Specter Feedback Thread

[Ivaldi.5076]

4 hours ago, Asur.9178 said:

How VERY disappointing. All those feedbacks and basically nothing was addressed and changed.

Why even start a feedback thread and pretend to read and consider any feedback, when they don't care about thief and people's feedback, and ONLY ever consider those feedbacks given in private discord.

This thread has been nothing but a show.

 

For real.  Its extremely disappointing.

[Doggie.3184]

If Measured Shot is destined to forever teleport us I really wish it was towards the enemie and not away~ so I can actually use my wells without worrying about when I'm allowed to Sc 3 without being knocked out of them. 

Really wish this game gave us a choice on what direction a skill teleports/dodges us. Since 100% of the group will be next to the enemy as well it'd make better use of the aoe healing without having to target an ally constantly and let us stay in boon range... unless this class is supposed to never be allowed to attack the enemy with ini for their DPS, I have no idea. It just comes off as a clashing design to me.

Extra annoying that our only Scepter AoE has to be the most irritating one.

There's also the fact that this entire mechanic can be scrapped and just saved for P/D ( which I hate it on that set too anyways XD but really, why have another condi weapon do it? )

Edited March 19, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[AikijinX.6258]

Twilight Combo velocity was not addressed. Needs a velocity increase.

Edit: T.C should also pierce, since it’s literally a wave of energy that slicing the air, which should pierce thru people.

Edited March 7, 2022 by AikijinX.6258

[RyuDragnier.9476]

Shroud is still pretty weak too. Useful for buying time and keeping yourself alive a little longer, but outside of that it's pretty...meh.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

57 minutes ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

Shroud is still pretty weak too. Useful for buying time and keeping yourself alive a little longer, but outside of that it's pretty...meh.

You would think a thief that Embraces the darkness and a shroud of Shadows would actually have more access to blinds in different conditions other than freaking torment and auto attacking someone just to apply torment it's kind of bland

[RyuDragnier.9476]

1 hour ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

You would think a thief that Embraces the darkness and a shroud of Shadows would actually have more access to blinds in different conditions other than freaking torment and auto attacking someone just to apply torment it's kind of bland

Or, I don't know...an actual condi-bomb of some kind in shroud. Like all your moves giving different conditions to capitalize on the Strength of Shadows trait and the condition damage aspect.

[kash.9213]

8 minutes ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

Or, I don't know...an actual condi-bomb of some kind in shroud. Like all your moves giving different conditions to capitalize on the Strength of Shadows trait and the condition damage aspect.

I took their design of Shroud to be a Fixer-Upper utility bar to dip in and out of and boost with Weapon Swap modifiers. 

[Shalien.9018]

Specter is such a let down.

 

I wish I started the story with a different character, once I got to New Kaineng I switched back to Daredevil and it's way better.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

What I would like to see is Sc/P #3, when targeting an enemy to :Fire an unblockable shot at your foe, which blinds them, and then shadowstep to them and apply (1s) of immobilize then shadowstep away from the target. Endless Night would be unaffected. This simple change could allow more synergy with the specter traits and other thief shadowstep/heal traits. 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Is Karl McLain still lead on thief combat and design? We hope that he/whomever is currently in charge would give us some sort of input on what we'd like to see/having issues with 😞

[BobbyT.7192]

Can the shroud button please get a 1 sec cooldown to prevent accidentally double tapping. Really annoying to pop in just to fat finger it and pop right out.

 

[RyuDragnier.9476]

1 hour ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

Can the shroud button please get a 1 sec cooldown to prevent accidentally double tapping. Really annoying to pop in just to fat finger it and pop right out.

It's also immediately followed by you hitting the floor due to the double tap because you no longer have your safeguard against damage.

Edited March 3, 2022 by RyuDragnier.9476

[Vidit.7108]

Specter now that it's launched just isn't so great. Shroud is just too weak to be useful, boon performance is underwhelming without stability, the heal scaling isn't worth using healing power. It's not the worst thing in the world but a lot of little improvements would have made it satisfying to use. As it stands at launch I just don't like Specter all that much and I really wanted to like it.

It doesn't seem like feedback we gave you was put to use. It's not just that my concerns weren't addressed, though I'm not sure any of them were, but there is a whole topic here with a lot of constructive criticism and I'm not sure what actual improvements to Specter got made as a result of this feedback. We got some nerfs... yay....

Even like a message from a dev somewhere saying "We're working on improvements to Specter, but nothing is ready yet." Would go a long way to making it feel less like this topic was a waste of all of our time. 

Things we were told the Specter could do well it really can't. If I spend weeks and months honing my single ally target skills the amount of healing available to give to my allies is just too small to justify doing it. It's a skill who's mastery brings with it no reward.

[Nomad.4301]

Going to re-post my DPS experience from another thread:

I've since tried Specter as a Condi DPS and dear lord is it terrible, can someone who has figured out a build for this please elaborate on how you get more than 10-15k DPS, because even with food/full vipers and full leg gear I struggle to break 15k on a target golem with self boons only. Most of the traits are trash for DPS (minor tier is literally only support, one of which is a worthless 60-300s CD passive) I am aware that DPS goes up slightly with venom share but even post-nerf solo condi Deadeye or daredevil is doubling specter's golem DPS and those elite aren't even "condi focused". Your weapon skills on scepter are very poorly optimized for PvE damage thanks to the massive aftercasts and pointless shadowsteps and due to the specter's "trade-off" of having 3 less initiative, you're basically locked into trickery again and you still end up running out of ini constantly just trying to keep condis up. I literally do more DPS with just auto attacks on Power DD than I do going full ham on specter. As for the "shroud", entering it is a huge DPS LOSS as none of the abilities on it are worth clicking on, even once, in terms of DPS. I'm genuinely asking if anyone has found out a way to make this spec work for DPS (not some lame support hybrid) as I'm struggling to even find a reason to use specter at all.

 

Going to be honest, as a thief main with way too many hours of experience on this profession, this is giving me serious buyers remorse for EoD. At least Harbinger is fun, Harbinger shroud is how a GOOD shroud mechanic should look, it makes specter shroud look like a joke.

[Curennos.9307]

Post-launch feedback only on specter traits.

 

Specifically, Consume Shadows, Amplified Siphoning, and Shadestep. 

 

Shadestep is in the wrong place. Rez traits have basically always been in the first or second trait tiers. Most atm are in the first tier and, iirc, most suggestions about them have noted that they'd be more appropriate in the second tier. Shadestep is not strong enough to be a GM trait.

 

Amplified Siphoning is...meh. The increased shroud gain is nice but the barrier increase on allied siphon is lackluster, especially considering players would have to give up a lot of other traits in order to benefit. 

 

Consume Shadows, on the other hand, was super strong and got pretty much obliterated. At this point, trading all of your shadow force for a heal, even at maximum, feels really bad. And, more than likely, you won't be anywhere near max after the 5 seconds required to max it out. 

 

I think the following would work out much better: Move Shadestep to Amplified Siphoning's spot, move Amp Siphon to Consume Shadow's spot, and move Consume Shadows to the GM slot. Then buff Consume Shadows to be 20-25% per second, because 6.5% is atrocious and a max of ...32.5%? Is just meh.

 

This would also make a much better, imo, interplay and choice between the GM traits

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

On 10/28/2021 at 7:04 PM, Sorasnobody.9350 said:

I don't get what you mean? 

It was rich text you gotta be careful and make it plain text otherwise we have to highlight it to read it. Ty though 

[RyuDragnier.9476]

2 hours ago, Curennos.9307 said:

Consume Shadows, on the other hand, was super strong and got pretty much obliterated. At this point, trading all of your shadow force for a heal, even at maximum, feels really bad. And, more than likely, you won't be anywhere near max after the 5 seconds required to max it out.

I was pretty angry about the nerf, but after putting it into practice in open world and the story, it's still pretty strong. I've gotten into the rhythm of Shroud, 5, 4, 3, then exit. As long as you're not getting horribly focused, you usually have enough to give you a decent shield. Even have used it during the last map's meta, and didn't have much issues as long as I wasn't standing in bad (which is really hard to avoid during that, I admit).

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 minute ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

I was pretty angry about the nerf, but after putting it into practice in open world and the story, it's still pretty strong. I've gotten into the rhythm of Shroud, 5, 4, 3, then exit. As long as you're not getting horribly focused, you usually have enough to give you a decent shield. Even have used it during the last map's meta, and didn't have much issues as long as I wasn't standing in bad (which is really hard to avoid during that, I admit).

I just wish specter was able to do more in the arsenal with blinds and boonsteals to give to allies like fire for effect acts near target and near you to be true support. The release version of firre for effect was superb!

 

For a class using the shadows, we still lack blinds in it and all we really get is ally support but cant really barrier ourselves effectively to where it feels like torment does nothing. We can kite somewhat with sc/p #3 but in the end it still sucks on condi or healing builds as where it hits hard for power builds...the well of tears hits like a wet noodle with power build.

 

Wish we got sceptor AND offhand focus as weapon sets because right now it lacks so much potential being single target support with a few gimmicky wells

[Curennos.9307]

16 minutes ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

I was pretty angry about the nerf, but after putting it into practice in open world and the story, it's still pretty strong. I've gotten into the rhythm of Shroud, 5, 4, 3, then exit. As long as you're not getting horribly focused, you usually have enough to give you a decent shield. Even have used it during the last map's meta, and didn't have much issues as long as I wasn't standing in bad (which is really hard to avoid during that, I admit).

It's 10% per stack in PvE and 6.5% in sPvP. I'm referring primarily to sPvP - not too concerned with what works or doesn't work in open world xD The issue is that it's a lackluster option compared to what basically every other support has in any setting where that sort of thing matters. 

 

Not saying it's totally useless, either - just that it feels mechanically impactful enough, but also happens to be weak enough, that it just feels **bad** where it is right now and I'd much prefer it have a spot as a GM trait if that's what it takes for it to be buffed to more reasonable levels. Also, the GM traits are lacking in a real AoE healing option + Shadestep is pretty out of place considering its relative strength and where rez traits usually are for other classes (even taking into consideration said traits may not be usable as often, but they do tend to have side effects as well, and specter players give up using siphon on an enemy to do it).

[Corvus.6172]

So i've been spamming Specter in end game pve content now and gotta say full dps Specter is good, dps alac is decent, but healspecter is lacking really hard sadly.

Problem being all other heal classes have a way to provide might and if you are planning to heal on Specter you have to ask somebody to give might on a dps build.

But since there were no might dps builds needed for a long time, there is only very few people being able to provide such thing.

A different concern is that u arent really able to constantly heal like other classes. You are very dependent on your shroud and heal well in that sense.

Also the healingpower scalings are all pretty low, so its barely worth going into that as a main stat. You mostly profit from health.

The much i love being able to targetheal people who get high pressure or even revive them on 1.2k range it dosent feel good having to ask someone to provide might for you because your class is just worse than all the others doing the same role.

 

So PLEASE make consistent choices in roles for pve content. This feels so unsatisfying at the moment and makes me just think i shouldn't play that class on heal at all and just use an HFB or alac mechanist instead.

 

 

Some general concerns on traits:

"Second Opinion" is useless compared to "Consume Shadows" considering you dont have good healing power scalings and the other trait is the main healing of the class. Having this trait over "Consume Shadows" makes no sense in any scenario. So i would prefer having a not healing oriented trait competing with "Consume Shadows". (Also taking into account that "Consume Shadows" is the best dps option in that tier due to "Rot Wallow Venom")

Becaue i feel like Consume Shadows is actually the strongest trait Specter has i would swap it with Shadestep actually nerfing dps and Alacrity Specters support and sustain while giving the option to opt into straight up more Healing power instead of a revive trait. (but please buff healing power scalings so this actually makes sense)

 

"Amplified Siphoning" is just really underwhelming because it only provides single target barrier and shadow force on enemy siphon, its a boring mechanic and dosent really provide anything for a build. You already have tons of single target barrier and other traits also increase shadow force generation, while the other 2 traits are core for their respective build and will never be dropped for "Amplified Siphoning".

 

"Traversing Dusk" having the same mechanic as "Shadow Savior" is just bad design. Shadow Savior in that sense isn't adding anything new to the table and just makes your shadowstep heals viable although they aren't good in general.

Just putting all the healing on "Shadow Savior" and putting a different Effect on "Traversing Dusk" would be more interesting. (maybe might or regeneration instead of the healing)

 

 

One more Point: Some wells have an unreasonable high cast time and aftercast. It feels really awkward hitting people mid fight with your alacrity and support on moving bosses. It just dosen't fit the fast and overall really responsive thief gameplay.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

Here is one piece of feedback.

* Heal/Support is completely useless if you need to do anything underwater (I have discovered a build that performs very very well). I have been running support heals for my fractal group along side a QB for extra boons so the boon well fills up. ANYHOW we had to SWITCH the person doing support because unique weapon skills + wells don't work underwater. Specter is completely butchered for that type of content. Once again thieves elite skills don't really serve well underwater.... RIP

Please make wells locked to the person who cast it or make it linger in the area that they cast it in without a shadow step while in underwater combat. Thief has constantly been overlooked or disregarded for it's elite specializations while underwater.

[HotDelirium.7984]

Can some of the Shroud skills get an update in effects?

Scepter skill 1 and 2,, stealth skill and haunt shot are all very similar. Differentiation would be enjoyable.

Can Twilight Combo get some sort of impact animation/effect? It just disappears on collision with no obvious hit effect. Can you also make it more purplish per the other skills....it being bright blue just seems out of place. 

Eternal night just looks like the herald's consume facet attack but purple. Maybe some more shadowy effects? 

Can the mind shock expanding aoe not be yellow? Other skills have effect-relevant indicators like the earth dagger aoe skill. An expanding shadow effect would be very neat.

Edited March 6, 2022 by HotDelirium.7984

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Please add a tiny ICD for activating shroud so it isnt as easy to double tap. It feels terrible to screw your entire rotation up due to double tapping.

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

Shadow form should get some type of visual so you can see if enemies and allys are in it. Im not sure if it does, but if it does, i can hardly tell. 

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

The visual clarity of raid boss teleport circles should be increased when wells are put on top of the areas where teleport circles appear. It will be something to get used to and I know the signs of a teleport going to happen, however if the wells are obscuring mechanical markers obviously that is not good.