End of Dragons sorely needs a major profession update BEFORE OR WITH release.

[Raiken.1476]

Regardless of when it actually releases, there's a lot of work to be done before the actual release on the expansion if Anet wants the new elite specs to be played as more than a novelty. The state of professions is awful at the moment, and it's not only the new elite specs over/underperforming or the popularity of classes in fractals and other game modes (though it is a big part). Several things need to be addressed before this game gets into a situation where people unlock elite specs just to try them out, and leave them (and possibly the whole game) behind immediately after realizing there's just no incentive to play them. Key issues:

 

1. The Scourge/Renegade/Firebrand meta. 

These classes just halt the usage of anything that doesn't do insane DPS in PvE. Scourge covers everything defensive while providing Epidemic, Renegade covers easy Alacrity with one button press off cooldown, and Firebrand covers quickness and potentially serves as a main healer for Fractals. All on top of each class providing strong DPS. There's no way End of Dragons elite specs can compete with this unless they're ridiculously overtuned. Mesmers in particular also deserve a mention here, they're first in line to take over the meta especially for 10 man content when/if these classes get their rightful nerfs. 

1.5 Alacrity.

Current classes provide 10 man alacrity, while EoD classes provide 5 man alacrity. This absolutely needs to be fixed by release or any new alacrity build is dead on arrival for raids and the new strikes.

 

2. The state of some of these specs after the second beta.

I have no idea who's gonna play Untamed aside from soloing things anyone can solo using one finger. And if only it was just the Untamed... Some of these specs just don't perform nearly well enough to compete. There are some limited applications for specs in PvE but there is little reason to play the Vindicator (the Beta 4 changes did help a lot though), Harbinger (quite the opposite), and Untamed there. As for PvP and WvW? A mess I won't even bother to type out. Can reach the length of a novel. 

2.5 The builds that should have been, but weren't.

Condition Virtuoso, Power Mechanist, Healing Vindicator (PvE), Alacrity Specter, Power Harbinger, and any Untamed. Clearly, these builds were very much intended for their classes based on the new skills and traits, but there's nothing that these builds can do to compete and they're all garbage in their current state. 

 

3. The massive amount of useless options currently in the game.

Some things really do give off the impression they were never meant to be used. The first few that come to mind are the thief's sword and Acrobatics trait line, the warrior's multitude of useless weapons (when's the last time you saw a warrior seriously use a hammer? A rifle? An off hand sword?) and the Spellbreaker (outside of WvW zergs)/Defense trait lines, the elementalist's ranged builds (Staff was ruined beyond all recognition), the necromancer's power options (main hand dagger in particular) that aren't barely stitched together by the already fairly low-damage (power) Reaper spec. These just offer nothing in any game mode and serve as little more than a trap for new players thinking they might have a purpose. 

 

4. The bugs. 

I really hope someone reads these and fixes more than just the Gem Store bugs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/forum/9-bugs-game-forum-website/

 

I've probably forgotten something. Fill me in with the replies. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Raiken.1476

[Bakeneko.5826]

7 hours ago, Raiken.1476 said:

Condition Virtuoso, Power Mechanist, Healing Vindicator (PvE), Alacrity Specter, Power Harbinger, and any Untamed. Clearly, these builds were very much intended for their classes based on the new skills and traits, but there's nothing that these builds can do to compete and they're all garbage in their current state. 

Don't you think, that if such builds were intended, traits and skills would be designed around it? Harbinger has condi specific trailine, no power one. Virtuoso heavily relies on power with minimal condi traits. Haven't tested other in depth, but my guess it is similar with them too - they are specialised in 3 areas and you are just sad, those areas are not what you want

[Drascious.5714]

This is almost guaranteed to happen don't worry. We have seen 0 balance to existing trait lines and skills based on any of the upcoming elite specs and the complete absence of any 10 man support on the new specs all but confirms that they will be doing away with most or all 10 man skills.

An alternative is that in instanced pve we might see boons scale to the content instead as that would be another brilliant way to smooth out the complexities of team comps.

We almost certainly will be seeing a final balance pass on the new elite specs regardless and at that point it will likely be time to pull the trigger on any further reaching balance changes.

We have yet to see if any new stat combos are being added and have also not seen any new runes or sigils so there's quite a significant amount of buildcraft on the table that might make the current situation make more sense. Additionally we already know that encounter design is quite different in EoD so it's also possible that the current design of some specs might make more sense in that environment.

 

[Wintermute.5408]

42 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Don't you think, that if such builds were intended, traits and skills would be designed around it? Harbinger has condi specific trailine, no power one. Virtuoso heavily relies on power with minimal condi traits. Haven't tested other in depth, but my guess it is similar with them too - they are specialised in 3 areas and you are just sad, those areas are not what you want

Harb has power specific traitline though. It just sucks balls.

[DarcShriek.5829]

If I remember correctly there was a big balance update just before PoF released.  I think there's a good chance one will be released before EoD.

[Huldrelokk.6598]

We requested Elementalist Longbow and they ignored with a strange hammer, i cant expect good improvements at this point, with the "stack and attack" philosophy we are condemned to get melee classes

[SunRoamer.5103]

Looking at the list of balance patches, there was a major one about a month and a half before the release of Path of Fire, with a minor follow-up on the launch day itself. These prepared the state of the balance for the arrival of the new elite specialisations and in some cases helped redefine the exact roles the HoT specialisations had in comparison. Our last major balance update was more than half a year ago, in May '21. The patch notes mention that "we're preparing for Cantha", however this was mainly in regards to boons and conditions and not so much preparing for the possible new EoD meta (in any case, at that point it was too early to do so).

I definitely hope that ANet will continue this tradition and therefore do a massive balance patch around/after the launch of EoD to deal with some long-standing issues as well as to prepare for EoD by defining some of the existing specialisations more clearly. I'm fairly optimistic that this will happen, as a balance patch is almost overdue at this point, anyways.

Edited January 26, 2022 by SunRoamer.5103

[Vidit.7108]

Firebrand/Scourge/Renegade don't need substantial nerfs, the other classes need buffs. You know what guardian has that a class like thief doesn't? Trait lines with viable options that are in competition with each other for spots in builds. When is the last time anyone playing thief made an instanced content PvE build that used deadly aim, sundering shade or even the odds? And like you say no one even uses acrobatics. 

Fractal CM Pugs =/= what the best group comps are. They're just what people are finding works best to play with randos.

You can still take the power builds people were using a year ago into T4 fractals now and it wouldn't take much if at all longer to do them as it did back then.

You can still take power builds into CMs. In the last month DT has posted like two videos of under a minute CM fights that don't use Scourge or Firebrand.

[Serephen.3420]

13 hours ago, Huldrelokk.6598 said:

We requested Elementalist Longbow and they ignored with a strange hammer, i cant expect good improvements at this point, with the "stack and attack" philosophy we are condemned to get melee classes

As one of those who originally wanted a longbow I would say some asked. Many others asked for greatsword, some for torch(shudder) heck even heard mace mentioned. 

 

[The Boz.2038]

4 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said:

As one of those who originally wanted a longbow I would say some asked. Many others asked for greatsword, some for torch(shudder) heck even heard mace mentioned. 

 

And all of them were wrong, objectively so, for Pistols were clearly the GOAT idea.

[Monarc.9726]

I don’t think Anet could have released a new expansion without adding new e-specs, not without players complaining, but it’s become too much to balance.

I think at this point having one meta spec for each profession for each game mode is the goal. It’s impossible to expect every spec to have meta options for each game mode. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Monarc.9726

[Gibson.4036]

13 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

And all of them were wrong, objectively so, for Pistols were clearly the GOAT idea.

Spellslinger FTW.

Only problem is that I don’t seem to like what ANet does with pistols. Sweet concept, but I’d be anxious about the implementation.

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

I wish we get throwing weapon, like small knifes, or shuriken. Would be cool to use it for ranged, especially for ele.

[phokus.8934]

13 hours ago, Monarc.9726 said:

I don’t think Anet could have released a new expansion without adding new e-specs, not without players complaining, but it’s become too much to balance.

I think at this point having one meta spec for each profession for each game mode is the goal. It’s impossible to expect every spec to have meta options for each game mode. 

Elite specs is the only reason why I bought the expansions.  If they release another expansion without elite specs then I won't be buying it.  It's a rather huge selling point but the balance issues are real.  I just wonder what they're plan would be going forward.

[Dawdler.8521]

5 hours ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

I wish we get throwing weapon, like small knifes, or shuriken. Would be cool to use it for ranged, especially for ele.

You literally already have throwing hammers.

You dont go to pathetic knives from there.

Here me out here...

Throwing rifles.

[Donut.6914]

6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

You literally already have throwing hammers.

You dont go to pathetic knives from there.

Here me out here...

Throwing rifles.

what about a rifle that shoots more rifles 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:04 PM, Donut.6914 said:

what about a rifle that shoots more rifles 

You could go one better and add some pointless lore flavour: A rifle that shoots rifles... through the Mysts.

Edited January 31, 2022 by nosleepdemon.1368

[Avatara.1042]

On 1/27/2022 at 2:28 AM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Don't you think, that if such builds were intended, traits and skills would be designed around it? Harbinger has condi specific trailine, no power one. Virtuoso heavily relies on power with minimal condi traits. Haven't tested other in depth, but my guess it is similar with them too - they are specialised in 3 areas and you are just sad, those areas are not what you want

Harbinger has a power line and Virtuoso has a condi line.  You are completely wrong.