Aegis is bad for the game and it should be removed imo.

[zealex.9410]

Yes, i said it, i think aegis is very problematic not only because firebrand has monopoly over group based aegis nor because its pretty mindlessly spammable but also because chrono had smth very similarly broken in distort share and despite the higher dificulty of optimal excecution it was removed (and rightfully so).

It would be better for the game if guard lost monopoly of protection and aegis for sure like it was good for the game that mesmer lost monopoly of quickness and alacrity post hot, however, aegis is simply not a good mechanic for the game, its either gonna be so incosistent that will be unreliable therefor a niche gimmick, or spammable and busted or convenient available for all big scary moments and trivialise hard fights (like distort share did)

I think protection should be granded to more specs and classes and aegis should be flat out removed because its simply too strong.

Edited November 26, 2021 by zealex.9410

[Infusion.7149]

That's sledgehammer balancing to remove a boon.

The mechanist is getting AoE aegis on Crisis Zone (40s cooldown), well of precog (30s cooldown) and Signet of Inspiration (20s cooldown) on inspiration chrono  shares aegis when traited, etc.

There's really one main offender right now and it's mantra of solace , with its 12s base cooldown and AoE aegis with no investment. If you run mace (15s cooldown) or shield (20s cooldown) on guardian both require a damage loss ; same goes for "Advance" (30s cooldown). Shield of Courage is 60s cooldown, Virtue of Courage is 45s cooldown , Tome of Courage (and therefore its associated Unbroken Lines) is 75 cooldown.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Infusion.7149
extra '

[zealex.9410]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

That's sledgehammer balancing to remove a boon.

The mechanist is getting AoE aegis on Crisis Zone (40s cooldown), well of precog (30s cooldown) and Signet of Inspiration (20s cooldown) on inspiration chrono  shares aegis when traited, etc.

There's really one main offender right now and it's mantra of solace , with its 12s base cooldown and AoE aegis with no investment. If you run mace (15s cooldown) or shield (20s cooldown) on guardian both require a damage loss ; same goes for "Advance" (30s cooldown). Shield of Courage is 60s cooldown, Virtue of Courage is 45s cooldown , Tome of Courage (and therefore it's associated Unbroken Lines) is 75 cooldown.

Tbf fb just has all the tomes so i dont get why you wouldnt use them to secure a smoother clear. But yeah theres is alternatives but compaired to firebrand thet fall very far behind. I also dont think they should be buffed, i think aegis being the oh kitten big cd button is the best posible form that boon can and should exist ingame.

Edited November 26, 2021 by zealex.9410

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, zealex.9410 said:

Tbf fb just has all the tomes so i dont get why you wouldnt use them to secure a smoother clear. But yeah theres is alternative but compaired to guardian thet fall bery far behind. I also dont think they should be buffed i think aegis being the oh kitten big cd button is the best posible form that boon can and should exist ingame.

You say smoother clear, what do you mean , in raid?

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

i think aegis being the oh kitten big cd button is the best posible form that boon can and should exist ingame.

blocking 1 attack is never going to be a "oh kitten big CD button"... it'd need some serious rebalancing

[zealex.9410]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You say smoother clear, what do you mean , in raid?

In any content, tske for example dps firebrands, i see some ppl say dps firebrand doesnt have any support and i need to take a moment to process that. If you see that the group is struggling and that some ppl might go down wouldnt you use your supportive skills even if it meant a momentary loss in your personal dps?

Or in the less likely case that more dps is needed i think it would be apropriate for a support to try snd squeeze abit more dmg.

[zealex.9410]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

blocking 1 attack is never going to be a "oh kitten big CD button"... it'd need some serious rebalancing

Its already in need of some serious rebalancing imo so it was just an idea.

[Puck.3697]

8 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

Its already in need of some serious rebalancing imo so it was just an idea.

tbh. i can say the fact Every boon is 100% Uptime is a problem across the board... ALl the boons need to be dropped in uptime realistically.

 

[Zenith.7301]

You can remove aegis and guardian would still dominate because nobody else can consistently apply stability or resolution either.

 

Previously druid with elite spirit could generate high stability uptime, but that was deleted and now Guardian reigns supreme in stability and aegis, and resolution isn't even given to a group by anyone else besides guardian...

[Infusion.7149]

25 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

In any content, tske for example dps firebrands, i see some ppl say dps firebrand doesnt have any support and i need to take a moment to process that. If you see that the group is struggling and that some ppl might go down wouldnt you use your supportive skills even if it meant a momentary loss in your personal dps?

Or in the less likely case that more dps is needed i think it would be apropriate for a support to try snd squeeze abit more dmg.

If you say any content then it is an incorrect assessment. Channeled blocks are better in PVP and WvW especially against multi-hit attacks otherwise you are shredded by any fast multi-hit attack such as photon blitz, zealot's defense, axe auto on warrior, whirling wrath, shackling wave, soul spiral, ghastly claws, rapid fire, or whirling axe. If a skill does block and damage at the same time it is unusual unless the block is a reflect , I think the only exceptions is scrapper hammer (Shock Shield) as most skills either do nearly no damage or block and then retaliate (mace on guard, sword on mesmer , mace on warrior, GS on ranger , staff on rev). That's what makes mantra of solace strong in PVE and "Advance!" strong in general. Mitigating damage costs you no damage in the case of instant cast aegis.

 

[Obtena.7952]

I love the "if I can't have it, no one should" mentality. I also love that Guardian will never lose Aegis. Even the idea that would be considered is inconceivable. 

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I love the "if I can't have it, no one should" mentality. I also love that Guardian will never lose Aegis. Even the idea that would be considered is inconceivable. 

tbh its very much this mentality.

People question mark the concept that Every boon being 100% uptime is absolutely fine but aegis isnt, Like Boon Uptimes Drastic Increases since Core is a Major part of the power creep in PvE.  your entire Speccs. Elites and more are balanced on the pinnicle of these boons now because Devs have to account for how your proffessions gonna play with 100% boon uptime. Something that only affects Instanced PvE Content.

we have situations where builds like condi weaver actively become Clunkier by not having 100% Alacrity uptime.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

tbh its very much this mentality.

People question mark the concept that Every boon being 100% uptime is absolutely fine but aegis isnt, Like Boon Uptimes Drastic Increases since Core is a Major part of the power creep in PvE.  your entire Speccs. Elites and more are balanced on the pinnicle of these boons now because Devs have to account for how your proffessions gonna play with 100% boon uptime. Something that only affects Instanced PvE Content.

we have situations where builds like condi weaver actively become Clunkier by not having 100% Alacrity uptime.

I think you are right that many boons shouldn't be 100% uptime (IMO, a massive trivialization of a key game feature) but I don't believe the problem with Aegis is boon uptime, it's about the frequency of its application. Just as a thought experiment, what one is better?

1. Aegis lasts 1 second ... but can be applied every second consistently

2. Aegis lasts 60 seconds ... but can only be applied once ever minute

The coverage isn't the problem and that's what Boon Uptime is about. It's the frequency of application that pushes Aegis into broken territory. 

To be fair, I think it should be very hard to share/get Aegis but to balance that out, it needs to change to some kind of counter system. Like, a single Aegis application has 3 blocks, no expiration. Good players are going to use those smartly in combination with dodges, other blocks/evades. Bad ones are just going to lose them quickly to a breeze or a hit from a white mob.  

Edited November 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Infusion.7149]

An aegis that lasts 60 seconds but can be applied every minute is useless against trash mobs or anything that hits more than once every couple seconds. That's why mantra of solace is more of an issue than say "Advance" or well of precognition , there's no tradeoff for taking it whatsoever.

The other reason mantra of solace is so strong right now in PVE is because if you have 2-3 firebrands you can have near 100% block of all major attacks if a boss only hits for high damage every couple of seconds as the ammo cooldown is 12s before alacrity but the cooldown between charges is 1s. Your scholar uptime will be higher if you are running power comp and if you aren't running power and the attack has a CC involved it means your party damage is higher. With alacrity and one firebrand alone it is enough to trivialize any attack meant to be dodged (since dodge is roughly the same cooldown).

[otto.5684]

7 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

Yes, i said it, i think aegis is very problematic not only because firebrand has monopoly over group based aegis nor because its pretty mindlessly spammable but also because chrono had smth very similarly broken in distort share and despite the higher dificulty of optimal excecution it was removed (and rightfully so).

It would be better for the game if guard lost monopoly of protection and aegis for sure like it was good for the game that mesmer lost monopoly of quickness and alacrity post hot, however, aegis is simply not a good mechanic for the game, its either gonna be so incosistent that will be unreliable therefor a niche gimmick, or spammable and busted or convenient available for all big scary moments and trivialise hard fights (like distort share did)

I think protection should be granded to more specs and classes and aegis should be flat out removed because its simply too strong.

Maybe, but how are you going to balance everything else? Aegis is integral to guardian in PvE. And this is a significant amount of dev time which is not really needed to address a non-major issue.

[Buran.3796]

   Aegis works well in PvE and in PvP/WvW had it synergies nerfed enough to not be that great (a build devoted to improve Aegis is not as good in trems of sustain as other focused in healing using symbols or just ccing the foes, and anyway if you use traits and skills to improve your Aegis and spam them you will lose so much damage that will become useless in roaming and small fights. Also, for groups in WvW team stability and cleansing is more important that randomly block an attack (which is oftenly wasted blocking an auto attack instead of a big burst).

[LadyKitty.6120]

In all honesty, Kitty would kinda prefer to have aegis only block the health loss+condi application part of the hit (like normal hits and Deimos' Mind Crush as block is required in CM) and not CCs (like fears and MAMA's Spin2Win, VG's blue ports could also count as forced teleport).
We already have stability for anti-CC so removing anti-CC from aegis would require guardians to invest in BOTH stability and aegis if they wanted to fully skip mechs and that in turn would cause a huge opportunity cost to get even close to aegis' current effect.
While at it, stability could be extended to include Blind in the effects it'd prevent as Blind is kinda a CC if used on big hits.

[TwiceDead.1963]

Take away one, Aegis, Stability, Heals or Quickness. Get nothing in return because the remaining 3 are still strong enough in any combination.

[zealex.9410]

8 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

tbh its very much this mentality.

People question mark the concept that Every boon being 100% uptime is absolutely fine but aegis isnt, Like Boon Uptimes Drastic Increases since Core is a Major part of the power creep in PvE.  your entire Speccs. Elites and more are balanced on the pinnicle of these boons now because Devs have to account for how your proffessions gonna play with 100% boon uptime. Something that only affects Instanced PvE Content.

we have situations where builds like condi weaver actively become Clunkier by not having 100% Alacrity uptime.

I dont like the boon state in gw2 in general but the problem here is boon monopoly and not necessarily boon uptime. I prefer the way buffs work in other games where they are hugely influential but their uptime is much less.

However i think its easier to balance around having 100% uptime on might, quickness, ala, fury because these enhance the players. The problem with prot aegis and stab, and reflects is that they negate the encounters mechanics so how do you balance encounters around these effects? Mechanics will either ignore these so they are useless or they wont and they will be insanely powerful.

[Ragnar.4257]

Meanwhile, FB in PvP completely unusable.

There is more than just PvE.

[zealex.9410]

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I love the "if I can't have it, no one should" mentality. I also love that Guardian will never lose Aegis. Even the idea that would be considered is inconceivable. 

I dont get this mentality, esp when i can just make a firebrand and have it, like i had a chrono when that was busted. 

[Linnael.1069]

4 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Meanwhile, FB in PvP completely unusable.

There is more than just PvE.

Yeah firebrand is busted OP in wvw tho so it’s overwhelmingly op in 2/3 modes and core guard and DH are both in the meta in spvp. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Linnael.1069

[Ragnar.4257]

1 minute ago, Linnael.1069 said:

Yeah firebrand is busted OP in wvw tho so it’s overwhelmingly op in 2/3 modes and core guard and DH are both in the meta in spvp. 

And yet they have the exact same mechanics in all 3 modes, just different numerical values attached.

Which indicates that the issue is not a core mechanical problem with Aegis, but simply one of tuning.

[BobbyT.7192]

2 hours ago, LadyKitty.6120 said:

In all honesty, Kitty would kinda prefer to have aegis only block the health loss+condi application part of the hit (like normal hits and Deimos' Mind Crush as block is required in CM) and not CCs (like fears and MAMA's Spin2Win, VG's blue ports could also count as forced teleport).
We already have stability for anti-CC so removing anti-CC from aegis would require guardians to invest in BOTH stability and aegis if they wanted to fully skip mechs and that in turn would cause a huge opportunity cost to get even close to aegis' current effect.
While at it, stability could be extended to include Blind in the effects it'd prevent as Blind is kinda a CC if used on big hits.

I like the idea, like there is 2 boons that deal with conditons. So narrowing the functionality of aegis wouldn't be a bad idea.

I would go a step further and say have conditions pass through aegis as well. You can block and prevent that strike damage, but here some bleeding. Hope you packed some condi cleanse. (It guardian, so of course they do).

 

[Obtena.7952]

13 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

I dont get this mentality, esp when i can just make a firebrand and have it, like i had a chrono when that was busted. 

Well, the mentality I have is easy to have, because it's based on reality. Guardian isn't going to lose Aegis. Aegis isn't going to be removed from the game.