All the male norn. They turned on us!

[EpicName.4523]

I suppose this thread will be banned for reasons unknown to me due to the extremely harsh censorship, but what the hell. Been banned before here, even when I believe I keep a civil tone, so probably gonna happen again. Never give a small man a sip of power or he or she will get thirsty beyond belief...

 

Been thinking about the writing in GW2. Was not gonna make a post until I unlocked the new episode a few hours ago and heard the words uttered in the title of this thread. 

 

There are some very interesting trends going on in the writing of this game. I don't really pay attention to the story, but since you have to play it to fully unlock a new episode it is unescapable. I am somewhat interested in writing myself, so I cannot help it but listen from time to time. Writing is indeed a very personal process because to make it good you have to add a piece of yourself. Of the things YOU consider important and the way YOU view the world as a whole. So, by examining certain trends you can analyze the opinion of a writer, his views and his agendas...

 

Let's take a look at some factions in this game, starting with the main enemies of two playable races - Flame legion and Svanir.

 

Flame legion are like misguided, fanatical worshipers who like to use magic, while the rest of their kin likes neither gods nor the use of magic.

Svanir are like misguided, fanatical worshipers of a dragon, while the rest of their kin likes to worship proper spirits. 

 

Do you know what both of their groups have in common? They are not particularly fond of...females. It is as if someone decided that these guys were not evil enough, so they made them uh...misogynistic and that man, THAT WAS PURE EVIL! KILL THEM!

 

That is just a small thing, to be honest. An obscure piece of lore which shouldn't bother anyone. But, if you take a look at the general story...

 

Have you noticed the male characters in GW2? How they behave, how they are portrayed? 

 

Braham...I think, he should be called Bra(t)ham. How and why he is annoying can take several pages to explain.

 

Mr. Thackeray can be described with a simple word, but it would be rude to say it, so let's try to give graphic explanation without being inappropriate. The marshal is something combining a synonym of the word "cat" + a type of weapon/tool called "whip". Combine cat+whip and you will know exactly what he is.

 

Something similar, but to a lesser extend can be said about Gorrik, because "Don't tell Taimi".

 

Rytlock is mostly sparred, but he is a furry, so it's hard to put him in the same basket as the rest. You must be aware that he is kind of a failure, though. He failed his legion, he released Balthi, he was never there for his son. If you take a deeper look at it, most of the recent messes were because of him.

 

Canach is...ok? Probably the only guy that is ok, maybe that is why you don't see him much in the later episodes.

 

How many of the female story characters have issues like these? How many are outright dislikable/annoying and constantly make bad decisions? 

 

Look, I am not angry, sad, disappointed and I don't even care that much. I really don't. But it is funny. And I really think the people making the story should try to be at least a bit more subtle. Peace. Waiting my ban for daring to question the narrative.

[Gibson.4036]

19 minutes ago, EpicName.4523 said:

 

 

Braham...I think, he should be called Bra(t)ham. How and why he is annoying can take several pages to explain.

 

Mr. Thackeray can be described with a simple word, but it would be rude to say it, so let's try to give graphic explanation without being inappropriate. The marshal is something combining a synonym of the word "cat" + a type of weapon/tool called "whip". Combine cat+whip and you will know exactly what he is.

 

Something similar, but to a lesser extend can be said about Gorrik, because "Don't tell Taimi".

 

Rytlock is mostly sparred, but he is a furry, so it's hard to put him in the same basket as the rest. You must be aware that he is kind of a failure, though. He failed his legion, he released Balthi, he was never there for his son. If you take a deeper look at it, most of the recent messes were because of him.

 

Canach is...ok? Probably the only guy that is ok, maybe that is why you don't see him much in the later episodes.

 

How many of the female story characters have issues like these? How many are outright dislikable/annoying and constantly make bad decisions? 

 

Look, I am not angry, sad, disappointed and I don't even care that much. I really don't. But it is funny. And I really think the people making the story should try to be at least a bit more subtle. Peace. Waiting my ban for daring to question the narrative.

Braham was annoying in the sense of a rebellious, impetuous teen. His gender had nothing to do with it.

I like Gorrik. I don't know what you're on about here. He's an academic blinded by his own narrow focus. Taimi is, too. Asura in general are. Nothing to do with gender here.

Rytlock... well Rytlock does suffer from stereotypically male aggression/pride issues, but so do the majority of Charr, male or female.

After Canach's popularity and featuring in story, you think they dropped him because the writers suddenly became anti-male?

What's your take on Trahearne? I mean, his voice acting, to me, came across like overcooked spaghetti, but he got to be the one who knew and spearheaded everything in core story, and then sacrifice himself to deus-ex-machina HoT. Hard to see some male-bashing agenda there.

What about Kos? The writers adore him.

Crazy Scarlet definitely wasn't sympathetic. How about angry, driven Zafirah? Snarky, single-minded Livia? Vicious, scheming Minister Estelle?

You seem to think your post is some sort of brave truth-telling that is going to get you banned, when it is really just a bunch of thinly veiled insinuations. No, there is not some clear pattern of male-hating, women-celebrating writing. It's in your head.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Xanadrine.4352]

I love Canach he is smooth and witty and just the right amount of arrogant to be confident without being a dwad. But it does seem the males in lead roles come off less impressive than the females. I see nothing wrong with having men be...men. As a woman I dont see sexism everywhere , I think we have taken it too far with all this stuff in society. 

[Batel.9206]

You do have a point. Even the major female characters who *do* make mistakes (cough Caithe cough), we're not really "allowed" to be angry at them for more than a bit...then everything's just fine and dandy, like it never happened. No grudges here, even when it'd make perfect sense to do so. Meanwhile we're still beating up Braham for being moody.

Imagine if Eir had been a man who left his wife and son. He'd be excoriated by not only other characters, but all the players, too (and rightfully so). But...nah, Eir's a woman who left her husband and son and...that's fine. No one really gets angry at her...except Braham, who is treated like a fool for being rightfully angry with her, and I lost count of the times he was told to get over it or "understand." There was exactly one time when Eir was regretful over her decision...and Braham himself basically told her "nah, I get it, let's move on, don't beat yourself up." ....that's not how character development works.

Queen Jennah's pretty much the only level-headed ruler of the various heads of state (well, her and the Pale Tree, but the Pale Tree doesn't really do much). Everyone else, all men, are short-sighted fools. We saw that come to the forefront during Season Two, gathering the heads of state for a conference in the Grove.

 

Taimi's perfect. Marjory and Kasmeer are absolutely perfect. Seriously, what are their character flaws? ............anything? Kasmeer...occasionally gets nervous? Marjory...sometimes is stubborn? ...but their flaws, or the mistakes they make from those flaws, don't ever come back to haunt them or impact them in any meaningful way, so for all intents and purposes they don't exist. Meanwhile, Braham and Rytlock's flaws and mistakes have driven parts of the plot for a good long while now, create actual conflict and character development (to a point)...ironically, for all their "bad" flaws and foibles, they certainly feel more realistic than the Mary Sues we're given for female characters (and I personally like the guys more). Perfection =/= good characters. Flaws =/= bad characters. But they do serve as a giant signal for what the writers think is "good" and "bad."

(Canach is pretty much the only well-written guy who has his bright spots and his not-so-bright spots, and that's why he's so beloved by much of the fanbase [beyond his hilarious snarky wit]. We've seen actual character development with him! The writers can make a character like this! ...why they don't do it more often is a puzzle.)

 

Yes, the progressive writers do have a very obvious agenda. And yes, it is extremely annoying. (Just for the record, I'm a woman. I'm also a writer, and agenda-driven writing is some of the most irritating stuff out there.)

...and yes, you and I will probably be flamed to high heaven. Oh well!

Edited October 26, 2021 by Batel.9206

[aspirine.6852]

6 minutes ago, Batel.9206 said:

You do have a point. Even the major female characters who *do* make mistakes (cough Caithe cough), we're not really "allowed" to be angry at them for more than a bit...then everything's just fine and dandy, like it never happened. No grudges here, even when it'd make perfect sense to do so. Meanwhile we're still beating up Braham for being moody.

Imagine if Eir had been a man who left his wife and son. He'd be excoriated by not only other characters, but all the players, too (and rightfully so). But...nah, Eir's a woman who left her husband and son and...that's fine. No one really gets angry at her...except Braham, who is treated like a fool for being rightfully angry with her, and I lost count of the times he was told to get over it or "understand." There was exactly one time when Eir was regretful over her decision...and Braham himself basically told her "nah, I get it, let's move on, don't beat yourself up." ....that's not how character development works.

Queen Jennah's pretty much the only level-headed ruler of the various heads of state (well, her and the Pale Tree, but the Pale Tree doesn't really do much). Everyone else, all men, are short-sighted fools. We saw that come to the forefront during Season Two, gathering the heads of state for a conference in the Grove.

 

Taimi's perfect. Marjory and Kasmeer are absolutely perfect. Seriously, what are their character flaws? ............anything? Kasmeer...occasionally gets nervous? Marjory...sometimes is stubborn? ...but their flaws, or the mistakes they make from those flaws, don't ever come back to haunt them or impact them in any meaningful way, so for all intents and purposes they don't exist. Meanwhile, Braham and Rytlock's flaws and mistakes have driven parts of the plot for a good long while now, create actual conflict and character development (to a point)...ironically, for all their "bad" flaws and foibles, they certainly feel more realistic than the Mary Sues we're given for female characters (and I personally like the guys more). Perfection =/= good characters. Flaws =/= bad characters. But they do serve as a giant signal for what the writers think is "good" and "bad."

(Canach is pretty much the only well-written guy who has his bright spots and his not-so-bright spots, and that's why he's so beloved by much of the fanbase [beyond his hilarious snarky wit]. We've seen actual character development with him! The writers can make a character like this! ...why they don't do it more often is a puzzle.)

 

Yes, the progressive writers do have a very obvious agenda. And yes, it is extremely annoying. (Just for the record, I'm a woman. I'm also a writer, and agenda-driven writing is some of the most irritating stuff out there.)

...and yes, you and I will probably be flamed to high heaven. Oh well!

Sign of the times.

[Felippe.3879]

56 minutes ago, EpicName.4523 said:

I suppose this thread will be banned for reasons unknown to me due to the extremely harsh censorship, but what the hell. Been banned before here, even when I believe I keep a civil tone, so probably gonna happen again. Never give a small man a sip of power or he or she will get thirsty beyond belief...

 

Been thinking about the writing in GW2. Was not gonna make a post until I unlocked the new episode a few hours ago and heard the words uttered in the title of this thread. 

 

There are some very interesting trends going on in the writing of this game. I don't really pay attention to the story, but since you have to play it to fully unlock a new episode it is unescapable. I am somewhat interested in writing myself, so I cannot help it but listen from time to time. Writing is indeed a very personal process because to make it good you have to add a piece of yourself. Of the things YOU consider important and the way YOU view the world as a whole. So, by examining certain trends you can analyze the opinion of a writer, his views and his agendas...

 

Let's take a look at some factions in this game, starting with the main enemies of two playable races - Flame legion and Svanir.

 

Flame legion are like misguided, fanatical worshipers who like to use magic, while the rest of their kin likes neither gods nor the use of magic.

Svanir are like misguided, fanatical worshipers of a dragon, while the rest of their kin likes to worship proper spirits. 

 

Do you know what both of their groups have in common? They are not particularly fond of...females. It is as if someone decided that these guys were not evil enough, so they made them uh...misogynistic and that man, THAT WAS PURE EVIL! KILL THEM!

 

That is just a small thing, to be honest. An obscure piece of lore which shouldn't bother anyone. But, if you take a look at the general story...

 

Have you noticed the male characters in GW2? How they behave, how they are portrayed? 

 

Braham...I think, he should be called Bra(t)ham. How and why he is annoying can take several pages to explain.

 

Mr. Thackeray can be described with a simple word, but it would be rude to say it, so let's try to give graphic explanation without being inappropriate. The marshal is something combining a synonym of the word "cat" + a type of weapon/tool called "whip". Combine cat+whip and you will know exactly what he is.

 

Something similar, but to a lesser extend can be said about Gorrik, because "Don't tell Taimi".

 

Rytlock is mostly sparred, but he is a furry, so it's hard to put him in the same basket as the rest. You must be aware that he is kind of a failure, though. He failed his legion, he released Balthi, he was never there for his son. If you take a deeper look at it, most of the recent messes were because of him.

 

Canach is...ok? Probably the only guy that is ok, maybe that is why you don't see him much in the later episodes.

 

How many of the female story characters have issues like these? How many are outright dislikable/annoying and constantly make bad decisions? 

 

Look, I am not angry, sad, disappointed and I don't even care that much. I really don't. But it is funny. And I really think the people making the story should try to be at least a bit more subtle. Peace. Waiting my ban for daring to question the narrative.

Well, what you wrote does indeed show you have not been paying attention.

[EpicName.4523]

49 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Braham was annoying in the sense of a rebellious, impetuous teen. His gender had nothing to do with it.

I like Gorrik. I don't know what you're on about here. He's an academic blinded by his own narrow focus. Taimi is, too. Asura in general are. Nothing to do with gender here.

Rytlock... well Rytlock does suffer from stereotypically male aggression/pride issues, but so do the majority of Charr, male or female.

After Canach's popularity and featuring in story, you think they dropped him because the writers suddenly became anti-male?

What's your take on Trahearne? I mean, his voice acting, to me, came across like overcooked spaghetti, but he got to be the one who knew and spearheaded everything in core story, and then sacrifice himself to deus-ex-machina HoT. Hard to see some male-bashing agenda there.

What about Kos? The writers adore him.

Crazy Scarlet definitely wasn't sympathetic. How about angry, driven Zafirah? Snarky, single-minded Livia? Vicious, scheming Minister Estelle?

You seem to think your post is some sort of brave truth-telling that is going to get you banned, when it is really just a bunch of thinly veiled insinuations. No, there is not some clear pattern of male-hating, women-celebrating writing. It's in your head.

Buddy, I have received warnings and bans for things I could not consider possible to be offensive. I suspect this will be the case here, as well.

 

Braham is just constantly doing something wrong. Like, all the time and he constantly has to apologize for not living up to expectations.

Gorrik is just afraid of Taimi. Afraid that she will scold him and the right word is NAG him. 

Rytlock has been covered, nothing more to say without repeating. 

Canach is indeed pretty cool, for being flawed, but witty and relatable at the same time. 

Trahearne I believe is just...there. Like, physically there to narrate and then die, likely because players did not enjoy how he became leader when they did most of the work.

Wasn't Kos from GW1? We're talking about GW2 here where he just appears once or twice as a fan service. Don't forget that is he a person of color too and they cannot be bad. 

Yeah "Crazy Scarlet." Crazy, but brilliant. Her biggest flaw was that she was too brilliant for the rest to see and in the end she was just a puppet of that big, bad Mordremoth. She was, in fact, a victim. Poor woman!

Zafirah is another person of color with anger issues, but despite that she is a hero, a supporting character supporting a noble cause. What are you, a myso...Hehe, just kidding. Livia is also a hero working for the Shining Blade. How is she bad?

And the minister Estelle is some random minor villain, a pawn of that bad, bad Caudecus, the fiend!

Edited October 26, 2021 by EpicName.4523

[Telgum.6071]

I noticed this too. And I have a theory, but I won't dare to write it here for obvious reasons. I just advise you to rewatch any of the previous specializations livestreams and, if you noticed all those things, you'll notice this too.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[Zavijah.2695]

What's wrong with being flawed? I accept the characters as they are. 

I'm not looking for things to be victimised about either, and your disclaimers in advance of being potentially banned don't help your cause as coming across as reasonable. 

Have confidence in what you have to say, don't focus on the negatives because that's the outcome you're going to otherwise manifest. 

[Astralporing.1957]

Some of the things you may have not noticed:

Charr are generally backward in many things. Not just the flame legion - there's a reason why 4 legions are all descended from 4 sons of the last Khan Ur (and only from his sons). The role of females in Charr life is mostly a recent thing, and partially accepted by, say, Blood legion (which in many ways is not any better than Flames) primarily because the legions needed the number advantage over Flames. For the most part other legions treat females more equal, don't like gods, and don;t trust magic mainly in opposition to the flames. Not because they themselves were originally any different, but simply because they ended up hating Flames and all they represented.

And it's not even that simple with the flames. Remember, Olmakhan are also Flame Legion. Besides, just wait till you meet Efram. I personally consider him to be the best of the Imperators.

As for Svanir, they myzogyny is, in a way, purely accidental. They treat women as less worthy simply because Jora happened to refuse Drakkar, when her brother Svanir accepted the power.

As for Kasmeer, Marjory, etc vs Braham and co, notice how of all the original Destiny's edge, of the 3 females one is dead, one is pretty much permanently removed from the story for some unspecified reasons, and only one (Caithe) is still active and important to the story. And of the newer characters, Kasmeer, Marjory and Rox are so unimportant they might as well not exist, which leaves only Taimi as a female of any importance. On the other hand, Braham (no matter how he gets described) is practically key to the latest story, and the only character more important than him is Rytlock, which by now graduated to be the character of the most importance all around.

I know it's easy to see the world in black and white, and try to fit everything you see to match your preconceptions, but sometimes thinking and paying attention more would not hurt either.

[Sugar Min.5834]

2 hours ago, EpicName.4523 said:

I suppose this thread will be banned for reasons unknown to me due to the extremely harsh censorship, but what the hell. Been banned before here, even when I believe I keep a civil tone, so probably gonna happen again. Never give a small man a sip of power or he or she will get thirsty beyond belief...

 

Been thinking about the writing in GW2. Was not gonna make a post until I unlocked the new episode a few hours ago and heard the words uttered in the title of this thread. 

 

There are some very interesting trends going on in the writing of this game. I don't really pay attention to the story, but since you have to play it to fully unlock a new episode it is unescapable. I am somewhat interested in writing myself, so I cannot help it but listen from time to time. Writing is indeed a very personal process because to make it good you have to add a piece of yourself. Of the things YOU consider important and the way YOU view the world as a whole. So, by examining certain trends you can analyze the opinion of a writer, his views and his agendas...

 

Let's take a look at some factions in this game, starting with the main enemies of two playable races - Flame legion and Svanir.

 

Flame legion are like misguided, fanatical worshipers who like to use magic, while the rest of their kin likes neither gods nor the use of magic.

Svanir are like misguided, fanatical worshipers of a dragon, while the rest of their kin likes to worship proper spirits. 

 

Do you know what both of their groups have in common? They are not particularly fond of...females. It is as if someone decided that these guys were not evil enough, so they made them uh...misogynistic and that man, THAT WAS PURE EVIL! KILL THEM!

 

That is just a small thing, to be honest. An obscure piece of lore which shouldn't bother anyone. But, if you take a look at the general story...

 

Have you noticed the male characters in GW2? How they behave, how they are portrayed? 

 

Braham...I think, he should be called Bra(t)ham. How and why he is annoying can take several pages to explain.

 

Mr. Thackeray can be described with a simple word, but it would be rude to say it, so let's try to give graphic explanation without being inappropriate. The marshal is something combining a synonym of the word "cat" + a type of weapon/tool called "whip". Combine cat+whip and you will know exactly what he is.

 

Something similar, but to a lesser extend can be said about Gorrik, because "Don't tell Taimi".

 

Rytlock is mostly sparred, but he is a furry, so it's hard to put him in the same basket as the rest. You must be aware that he is kind of a failure, though. He failed his legion, he released Balthi, he was never there for his son. If you take a deeper look at it, most of the recent messes were because of him.

 

Canach is...ok? Probably the only guy that is ok, maybe that is why you don't see him much in the later episodes.

 

How many of the female story characters have issues like these? How many are outright dislikable/annoying and constantly make bad decisions? 

 

Look, I am not angry, sad, disappointed and I don't even care that much. I really don't. But it is funny. And I really think the people making the story should try to be at least a bit more subtle. Peace. Waiting my ban for daring to question the narrative.

I strongly concur to this. Last time it was just warning or suspension (rare) for a day and option to appeal. Now, the Mods here force you to agree that you are at fault and followed by a three day ban from posting in the forum for even reasons i cannot understand and comments that won't even hurt a baby. And I have read comments that are far more insulting and trolling and they are left untouched. Guess i will get another ban for this. Thanks Anet.

[Farohna.6247]

There are other games with male dominated storylines.  Perhaps that would be more appealing to you.  May I direct you to some of Blizzards games....

[Xanadrine.4352]

2 hours ago, Batel.9206 said:

Yes, the progressive writers do have a very obvious agenda. And yes, it is extremely annoying. (Just for the record, I'm a woman. I'm also a writer, and agenda-driven writing is some of the most irritating stuff out there.)

I agree with you as a woman, its going so far that even wow is removing anything even remotely construed as sexist or not pro female/race/ect. All the silly little emotes and jokes being taken out, its honestly beyond ridiculous how far companies will now bend over backwards to appease . I think there comes a time when you go too far and become that which you accuse others of being.  Its like a witch hunt , and really im sick of all the woke and cancel and appropriation, give it a rest, the overly sensitive really do need to grow up and grow some thick skin. Labeling men as the enemy has become a point of contention with me and society. Some of my best friends are men, and honestly I find them far more loyal and honest and down to earth than my female friends. 

[Debesyla.7102]

But... I can't understand - why is this in any way important?

Like, I don't argue with idea that somehow the game portrays "man bad" (though I disagree with this) - I will leave this for someone else to debate - but... Do this matter? Do this make story in any way "bad"? If you read a book by, let's say, Alexander Dumas - do the tropes of Dumas make the story "bad"? 

I'm just wondering loudly - what is bad in storytelling? Why is it bad? 

[Xanadrine.4352]

Just now, Debesyla.7102 said:

But... I can't understand - why is this in any way important?

Like, I don't argue with idea that somehow the game portrays "man bad" (though I disagree with this) - I will leave this for someone else to debate - but... Do this matter? Do this make story in any way "bad"? If you read a book by, let's say, Alexander Dumas - do the tropes of Dumas make the story "bad"? 

I'm just wondering loudly - what is bad in storytelling? Why is it bad? 

No its not about making the story bad. Its about bending over backwards to appease a group strictly so you dont get called sexist or racist or whatever ist they see you as. By making concessions to w/e group you are trying to put first, instead of making the characters the way they would be in a world like tyria. Anyone that thinks in a world such as that Logan wouldnt be a a bruiser of a man is completely trying to paint a gentle and feminist Logan, when the reality would be very far from that.  

[The Greyhawk.9107]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

.....The role of females in Charr life is mostly a recent thing....

No, charr females have hunted and fought along side the males throughout their history, it was the Flame Legion/Shaman Caste that changed that for a few hundred years until they were overthrown.  Re-read the lore documents or Ghost of Ascalon if you have time, they will verify what I've said.

[EpicName.4523]

7 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I noticed this too. And I have a theory, but I won't dare to write it here for obvious reasons. I just advise you to rewatch any of the previous specializations livestreams and, if you noticed all those things, you'll notice this too.

 

I think I know what you mean. Wink-wink :)

[EpicName.4523]

5 hours ago, Debesyla.7102 said:

But... I can't understand - why is this in any way important?

Like, I don't argue with idea that somehow the game portrays "man bad" (though I disagree with this) - I will leave this for someone else to debate - but... Do this matter? Do this make story in any way "bad"? If you read a book by, let's say, Alexander Dumas - do the tropes of Dumas make the story "bad"? 

I'm just wondering loudly - what is bad in storytelling? Why is it bad? 

Dumas is a master storyteller and his work is timeless. His "tropes" are not questioned because he is good at what he does. 

 

If you make a character/story/lore that follow certain other tropes, tropes which actually hurt any of the above, you must be questioned why. If you can't make appealing lore/story and characters you hurt your product and therefore - your sales. 

 

If you believe that portraying man poorly is does not matter just look at the recent Hollywood movies and see the downward spiral. Star Wars is one of the most well-known offenders. 

 

And now this agenda is infecting video games, slowly, but surely. If that isn't a problem if you like to spend time on games, then what is?

Edited October 27, 2021 by EpicName.4523

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

No, charr females have hunted and fought along side the males throughout their history, it was the Flame Legion/Shaman Caste that changed that for a few hundred years until they were overthrown.  Re-read the lore documents or Ghost of Ascalon if you have time, they will verify what I've said.

Sure they did. And it's purely incidental that all the legions of the last Khan-Ur were led by his sons, and of all the imperators we've ever heard about the only two female ones are a recent thing (with one being very recent).

[The Greyhawk.9107]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure they did. And it's purely incidental that all the legions of the last Khan-Ur were led by his sons, and of all the imperators we've ever heard about the only two female ones are a recent thing (with one being very recent).

You're assuming that the Khan-Ur had any daughters to be counted among the claimants to his throne, their possible existence cannot be verified.   Next your assuming that due to the alleged requirement that only a male heir take the title of Khan-Ur that females couldn't serve a soldiers.  Thirdly, the Khan-Ur died almost fifteen hundred years ago.  The English language isn't that old.  In the event that female charr didn't fight along side the males we have a time period more than long enough for that to change and then become ingrained into their culture.

Also, if female charr fighting alongside the males is such a recent thing, then why did the Shaman Caste have to ban them from fighting after Bathea Havocbringer's rebellion?  Wouldn't they already be disallowed from joining warbands?

[Dawanarth.4601]

12 hours ago, EpicName.4523 said:

Trahearne I believe is just...there. Like, physically there to narrate and then die, likely because players did not enjoy how he became leader when they did most of the work.

 

Isn't he pretty much quite liked ?

 

And Rox for example is not an overly impressive character (Appart from the Garm thing)

Edited October 27, 2021 by Dawanarth.4601

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

You're applying real life reasoning to a fantasy world, and its flawed reasoning on top of that.

 

The Asura don't care about gender beyond making progeny. Up until interacting with the other races alot in recent times, we don't even have evidence there was notable apperance or behavoral differences between the two genders in the past, and most of their clothing and armors are unisex. Their idea of attraction is stuff like, how long someone's ears are, or how big their brain is.

 

Charr don't care about gender outside of procreation either, especially since they don't raise families together. A sire is just a sire, and a dam is just a dam, and all Charr are either civilians fueling their warmachine, or soldiers.

 

Human men are almost impossible to make ugly, and are portayed largely as highly attractive prettyboys. This is especially because many Krytans we know are nobles to begin with (roughly one-third of all player characters, for example). You may not like how this is, but a very significant population of the world does.

 

Norn don't differentiate between men and women for the most part, outside of the Svanir. They usually refer to each other as mates instead of husband or wife, and their viability is more about how good of a hunter they are. And the Svanir have their reason for being sexist, which is heavily rooted in their history. In fact, Norn have some of the skimpiest dressed men in the game, all with strong builds and often with body art like tattoos as well.

 

Sylvari don't have reproductive organs, and men in their society is purely a social construct.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Astralporing.1957]

55 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

You're assuming that the Khan-Ur had any daughters to be counted among the claimants to his throne, their possible existence cannot be verified.  

Like i said, it is obviously (heh) only purely accidental, that the only children he acknowledged and gave major military command (and the "Imperator" titles) were male. And, before you ask, yes, charr history apparently does mention other bloodlines that could trace their direct ancestry from Khan-Ur, but those were simply never in a position to act on that, due to lack of abovementioned military support.

 

55 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Next your assuming that due to the alleged requirement that only a male heir take the title of Khan-Ur that females couldn't serve a soldiers. 

Oh, females definitely could serve as soldiers. What seems telling is the apparent lack of them at the very top however.

[Dawanarth.4601]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Oh, females definitely could serve as soldiers. What seems telling is the apparent lack of them at the very top however.

Wasn't that due to the Kalla Scorchrazor having proven the place of the female Charr on the battlefield ? Was Khan-Ur's death before or after that ?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I think the OP is looking too hard for misandry that they are overlooking the fact that the writers push even traditional female character flaws on the female cast, not just the traditional male character flaws on the male cast.

The Svanir are misogynist, but it is because Jora killed her brother, Svanir. It is a matter of old hatred that would not be present if Jora had turned as well. Which is all very ironic given that Jormag is definitely not male.

The Flame Legion are just a hyper expression of the Charr culture at large.  But as of now in the story they've normalized with the rest of the legions, it's just that the Charr culture is so militaristic in general that it pushes even it's females into typical male behavior patterns. But that has more to do with gender mattering less overall in Charr culture.  Being a Charr comes first. Charr above all after all. 

Whereas with the Olmakhan they moved to more of a family based structure. Even there though I did not get the feeling that the Olmakhan moved to gender roles and that gender itself still took a backseat to being a Charr.