Trailblazer - the joke needs to end

[allshallperish.4620]

full trail is deffo not optimal for roaming i disagree in the need to remove it.  There are far more important issues then AreanaNet could and should address, hopefully in the near future.

[Mattmatt.4962]

5 hours ago, allshallperish.4620 said:

full trail is deffo not optimal for roaming i disagree in the need to remove it.  There are far more important issues then AreanaNet could and should address, hopefully in the near future.

True o' both statement, yet:

 

- because full trailblazer (with trait rune food) can overcap the condi duration (and thus making it not optimal) is actually proof of the stat beeing overpowered.

 

(I remember good old times when you actually had to time your poison application to ruins ennemy's healing, now you can casually launch 5+sec poisons. But thats off topic and not due to TB alone)

 

- because its not a top priority issue doesnt mean it should be overlooked. Especially considering how little work it is to automatically swap TB to let say Dire when you enter WVW (just quick proposition from the top of my head)

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Isn't it Marauder that everyone's wearing while roaming? I must be imagining things..

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Isn't it Marauder that everyone's wearing while roaming? I must be imagining things..

Depends what you meet while roaming, if it's only soulbeasts pewpew from 2k range then the answer "everyone runs Marauder while roaming" is correct indeed.
There are times when you only meet power builds like soulbeasts, dh, teefs and warriors and other times you'll only meet condi revs, condi teefs, condi druids, condi necros, etc. It all depends on your luck I guess.

[bluberblasen.9684]

8 hours ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

lol - When I solo roam, I use a condi renegade with a full kit of trailblazer gear. With that, I can comfortably take down sentries, supply camps, and shrines. When I run into enemy players with that build, 95 times out of a hundred I end up dying in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 match up. I really am that old and slow.  On Tier 3 or 4 matches though, I only die about 50% of the time. So the trailblazer gear is not some kind of invulnerable tank. It would be nice if that gear made me unkillable but I suspect that the combat outcome actually comes down to the skill of the respective players, as it should.

 

You die less in a tier 3 or 4 matchup vs other roamer(s)?

That's a lie.. The lower the tier the better the roamers because less blobbing/ less zergs

[Chichimec.9364]

4 hours ago, bluberblasen.9684 said:

You die less in a tier 3 or 4 matchup vs other roamer(s)?

That's a lie.. The lower the tier the better the roamers because less blobbing/ less zergs

roflmao - So you know my own experiences better than I do? Cool! How do you do that? Me, I find the reverse is true. The roamers are more skilled in the higher tiers, probably due in some part to the fact that they have to survive maps with more blogging and zergs. This past year I've been in all the tiers as my server has bounced up and down in the rankings and that's what I've seen. But hey, what do I know as you seem to know what I've experienced better than me?  😹

EDIT: Well, the official cover story is that in a Tier 2 match up this morning I died twice in a 1v1 roamer fight and once when a rando and I got caught in a 2v2 fight. That official story is of course a lie designed to cover up just how powerful the Trailblazer gear actually makes me. No one can know how I single handedly took down a fifty-person boon blob zerg this morning because my heart is pure and Trailblazer stats give me not the strength of 10 but of 10x10. 🙃

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Chichimec.9364

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Posts like this are why gw2 pvp modes are complete and utter trash these days, has been for a while now. Delete this delete that all while mentioning how there's no build diversity currently in the game....ok.

Op instead of coming into the forums raging delete this.....cuz u got stomped by it doesn't fix anything and actually makes things worse when the game has devs like gw2 has which the odd time actually do listen and implement bad changes such as the change u are asking for, they leave traits with 300 sec cds after all. Why not ask for a slight shave to trailblazers specific stats that u feel are a problem vs asking for full deletion, or ask for alteration to a existing stat set to help it counter trailblazers, even for a new set to counter it would be better than asking for a set to be deleted.

If u haven't notice I'll let u in on a little secret, gw2 pvp playerbase bandwagon like no other to the fotm stuff, unfortunately because this is gw2 and it's devs instead of fotm it's fot2yrs. U could ask for deletion of any problem set or builds and whatever stat set or build is most effective comparable to the others most players here will bandwagon to until u have only one build and one set left lol, perfect balance between the sets, builds etc isnt possible, only a certain amount of any balance can be achieved with such dynamic variables a mmo has and on top the gw2 devs are very bad at even trying to reach anything even remotely close to balance so there will always be sets and builds that are outliers compared to the rest until only one set and 1 build exist so.....quit asking to delet $hit.

[Mattmatt.4962]

31 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Things

And yet, stats such as TB have been removed from pvp and no one ever cried that change.

 

But you want better proposal ? No problem

 

What if Anet actually made condi back to what it was and what its supposed to be: "debilitating" instead of another DPS type ?

Why do i not ask for that in the first place ? Been asked for ages by the playerbase, never happened, also requires tons of work. A mere automated stat change take almost no work. More realistic to happen.

 

Also, do you really think that some stat with lets say Power Toughness Primary and precision vital fero secondary would be balanced ? Cause thats basically what TB is to condi

 

PS: the "kitten" in my opening post are selfwritten, not from the bot. Im totally calm and composed about what im asking.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Mattmatt.4962

[Arheundel.6451]

19 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

That's the reason why we now have support comp groups running in roaming, because stability or cleansing is the only thing to combat this. Stupid this game doesn't have diminishing returns on cc, or that cc breakers (on a longer cooldown than cc mind you) don't also give a period of relief, meanwhile you can be chain cc'd to death. No instead you're forced to bring a stability friend as the catch all to fix it. Just yesterday saw a cc war and rev tearing up people. Pretty hard to find a decent solo experience when all you're running into is stealthers, immobilizers, cc'ers, all running with friends, haven't bothered to roam in months and probably never will again.

Don't give up....the best solution I found that works against this circus is to play some sudden death build ( thief-mesmer-ranger-engi), abuse stealth...target located....2s burst and see them cry or never set up foot outside their keep unless heavily supported...

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Yeah, start taking stats away like in sPvP and WvW will become the same clown fiesta.

The problem is that in Feb2020 WvW and PvP were 'balanced' like they were the same fcking thing when they're not. PvP has had 'tweaks' since then but WvW hasn't really outside of gamewide changes.

[Shiyo.3578]

10 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Posts like this are why gw2 pvp modes are complete and utter trash these days, has been for a while now. Delete this delete that all while mentioning how there's no build diversity currently in the game....ok.

Because this game has a gigantic issue of having tons of "diversity" that literally shouldn't exist in a PvP game. Should pet ele/necro and turret eng be strong to increase diversity? No, no one wants to play against that trash, it doesn't belong in PvP.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Because this game has a gigantic issue of having tons of "diversity" that literally shouldn't exist in a PvP game. Should pet ele/necro and turret eng be strong to increase diversity? No, no one wants to play against that trash, it doesn't belong in PvP.

 

It should and could exist 100% BUT it should be reworked so the build actually requires the proper amount risk vs reward as well as ease of use vs effectivness

[moutzaheadin.4029]

Minstrels is by FAR the cheesiest stat set in the game. This is a learn to play issue. 
 

when you have blobs running 80% minstrel support. It’s a boon spam zero skill joke. 
 

sounds like to me you don’t know how to manage your cleanses. Or can’t be bothered with understanding conditions. 

[Mattmatt.4962]

29 minutes ago, moutzaheadin.4029 said:

Minstrels is by FAR the cheesiest stat set in the game. This is a learn to play issue. 
 

when you have blobs running 80% minstrel support. It’s a boon spam zero skill joke. 
 

sounds like to me you don’t know how to manage your cleanses. Or can’t be bothered with understanding conditions. 

Guess you missed the part where i say un run immunity to criple chill immob, cleansing sigil and antitoxin rune. The fact that condi spec can condi-bomb you on very low cd means that no amough of cleanse will save you. There will l always come an unlucky rotation where something is on cd and its gg. And since they re super tanky cause having near berserker tier of damage while having tons of effectiv hp seems reasonable, they can stalh for that "lucky condi round".

 

Again, if its all about l2p, why were similar stats removed from pvp ?

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Mattmatt.4962 said:

And since they re super tanky cause having near berserker tier of damage while having tons of effectiv hp seems reasonable

And since its always fun to repeat what people willfully ignore, berserker tier damage in very specific and limited situations.

The reason such stats been removed in sPvP? Well, those situations just happen to be 1v1 vs fools without cleanse. So there you go.

I still only know of one build that can arguably be considered too much and that has nothing to do with the gear stats and everything to do with torment runes.

[Mattmatt.4962]

5 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The reason such stats been removed in sPvP? Well, those situations just happen to be 1v1 vs fools without cleanse. So there you go.

Do you trully believe that ? Man sometimes people come up with the weirdest argument (lie).

One can totally argue FOR tb, but dont come with such argument, you re not helping your side

[Shiyo.3578]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The reason such stats been removed in sPvP? Well, those situations just happen to be 1v1 vs fools without cleanse. So there you go.

So by your logic, they removed tanky stat combinations from SPvP because of bad players who don't know how to cleanse, and don't balance the game around high end players?

Well....

[Dawdler.8521]

54 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

So by your logic, they removed tanky stat combinations from SPvP because of bad players who don't know how to cleanse, and don't balance the game around high end players?

Well....

Pretty certain yes, because if you read the sPvP forum there is no balance period so the last part cant be possible.

[ysnake.3619]

4 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

And since its always fun to repeat what people willfully ignore, berserker tier damage in very specific and limited situations.

The reason such stats been removed in sPvP? Well, those situations just happen to be 1v1 vs fools without cleanse. So there you go.

I still only know of one build that can arguably be considered too much and that has nothing to do with the gear stats and everything to do with torment runes.

The difference here being is that in sPvP, the whole point is to take the objective with a rather limited amount of players. Usually 1 roamer and a +1er - and hence, tanky stats could REALLY make a difference in holding a node against two full damage players (yes, at times it was way too easy to do that) - but the underlying reason is that in WvW, there are no small objectives to hold and you are not being 1+1 you are beinged 1+X.

 

Now, I am the first one to admit that meeting those annoying Soulbeasts, Revenants, Thieves, core Engis is freaking annoying with the condition spam - all the while taking ridiculously low damage, yes - I concur, these things are annoying to deal with. But so are professions who can dish out a ridiculous amount of Power damage with only a few buttons (I'm looking at you Rangers, Deadeyes and Reapers) - so it is never meant to be easy to counter some professions.

 

Tanky stats DO belong in WvW. Trailblazer is fine, there is one thing you CAN do in WvW that you cannot in PvP: run away from a losing matchup (because in PvP, if you don't take the point, they win see).

Edited December 14, 2021 by ysnake.3619

[Dawdler.8521]

3 minutes ago, ysnake.3619 said:

Now, I am the first one to admit that meeting those annoying Soulbeasts, Revenants, Thieves, core Engis is freaking annoying with the condition spam - all the while taking ridiculously low damage, yes - I concur, these things are annoying to deal with. But so are professions who can dish out a ridiculous amount of Power damage with only a few buttons (I'm looking at you Rangers and Deadeyes) - so it is never meant to be easy to counter some professions.

*squints*

But its the same professions.

[ysnake.3619]

18 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

*squints*

But its the same professions.

ngl, some professions never changed

 

Most of those professions are NOT node-holders in PvP though (unless we are talking about that weird Druid knockback-root build), specifically because they do not have access to both damage and tankiness via Trailblazer. (I still have nightmares of bunker Engis and Elementalists in early GW2 holding the node against 2-3 players, they couldn't kill you, but you couldn't kill them either)

 

 

[Mattmatt.4962]

32 minutes ago, ysnake.3619 said:

Tanky stats DO belong in WvW. Trailblazer is fine, there is one thing you CAN do in WvW that you cannot in PvP: run away from a losing matchup (because in PvP, if you don't take the point, they win see).

"JuSt RuN AwAy BrO", come on, that's litteraly admiting something is wrong.

Serious mode:

What you said about pvp is interesting and true.

 

HOWEVER you blatantly ignored the ratio Damage tankiness that TB offers. If your option is to run away, that means they can kill you. A tank is not supposed to kill you. Or is ministrel underpowered ? (Soldier would fit more but you see what i mean)

The power class you mentionned tends to have some key abilities to dodge (dodge in a large way) (mondial impact hello), condi build ? you have to dodge basically everything.

You can also try and go for counterpressure vs power builds, even with minimal damage of let's say celestial or cav you stand a chance at killing them. Not TB.

 

It's basic math, you should not be able to apply the same tier of damage with ONE AND A HALF offensive stat when power build needs 3 (2for those fancy crit sigil builds (lot of counterplay to that btw)).

[nthmetal.9652]

On 12/12/2021 at 4:50 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

But as I've said before, I fully agree on one condition - all 4 stat gear is removed. Minstrels, marauders, the lot.

As long as Celestial stays, sure 🙂 Though I don't really see the problem with the 4-stat gear. When  you really want top performance in one area, you take 3-stat gear for that area, otherwise, if you're taking a more reasonable approach, take 4-stat gear. I don't really think removing any type of gear will actually improve build variety, though. What the meta dictates will make it to the top.

[ysnake.3619]

7 minutes ago, Mattmatt.4962 said:

"JuSt RuN AwAy BrO", come on, that's litteraly admiting something is wrong.

Serious mode:

What you said about pvp is interesting and true.

 

HOWEVER you blatantly ignored the ratio Damage tankiness that TB offers. If your option is to run away, that means they can kill you. A tank is not supposed to kill you. Or is ministrel underpowered ? (Soldier would fit more but you see what i mean)

The power class you mentionned tends to have some key abilities to dodge (dodge in a large way) (mondial impact hello), condi build ? you have to dodge basically everything.

You can also try and go for counterpressure vs power builds, even with minimal damage of let's say celestial or cav you stand a chance at killing them. Not TB.

 

It's basic math, you should not be able to apply the same tier of damage with ONE AND A HALF offensive stat when power build needs 3 (2for those fancy crit sigil builds (lot of counterplay to that btw)).

I concur, I am Celestial (ab)user and I thoroughly enjoy playing that. Namely Cele Renegade and Cele Weaver - and let's be honest, the latter is the most annoying crap you can 1v1 (because they simply don't die).

Then again, if duels are about, I know that I am losing 9/10 duels on my Cele Renegade against any Power Scrapper. This does not indicate that Berserker is all of a sudden a problem, it's just that their mechanics counter what Renegade wants to do (albeit Renegade is quite easy to play, hard to master type of profession). So, would that make me go strongly on "omg Berserker too stronk pls nerf" - no, not at all, just the core mechanics of that class have so many tools to deal with rather linear output of mine, which is completely acceptable.

 

On Weaver, on the other hand, I am fine going up against anything that's not a Power Reaper (I really HATE "Chill") or Cele Firebrand - against mediocre Firebrands it is a draw, against anyone who is better than me/good they win without me even having a SHOT at killing them (Scrappers are also a draw, but they REALLY need to play their heart out for that).

 

Trailblazer Rangers (and their elites), Thieves, Mesmers - all draws (unless one player is CLEARLY better than the other, then it's only fair that one wins) - it's just fair that THAT'S the case.

 

Condi spam is a completely different subject (although Trailblazer is neatly tied to it) and I concur it is infuriatingly annoying but it is not the issue of Trailblazer per se - it is the fact that Condis can be burst mechanics (which is utterly wrong imho, but that is the core of the game design unfortunately).

 

I view it in a way that in WvW: Trailblazer is there to keep Power builds in check - even though that is not the design philosophy. WvW was never designed in a way that 1v1's matter, even though Roamers (I play solo exclusively) would make you believe that this game is ALL about that 1vX jazz.

Then again, I simply cannot grasp the idea that players (such as yourself, you seem, genuinely, a smart cool guy) could believe that whatever they are playing SHOULD have a shot at defeating everything. Some classes/builds are MADE for those 1v1's and to me, if I have to put in ridiculous amount of effort to defeat someone and I eventually do, that's a feelsgoodman moment right there.

Do I feel good by doing a 5-4-3-2/Enchanted Daggers/Impossible Odds/Sigil of Celerity and Impact on a Scourge roamer? No, I do not - even if they dodge the 5 and all that, 8 seconds later comes Jalis taunt with 4-3-2 and we're back to Shiro again. It is cheap and I dislike defeating someone that way, even though I did not come to terms with "that's just how it is" - it never feels good to defeat someone like that. But me defeating a Scrapper or that kitten adding Mesmer? MMHHMM - I love it.

 

That's the thing, not every class and every build should counter every other class and every other build. Is Trailblazer a forgiving build with already braindead condispam playstyle? Yes, yes it is. But so is fighting someone and getting Longbow 2'd by a Ranger. Unfortunately, GW2 was rarely about how much effort you put into something as there is always a profession out there that can do whatever you're doing with super ease (just venture into Elementalist part of the forums, everyone and their mother are complaining how Elementalist needs to do 7 things when other classes simply have a button that does that - while completely disregarding the fact that THAT'S what makes an Elementalist... an Elementalist).

[Mattmatt.4962]

Power scrapper is another issue ... and yet kinda the same issue: tankiness from maximum damage from the "damage to barrier" trait. Aka, you can build maximum damage and get ridiculous tankiness (you can play around by dodging keu abilities (except grenade but kits are a joke since they somehow have been forgotten during the feb2020 patch and retained all their damage LOL)).

You're basically saying it's rock paper scissor. Yeah i know the game worked this way since the release. Yet when you build specificly to hard counter condis and still get blatantly overpowered by mediocre gameplay, something is wrong.  Dont get me wrong, i'm getting pretty old and my skill is dropping, but not to a point where i cant realize when i've been outplayed.

 

And i dont expect to "beat everything", if some ministrel guardian want to bunker off a camp till reinforcment arrives, i know he will, but the cost he pays for that is to be unable to kill anything (anything with arms :x ) Again what is the cost paid by condi builds in the current state of WvW