Follow Square Enix on Banning Content Clears for Gold, Please ANET

[Falson.5284]

21 hours ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

Because how others play the game effects everyone, it is a MMORPG not a Single Player Online RPG. When people pay for raid clears, it inspires others to do so and thus runs for the average individual getting into raids becomes lesser and lesser. Earning your way through the game should be encouraged while paying your way should be discouraged.

Earning your way has always been the core fundamental of any MMORPG, We should not forget that.

Dude, with the prices they charge it's really not an issue. They may advertise all the time but I promise you the fraction of the population actually willing and able to pay is small. Paying for your raid clears to get legendary armor or achievements multiples the cost by something like 10. You're making a bigger issue out of this than it needs to be. And again, it doesn't affect you because you have no way of knowing who paid and who did it themselves. If it makes you feel better just pretend that everyone played the content exactly how you think they should have, even though guild wars 2 has always been, at least in theory, play how you want.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Hitlit.7630

[Lion.6590]

They didn't ban the content clear sellers, they simply prohibited advertising on the party finder (LFG) which I agree it should be done here too. There was a lot of people including content clear sellers advertising their stuff on the party finder, this was creating a pollution in the tool. I do believe GW2 should do the same, but not ban the practice.

While I don't like the practice of selling content clears, it is impossible to prevent it. FFXIV has some checks on the mechanics that requires everyone to be alive else, someone gets target twice causing a wipe, but even with that people still share their accounts with the sellers who clear for them. GW2 does not have that and the content can be cleared with less than 10 players, so as you see, to prevent that Arenanet would need to do much more than just completely ban it from the game.

 

[Chichimec.9364]

On 10/30/2021 at 12:47 PM, MikeG.6389 said:

While there, ban the use of portals in JPs in the spirit of earning those achievements naturally. At least that would be technically doable.

 

On 10/30/2021 at 12:52 PM, Dravvi.3146 said:

That I also support yeah, tbh theres really no need for portals for JP's. ..Just make an asura.

This exchange highlights for me the OP's obliviousness to the issues other people face. Personally I've never done a raid and have never even thought about paying folks to carry me through one. I get my leggy armor through WvW. Atm, I have a full set of heavy and of light leggy armor and have just started working on the medium set. So I don't need to do raids to get such armor.

Jumping puzzles are a different thing though. They frequently come up in dailies and have been required several times in the Return To episodes. As a 73 year old with a number of physical issues I have a lot of difficulty in doing jps, even the simpler ones. "Just make an asura" will not help me with that. So I rely on mesmers when I need to do a jp and will tip them when I can as a tangible way of saying thank you. Heck, when we had to do the jp in Grothmar Valley as part of the Return to the Icebrood Saga Prologue, there were four mesmers working together to relay folks through the various braziers that had to be lit. That time I tipped them one gold apiece because I would never have been able to do that one on my own. Their help made it possible for me to complete the required achievement and I was grateful for it.

So I have no issues with people paying for help with raids since I gave the mesmers gold as a thank you for getting me through the Grothmar jp. And I have no sympathy for the OP who is just one more in the seemingly endless series of posters on this forum demanding that Anet change the game to force all the rest of us to play the game the way the poster thinks it should be played. OP, if you don't want to pay for raids, don't. If you don't want to use portals for jps, then don't. Thankfully though, you have neither the right nor the power to force the rest of us to play the way you think this game should be played.

[Obtena.7952]

On 10/30/2021 at 3:05 PM, Dravvi.3146 said:

I strongly oppose this however, as it makes earning your own keep very trivial.

Yes, you do ... but that's not relevant to how the game works. If how someone "earns their own keep" affects YOU ... that's not a game problem, that's a you issue. That logic doesn't even make sense unless you want to explain how someone exchanging gold as a compliment for getting help impacts you from a game perspective. 

I mean, if you want to actually STOP this practice ... then it's time to find a whole bunch of similarly minded people as your self, offer the same services people want to be paid to do ... and do it for FREE to put them out of business. Obviously there is some reason people are willing to pay for this. If no one would pay for the help, then the help wouldn't exist in the first place. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[firedragon.8953]

Is your gaming experience lessened by those who pay for content clears? Competitive modes in this game are very standardized and fair as far as the need to "clear content". GW2 is probably the best in the industry when it comes to that.

Are people making gold off selling these clears lessening your experience? Again, you can literally buy gold easily directly through Arena Net at a more "time-efficient" rate than most things.

Honestly, I think RMT or "pay for clears" is pretty silly, because why would I pay extra so that I don't have to play the game? I also think official "boosts" or "skips" that game companies sell is such a strange concept, too. But this is now a thing in the MMO industry I guess...

I get it, some content is hard to clear (either because of difficulty or lack of popularity?), but there is a lot of other content in this game and very little is "required" to reach end game (whatever you consider that to be). GW2, unlike treadmill-content marathons (FFXIV is like this btw), is pretty good about not "gating" people on content. Doing some content first makes other things easier maybe, but it is quite rare to completely stop someone from doing it.

 

57 minutes ago, nightmare.5618 said:

the RMT in GW2 just made raiding even more dead than it is ,I heard raiding in EU is barely holding on compare to NA which is completely dead raiding server. . 

The sad truth is this isn't a result of RMT, but rather that the majority of the player base here do not like doing raids, and some people want to get the legendary armor offered by raids. If raid content was done in such a way that it was more "accessible" to the GW2 community, RMT wouldn't have a chance because...well, people would actually enjoy doing it. RMT didn't cause the raid situation, it is the result of the raid situation. Hopefully Anet's plan with Strike Missions in EoD turns out to be the sweet spot and becomes a game mode loved by many.

Guess what I am trying to point out here is, why let something like this ruin your fun? Some may think it is "unfair", but basically that means you are wishing you didn't have to "play the game". Just enjoy playing content. If Anet decides to make "content clears" a bannable offense, that's fine, if not, that's fine. That's how I see it anyway. Why let these things bother you in this kind of game?

Edit: Also, banning mesmer portals in JP is also one of the craziest things I've heard. A mesmer running a JP with people is sometimes the best open world group content you can find in game. I love it! I also toss a coin (or two) to my mesmer, although I was never told I must pay or anything. I find this amazing! You know, player run events and services inside an MMO... Fantastic!

Edited November 1, 2021 by firedragon.8953

[Xainou.1502]

The only person ruining the content is you for yourself.

I'm not sure where this weird gatekeeping stems from but there's nothing wrong with people buying a run if they chose to do so.

Yet you somehow feel threatened by that while you earned it.

[nightmare.5618]

3 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Is your gaming experience lessened by those who pay for content clears? Competitive modes in this game are very standardized and fair as far as the need to "clear content". GW2 is probably the best in the industry when it comes to that.

Are people making gold off selling these clears lessening your experience? Again, you can literally buy gold easily directly through Arena Net at a more "time-efficient" rate than most things.

Honestly, I think RMT or "pay for clears" is pretty silly, because why would I pay extra so that I don't have to play the game? I also think official "boosts" or "skips" that game companies sell is such a strange concept, too. But this is now a thing in the MMO industry I guess...

I get it, some content is hard to clear (either because of difficulty or lack of popularity?), but there is a lot of other content in this game and very little is "required" to reach end game (whatever you consider that to be). GW2, unlike treadmill-content marathons (FFXIV is like this btw), is pretty good about not "gating" people on content. Doing some content first makes other things easier maybe, but it is quite rare to completely stop someone from doing it.

 

The sad truth is this isn't a result of RMT, but rather that the majority of the player base here do not like doing raids, and some people want to get the legendary armor offered by raids. If raid content was done in such a way that it was more "accessible" to the GW2 community, RMT wouldn't have a chance because...well, people would actually enjoy doing it. RMT didn't cause the raid situation, it is the result of the raid situation. Hopefully Anet's plan with Strike Missions in EoD turns out to be the sweet spot and becomes a game mode loved by many.

Guess what I am trying to point out here is, why let something like this ruin your fun? Some may think it is "unfair", but basically that means you are wishing you didn't have to "play the game". Just enjoy playing content. If Anet decides to make "content clears" a bannable offense, that's fine, if not, that's fine. That's how I see it anyway. Why let these things bother you in this kind of game?

Edit: Also, banning mesmer portals in JP is also one of the craziest things I've heard. A mesmer running a JP with people is sometimes the best open world group content you can find in game. I love it! I also toss a coin (or two) to my mesmer, although I was never told I must pay or anything. I find this amazing! You know, player run events and services inside an MMO... Fantastic!

 I am not blaming RTM for anything happened in GW2 ,I am just stating the negatives from RMT in MMOs including this game , I already know why raid is dead, barely anyone play raids in GW2 and it is taken advantage by RMT already as the advertised way to get clears as u almost never find a group to play with u ,that is an example of RMT that negative impact from players playing the content they want to try. I already said it is pointless to care about RMT in this game when it only affects dead content. And I believe gatekeeping is one of the most stupidest things in gaming ever ,not just MMOs. 

[Teratus.2859]

Always hated run selling, it used to be an even bigger problem back in the day with dungeons.

It took me a long time to get through all the Arah paths because literally every LFG back then was selling the run instead of actual groups looking for players.
It made finding people who wanted to do the run very difficult because most would just cave in and pay for it instead, quicker.. easier and no waiting around trying to find a group who actually wanted the experience of running the paths.

I used to be very resentful of these kinds of players back then to the point where I stopped playing dungeon content for years just because I wanted nothing to do with them.
It's sad to see this is still going on with raiding as well, I agree with the OP that having people buy their way through raids cheapens the unique rewards of the content, especially rewards that are supposed to be extremely prestigious like Leggy Armour.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Congrats, OP, you got one.

[Tukaram.8256]

Sounds about the same as the portal run sellers in GW.  People would offer to form a party, and one person would run to the next town, and the entire party would teleport - to open a new town.  It honestly never bothered me how people got to Lion's Arch.  It does not affect my gameplay at all. 😎

[Blocki.4931]

Really don't see the point. Let people selling runs make some money from it and let those with money get stuff for less effort. A market formed around a service, nothing wrong with that.

I doubt they would change their stance after explicitly allowing it at your own risk. This isn't RMT.

[Lacdanon.1483]

I don't think Anet share this mindset, for example look at the slap in the face to anyone who made Slumbering Transcendence and then played the horrible AT system to turn it into Trancendance....not only can you upgrade it for free now but they are basically giving away a legendary amulet from the return to, something that is useless to anyone who made Transcendence.

 

I would love to see the buy in clears removed and instead see paid training runs, give the vets an incentive to pass on knowledge without just dragging someone's dead corpse through a raid. 

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Banning advertising boosting is the right call in my opinion. I view it the same as the pvp boosting ring that just got busted. Raid sellers are killing raid content for their personal gain because the people who buy the clears do not get better at the game and learn to enjoy raids for the challenge they give. This causes people to stop raiding after getting their rewards and causes the metrics to go down. Low metrics means no more raids. So the raid community no longer gets content they enjoy, while the raid sellers make bank.

[Zok.4956]

On 10/30/2021 at 7:52 PM, Dravvi.3146 said:

That I also support yeah, tbh theres really no need for portals for JP's. ..Just make an asura.

Well, I am glad that GW2 is designed as a cooperative game in PvE and that, because of this, a lot of players help other players (with or without gold payment/tips) to  overcome "challenging" (for those players) content.

The best memories I have from the time when I was a new GW2 player (some years ago) was, that other players, strangers,  helped me when I was struggeling with content/encounters. Later then I made a mesmer, just to help other players in JPs.

If you do not want to play a game where players are helping other players, GW2 is maybe too cooperative for your playstyle.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Banning advertising boosting is the right call in my opinion. I view it the same as the pvp boosting ring that just got busted. Raid sellers are killing raid content for their personal gain because the people who buy the clears do not get better at the game and learn to enjoy raids for the challenge they give. This causes people to stop raiding after getting their rewards and causes the metrics to go down. Low metrics means no more raids. So the raid community no longer gets content they enjoy, while the raid sellers make bank.

If raiders want to 'save' raid content from sellers, then they should be banding together and offering the same services the sellers are ... FOR FREE. 

[Moradorin.6217]

On 10/30/2021 at 10:40 AM, costepj.5120 said:

You can ban advertising in LFG but all that will do is drive the practice underground. There's no way for anet to police such a policy so why bother?

Just because making something illegal (same thing) alone doesn't totally eliminate it happening is a bad reason not to have a law/rule that has a threat of penalty. The idea is to discourage behavior and give authority a grounds to take action that is undstood and defined so people know its not allowed and know what the risk is. The game has a reporting system and it does work when used and when Anet agrees with the report and feels action is warranted. Its just that selling achievements is allowed right now.

 

I don't know 100% how I feel about it tbh. I dont like people selling raids, achivements. At the same time I do like people doing HP trains, porting people to MPs/HPs, offering help for JPs etc and wouldnt want to make players affraid to do those kinds of things. So it seems like maybe I would support a ban on selling raids and achivements, etc but I wouldnt want to stop people from offering help doing achievements. I really only dislike the outright selling of them. That is, I think its very beneficial when people offer help to others even when they hope to get a tip. I just dont like when its a pre-negotiated agreement for payment. That is, I feel like its good for the game when people help eachother and people being able to tip and reward each other seems important, but the people just selling things like Coalescence, raid armor, etc I could seriously live without. I think they are a kitten.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Moradorin.6217]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

If raiders want to 'save' raid content from sellers, then they should be banding together and offering the same services the sellers are ... FOR FREE. 

I think allot of the raid community already does. In the sense, that many guilds and even lfgs offer training runs that cover the content needed for all the achievements. Its just not a pure carry for payment situation. Also TBH those same people who are selling raids would end up basically offering it for "Tips" imo which is free to those that choose not to pay. I would find a more legitimate practice and I think it would mean less people offering raid carry services, but Im sure people would still offer it. Just like offering JP ports for tips is commonplace.

Some people enjoy repeating content quickly with smaller numbers which gives them spots for people they can carry. At least some of those people will still want the fun/challenge and will still end up being open to carrying in hopes of payment if selling was banned. However, I suspect some will disagree.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

I think allot of the raid community already does. In the sense, that many guilds and even lfgs offer training runs that cover the content needed for all the achievements. Its just not a pure carry for payment situation. Also TBH those same people who are selling raids would end up basically offering it for "Tips" imo which is free to those that choose not to pay. I would find a more legitimate practice and I think it would mean less people offering raid carry services, but Im sure people would still offer it. Just like offering JP ports for tips is commonplace.

Some people enjoy repeating content quickly with smaller numbers which gives them spots for people they can carry. At least some of those people will still want the fun/challenge and will still end up being open to carrying in hopes of payment if selling was banned. However, I suspect some will disagree.

Right, this goes to my point ... if this is already happening to some degree, the claim the poster was making that sellers are 'killing raid content' makes no sense. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Moradorin.6217]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Right, this goes to my point ... if this is already happening to some degree, the claim the poster was making that sellers are 'killing raid content' makes no sense. 

Im not sure I would personally say I think they are killing raiding, but I do find it hard to see it as beneficial. I think selling raids is clearly negative and does hurt raiding and increases the impression that raids are inaccessible content for average players. An example of this impact can be seen when you talk to people trying to get into raiding. They almost always mention that all they see in lfg are people selling raids or XP that require KP. I know raiding is more accessible than many seem to think, but I also see how certain things could be changed that might improve raiding by making it seem less intimidating. If those same raid sellers had to settle for tips they would be compelled to offer training/open non-KP runs to find people who might tip them. In other words, either then would move on and find better things to do than sit and sell raids or they would spend that time doing things that help people actually learn raiding in order to stay challenged and make extra gold from raiding. I personally, am not overly concerned about this, but I also feel like raid selling being beneficial is pretty questionable at best.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Moradorin.6217
typo

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Im not sure I would personally say I think they are killing raiding, but I do find it hard to see it as beneficial. I think selling raids is clearly negative and does hurt raiding and increases the impression that raids are inaccessible content for average players. An example of this impact can be seen when you talk to people trying to get into raiding. They almost always mention that all they see in lfg are people selling raids or XP that require KP. I know raiding is more accessible than many seem to think, but I also see how certain things could be changed that might improve raiding by making it seem less intimidating. If those same raid sellers had to settle for tips they would be compelled to offer training/open non-KP runs to find people who might tip them. In other words, either then would move on and find better things to do than sit and sell raids or they would spend that time doing things that help people actually learn raiding in order to stay challenged and make extra gold from raiding. I personally, am not overly concerned about this, but I also feel like raid selling being beneficial is pretty questionable at best.

Oh I don't think it's beneficial either ... I just know how to put these people out of business without Anet coming in and doing a whole bunch of ineffective policing from there end to stop it. 

[Sobx.1758]

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

If raiders want to 'save' raid content from sellers, then they should be banding together and offering the same services the sellers are ... FOR FREE. 

What even is this weird backwards take? It plays right against the reasons some people would want the content clear sales to stop in the frist place. "just do it more and for free" isn't changing anything here.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

19 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What even is this weird backwards take? It plays right against the reasons some people would want the content clear sales to stop in the frist place. "just do it more and for free" isn't changing anything here.

Nothing backwards about it ... if people don't want others to sell clears as badly as the thread indicates, then if they offer to do those clear for free, they steal the business from the sellers.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Nothing backwards about it ... if people don't want others to sell clears ... then if they offer to do those clear for free, they steal their business. 

It is backwards and it seems you've lost the reasoning behind this thread while focusing solely on the "sell" part. Doing the same thing except for free changes nothing about the situation that's undesirable for people that don't want that in the game. Still litters the lfg. Still doesn't push people to learn the content. Still isn't there "to play the content", but instead to just "get carried through it because free rewards".

Edited November 1, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

It is backwards and it seems you've lost the reasoning behind this thread while focusing solely on the "sell" part. Doing the same thing except for free changes nothing about the situation that's undesirable by people that don't want that in the game.

Well, the reasoning behind this thread was nonsense to begin with because the OP wants to impose his idea of how to play on others. 

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, the reasoning behind this thread was nonsense to begin with because the OP wants to impose his idea of how to play on others. 

Cool, it's understandable you can think so. But as far as I see, you were proposing that in the thread made by op instead of arguing whether or not it's reasonable. So your proposed "solution" isn't a solution to anything mentioned here. As much as you're free to think this is a non-issue and that's perfectly fine, "doing the same for free" does nothing as a response to this thread.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Sobx.1758