Back after a long time and the pain that is HoT

[LesserHellspawn.3160]

I've played Guild Wars 2 from release up to shortly after HoT was released. I had all classes on 80, some ascended gear and a few legendaries. Tried HoT with my Ranger main, hated it, went to level up my Revenant through the personal story, got bored and quit....for 6 years. My guild had fallen apart, dungeons and fractals were no fun anymore, since it was either optimized speed runs or get lost.

 

I took note when PoF was released, but didn't pick the game back up then. I thought the mounts to be too gimmicky and too un-Guild Wars, boy was I wrong there. Mind you, I was still in the stage of comparing Guild Wars 2 with Guild Wars 1, which I loved to bits, and 2 was so different, but 1 so deserted....

 

When End of Dragons was announced, I finally picked the game back up, I had wanted to return to Cantha in like forever.

 

Starting the catch-up I first finished the personal story and central Tyria with my Revenant. Then I tried to pick HoT back up with my Ranger, but the maps were way too frustrating to maneuver, so I skipped over it and played living world, PoF and the Icebrood Saga instead. I hugely enjoyed that content, and once I had the base PoF pets I at least managed to play through the HoT story, to fill that knowledge gap.

 

Since then I've gotten the Beetle and Griffon pets, which helped me to fully explore all PoF and Icebrood maps, got enough hero points to learn the new specialisations and have points left over for half of the next. I didn't look at the new fractal and PvP content yet. I'm slowly working towards my Skyscale saddle.

 

Today I finished the Draconis Mons map and am now staring into the ugly face of the 5 HoT maps again. I still hate getting around there like I did 6 years ago. It needs the masteries to become more accessible, but to get the masteries I have to access it, catch 22. 125 mastery points needed, I have 33, and each new one gets harder and harder to get. I hope my Skyscale will help me, once I have it.

 

By contrast I have enough central Tyria nd PoF mastery points to max all masteries out there. I guess I'll keep working on the Icebrood Saga masteries for now, need 47 points, have 11. One of these days I might be ready to search for a new guild. When that day comes, it'll be a casual guild for sure.

[AliamRationem.5172]

It sounds like your issue is unfamiliarity caused by avoiding the maps.  Mounts should help make it easier (especially the skyscale), but you still have to spend enough time there to learn your way around if you're ever going to be comfortable navigating these maps.

[yoni.7015]

The HoT maps are actually the best maps in the game. They are so much fun and the metas are good. It may take a while to navigate and get familiar with them but it’s worth it. 

[Gibson.4036]

If you can find a good HP train through the HoT zones it will unlock a bunch of waypoints on the way which will make navigation easier.

Also, I found Auric Basin the easiest to navigate at first, and the meta gives a solid chunk of mastery XP each time you do it. I didn’t have skyscale, but griffon and Springer will let you get to the varied mastery points around the zones, especially with a good guide to show where they are.

Updraft and Nuhoch wallows definitely make the zones easier to navigate, even with mounts.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[kharmin.7683]

13 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

The HoT maps are actually the best maps in the game. They are so much fun and the metas are good. It may take a while to navigate and get familiar with them but it’s worth it. 

That's highly subjective.  🙂   I can't stand them and don't find anything fun about them.  HoT maps are definitely not worth it to me.  Still, I give credit to Anet for their design and I am glad that there is a subset of the playerbase which enjoys them.

[Fuchslein.8639]

And what exactly is it about HOT maps that makes them so much nastier than POF or many of the Living World maps?
There are several Living World maps with different levels. And the mobs in POF are by far more clingy and deadly than the ones in HOT, in my opinion.

So my serious question, what makes HOT maps so bad for some people? Especially after they've been nerved to death?
Have you given these maps a real chance? Did you stick to the story and discover the maps bit by bit?

Do you need help and can't find any? I'm on EU and POF maps are often ghost towns while HOT are well played due to their metas and I never had to wait long for help when I needed it.

I can understand if you are confused by the levels at the beginning. But as someone who had extreme problems with it and still has some in TD, I can only advise everyone to maybe do some "sightseeing" and maybe learn to use the mini-map and map (which will help you not only in HOT).
Especially with mounts and especially the Griffin, HOT should really not be a problem, unless of course you completely lock yourself.  Because through the LW and HOT story alone you get so many mastery points that you don't have to pay much attention to HOT.

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

If you can find a good HP train through the HoT zones it will unlock a bunch of waypoints on the way which will make navigation easier.

Also, I found Auric Basin the easiest to navigate at first, and the meta gives a solid chunk of mastery XP each time you do it. I didn’t have skyscale, but griffon and Springer will let you get to the varied mastery points around the zones, especially with a good guide to show where they are.

Updraft and Nuhoch wallows definitely make the zones easier to navigate, even with mounts.

 

I don't know if a HP-train would be the best option when he dosn't have the skyscale. Or are there nowadays trains wo do a more chill-run?

And even when he requires his Skyscale, for new people most hp-trains are a pain, because most hp's have not really much HP. But i only know these super hasty and stressing trains xx.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Fuchslein.8639

[kharmin.7683]

12 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And what exactly is it about HOT maps that makes them so much nastier than POF or many of the Living World maps?
There are several Living World maps with different levels. And the mobs in POF are by far more clingy and deadly than the ones in HOT, in my opinion.

So my serious question, what makes HOT maps so bad for some people? Especially after they've been nerved to death?
Have you given these maps a real chance? Did you stick to the story and discover the maps bit by bit?

Do you need help and can't find any? I'm on EU and POF maps are often ghost towns while HOT are well played due to their metas and I never had to wait long for help when I needed it.

I can understand if you are confused by the levels at the beginning. But as someone who had extreme problems with it and still has some in TD, I can only advise everyone to maybe do some "sightseeing" and maybe learn to use the mini-map and map (which will help you not only in HOT).
Especially with mounts and especially the Griffin, HOT should really not be a problem, unless of course you completely lock yourself.  Because through the LW and HOT story alone you get so many mastery points that you don't have to pay much attention to HOT.

Even with mounts, I find traversing these maps to be burdensome.  The mob density, at certain times, is overwhelming for me.  I can't stand Tangled Depths.

I've been through the story and the maps and didn't really care for the experience.  Thanks for the offer for help, but I don't need it (also, I'm NA). 

I simply do not find HoT maps entertaining for me, which is fine.  I can spend my limited game time on other maps.  I guess I'm too casual for them.

I'm not much of a fan of PoF maps because of the aggro ranges.  I can manage getting around well enough there and can handle most of the mobs but the aggro is annoying which, again, I don't find entertaining.  However, given the choice between HoT and PoF, it would be the latter without hesitation.

[Sobx.1758]

27 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

I don't know if a HP-train would be the best option when he dosn't have the skyscale. Or are there nowadays trains wo do a more chill-run?

And even when he requires his Skyscale, for new people most hp-trains are a pain, because most hp's have not really much HP. But i only know these super hasty and stressing trains xx.

I don't think I've seen HP train requiring skyscales. If that's a thing, it really was never anywhere near the norm.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[LesserHellspawn.3160]

2 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And what exactly is it about HOT maps that makes them so much nastier than POF or many of the Living World maps?
There are several Living World maps with different levels. And the mobs in POF are by far more clingy and deadly than the ones in HOT, in my opinion.

So my serious question, what makes HOT maps so bad for some people? Especially after they've been nerved to death?
Have you given these maps a real chance? Did you stick to the story and discover the maps bit by bit?

Do you need help and can't find any? I'm on EU and POF maps are often ghost towns while HOT are well played due to their metas and I never had to wait long for help when I needed it.

I can understand if you are confused by the levels at the beginning. But as someone who had extreme problems with it and still has some in TD, I can only advise everyone to maybe do some "sightseeing" and maybe learn to use the mini-map and map (which will help you not only in HOT).
Especially with mounts and especially the Griffin, HOT should really not be a problem, unless of course you completely lock yourself.  Because through the LW and HOT story alone you get so many mastery points that you don't have to pay much attention to HOT.

The mobs don't bother me much in either HoT or PoF. My pets all share the evasion trait when using their special skills. But the HoT maps are impossibly vertical, with a distinct lack of means to go UP without the glider maxed, without the Skyscale, without Oakheart's Reach. the ingame map isn't much help either, is it's no real height map and doesn't show where it goes up or down. Everywhere else, including Draconis Mons there are free standing high places, easily reachable with the Springer, and from there the Griffon can take me everywhere. PoF also has the sand portals for the Jackal.

Edited December 28, 2021 by LesserHellspawn.3160

[Fuchslein.8639]

First, Oak Heart is no HOT-Mastery and absolutly not required for HOT.

In contrast to many LW-maps I find HOT even quite straight forward with its wayfinding. As the saying goes, all roads lead to Rome and are connected.
That just confuses me that you find Draconis mons easier to navigate, the map where Oakheart's Reach was introduced(i think) because you don't really get far without that or the skyscale.
In HOT you need at most the jump mushrooms and updrafts, then you are well out and can reach everything without problems.
Many elevated levels you reach super easy through events or also with the jumper and then the Griffin.

No idea whether I'm just the exception, but I find HOT maps so much easier linked than maps like Draconis Mons or Ember Bay. Especially when you consider that many, including me had to manage everything without mounts.

So, I wish you much success and hope you get your mastery points (which you don't need all of, by the way, unless you're someone who has to have everything at max) without having to do much you don't like.

 

(Of course TD are another level, but i mean ... a little pain never killed anyone x) )

Edited December 28, 2021 by Fuchslein.8639

[LesserHellspawn.3160]

Just completed Bloodstone Fen, leaving just the 4 HoT core maps to do. I can't even fathom how it was possible to do that without mounts.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, LesserHellspawn.3160 said:

The mobs don't bother me much in either HoT or PoF. My pets all share the evasion trait when using their special skills. But the HoT maps are impossibly vertical, with a distinct lack of means to go UP without the glider maxed, without the Skyscale, without Oakheart's Reach. the ingame map isn't much help either, is it's no real height map and doesn't show where it goes up or down. Everywhere else, including Draconis Mons there are free standing high places, easily reachable with the Springer, and from there the Griffon can take my everywhere. PoF also has the sand portals for the Jackal.

The map won't show the path you need to take to reach all objectives (exploration is fun until it isn't, right?), but it actually does show which layer an object is located on via transparency.  The object marker also lists a numerical distance above or below your current position on mouseover.  Also pay attention to markers with up/down arrows (e.g. ramps, stairs, cave entrances, etc.) as these indicate map layer transitions to allow you to more easily follow marked pathways across multiple vertical layers.

[Gibson.4036]

3 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

I don't know if a HP-train would be the best option when he dosn't have the skyscale. Or are there nowadays trains wo do a more chill-run?

And even when he requires his Skyscale, for new people most hp-trains are a pain, because most hp's have not really much HP. But i only know these super hasty and stressing trains xx.

The ones I’ve followed advertised raptor and basic gliding only, and ported people along the way where needed. They also hit waypoints along the way because part of doing the path optimally involved waypointing back to places.

They also hit a few mastery points along the way that were in the path.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Cuks.8241]

Hot maps, best maps (by far, not even close). But yeah to each his own. Only complaint I dont get is the masteries. You should get the required one by just following the story quite naturally.

[LesserHellspawn.3160]

I think I'm going to play the Dragon's Stand Meta quite a few times. I've gotten the map completed in the first run, and there's tons of mastery points still to be had through the meta event itself. I'm up to 45 free mastery points now, allowing me to get to tier IV in all the HoT masteries and tier V in gliding. 74 more to max everything.

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Hot maps, best maps (by far, not even close). But yeah to each his own. Only complaint I dont get is the masteries. You should get the required one by just following the story quite naturally.

Well, not quite naturally. Right at the start when you get into Verdant Brink you cannot advance the story quite quickly without doing the gliding mastery and VB is a pain when you don't have mounts and still have to get gliding. Afterwards it gets a lot better but as for first experiences go, HoT is a rough one. I was reminded of this because my wife went through HoT for the first time this past year and all I'll say is that I heard a lot of swearing coming from behind her laptop.

[ArchonWing.9480]

HoT maps were a pain at release, but they were made a lot easier. Now the only truly annoying map is Tangled Depths.

However, they definitely have more replay value. PoF maps are so boring with long stretches of nothing. At least in HoT you have to watch where you going, and heck you may even die. And even after all the years, the meta bosses are still the best. People still freak out over Octovine which is never going to stop being funny.

In the end, I haven't touched a lot of the PoF maps or even finished the story. So yea, HoT maps any day of the week.

Also HoT maps don't have those crappy hearts. All things being equal that would have been better. My first thought when reaching Cursed Shore was that the hearts were over! Well, they were, until Ember Bay came back with the awful resetting hearts that plague this game to this very day.

In the end, I have 1 HoT map compleition to my name so it was pretty good in that sense. (To compare, I only have 1 Core Tyria map completion; yea I hate map completion)

Edited December 28, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, LesserHellspawn.3160 said:

Just completed Bloodstone Fen, leaving just the 4 HoT core maps to do. I can't even fathom how it was possible to do that without mounts.

In turn, I can't fathom why anyone wanting to have an open world experience in mmorpg would skip the exploration HoT maps involved without mounts. Which, of course, is your right to do, but experiencing release HoT with maps turning from unknown/dangerious/convoluted into something you later mastered was great.

2 minutes ago, LesserHellspawn.3160 said:

I'm up to 45 free mastery points now, allowing me to get to tier IV in all the HoT masteries and tier V in gliding. 74 more to max everything.

Seeing how you keep updating the thread with some sort of mastery countdown, it seems you don't care about any potential experience the game offers in the first place, but instead just want to forcefully complete the masteries "and be done with it". Which is your choice, but then again, any involving/immersive OW map will be met with your disapproval as it's just something that stands in the way between you and the masteries. Can't say I agree with the approach here, but oh well 😄 

[LesserHellspawn.3160]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Seeing how you keep updating the thread with some sort of mastery countdown, it seems you don't care about any potential experience the game offers in the first place, but instead just want to forcefully complete the masteries "and be done with it". Which is your choice, but then again, any involving/immersive OW map will be met with your disapproval as it's just something that stands in the way between you and the masteries. Can't say I agree with the approach here, but oh well 😄 

Keep in mind that I'm catching up to 6 unplayed years as much as possible before end of dragons releases. I've enjoyed the ride in PoF and I'm biting my way through HoT.

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, LesserHellspawn.3160 said:

Keep in mind that I'm catching up to 6 unplayed years as much as possible before end of dragons releases. I've enjoyed the ride in PoF and I'm biting my way through HoT.

Ok, but in the end you're still rushing through it, even if it is just because you feel you need to catch up 😛  If you treat it like something you have to complete ASAP with no time to actually enjoy it, then no wonder anything that's not an almost-autocomplete will be annoying you, since you see it as nothing else than an obstacle that halts your progress before the next expansion release. But HoT was a great experience for the most part, as long as you were actually willing to play the mmorpg like an mmorpg instead of treating it like a shopping list out of the gate.

...imo 😉

Edited December 28, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Barraind.7324]

13 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

I don't know if a HP-train would be the best option when he dosn't have the skyscale. Or are there nowadays trains wo do a more chill-run?

And even when he requires his Skyscale, for new people most hp-trains are a pain, because most hp's have not really much HP. But i only know these super hasty and stressing trains xx.

 

I havent seen one ask for more than raptor + gliding.  Some will leave you behind if you arent keeping up, but thats usually one specific commander. 

 

Theres also a monthly HoT Map Completion train (at least on NA) that gets everything but the last bit of DS's meta, on either the first or second saturday of the month.

[Vayne.8563]

I help teach HOT to a lot of people. I'd be happy to take you around and teach it to you.  Send me a PM here if you're interested. HOT Is my favorite area of the game.

[Cyninja.2954]

It is a very simple conundrum with HoT. 

 

Players who enjoyed the metroidvania aspect and the exploration, seeing HoT and its maps for what it is, had a blast.

 

Players who simply see maps and terrain as just something to traverse to get to the part where they want to enjoy the game struggled.

 

Neither approach is right or wrong given it is highly subjective on how one feels.

 

That said, the work and design that went into the HoT maps is/was amazing. Tangled Depths is one of the best crafted maps with so many interconnected parts, I found a new way to get to a hero point years in for example which blew my mind given I know this map rather well or so I thought, while thematically being the "depth of the jungle".

 

Verdant Brink and Auric Basin taught players different aspects of how to traverse and find their way in the jungle, working as introductory maps to the expansion with each having their own style.

 

The mastery system fed perfectly into this with providing new ways to traverse. Which in turnboth allowed access to new areas to explore as well as made traversing already known terrain easier. It played perfectly into the sense and experience of "mastering" the jungle.

 

PoF meanwhile, from the angle of traversal, is a boring flatland. The focus lies with the events and content at every location. Which eventually becomes stale. If there is 1 thing mounts have shown, it is that: movement and traversal are just as important and meaningful to a game play experience as the contant at the place you want to get to.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[LesserHellspawn.3160]

4 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I help teach HOT to a lot of people. I'd be happy to take you around and teach it to you.  Send me a PM here if you're interested. HOT Is my favorite area of the game.

Thank you, I might get back to that if I get stuck for good. For now I have completed the Auric Basin, which is the most "normal" HoT map. For now I'm living in Bjora Marches to get that skyscale ASAP.

Edited December 29, 2021 by LesserHellspawn.3160