Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[HotDelirium.7984]

2 hours ago, The Rum.4901 said:

Honestly i dont mind the difficulty or even failing. But i definitely dont want to spend an hour and a half prepping an event only to fail at the end.

 

I can definitely see people not bothering with this meta once they've finally cleared it once.

At least give groups who fail a buff, 1 silver, a chest, 2,000 karma ....something xD 

[GingeraleDragon.5804]

Going to sleep and waking up to check this thread sure has been a treat. It's pretty safe to say this is the most toxicity regarding a meta event I've ever seen, and nobody knows who this is for. People want a hardcore event for the best of the best. People want something that they can complete without having someone shove orders all over their screen.

My honest to god take is that if you're making content intended for the open world, it should be on the more casual side. This is content that everyone who plays through the story is going to see. The hardcore minmaxers will be drowning in casual players. The casuals will be getting yelled at by the toxic minority. This is a major problem.

We don't want our free candy. We just want a major selling point advertised to be in our DLC we paid $30-$80 for to be remotely attainable. The fact of the matter is that mechanics still do not work as originally intended. Fine tuning needs to be done, regardless how you feel, if you got your turtle or not.

 

Stop yelling at casuals that their bad. People who do are the reason that games like this die. The content is 6 days old, we're all learning. Let's not kill each other.

Edited March 6, 2022 by GingeraleDragon.5804

[Lonewolf.8602]

7 minutes ago, XECOR.2814 said:

The game im playing is not equal to my game. Nice way of twisting words and trying to use against me.

Bruh I think what they were saying is that this game caters to both hardcores and casuals. It is a MMORPG after all. If you're good at the hardcore contents, great! If you've cleared this multiple times, congrats! But the general point of a lot of people here is that this isn't something that you can walk into and expect to finish it right then and there. And then there's also the Soo-Won RNG mechanics (which is also another issue).

 

Personally, I love the difficulty and the epicness of this meta. I just got burned out because of several failed attempts since Day 2. I go with what the others were saying: make the open world meta easy enough for casuals but maybe with less rewards (turtle included ofcourse) AND THEN make an instanced version like Dragonstorm where all hardcore, unforgiving mechanics are present and the rewards are far, far better than the open world rewards. That way, both hardcores and casuals are satisfied. This would also resolve the map chat toxicity and gatekeeping that's happening at Dragon's End right now. If Anet goes with this suggestion, heck, I'm willing to do the instanced version.

[Firebird Gomer.9563]

Interesting to think. If I said I want my money back, what would Anet think. I am not talking about just this expac. I am talking - Core, HoT, PoF, every cash shop gem purchase I've ever made and then I am talking about this expac. Then they could delete my account remove everything I have earned or achieved or bought.

Imagine if everyone did that. The company would go under. NCsoft would probably be in serious trouble.

I am not advocating this idea just simply wondering at the ramifications cause I have spent a lot on fun stuff. I know they would never do it but if the threat was there how would Anet respond.

On topic.... RNG sucks. Fix RNG. The Meta can still be challenging just not subject to AI RNG.

[Nezekan.2671]

I have seen Hardstuck guild runs fail at least twice. They are the 1% if the 1%. They don't fail Dhuum CM but they are failing this event. Because as Mukluk said, this is like a none consensual raid. You are forced to organize in a map system that explicitly prevents organization, so you are forced to group with whoever is in the map with you at the time.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

57 minutes ago, XECOR.2814 said:

The game im playing is not equal to my game. Nice way of twisting words and trying to use against me.

You literally commented like this game only revolves around you. I didn't twist anything. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[Zephire.8049]

4 minutes ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

I have seen Hardstuck guild runs fail at least twice. They are the 1% if the 1%. They don't fail Dhuum CM but they are failing this event. Because as Mukluk said, this is like a none consensual raid. You are forced to organize in a map system that explicitly prevents organization, so you are forced to group with whoever is in the map with you at the time.

You're also reliant on everyone on the map wanting to do the meta instead of achievements, fishing, or the story. If you end up on a map with people who don't want to do the meta, that instance is essentially doomed as people can't join due to map capacity and there's not enough breathing room to have people elsewhere on the map not helping out.

And that's assuming people aren't intentionally AFKing on the map to take up a map slot.

Your only chance is to get into a fresh instance and have everyone swap over before too many pugs join it.

Other map metas take into account that a certain percentage of people on the map won't be contributing and are scaled around that. This one seems to be scaled around everyone on the map taking part (while in properly geared raid builds... on an open world map), which isn't realistic.

[Nezekan.2671]

9 minutes ago, Zephire.8049 said:

You're also reliant on everyone on the map wanting to do the meta instead of achievements, fishing, or the story. If you end up on a map with people who don't want to do the meta, that instance is essentially doomed as people can't join due to map capacity and there's not enough breathing room to have people elsewhere on the map not helping out.

And that's assuming people aren't intentionally AFKing on the map to take up a map slot.

Your only chance is to get into a fresh instance and have everyone swap over before too many pugs join it.

Other map metas take into account that a certain percentage of people on the map won't be contributing and are scaled around that. This one seems to be scaled around everyone on the map taking part (while in properly geared raid builds... on an open world map), which isn't realistic.

Exactly, and joining a new map means other people are actively joining it as well. Anyone who is loading into the map has a chance to load into our meta map.

I already have the turtle, but I will stand by my argument. 2 friends that brought to Guild Wars 2 are thinking of leaving the game mainly because of Dragon's End map. Not just the meta, but the map as a whole, including fullness, crashes and so on. This meta and map truly outlines everything that is wrong with GW2's open world system. But this is not a new thing. Anet always screwed up metas on release. Chak Gerent HP was at least triple what it is today on release. 

For reference, one of my friends was kicked from a meta group for being a Willbender and not Firebrand. I invited him to the game and he does not even own PoF! He bought EoD and if he liked it, he was going to buy other expansions too. Why does an open world meta event require this level of elitism to beat? Who is this content for? The turtle was advertised as an important part of the Expansion. It was not advertised as a reward of hardcore content.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Nezekan.2671

[Kalocin.5982]

I'll just go back to FFXIV for raiding as the content is balanced properly from casual to extreme. If you want to keep the difficulty of the fight then decouple it from the map meta and make the fight itself a mapped instance like Dragonstorm. As a bonus you could have two versions, one hard and one for the casual mode. Anyhow, kind of ridiculous that some random guys fishing on the map can genuinely affect the completion of the fight. Seems like an odd stance to have with the influx of new people coming in. I don't have two hours to waste every day so I'll probably just wait to see if they change this, otherwise I probably won't bother giving myself a headache.

 

On a side note, this fight is anti-accessibility. In this day and age where everyone is focused on being more accommodating it feels like a hilarious step backwards, heck even outright insulting to anyone who can't play at optimal levels due to a disability.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Kalocin.5982

[FortnitemareCourt.8354]

I've done this meta before and after these fixes. It's better sure. But seriously HOW are you supposed to learn the fight when her attacks are RNG? I know all of the possible mechanics now and the maps I've been on did too. Still failed because of crap RNG. We broke her bar and SHE MOVED. What good is a longer debuff if we can't damage her? I'm a raider, I have all three sets of legendary armor, I've unlocked all of the raid skins and I could complete the raid ring anytime if I got off my butt and did the last collection. I like difficult content. RNG mechanics is not how you make a fair hard fight.

My suggestions:

• Remove the RNG of her attacks or give her a LONG LONG cooldown between when she can swap sides.
• If we break her successfully, stun her so we can actually do damage to her.
• In the circle phase when we get the spear let me click on her name in the UI so I can actually target her.
• When her tail appears, let that bar also appear in the UI so folks can easily target her tail and SEE more clearly than the debuff on her bar that the tail is there.
• The wisp phase is fine now as is so long as we can get the absolutely craziness of her RNG adjusted.
• Her health total is fine again if we can actually hit her more often.
• If you insist on keeping the RNG of attacks, pause the timer during the wisp, and champ phases.

[Snowlock.3841]

I challenge ArenaNet's HR department to lock their GW2 developers and designers' paychecks behind successful completion of this meta on the public servers.  If it's really working as intended, put your money where your mouth is.  Prove it.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Snowlock.3841

[Zephire.8049]

28 minutes ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Exactly, and joining a new map means other people are actively joining it as well. Anyone who is loading into the map has a chance to load into our meta map.

I already have the turtle, but I will stand by my argument. 2 friends that brought to Guild Wars 2 are thinking of leaving the game mainly because of Dragon's End map. Not just the meta, but the map as a whole, including fullness, crashes and so on. This meta and map truly outlines everything that is wrong with GW2's open world system. But this is not a new thing. Anet always screwed up metas on release. Chak Gerent HP was at least triple what it is today on release. 

For reference, one of my friends was kicked from a meta group for being a Willbender and not Firebrand. I invited him to the game and he does not even own PoF! He bought EoD and if he liked it, he was going to buy other expansions too. Why does an open world meta event require this level of elitism to beat? Who is this content for? The turtle was advertised as an important part of the Expansion. It was not advertised as a reward of hardcore content.

Who this content is for is a great question. It's not for raiders as it's impossible to organize due to the map system and limitations, and how they will have to play with non-raiders. It's not for people who play open world as it has far to high a skill floor and fosters elitism. It's not for people into collections as it's a 2+ hour wait and pure luck blocking progress. It's not for people who want an advertised mount that was a key selling point for the expansion. It's not for people new to the franchise. It's not for people who RP or prefer a non-ideal play style. It's not for people with older computers. It's not for people who are disabled.

The only thing I can think of is it's for Anet's ego rather than the players what with the response to the outrage and complaints being they like where it's at and they don't want to change more than what they've already changed if they can help it because it's "supposed to be" an epic battle. But, unchanged, the only thing "epic" about it is how quickly they'll lose players and have to issue refunds right after they launched an expansion as many people would not have bought EOD at all if this meta is an example of the direction Anet wants to go or how it treats casual players.

[TeeracK.3601]

I've read this post twice and I'm not sure what's going on, but I'm pretty sure this post was written by a blizzard employee.

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

I have seen Hardstuck guild runs fail at least twice. They are the 1% if the 1%. They don't fail Dhuum CM but they are failing this event. Because as Mukluk said, this is like a none consensual raid. You are forced to organize in a map system that explicitly prevents organization, so you are forced to group with whoever is in the map with you at the time.

Seen some of Muk's runs, he looks so defeated and is trying hard to keep his stream family friendly, especially once he realised the 8 hours of wasted effort and how only the 1% is able to beat it and is asking to carry him, and how once done, he will never do this again. Which means honestly, once people have the Turtle, EoD is going to be such a dead zone. 
Essentially the final map we get in EoD, is a 50man Raid Map with mechanics even most raiders dislike and Anet's changes so far is them trying to make it stay that way. 

[TeeracK.3601]

Maybe if most of the community is not only failing this event but feeling like the event isnt fun or fair,  then the events design as is, is just a failure and it's best to get over it and make a correction. 

 

People dont like to get on a game and dedicate hours for literally nothing. Do you think anyone will be doing this event as is in 3 months? It's already a struggle go get people in a group just to do a bounty for the griffon mount lol. You expect people to come back to this map?

 

I wouldn't worry about preserving a sense of epicness either since this fight has the same kind of vibe as drsgonstorm lorewise.

Edited March 6, 2022 by TeeracK.3601

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

yet we still cant beat it, i dont enjoy spending 2 hours on a map just to fail it. its a bad design

[Snowlock.3841]

9 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Seen some of Muk's runs, he looks so defeated and is trying hard to keep his stream family friendly, especially once he realised the 8 hours of wasted effort and how only the 1% is able to beat it and is asking to carry him, and how once done, he will never do this again.

 

After hours of failing the DE meta, he switched to Elden Ring.  He's now fighting a huge dragon *cough* and dying as he learns the encounter, but he's laughing and meming and having fun, and each attempt is quick to jump back into.  At one point he said, "This is exciting!"  The contrast between this and the DE meta stream is just insane.

 

I think what we're seeing, is we're all emotionally invested in the game's ending so we want this to work, but Anet doesn't have the staff or the design chops to make good content any more, and they absolutely cannot read a room or admit the encounter they made doesn't fit open world constraints at all.  There are too many other great games out right now and not enough patience to go around for this ridiculous nonsense.

[Wraith.3524]

Failed a bunch and no turtle, no time to wait around pray I get into capable maps.

 

That combined with Jade Bot upgrades being per character in an otherwise very alt-friendly game, kinda pushes me away from playing .

 

The encounter is neat and all but the turtle being behind it is a bummer. I do appreciate the 'difficulty' I guess, but a core bullet point of the xpac is in the wrong place imo.

[Katreyn.4218]

I honestly enjoy this fight and I like the mechanics.  It is very long and drawn out with the pres and then the fight.  The length + chance of failure is utterly devastating though.  First time in a long time in this game that I feel like I actually wasted my time doing something.  Even launch Dragon Stand wasn't that bad to me (even with the crashing).

The saddest part for me is I know the mechanics and understand them and can do them appropriately.  But you can never guarantee everyone else in there is going to.  Heck, look at the first fist pound she does and the amount of downs from that alone (though its honestly easy to forget something like that initial attack because you have potential hour of pre events to get to that spot).  

Past couple attempts I've seen her just flying across the arena like 5 -6 times in a row too though.  

Edit:  As of March 6th I did finally get a awesome PUG bringing their A game with some good commanders and we beat it (it was a close one)!

Edited March 7, 2022 by Katreyn.4218

[dly.2485]

3 minutes ago, Katreyn.4218 said:

I honestly enjoy this fight and I like the mechanics.  It is very long and drawn out with the pres and then the fight.  The length + chance of failure is utterly devastating though.  First time in a long time in this game that I feel like I actually wasted my time doing something.

 

The saddest part for me is I know the mechanics and understand them and can do them appropriately.  But you can never guarantee everyone else in there is going to.  Heck look at the first fist pound she does and the amount of downs from that alone (though its honestly easy to forget something like that initial attack because you have 2 hrs of pre events to get to that spot).  

 

Past couple attempts I've seen her just flying across the arena like 5 -6 times in a row too though.  

 

Exactly, I actually really like Long content, like the Drizzlewood Full Map Meta. That can take ~2 hours sometimes, But its fun and I know that I will get good rewards at least in materials and the 2 chest runs after each respective section. the rewards generally in EoD seem very low.

[White Knight.5970]

It is now 9pm started at 3pm did it 3-4 times rng wiped every single time. She either moves 3 times and we spend more time running to punch her or that kitten tail shows up at 2% with 1 minute left.

 

I get this is supposed to be a grand finaley and as a game designer this is challenging and fun but this isn't open world pve this is raid level content.

 

Design wise I belive that that it needs another 5 minutes on the timer, or if you finish the pre events early add some extra time to the timer.

It should also be done is phases like the other world bosses/meta events.

 

I belive the tail needs some work. We could possibly have it in phase 4 phases were when the group defeats it once the tail will only have 75% health into phase 2, 50% into phase 3 and once phase 4 hits it stays at 25%.

 

The rng, by Balthazars beard this is not good. Agin I believe the best way to fix this with out changing the mechanics or difficulty is to have it in phases like the other world bosses/meta events.

 

 

 

[artar.2759]

Here's a wild suggestion.

 

Just remove the timer for the last main fight.

 

Shocking, I know.  That way the people who put in all those hours of work still get to win, and you can leave the broken things in that people are mad about, and you still get your nonconsensual raid vibe.  Not every meta has a fail timer.  Just remove it.  People get fed up and leave, ok fine.  But the people who are willing to actually stay and grunt through it an extra 5 10 or 30 minutes cause the map is bugging or something?  They still can beat it.  That way it may take longer, and headaches, but everyone is satisfied.

 

It's not nerfed, it's just not losable - provided you don't give up.

 

Map tonight had people asking inexperienced players to leave the zone...  And then some people didn't know what was happening...  Risen was filled too fast again, and 2 elements reset.  Map chat went agro.  Somehow, still beat that phase.  Didn't get past the 2 champs you burn together.  And boy howdy were the trolls sure to tell people too.

 

Until this is changed somehow, I'm done with this meta for now.  If I luck into one doing map completion or story, or someone asks me, sure.  but no more seeking it out.  And I don't need to say what you can go do with your siege turtles.

[Gorem.8104]

49 minutes ago, Snowlock.3841 said:

 

After hours of failing the DE meta, he switched to Elden Ring.  He's now fighting a huge dragon *cough* and dying as he learns the encounter, but he's laughing and meming and having fun, and each attempt is quick to jump back into.  At one point he said, "This is exciting!"  The contrast between this and the DE meta stream is just insane.

 

I think what we're seeing, is we're all emotionally invested in the game's ending so we want this to work, but Anet doesn't have the staff or the design chops to make good content any more, and they absolutely cannot read a room or admit the encounter they made doesn't fit open world constraints at all.  There are too many other great games out right now and not enough patience to go around for this ridiculous nonsense.

That's the thing though, what EoD has done is show us that other games are better and more fun... EoD shoulda not released this year maybe idk, they failed the final meta and locked one of the expansions selling points behind it. Like, what exactly is Anet trying to do right now? Could just imagine the backlash raiders would have given them if failing a final boss in a raid set them back 2 or more hours and yet its ok to do that for an open world event where you can't decide who you are playing with? 

[Labjax.2465]

58 minutes ago, Snowlock.3841 said:

 

After hours of failing the DE meta, he switched to Elden Ring.  He's now fighting a huge dragon *cough* and dying as he learns the encounter, but he's laughing and meming and having fun, and each attempt is quick to jump back into.  At one point he said, "This is exciting!"  The contrast between this and the DE meta stream is just insane.

 

I think what we're seeing, is we're all emotionally invested in the game's ending so we want this to work, but Anet doesn't have the staff or the design chops to make good content any more, and they absolutely cannot read a room or admit the encounter they made doesn't fit open world constraints at all.  There are too many other great games out right now and not enough patience to go around for this ridiculous nonsense.

Idk what's with video game studios and refusing to just back down when they obviously made a mistake. It's like this industry has been gutted to the point that most of what's left is careerist manager types and many of the people in power who really cared about games and grew up doing MUDs and all that have been chased out, or retired by now. I know that prob sounds dramatic on my part about one game's new meta, but I've been watching this stuff for a long time, as I imagine have many other video game enthusiasts, and the pattern is rough to witness, much less try to play games in that space. I mean, I was horrified when I found out recently about the 2019 Anet layoffs, but also it's just another chapter in ongoing gutting and consolidating in this industry.

[OneAutumnLeaf.3915]

Just got it special thank to the squad and the special thanks commander sniper liliruca whose been trying it all day to get it