Specter - Targeting specific allies is an accessibility issue.

[Will.9785]

I've been playing GW2 for 9 years as a thief main.  I can't use a mouse/keyboard.  I use an alternate input device that maps to keyboard keys and I'm limited in what I can do.  I have to play with action camera.  I can't click on things very easily, so proximity and aiming in the general direction of targets is everything to me.

 

Given the current implementation, the specter mechanic of tethering to either an ally or an enemy means that I won't be able to play the spec.  As I said before, I can only aim in the general direction, and I can't click on things very easily while in combat, so if my ally is standing on top of an enemy I won't be able to prioritize one over the other.  I don't have a problem playing other supports because no other supports work like this.  I can aim my abilities in the general direction and they will both damage/stun enemies and benefit allies... but not specter.  So as I said, 9 years as a thief main and we finally get a support spec and I can't play it.

 

Did the people who designed this spec ever even consider people like me?  I have to ask the question.  Why not just tether to enemies and have anyone who stands in the beam receive the support?  Why do we have to click?

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Not sure of the full scope of your limitations but just as an FYI there are keybinds for allied targeting. Maybe you could bind them to your mouse buttons?

[Will.9785]

3 minutes ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

Not sure of the full scope of your limitations but just as an FYI there are keybinds for allied targeting. Maybe you could bind them to your mouse buttons?

 

Appreciate the reply.  I don't use a mouse and I'm limited on keybinds.  Even if I could find room to add allied targeting... I will still have the precision issue (i.e. clicking on the right enemy or ally).  It's part of the reason why I disliked playing Deadeye, because rifle is single target and when enemies are even slightly close together I can't focus the one I want to.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Afaik you coudl key bind an ally tab targeting. So you target through all your allies. It will be a bit tedious in larger groups but maybe that helps.

[AikijinX.6258]

This is the internet and anyone can have anything, be anybody, etc as long as they type it out.
 

Although I believe in my initial statement, my heart does go out to you if this limitation is indeed true. (No I won’t ask you for proof either because what kind of person does this). I agree that with this new Ally targeting mechanic they should’ve been more conscious and aware of individuals with limitations as you described. Because contrary’ to peoples belief’s, even the handicapped like to game and have fun.  

I hope Anet responds to this thread because it’s very important they hear from people like you.

You’re a fellow Thief of 9 years, you’re more than qualified to have an opinion. 😊

Edited October 23, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[nopoet.2960]

I want Anet to look into this for the OP (and not just for the OP).  We've never ever had ally targeted skills and the game has evolved around that fact.  If they can crack a clever solution we would all benefit.

[saerni.2584]

I looked into key binds yesterday after the stream. Right now I'm looking for flexibility between targeting enemies and targeting allies. So I have a "Previous Enemy" and "Previous Ally"  bind set up now. But I'm planning on some degree of manual targeting for setting up with who I'm supporting.
 

For you, it may be easier to have a cycling Ally target bound. But that still won't be precise. So I see why you raise the issue of needing to click with a mouse. 

 

I assume you are using some kind of auto-target to help you with enemies you need to target with the target dependent skills. I think the issue with that is that auto-target goes for enemies and not allies. 
 

Perhaps the solution is for Anet to add an auto-target for allies option (could not be selected same time as auto-target for enemies) and then add a key bind that lets you toggle them (similar to the lock auto-target). 

[Downstate.4697]

Maybe a toggle that changes targetting to allies only?

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Having a tab target button for allies that functions like the one for enemies does would be pretty useful. Even more so if it prioritises allies, or works like the tab target for enemies currently does and first targets the enemy closest to the centre of the screen. 

[lorddarkflare.9186]

I think the best solution here is introducing better allied targeting keybinds. I know that won't help this particular case, but the fantasy and balance of the class seems to be based around single target support. I don't think completely removing that is the right call, but not making it flat out impossible for many is no good either.

[Will.9785]

So pretty much everything I predicted came to be... and its actually even worse that I imagined when it comes to using dual skills.

The spec is basically non-functional with action camera enabled.

Please change the tether to work more like Druid staff auto attacks - where it tethers to the first enemy it hits and allies in the beam receive healing/buffs.  At this point that's probably the best solution.  Lord knows we have enough key binds as it is and frankly I don't have room for any more.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Will.9785

[benaq.6059]

The allied targetting keybind doesn't even target other players.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

Even without limitations of input devices i find specter hard to play efficiently, i also use the action camara and feel like playing beethoven's piano on the keyboard while accomplishing little with it compared to other AoE support.

This may be not as hard in structured groups of raids, dungeons or PvP, as in Open World Events but without coordinated teamplay oh boy

[Lucinellia.9247]

On 10/23/2021 at 6:41 AM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

Not sure of the full scope of your limitations but just as an FYI there are keybinds for allied targeting. Maybe you could bind them to your mouse buttons?

 

On 10/23/2021 at 2:00 PM, saerni.2584 said:

I looked into key binds yesterday after the stream. Right now I'm looking for flexibility between targeting enemies and targeting allies. So I have a "Previous Enemy" and "Previous Ally"  bind set up now. But I'm planning on some degree of manual targeting for setting up with who I'm supporting.
 

For you, it may be easier to have a cycling Ally target bound. But that still won't be precise. So I see why you raise the issue of needing to click with a mouse. 

Can we please stop with the idea of targeting allies with a keybind being a solution that is already present in the game?

 

It isn't.

 

The "Target ally" keybinds, all three of them, do not cycle between players but instead "allies" such as minis, NPCs, clones and Druid spirits. As such, target ally keybinds are not a solution.

Fixing the ally targeting keybinds to actually do what a lot of people here think they do would be a good start, but Specter needs a lot of additional thought and if there are actually any advantages in terms of gameplay to having allied targeting be such a focus. OP is entirely correct that the current implementation of Specter is beyond terrible from an accessibility point of view.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Lucinellia.9247

[Jumpel.3972]

On 10/23/2021 at 7:36 AM, Will.9785 said:

I've been playing GW2 for 9 years as a thief main.  I can't use a mouse/keyboard.  I use an alternate input device that maps to keyboard keys and I'm limited in what I can do.  I have to play with action camera

I wonder how do you played before the action camera (realese with HoT).

 

Can't see them make it work on action camera or only the enemy part of skills

[Will.9785]

2 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

I wonder how do you played before the action camera (realese with HoT).

I haven't always had the limitations I have now, and in point of fact I stopped playing the game 9-10 months after its release due to my issue and returned about 6 months following the release of HOT.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Will.9785

[Za Shaloc.3908]

6 hours ago, Lucinellia.9247 said:

 

Can we please stop with the idea of targeting allies with a keybind being a solution that is already present in the game?

 

It isn't.

 

The "Target ally" keybinds, all three of them, do not cycle between players but instead "allies" such as minis, NPCs, clones and Druid spirits. As such, target ally keybinds are not a solution.

Fixing the ally targeting keybinds to actually do what a lot of people here think they do would be a good start, but Specter needs a lot of additional thought and if there are actually any advantages in terms of gameplay to having allied targeting be such a focus.

 

Ha. Yeah actually after posting that I went in game to try it out and had myself a good laugh cycling through minis and flame rams in WvW. 🤣

[Vidit.7108]

I did a bunch of fractals, the supposed ideal setting for the single target heals. There is a lot happening on screen that makes it's allied support clunky at best (swampland was a bit yikes). One person strays off slightly or your aoe heal misses (because its range is small) and moving to help someone takes longer. Couple it with the lack of on demand stability, it's difficult for people to use reliably even without motor problems on their end.

I've played other healers in fractals before and there is a lot less effort on my part needed to keep people alive. 

[ASP.8093]

44 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I did a bunch of fractals, the supposed ideal setting for the single target heals. There is a lot happening on screen that makes it's allied support clunky at best (swampland was a bit yikes). One person strays off slightly or your aoe heal misses (because its range is small) and moving to help someone takes longer. Couple it with the lack of on demand stability, it's difficult for people to use reliably even without motor problems on their end.

I've played other healers in fractals before and there is a lot less effort on my part needed to keep people alive. 

I ended up letting the party agree to allow me to just keep a called target on a player the whole time so I could more easily target-swap between bosses and players.

Even then, I think Sc/P #3 is INCREDIBLY POWERFUL but also kinda hard to use properly, because the initial shot teleports you to the target but what you really want is to be casting the beam further away from you. So optimal play involves target-swapping between the initial skill and the flip skill, teleporting to one player and then targeting someone else on the other side of the group. Which feels like they're replaced a normal class' "optimal rotation" with something even fiddlier and more punishing.

The payoff, of course, is huge, though: 100% Alac and 100% Quickness, plus decent group healing, great spot healing, and enough CC to handle most breakbar stuff. But it'd be so much easier to just bring a Scrapper or something.

Edited October 27, 2021 by ASP.8093

[Vidit.7108]

17 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

100% Quickness,

I think trying to seriously hand out 100% quickness is a little bit of a pipe dream because of how narrow the range is. I could get like 2 sometimes 3 people 100% uptime but I can tell you already that will never happen with social awkwardness unless maybe you can Conga-line the group somehow. I was able to get close to 4 people 100% uptime (or close enough as to not matter) but I was recasting it over and over to make it happen.
You have to remember most other quickness providers have wiggle room that means people don't need to stack exactly in one spot, just generally in one spot. I had three people in a row, aimed in the middle and only two got quickness in a few instances. 

[ShadowCatz.8437]

On 10/23/2021 at 3:00 PM, saerni.2584 said:

I looked into key binds yesterday after the stream. Right now I'm looking for flexibility between targeting enemies and targeting allies. So I have a "Previous Enemy" and "Previous Ally"  bind set up now. But I'm planning on some degree of manual targeting for setting up with who I'm supporting.
 

For you, it may be easier to have a cycling Ally target bound. But that still won't be precise. So I see why you raise the issue of needing to click with a mouse. 

 

I assume you are using some kind of auto-target to help you with enemies you need to target with the target dependent skills. I think the issue with that is that auto-target goes for enemies and not allies. 
 

Perhaps the solution is for Anet to add an auto-target for allies option (could not be selected same time as auto-target for enemies) and then add a key bind that lets you toggle them (similar to the lock auto-target). 

As far as I can tell from playing healer in ESO where healer needed to use healing skill with large AOEs for healing and someone of your group would suddenly drop in their health pool there where algorithm (for healing skill) to make them on higher priority then the rest of group that you gave regeneration healing over time to keep their health up.
(I haven't been playing ESO for some time so skills might have changed since then, the main point still stand that it is possible to give priority in game for who will be selected with these skills targeting system (enemy for debuff or allied for buff) with at least a simple rule set that would lessen this problem.)

Here in this game with Action Camera mode and how this game will set up to tab taget target enemy it seem to lack that feature.  ANet would need to add something in their code to actually target alleys under certain conditions like low health, standing close to higher health pool with defiance bar (for bosses and enemies which most likelye would cause problems for allied melee players fighting close to hostile target in PvE or PvP modes like WvW or sPvP).

It wouldn't make anything large differnce for those that don't use Action Camera mode as they can control this better then an algorithm would be able to do, but it would at least place use which use mainly Action Camera in a better situation to target allied when needed.

This isn't an issue only those with physical disabilities experience, but most Action Camera user in this game. The developement of Action Camare have been standing still for many years the one person responsible stopped working on it.

[Doggie.3184]

The game just isn't really built for it and I doubt they'll be doing a lot of UI and control setting additions for one class.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

5 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

The game just isn't really built for it and I doubt they'll be doing a lot of UI and control setting additions for one class.

This isn't an issue with only one class, this is also a problem with classes that might use Pets for support to allies. As it looks for the future of GW2 it is not impossible that all classes will have option to use pet like creatures or features that work like this way in the long run. ANet gave Mechanist a pet, changed how Rangers Pets work and Guards have their summon weapon etc. so it is not far fetched to think that more and more of classes will have something that also need to target allies better in the future for AC users.