WvW feels boring

[Lonecap.4105]

Pretty much only enjoy this game mode during no downstate weeks, ever since Feb 2020 patch.

 I miss enjoying WvW and I was wondering what keeps people playing WvW and having fun with it in 2022.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

5 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Pretty much only enjoy this game mode during no downstate weeks, ever since Feb 2020 patch.

 I miss enjoying WvW and I was wondering what keeps people playing WvW and having fun with it in 2022.

Don't you have fun when your only content is to zerg?

 

Don't you have fun when you solo roam on a non-top roamer and meet so many obnoxious builds and gankers that you lose motivation?

 

Don't you have fun that you can't even properly defend objectives without 25 people standing by to come save you, as no one else will be mad enough to help with an objective (dollies, camp control, siege, fight enemy roamers).

 

etc.

 

Look these things also make WvW what it is. And I still play almost daily. Issue here is the whole problem stems from lack of balance patches shaking up the meta, EVEN, in a predictable way!

 

At this point I suggest for a series of set changes to be implemented every 3 months each year and rotate through them annually to shake things up a bit. 

[Dawdler.8521]

Well, have you ever enjoyed it? Its only been like 4-5 downstate weeks in 10 years. If yes, then what made you enjoy WvW back then?

For me its the guild and just relaxing, wasting time. I like being able to hop in and know I can join WvW and just roam. Maybe not find a fight every time, but most of the time.

My months in ESO taught me that no, I dont enjoy spending 1 hour trying to reach an objective because I warp back 20 meters every 30 meters I run and once I get where I'm going, there is no one there anyway.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I donno man, what could be more fun than wvw's current blob on blob aoe spam fest where big battles mostly consist of the majority of the players in the blob just rolling their heads on their keyboards mindlessly spamming their aoes while the other blob stays at a distance and pushes in during small breaks in said aoe gbage spam to deliver the same aoe mindless spam to their opponents lmao good times, good design devs.

 Now imagine blob fights where aoes where only in the form of aoe cleave around the players and any ranged aoe were only in form of buffs and debuffs that didn't stack. The only ranged dps being siege and ranger single target dps that was set to mediocre numbers, if a team wanted a barrage of arrows they'd need to coordinate with many rangers, the rest would have to clash weapons and actually use their brain to survive and deal in close dps to win the battle. Imagine such a thing.

[Mixes.7164]

I enjoy the salt from players who can't play the game properly and blame everything under the sun for why they lost/died instead of trying to get better at playing. Pressing buttons is fun too.

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Pretty much only enjoy this game mode during no downstate weeks, ever since Feb 2020 patch.

 I miss enjoying WvW and I was wondering what keeps people playing WvW and having fun with it in 2022.

For me personally it was mostly the balance path from Feb 2020 + no real increase in cadence or anything which made roaming less diverse (less fun).

 

For me its also partly a general feeling I have about Guild design that goes to the core of the game and makes it hard to build a guild of people who will play with each other in WvW or any mode. That is, the guild system has nothing much to make people feel like they want to be part of a group or to build a guid w other members. If those things happen its usually through discord. The Guild Missions are pointless, guild hall provides basically nothing, guild chat is probably the best thing about the Guild system.

 

So what Im saying is I feel like Feb 2020 patch and all the rest since have ruined the roaming experience and pushed people toward large battle (zerg) play in WvW. Zerg play's rewards can be really kitten on support. Zerg play requires a large guild with many wvw players.

In the past when I recruited for WvW it was hard to get people on the right server, too expensive to move people. Then they announce the alliance like it would soon be a thing. Now years later it might be a thing, but all the recruiting efforts I made led to people joining better established Guilds on the server or moving to other servers w RL friends, etc. Basically, no reason for people to be loyal they just go to the biggest group cause its easier for them. That makes it very hard to build a WvW player base for my Guild. 

I still roam around once in a while. Some times I join tags but random tags are hit and miss and most good zergs dont show a tag and are private (for discord groups not gw2 goups so to speak). So TBH I kinda dislike how I feel when I play WvW now. It has grown to be a sore point with me.

TBH I think gw2 needs a MAJOR overhaul of the GUILD SYSTEM to make it not suck. Members could get some kind of bonus for grouping w guild. It could be a MF bonus, gold on kills, xp boost and work in all modes. Guild Missions could suck allot less and have rewards enough that people actually do them. Guild Halls could have a pvp arena that lets you choose pvp/wvw/pve stats so its not 100% kittening useless due to using pve stats and traits. I could go on, but I doubt anyone wants to read this anyway.

 

WvW is boring because its cooperative combat in a game in which cooperative groups are impersonal, random groups so when you win it doesnt feel like it matters and when you lose its just frustrating. If people cared about the group they are playing with (Guild, Server, friend, etc) it IMO it would feel allot less Boring to sit and defend, repair, etc. At least for myself I have a hard time careing because WvW seems to impersonal that it all boils down to how I feel about my personal experience and the server doesnt actually feel like somthing I belong to. It only feels like the group happen to be thrown into this week. Similar to hot que PvP matches but at least in pvp you have rankings and win/lose matters to each player has more motive to actually do well and care how the team does. WvW TBH most weeks I could care less how the "team" does because the "team" is impersonal, unfriendly nameless blob.

[kash.9213]

I vibe with my build for about an hour after work. If I had longer to play on weekdays I'd probably get bored of WvW and the game in general. There's no community in the game around player housing or guild halls/towns, which would be fine but then there's no open world pvp and no conflict or community effort with territories on those maps. There's absolutely nothing in the WvW maps except deciding which lane the fights might end up in most. Regardless of the game mode, none of it feels lived in by our characters and none of the modes connect or even hint at each other to push the story, setting, and atmosphere across the game. 

It might feel boring because it's not as personally engaging or expansive and lived in as older mmos like Starwars Galaxies or something, problems aside. 

Depending on what your main grinds are, you're basically playing a lot of little mobile games branching out from whichever lobby you park your characters at. 

WvW, and the rest of the game, need to become one or at least a part of each other. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by kash.9213

[Psycoprophet.8107]

2 hours ago, Mixes.7164 said:

I enjoy the salt from players who can't play the game properly and blame everything under the sun for why they lost/died instead of trying to get better at playing. Pressing buttons is fun too.

This is so true^  I think when watching the skill it takes to play scourge, fb and scrappers etc in zergs it is overwhelmingly intimidating so players chose to complain instead.

[Ronin.4501]

1 hour ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

This is so true^  I think when watching the skill it takes to play scourge, fb and scrappers etc in zergs it is overwhelmingly intimidating so players chose to complain instead.

Wait, it takes skill to play scourge, firebrand, and scrappers in a zerg??  With the current meta, not so much.  As someone who primarily roams, I find it very easy to hop on one of my raid meta builds and join a zerg and do well (I just get bored after 20-30 minutes). 

 

I find it a lot more challenging to play as a roamer.  And when I get bored of roaming on one class, I'm swapping over to different classes and tinkering with various builds until I've either got the build figured out, or determined that it's bad.

 

So that's why I play I guess?  I'm looking for a challenge, and those are few and far between in PvEland.

[Moradorin.6217]

26 minutes ago, Ronin.4501 said:

Wait, it takes skill to play scourge, firebrand, and scrappers in a zerg??  With the current meta, not so much.  As someone who primarily roams, I find it very easy to hop on one of my raid meta builds and join a zerg and do well (I just get bored after 20-30 minutes). 

 

I find it a lot more challenging to play as a roamer.  And when I get bored of roaming on one class, I'm swapping over to different classes and tinkering with various builds until I've either got the build figured out, or determined that it's bad.

 

So that's why I play I guess?  I'm looking for a challenge, and those are few and far between in PvEland.

100% agree. The main reason I hardly wvw anymore is roaming took a big hit after Feb 2020 and my main toon Mesmer got decimated for roaming. I still play typically on a scrapper, soulbeast, scourge. I havnt spent nearly the time on them and dont feel like I know them half as well as Mesmer but I have an easy time playing them in Zergs to XP and stuff but I get really really bored in Zergs with all the sitting around waiting to attack and then during fights you just do your silly role and half the time I start to yawn and my eyes water cause I cant maintain interest in what Im doing so then I either get wreckless/suicidal (cause its more fun than waiting) or I leave and go roam but I then I miss my former main and just leave. I did that for about a year, now I just dont play wvw other than special events like no downstate or if a friend asks me to come play wvw.

 

Also I guess frustrating over alliances. That is, they announced them like it would be soon. I recruited for my guild with that in mind. It didnt happen, people didnt wana change servers, etc, etc. In the end I gave up trying to do WvW with my own Guild cause its kitten near impossible to build up a group of actual like minded people who have both the same play time and same server.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[Psycoprophet.8107]

17 hours ago, Ronin.4501 said:

Wait, it takes skill to play scourge, firebrand, and scrappers in a zerg??  With the current meta, not so much.  As someone who primarily roams, I find it very easy to hop on one of my raid meta builds and join a zerg and do well (I just get bored after 20-30 minutes). 

 

I find it a lot more challenging to play as a roamer.  And when I get bored of roaming on one class, I'm swapping over to different classes and tinkering with various builds until I've either got the build figured out, or determined that it's bad.

 

So that's why I play I guess?  I'm looking for a challenge, and those are few and far between in PvEland.

Lol I was being sarcastic, sry I guess it didn't show thru my post very well.

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 1/18/2022 at 6:59 PM, kash.9213 said:

WvW, and the rest of the game, need to become one or at least a part of each other. 

The saddest part about this stuff is that the game launched with the recipe to solve all these problems.

In vanilla GW2 was designed to be the social MMO, to do right the things that WoW failed to keep and expand on GW1. Living World was supposed to be expansion and replacement of the social of map-events in the open world. The game was designed from combat systems and up to be "truly social" where you "play together, not just next to each other" (in some old Anet panel qoutes). That combat system excelled in WvW. This game has always excelled in and been competetive in its open world systems. This also includes the build systems and the exploration and all those things. The only real mistake here was when they got too preoccupied with esports and supported sPvP over WvW but truth be told PvP as a whole began playing second fiddle already by then.

In HoT GW2 was designed to be the challenger MMO, competing with what the other games did right and expanding on WoW. It was a lofty goal but they pursued it at the expense of more or less the entire game and what it was. The design, mechanics and balance of everything was retooled for raiding and the internal balance and structure was setup for raiding. I can't remember exactly, but they had multiple teams for raids alone while they dismantled the PvP teams. This is also when they began chasing trends only to abandon them too: Strongholds (Moba), Guild Halls etc. All of this while open PvE and open PvP have the most in common regarding gearing, balance, movement and mechanics needs.

In PoF GW2 was designed to be the "casual" and back-to-basics "MMO" where they tried to get existing players of both GW1 and GW2 to stay. This is also when all resources were moved from raids to personal story efforts and all LW maps (while new maps were good) were turned into personal grind maps or start-to-finish maps while the PoF maps have little to no replayability (with both HoT and vanilla maps having more reasons to be revisited), likely because the PoF maps are also more about the personal expansion story than they are about the original concept of a social living world with good dynamic event design.

It seems that they themselves only recently have begun to see that the strengths, replayability and lasting aspects of the game lie in the open world content types of PvE and PvP (eg., PvE map design, events, bosses, story-event-interaction, WvW and where there is truly social player interaction). What remains to be seen is if they can pull that comeback off or if we will just see more story with EoD and beyond it. I really hope the map design and event chaining is good on the EoD maps, that they put together the open-instanced interaction in a good way and that they can keep a focus on WvW and build more PvP overlap and interaction overall too. It has been such a mistake to overlook GvG, GW1 modes and only having 2v2 and 3v3 TDM for so long since that is what can bridge sPvP and WvW. It has been such a waste. It could have been 5v5 and 8v8 or 10v10 TDM since vanilla, because they've been aware of the demand since then (also aknowledged during panels and interviews). If you think about everything from doubling down on conquest, to abandoning WvW, to denying GvG, to strongholds, guild halls and max 3v3, they have really gone out of their way not to give the players what they want and fought the demand every step of the way - and they've pulled projects and resources along the way. We are the zombie of MMO, the walking dead.

Edited January 24, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Grand Marshal.4098]

4 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

The saddest part about this stuff is that the game launched with the recipe to solve all these problems.

In vanilla GW2 was designed to be the social MMO, to do right the things that WoW failed to keep and expand on GW1. Living World was supposed to be expansion and replacement of the social of map-events in the open world. The game was designed from combat systems and up to be "truly social" where you "play together, not just next to each other" (in some old Anet panel qoutes). That combat system excelled in WvW. This game has always excelled in and been competetive in its open world systems. This also includes the build systems and the exploration and all those things. The only real mistake here was when they got too preoccupied with esports and supported sPvP over WvW but truth be told PvP as a whole began playing second fiddle already by then.

In HoT GW2 was designed to be the challenger MMO, competing with what the other games did right and expanding on WoW. It was a lofty goal but they pursued it at the expense of more or less the entire game and what it was. The design, mechanics and balance of everything was retooled for raiding and the internal balance and structure was setup for raiding. I can't remember exactly, but they had multiple teams for raids alone while they dismantled the PvP teams. This is also when they began chasing trends only to abandon them too: Strongholds (Moba), Guild Halls etc. All of this while open PvE and open PvP have the most in common regarding gearing, balance, movement and mechanics needs.

In PoF GW2 was designed to be the back-to-basics "MMO" where they tried to get existing players of both GW1 and GW2 to stay. This is also when all resources were moved from raids to personal story efforts and all LW maps (while new maps were good) were turned into personal grind maps or start-to-finish maps while the PoF maps have little to no replayability (with both HoT and vanilla maps having more reasons to be revisited), likely because the PoF maps are also more about the personal expansion story than they are about the original concept of a social living world with good dynamic event design.

It seems that they themselves only recently have begun to see that the strengths, replayability and lasting aspects of the game lie in the open world content types of PvE and PvP (eg., PvE map design, events, bosses, story-event-interaction, WvW and where there is truly social player interaction). What remains to be seen is if they can pull that comeback off or if we will just see more story with EoD and beyond it. I really hope the map design and event chaining is good on the EoD maps, that they put together the open-instanced interaction in a good way and that they can keep a focus on WvW and build more PvP overlap and interaction overall too. It has been such a mistake to overlook GvG, GW1 modes and only having 2v2 and 3v3 TDM for so long since that is what can bridge sPvP and WvW. It has been such a waste. It could have been 5v5 and 8v8 or 10v10 TDM since vanilla, because they've been aware of the demand since then (also aknowledged during panels and interviews). If you think about everything from doubling down on conquest, to abandoning WvW, to denying GvG, to strongholds, guild halls and max 3v3, they have really gone out of their way not to give the players what they want and fought the demand every step of the way - and they've pulled projects and resources along the way. We are the zombie of MMO, the walking dead.

Yes and this is objective. I still don't know why so many defend anet like this game is only for casuals when it obviously has 10 years of competitive players behind it, not counting the GW1 background player base dedicated to said competitive formats. 

 

The problems are clear. The solutions have been suggested. Proper filtering is a company's business. A company needs to be vocal with it's customers. I've been studying marketing in my university and despite my currently limited knowledge (ofc I'm not some PhD level guy kek) anet does not follow simple and basic marketing rules. 

 

Anyway, let's wait and see. I rly hope those who pre-ordered EoD won't cry for their money. I didn't take the risk. 

[pukish.5784]

Of course it's boring because this game is too old. Most good people left the game, no gankers, no bullies, no funny duelists. Usually such players are fun to play/hunt but right now 99% is clueless or zergers. Zergers usually afk inside keep or spawn while their commander logs. clueless players are usually die really quick or run away, stand on the wall pew pew or sit on siege. Zerg fights are mostly one sided because power balance between guilds is huge, or simply overstacked, overnumbered. and most zerg guild mates are low average skill less players.

[Aeolus.3615]

2 hours ago, pukish.5784 said:

Of course it's boring because this game is too old. Most good people left the game, no gankers, no bullies, no funny duelists. Usually such players are fun to play/hunt but right now 99% is clueless or zergers. Zergers usually afk inside keep or spawn while their commander logs. clueless players are usually die really quick or run away, stand on the wall pew pew or sit on siege. Zerg fights are mostly one sided because power balance between guilds is huge, or simply overstacked, overnumbered. and most zerg guild mates are low average skill less players.

For my experience on this beta aliance the sservers that outman us dont heve have guild groups, just huge loads of randoms during a period of time then its emptyu and its our time to ktrain with loads of randoms as well, every 3  servers have their zerg time vs nothing reason scores are close, just because scores are close doesnt meant wvw is working well....

IMO its boring be on the side of the blob while enemy is afk and its boring to be on the outmaned side facing larger groups to blobs in most maps and most players behaviour wont help either when under this circuntances...

This is what link system was, and this is what the current alliance beta is... 0 fights Ktrained or be ktrained brainless game.

I dont play the game on  the outmaned side to create  content to players in the zerg side and then get the structure zerged again by a omni blob queue,  the experience of WvW has been degrading over time and i think that is what makes WvW boring, there arent "seamless" fights, its just enemy reuning from a blob or we run from the  blob.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Mixes.7164]

On 1/18/2022 at 2:38 PM, Ronin.4501 said:

Wait, it takes skill to play scourge, firebrand, and scrappers in a zerg??  With the current meta, not so much.  As someone who primarily roams, I find it very easy to hop on one of my raid meta builds and join a zerg and do well (I just get bored after 20-30 minutes). 

 

I find it a lot more challenging to play as a roamer.  And when I get bored of roaming on one class, I'm swapping over to different classes and tinkering with various builds until I've either got the build figured out, or determined that it's bad.

 

So that's why I play I guess?  I'm looking for a challenge, and those are few and far between in PvEland.

The game doesn't take skill at all which is what I was getting at. People are just so trash that instead of taking the minimal time needed to learn any build in this game, roaming or otherwise, they complain. This is probably the lowest bar to entry mmo in all aspects so seeing people complain about "gimmicks" or "all the boon stacking" makes me laugh. Fun to poke fun at them too.

[Aeolus.3615]

16 minutes ago, Mixes.7164 said:

The game doesn't take skill at all which is what I was getting at. People are just so trash that instead of taking the minimal time needed to learn any build in this game, roaming or otherwise, they complain. This is probably the lowest bar to entry mmo in all aspects so seeing people complain about "gimmicks" or "all the boon stacking" makes me laugh. Fun to poke fun at them too.

Theres a counter to boon stacking but since its not meta no one cares :P

But the real issue is when there not even players to counter a blob, wvw  builds wise actually atm is a disgrace in terms of skill and build, the most lamer and low IQ player should perform well in the blob.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Caedmon.6798]

Do agree it's getting a bit stale. But it happend months ago,sustain groups are out of control,completely broken yet people rather complain about that solo thief on stealth. Roaming completely died out aswell. Everyone is just handholding or running in big groups,no one ever takes initiative to do anything without a tag anymore neither. It's about the worst state wvw has been in so far.

[gloflop.3510]

9 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

The problems are clear. The solutions have been suggested. Proper filtering is a company's business. A company needs to be vocal with it's customers. I've been studying marketing in my university and despite my currently limited knowledge (ofc I'm not some PhD level guy kek) anet does not follow simple and basic marketing rules. 

 

Anyway, let's wait and see. I rly hope those who pre-ordered EoD won't cry for their money. I didn't take the risk. 

I see the main problems on management level. In my interpretation, it is unclear for anet themselves what they actually want. It lacks a clear guidance from above. The marketing-issues is then an outflow of the problem.

 

I would also discourage everyone from taking the risk with EoD. Wait until its release or a day before and then decide about the purchase. As of now, it brings nothing but risks.

[kash.9213]

6 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Theres a counter to boon stacking but since its not meta no one cares 😛

But the real issue is when there not even players to counter a blob, wvw  builds wise actually atm is a disgrace in terms of skill and build, the most lamer and low IQ player should perform well in the blob.

I'm not sure lame players perform well in a blob as much as the alert players floating around struggle to keep them up and moving. That threshold of a blob collapsing or not is pretty fragile and often comes down to how much the floaters on a map feel like running in tandem with them. 

[Aeolus.3615]

31 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

I'm not sure lame players perform well in a blob as much as the alert players floating around struggle to keep them up and moving. That threshold of a blob collapsing or not is pretty fragile and often comes down to how much the floaters on a map feel like running in tandem with them. 

 

That's true and theres the fact they only play if theres a blob vs nothing...

[Xenesis.6389]

It's boring because we've been playing the same points game for 9 years, skirmish system since 2017, where winning is meaningless, you win only to position your server in a better match the next week, that means avoiding servers like mag who clog up and overwhelm ebg 24/7(they're still doing it in alliance beta btw lmao), avoid bg that ppt's and blobs. Points play is stale and useless, rewards are lacking behind the other game modes, that players turned to farming keeps for bags instead as their easy way to get something rewarding for their play time.

It's boring because we've been playing the same boon ball meta since oct 2015, same elite specs since sept 2017, same meta balance since feb 2020. New expansion of elite specs coming, but none are really needed to replace any of the old ones, most of them are pretty bad and made for pve instead, because I guess the developers don't know that wvw is pvp and a constantly moving battle, and with shield spam projectiles are near useless. They designed one class to be slow but hard hitting, one with a static combo field, one with a pet ai when everyone has complained about ranger pet ai since day one, boon strips on the class that's expected to run frontline with it's pet now lmao, one with a dodge mechanic when the last dodge mechanic spec was nerfed six feet under.

It's boring because roaming has become a group cc gankfest, boon ball has become boon blobs with the only counter being an opposite boon blob. Because of support classes, who are needed in every group, but cry about less loot which I'm sure will be upgraded just for them.

Gw2 is so lucky that they have one of, it not, the best combat system in any mmo, it's carried wvw for 9 years, it's too bad they don't realize that and give us the worse balancing schedules ever. At this point I'm not interesting in the expansion, I'm not interested in alliances, I'm waiting to see what balance and gameplay changes they are going to do for wvw after they finally get past all that.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Justine.6351]

I manage to have fun in my own way. Got to be fun to have fun.

[Mixes.7164]

I'm finding fun here, reading this. Funny stuff. 

[GoldenPants.1870]

On 1/18/2022 at 4:26 PM, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

 I miss enjoying WvW and I was wondering what keeps people playing WvW and having fun with it in 2022.

Constantly trying out new builds.