Already seeing reapers/firebrands/renegades/Pof specs and nothing else OW

[Desh.7028]

On 3/2/2022 at 11:29 PM, Shiyo.3578 said:

That's exactly the point.

 

Or what about people playing simply what they enjoy? You're coming in here yucking on other peoples yumm for selfish reason without even realizing that over half the EoD specs are going to be the meta for the DPS role from what benchmarks are telling me.

[Shiyo.3578]

21 minutes ago, Desh.7028 said:

 

Or what about people playing simply what they enjoy? You're coming in here yucking on other peoples yumm for selfish reason without even realizing that over half the EoD specs are going to be the meta for the DPS role from what benchmarks are telling me.

Meta DPS isn't revelant to a thread about OW.

[Desh.7028]

Just now, Shiyo.3578 said:

Meta DPS isn't revelant to a thread about OW.

 

But it is important for what people pick to play in other areas and even in general, yes? And thus becomes very relevant when those people take these builds into the open world because they know it works (potentially not how it works but that's a very different topic).

[Faolon.9702]

IMO, instead of nerfing anything. The POF specs should be considered baseline.

[Gibson.4036]

On 3/14/2022 at 12:20 AM, Faolon.9702 said:

IMO, instead of nerfing anything. The POF specs should be considered baseline.

That would run counter to the OP’s agenda, which is to get everything nerfed in order to rewind power creep and make open world difficult.

[Carnifex.3275]

On 3/3/2022 at 12:23 AM, Shiyo.3578 said:

Nerf these overpowered specs properly if you want EoD specs to be played.

God dam it. Once again i'll repeat myself... Don't nerf POF specs but rather buff EoD specs. POF specs were nerfed alot already and by nerfing them even more we're just making both POF and EOD specs underwhelming. I think it's obvious some EOD specs are really underwhelming.

[anbujackson.9564]

3 hours ago, Dave.6819 said:

God dam it. Once again i'll repeat myself... Don't nerf POF specs but rather buff EoD specs. POF specs were nerfed alot already and by nerfing them even more we're just making both POF and EOD specs underwhelming. I think it's obvious some EOD specs are really underwhelming.

No, a sane person wouldnt want that. PoF specs were nerfed because their performance broke the game (and still do to some degree). We also dont need overtuned stuff like mechanist. The game gets simplified enough already by perma boons with less than 3 buttons/skills used. 

Whats "underwhelming" in your eyes? Doing less than 40k dps? Not dealing 30k with quickness/alac? Underwhelming EoD specs are catalyst, untamed and maybe even bladesworn because its absurdly clunky (I barely see it at all). Just like how underwhelming spellbreaker and deadeye are out of the PoF specs (and to some extent weaver too).

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by anbujackson.9564

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

3 hours ago, Dave.6819 said:

God dam it. Once again i'll repeat myself... Don't nerf POF specs but rather buff EoD specs. POF specs were nerfed alot already and by nerfing them even more we're just making both POF and EOD specs underwhelming. I think it's obvious some EOD specs are really underwhelming.

You are right! Just delete Firebrand and Scourge! Start from scratch! Make a room for other classes!

[Nimon.7840]

What the kitten.

Let people play what they enjoy most.

 

I don't know at what time you are playing, but when I do metas in eod there's almost always more eod specs than hot and pof specs combined.

[SOLITWOLF.7514]

yes, of course. you wouldn't see any thief because they're in stealth. and some even mistook specter for necro.

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You are right! Just delete Firebrand and Scourge!

You meant eles, right?

[otto.5684]

On 3/2/2022 at 5:27 PM, Marina Demeretmonde.1064 said:

Can you blame people for exploring with their strongest character?  

This is… not correct. Example, as a guardian main, condi WB has the highest damage output of any guardian dps build in all PvE scenarios. Its sustain is about equal with FB and core, with dps gear. Issue it is pretty much identical to core condi in terms of gameplay. It is not something new by any means. And offers nothing but damage. The power variant suffers from the same issues, with DH damage output being about equal.

 

My issue is purely from poor design (virtues are basically symbols on a mobile elite) and redundancy. Compared to PoF elites, EoD elites are really lacking in design. HoT elites had some of EoD elite issues, but back then, they were no other elites.

[RabbitUp.8294]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:55 PM, otto.5684 said:

This is… not correct. Example, as a guardian main, condi WB has the highest damage output of any guardian dps build in all PvE scenarios. Its sustain is about equal with FB and core, with dps gear. Issue it is pretty much identical to core condi in terms of gameplay. It is not something new by any means. And offers nothing but damage. The power variant suffers from the same issues, with DH damage output being about equal.

 

My issue is purely from poor design (virtues are basically symbols on a mobile elite) and redundancy. Compared to PoF elites, EoD elites are really lacking in design. HoT elites had some of EoD elite issues, but back then, they were no other elites.

I'd say the constantly refreshing dash on F1 makes for a different enough experience compared to core guard.

Also, what does FB offer to itself when you really look at it? The tomes are burning, healing and defensive boons. WB virtues do the exact same thing with less button presses. 

And FB is not the only elite spec, what about DH? Isn't it just core guard with traps?

[Kichwas.7152]

I've spam run a LOT of Fractals and Dungeons over the last month - meaning in parties where I could actually see what spec people were on.

 

Over the last month my perspective has been that several of the new elites have been quite popular.

 

I see a lot of them for the warriors, engineers, mesmers, necromancers and thieves.

 

Harder for me to say for the other classes. I've seen a lot less rangers, elementalists, guardians, and revenants than I used to. Of those I've seen, the rangers seem split evenly between the new and the PoF elite, and the Revs are almost all on the PoF elite. The only elementalists and guardians I've seen in the last month that I can recall are my own - I'm sure they've been in some of my groups, pretty sure I've even seen Catalyst spells go off, but I can't remember seeing them in my party lists.

 

It's much harder to speak for Open World because I've got player effects culled a bit and often miss what the people around me are playing unless I see something obvious like a pet running around.

 

To me, this isn't a bad success ratio - 5 of the new elites are popular. 4 are not. Sure we'd want all 9 to be popular. But it's not a disaster.

 

Of the ones that are not as popular... I think Untamed is actually very powerful if played right, and extremely weak if played wrong - you need to know how to time unleashed states. Elementalist is getting a buff that will hopefully help it out. Guardian suffers from it's PoF spec being so extremely popular.

 

And Revenant I don't know - my Revenant is my only heavy armor character will a full set of ascended condition damage gear (Vipers), so I haven't had a gear set ready to even try the new spec which seems to tailored to Power only. This DOES feel like an issue. You can make a strong PoF Rev as either Power or Condi - even with using the PoF weapon choice (which favors Condi, but won't be cripplingly weak on Power). If you make a greatsword Condi Rev with the EoD spec, as I read it you're missing the point. So for me at least, the transition to even trying it out is held up by having all the wrong gear.

 

[Apolo.5942]

There are not enough warrior nerfs on the planet, that would make me play BS.

 

I just dont like and dont play BS.

[draxynnic.3719]

11 hours ago, Kichwas.7152 said:

Harder for me to say for the other classes. I've seen a lot less rangers, elementalists, guardians, and revenants than I used to. Of those I've seen, the rangers seem split evenly between the new and the PoF elite, and the Revs are almost all on the PoF elite. The only elementalists and guardians I've seen in the last month that I can recall are my own - I'm sure they've been in some of my groups, pretty sure I've even seen Catalyst spells go off, but I can't remember seeing them in my party lists.

Ironically, that's three out of the four professions I've finished EoD with.

Vindicator... kinda has the issue in that it's got a lot of weird things going on for the player to deal with. The Alliance legend switching between a DPS mode and a heal mode can be a bit weird, especially since I think there are issues with it coming back into the right mode after you switch back in (it's supposed to return to whichever of the pair you were in beforehand, but I found it kept reverting to Viktor when I was expecting Archemorus), and the dodge being replaced by a single dragoon jump. I don't think it's necessarily bad, but I think people are going to need more time to get used to it to really judge where it is.

In the case of Willbender, I think people's views of it are still a bit coloured by the reputation it had during the betas, and its performance in competitive modes, and as a result people think it's too fragile. In PvE... it's actually pretty good. Go full glass and it has the highest DPS of guardian builds, and if you don't go absolute full glass and invest some traits or stats into sustain, it can survive quite a bit (it's probably been my smoothest EoD completion thus far, although I think with Virtuoso I spent most of the story running the wrong traits and it improved markedly when I adjusted my build). People make a big deal about losing the passives, but... well, you trade a little bit of passive healing for significant chunks of healing on a 2 ammo, 20s count recharge skill that you can use when you actually need the healing. You also trade an aegis every 40s that probably popped when you didn't really need it for a 30s base recharge skill which, if combined with multihit attacks, gives you so many aegis procs over the space of 6s that you're almost invulnerable, and which can be supercharged with aegis traits (Shattered Aegis renewing itself might have been nerfed, but it can still be up to one more aegis proc a second, and Pure of Heart can turn it into another significant source of healing). It's still got a lot of competition from the old standbys, but I think it's still pretty underrated.

Untamed is... honestly, it's probably the most fun I've had with ranger in a while. Bouncing Unleashed between the ranger and pet, in addition to being able to swap pets, gives you a lot of opportunity to adjust to circumstances, but you actually do feel like you're doing this in response to the ebb and flow of the battle (unlike elementalist which was advertised as doing this in prerelease, but in practice just has to switch through attunements because it's balanced so that it HAS to in order to do much). Having full control over your pets is nice, especially with the new pets that generally have all three skills being fairly impactful (probably because they were made with Untamed in mind), although being able to set some pet skills on autocast would probably make for a good QoL change. Fervent Force is really powerful: maybe it's a bug, but you don't ACTUALLY have to disable the target for it to trigger, only to land a skill that would be a hard disable. So you can, for instance, use We Heal As One, unleash the pet (and pop F3 if there's any ranged pressure), hammer 3, hammer 5, Exploding Spores, hammer 3 again because the last two covered most of the recharge of hammer 3, and you've cut 16s off the recharge of We Heal As One. The main things that I'm seeing holding it back is that it doesn't have a lot of CC resistance for a melee build (at least not with the build I've been using), so the aforementioned chain can be interrupted and it can be painful when it is, and possibly more critically, it doesn't seem like it has a huge amount of damage, which holds it back in instanced PvE. 

Catalyst... well, let's be blunt here. Catalyst is still in beta. If it's not my last through, it's because I view mechanist the way Mukluk views mesmers.

12 hours ago, Kichwas.7152 said:

And Revenant I don't know - my Revenant is my only heavy armor character will a full set of ascended condition damage gear (Vipers), so I haven't had a gear set ready to even try the new spec which seems to tailored to Power only. This DOES feel like an issue. You can make a strong PoF Rev as either Power or Condi - even with using the PoF weapon choice (which favors Condi, but won't be cripplingly weak on Power). If you make a greatsword Condi Rev with the EoD spec, as I read it you're missing the point. So for me at least, the transition to even trying it out is held up by having all the wrong gear.

 

I haven't tried it yet, but I have theorycrafted something that I think could work on a similar principle to condi herald. Probably go Celestial if you want more defence rather than Trailblazers (but I think condi herald did that anyway), run Abyssal Chill, and use the second GM so that dodges chill enemies, in addition to the greatsword autoattack if you take the greatsword (which makes it a somewhat higher damage alternative to staff, and if you're running viper or celestial the power coefficients won't be completely neutered). Use Mallyx as per normal, and use Scavenger Burst in Archemorus for boons and burning as often as you reasonably can.. 

[Kichwas.7152]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

In the case of Willbender, I think people's views of it are still a bit coloured by the reputation it had during the betas, and its performance in competitive modes, and as a result people think it's too fragile. In PvE... it's actually pretty good. Go full glass and it has the highest DPS of guardian builds, and if you don't go absolute full glass and invest some traits or stats into sustain, it can survive quite a bit (it's probably been my smoothest EoD completion thus far, although I think with Virtuoso I spent most of the story running the wrong traits and it improved markedly when I adjusted my build).

 

Untamed is... honestly, it's probably the most fun I've had with ranger in a while. Bouncing Unleashed between the ranger and pet, in addition to being able to swap pets, gives you a lot of opportunity to adjust to circumstances, but you actually do feel like you're doing this in response to the ebb and flow of the battle (unlike elementalist which was advertised as doing this in prerelease, but in practice just has to switch through attunements because it's balanced so that it HAS to in order to do much).

 

Catalyst... well, let's be blunt here. Catalyst is still in beta. If it's not my last through, it's because I view mechanist the way Mukluk views mesmers.

 

 

Your experiences with Untamed and Willbender match my own much briefer ones (I've only dabbled with Willbender, and just a little bit more dabbling with Untamed).

 

Untamed is a LOT of fun to play, and if you play it well it performs not too badly. But it is super easy to be bad at and that will cause many people to undervalue it.

 

Willbender is a blast and seems extremely potent if... again... used right.

 

Catalyst, yes - Elementalist has always wanted people to cycle through their attunements. And this time it's weird because 2 of them are melee and two of them are ranged, and that means you should be picking them based on circumstance but the class design says you pick them based on "it's time to cycle". I find I am spending most of my time in Fire and Air, using Water just to 'hit 4' and heal, and then Earth just to get it's special shift-8 out.

 

Somewhere back in Season 3 my Elementalist became my 'story main' - so it's now what I'm still doing the expansion content story with. That's actually improved my gameplay a lot because the class is so fragile. But if I were to go back I'd probably pick something else. Still it means I've got a LOT of time on Catalyst right now and while I love having a hammer I also don't feel 'the special gimmick' for the spec. If I wasn't using Hammer with it it wouldn't feel distinct from a core Elementalist.

 

I really need to toss my Revenant a set of Power gear, even if it's not even exotic, and just run around the open world for a bit and see what I think.

 

[adrunkmunkey.6059]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:50 PM, Sevifor.1925 said:

 

Even after the fun nerfs, Im still playing my Firebrand, because my experience with Willbender hasn't been enjoyable, particularly in the open world (not enough AoE, no support). 

Willy didn't really click for me until I geared for condition and started throwing that f2 into the end of my regular rotations. It pulls you out to adjust targets and so you can teleport back in with one of the many port skills. With the way I play it now, I become the AoE by laying down claws around weaker parts of the mob so justice can keep refreshing and I can have multiple claws down while zipping around picking my targets and barely getting hit. With single targets, I've taken down elites by basically dancing with them so they have to keep adjusting to attack me. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

*squints* 

Kind of a weird take being upset that people aren't all flocking to the new specs, and then suggesting the solution to that is to nerf the old ones that apparently work well enough for people to enjoy playing them instead of...yknow, making the new ones more fun?

"people wont flock predictably, this means the thing they have already is too good" sounds like the rationale you'd find at like... Microsoft or Bethesda. Instead of making the new shiny thing better, you wanna just poke holes in the old good thing until people -have- to move to continue having fun? 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Mell.4873]

On 3/4/2022 at 4:57 PM, Westenev.5289 said:

 

I dunno, I think people generally play virtuoso because of the aesthetics. Functionality is secondary. xD

Virtuoso is currently one of the best open world PvE damage options at the moment. Most if not all the top dps are Virtuosos. 

Saying that I normally run support so I can boost their damage more. 

[Gibson.4036]

On 4/4/2022 at 3:17 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Kind of a weird take being upset that people aren't all flocking to the new specs, and then suggesting the solution to that is to nerf the old ones that apparently work well enough for people to enjoy playing them instead of...yknow, making the new ones more fun?

Not so weird when you know that the OP has started several "nerf all the things" threads. What they are really advocating is for all professions to be weak enough that open world is challenging. People not playing the new specs was just another way to start a thread advocating for nerfs.

Which, of course, was quickly made absurd as people got into trying the new specs and started using them.

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Not so weird when you know that the OP has started several "nerf all the things" threads. What they are really advocating is for all professions to be weak enough that open world is challenging. People not playing the new specs was just another way to start a thread advocating for nerfs.

Which, of course, was quickly made absurd as people got into trying the new specs and started using them.

Tbh imho quite a few of the new speccs have proven very strong and long term on par with old so dunno why he insisting on more nerfs. 

And tbh I see far more EoD specc users then PoF. Things like mechainist is wildly popular. They most defintly are playing the new speccs 

[Gibson.4036]

On 4/6/2022 at 5:07 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

Tbh imho quite a few of the new speccs have proven very strong and long term on par with old so dunno why he insisting on more nerfs. 

And tbh I see far more EoD specc users then PoF. Things like mechainist is wildly popular. They most defintly are playing the new speccs 

Agreed.

Which is probably why the OP stopped posting here several weeks ago. At some point it became clear that people are playing the new specs, and the argument could no longer be used for nerfing all the things.

[Puck.3697]

11 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Agreed.

Which is probably why the OP stopped posting here several weeks ago. At some point it became clear that people are playing the new specs, and the argument could no longer be used for nerfing all the things.

i've always found it weird people ask for Aimless nerfs. Nerfs are ok. when they serve a Purpose. it seems the OP has No purpose in demanding nerfs though, she just wants things Aimlessly nerfed. imho things are in pretty good shape currently.

[Archer.4362]

28 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Acordado.

Probablemente por eso el OP dejó de publicar aquí hace varias semanas. En algún momento quedó claro que la gente estaba  jugando con  las nuevas especificaciones, y el argumento ya no podía usarse para nerfear todas las cosas.

they are very solid because they have nerfed the old specializations.