you'll have two pets available to rip 3 boons from 5 people. 

I really dont think you guys understand the toolkit you're getting with this. If the damage coefficients are as good as they looked on the stream, you'll have a disruptive dps brawler that I believe will a part of any meta comp. 

Do you not use scrappers or chronos?

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

1 hour ago, Substance E.4852 said:

It could potentially be balanced out if the reduction worked like it does in pve where it's only effective while untargeted and it also gets the same 10% damage vulnerability we get while hulked out

It no longer evaporates in zerg fights but can still be easily burned down if focused in small scale fights

Yeah, I was saying that, but I think that would make the pets a bit OP in small scale, don't you think? AoE basically does no damage to them unless targeted? Should someone not be able to lay down AoE and expect to kill a pet without focusing it?

[Draeyon.4392]

If the game allows it, maybe the pet takes 100% AoE damage, but it can only be hit by it in certain intervals. e.g 1 AoE hit every half second/second. So the more AoE that is down, the less overall damage it will mitigate.

 

Pets also need some sort of baseline condi cleanse. Something like 1 conditon removed every 5 seconds.

[InspectorCaracal.2970]

What if they just copied from Mechanist again and gave our pets a breakbar when unleashed?

[Zyreva.1078]

Aoe dmg reduction (or any other form of passive increase in tankyness) is problematic because of aoe caps. You don't want zergs to start running a billion pets for massive free dmg mitigation.

 

I'd like pets to become invulnerable and untargetable as long the ranger keeps them in passive mode (for all specs, not just untamed!). This way the ranger has direct control over the pets survivability, it does not screw with aoe caps or body blocks stuff  while being invulnerable and as soon the pet does something, there is the same counterplay as there is now, including killing the pets if the ranger does not properly micromanage them.

[Gorem.8104]

11 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

The solution is simple, I just can't fathom why they haven't implemented it yet:

-Reduce residual AoE damage pets recieve by like 80% or more, this effect is nullified or vastly reduced if the pet is directly targeted.

-Allow the Ranger player to kneel and ress their pet, the same way they can res most friendly NPCs and players. 

Bonus one: Completely remove animation locking on pet Autoattacks (only). This condition is applied only when the pet is targeting other players.

That's it.

 

tbh, it should have been a thing in game since game launch that pets are nearly immune to aoe damage/ground target damage from all sources. ST them is fine, but dying to random aoe is something that is just dumb for pet AI. 

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

39 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

tbh, it should have been a thing in game since game launch that pets are nearly immune to aoe damage/ground target damage from all sources. ST them is fine, but dying to random aoe is something that is just dumb for pet AI. 

But, at the same time, how can you not give decent damage to someone who is targeting the Ranger, but getting splash damage on the pet? I don't think you should have to specifically target a pet to deal damage to it.

[anduriell.6280]

Just now, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

But, at the same time, how can you not give decent damage to someone who is targeting the Ranger, but getting splash damage on the pet? I don't think you should have to specifically target a pet to deal damage to it.

And i do agree with you, the invulnerablity point like in PvE is a very bad solution. It will be extremely annoying in WvW and PvP (specially in PvP) and totally unfair for enemy players. 

 

I am not in the same train as those who are asking for making the pet invulnerable, i just ask for better balancing (in wvw the pets need pve stats at least) and to provide the ranger some tools so the player can keep the pet alive. At least the new elite should be able to cleanse conditions from the pet more consistenly.

Untamed is pretty bad and it is pointing out to be the worse elite of all. We are realizing that (at least some in the forum) and we haven't even play with it yet. I am scared to see how they butchered the elite in competitive modes. 

[Gorem.8104]

14 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

But, at the same time, how can you not give decent damage to someone who is targeting the Ranger, but getting splash damage on the pet? I don't think you should have to specifically target a pet to deal damage to it.

 

Why though? Then again I'm mostly quoting other games where its a thing, like it was in Rift and honestly worked well. Guess GW2 is just different that we expect to kill the pet who most likely is nowhere near the Ranger, I mean how often is your pet next to you in splash range? 

This spec relies on the pet, yet if the pets dead, the specs dead. Its the only spec in game that might allow you and your pet to be near each other on the same target, but if they still die instantly regardless, it defeats the entire point of the spec. 

At this rate, SB makes for a better pet spec, cause at least we can revive the pet there by merging and un-merging.

 

It should take some damage, sure, but it should be able to tank it unless its directly targeted. Make the E-spec make people want to target the pet over the Ranger. Make the Ranger pet actually worth the target, as it can't be rezzed as fast as a SB, but still be a priority target, instead of just allowing people to target the Ranger anyway and kill the pet at the same time.  

[Renny.6571]

4 hours ago, Inventrix.3158 said:

What if they just copied from Mechanist again and gave our pets a breakbar when unleashed?

The bar would be broken instantly and then just insta killed before the 5sec stun is over. 

[Pedro Sequeira.3198]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

And i do agree with you, the invulnerablity point like in PvE is a very bad solution. It will be extremely annoying in WvW and PvP (specially in PvP) and totally unfair for enemy players. 

 

I am not in the same train as those who are asking for making the pet invulnerable, i just ask for better balancing (in wvw the pets need pve stats at least) and to provide the ranger some tools so the player can keep the pet alive. At least the new elite should be able to cleanse conditions from the pet more consistenly.

Untamed is pretty bad and it is pointing out to be the worse elite of all. We are realizing that (at least some in the forum) and we haven't even play with it yet. I am scared to see how they butchered the elite in competitive modes. 

What if the elite utility also applies to the pet and revives it if dead? That way you could make it sturdier only during some windows of time.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Pedro Sequeira.3198