Turtle Mounts block view - ruining combat for others

[Hamfast.8719]

The addition of mounts put new life into GW2 for me, and significantly increased my game’s lifespan.   I haven’t tried End of Dragons yet, but what I do know is that the new Turtle mount is having the exact opposite effect for me.  Their appearance in the game is making me want to quit.

 

My problem?  Unlike all other mounts, Turtles apparently don’t disappear in combat the way all other mounts do, and they are just to darned BIG to see past.  I get the impression they’re supposed to be artillery, but I just spent a miserable evening being totally unable to see my targets past turtles clustering in the middle of  melee.  I mostly play ranged characters, and need to be able to pick out the most efficient center spot for my AoE attacks.  I often can’t see any bad guys at all now, since the turtles are bigger than most enemies.  I’m even getting temporarily blinded by the ones who aren’t in melee, as one tramples over my position.  I can very well imagine that melee characters would also be seriously hampered from being constantly buried underneath turtles.

 

This is a major, fundamental flaw in the way the Turtles seem to have been designed, and allowing them to remain on the field during combat should never have been implemented in the first place.  It’s game breaking for the rest of us ground-pounders.  I can’t select targets anymore, and I can’t see visual “tells” when an enemy is getting ready to release his big attack.  Something MUST be done about this.  They SHOULD disappear when the player enters combat mode, but I fear they were designed otherwise.

 

I don’t want to spoil the fun for the Turtle players, but their sheer bulk is a hinderance for everyone else.  I don’t want to complain in-game, because for every Turtle rider who says “OMG!  I’m so sorry… I didn’t realize!”, there’ll be one who thinks it’s an awesome trolling opportunity.

 

So those of you with turtles… will it totally ruin their functionality if they disappear when you enter combat mode like all the other mounts?  Are they supposed to be GW2’s first combat mount instead of merely transportation with a one-shot first attack?  If so, what might be done to keep them playable for you, while not making the fight harder for everyone else?  Restrict turtles to Cantha?  (Ouch, I know!).  What about adding a check-box if you want to make other people’s turtles Invisible to you when they’re in combat mode?  Perhaps only allow them to remain active on the battlefield in instances, and not in the open world?  Or maybe just make it obvious that they really suck at melee combat, so even a beginner will keep their turtle distant?

 

Like I said, I don’t know anything about the Turtles.  Those of you who do will have to figure out the solution.  I’m just pointing out what I find to be a major, major problem.  I hope a solution can be found, because if this continues much longer I’m afraid I’ll finally have to call it quits.  It’s way too stressful being constantly blocked out of the combat by my own comrades.  And if not disappearing in combat the way all other mounts do is supposed to be “working as intended”, then I fear they’ve made a fundamental mistake that will be hard to rectify to everyone’s satisfaction.

[Parzival.9340]

Agree.

[mgghost.4038]

4 hours ago, Hamfast.8719 said:

...

Like I said, I don’t know anything about the Turtles.  Those of you who do will have to figure out the solution.  I’m just pointing out what I find to be a major, major problem.  I hope a solution can be found, because if this continues much longer I’m afraid I’ll finally have to call it quits.  It’s way too stressful being constantly blocked out of the combat by my own comrades.  And if not disappearing in combat the way all other mounts do is supposed to be “working as intended”, then I fear they’ve made a fundamental mistake that will be hard to rectify to everyone’s satisfaction.

 

This is "working as intended".

In contrast to all other Pets the Turtle is made to stay in fights and use its attacks.

But as all other Pets it's only usable in open world and not in instanced areas.

It's main attack from the gunner is long range but it have even a leap & melee attack for the "driver".

With the higher mastery's the "driver attack" is even used to refuel the ammunition of the long range attack, so i think as for now we will see more "turtle balls" as more and more player get a turtle.

 

For me the only "workaround" i found atm is to tab for targets and use the "snap to target" option for ground attacks.

But i like your idea of getting the option to make other players turtle invisible.

I hope anet get some solution for this.

Edited March 8, 2022 by mgghost.4038

[Doomfrost.5728]

Maybe add a graphic option called "Mount transparency" that would decrease the models viewability as it gets closer to large groups. The option would be a slider to let the user control how drastic the transparency effect is.  RTS games do this all the time when units are obscured by large objects. I'm in favor of making sure combat readability is maintained in open world content. 

[Stelawrat.6589]

4 hours ago, mgghost.4038 said:

 

This is "working as intended".

In contrast to all other Pets the Turtle is made to stay in fights and use its attacks.

But as all other Pets it's only usable in open world and not in instanced areas.

It's main attack from the gunner is long range but it have even a leap & melee attack for the "driver".

With the higher mastery's the "driver attack" is even used to refuel the ammunition of the long range attack, so i think as for now we will see more "turtle balls" as more and more player get a turtle.

 

For me the only "workaround" i found atm is to tab for targets and use the "snap to target" option for ground attacks.

But i like your idea of getting the option to make other players turtle invisible.

I hope anet get some solution for this.

I experienced this yesterday in Queensdale. I just waited for the 2 turtles to get out of the way... 🤨

Really disappointed to read that this is working as intended. Hopefully the novelty of turtles will wear off sooner rather than later. 

Why ArenaNet didn't just resurrect the DWARVES I'll never understand, or forgive them for... 😔

[BlueJin.4127]

Turtles are obstructing visibility in combat, making it hard to see spell effects obstructing visibility in combat. 😐

[EMPI.4013]

The turtles fade if they're standing on you. How Is your view obstructed? Unless you're complaining about even the fading. At which point feels a bit petty. The skyscale also blocks views, and it doesn't even fade when obstructing the camera. Saying it's only the turtle doesn't compute.

Edited March 8, 2022 by EMPI.4013

[Doggie.3184]

28 minutes ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

Turtles are obstructing visibility in combat, making it hard to see spell effects obstructing visibility in combat. 😐

^ so much this XD

This game's long overdue for options to hide other people's effects and other visual noise. It probably needs a whole options tab dedicated to it.

Like; I did the new strike mission for the turtle for example~ and we finished it fine and all but I didn't really enjoy the fight much because I could not see anything that was going on because of all the effects. I could barely see the ground telegraphs of the boss.

As I've mentioned in past on here somewhere. FFXIV literally lets me add a button to my hotbar to turn other people's effects off and on. It makes huge raids/'world bosses'/etc highly enjoyable compared to how they'd be otherwise with 20-50+ people.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[lilcoffeebean.3762]

2 hours ago, EMPI.4013 said:

The turtles fade if they're standing on you. How Is your view obstructed? Unless you're complaining about even the fading. At which point feels a bit petty. The skyscale also blocks views, and it doesn't even fade when obstructing the camera. Saying it's only the turtle doesn't compute.

 

"Turtles apparently don't disappear in combat"

"I mostly play ranged characters"

"unable to see my targets  past the turtles clustering in the middle of  melee"

 

Reading's hard...

 

[DaFishBob.6518]

Known for months before this expansion pack got released that this could be an issue. It was a concern dismissed due to turtle dps being extremely low compared an actual character but that doesn't stop trolls or really improperly built characters from wanting to use turtle dps.

[Khisanth.2948]

The turtles are already nearly fully transparent... at least when you are not in a group with them.

53 minutes ago, DaFishBob.6518 said:

Known for months before this expansion pack got released that this could be an issue. It was a concern dismissed due to turtle dps being extremely low compared an actual character but that doesn't stop trolls or really improperly built characters from wanting to use turtle dps.

Trolls? How is that any different from all the other reasons people have low DPS?

[DaFishBob.6518]

38 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The turtles are already nearly fully transparent... at least when you are not in a group with them.

Trolls? How is that any different from all the other reasons people have low DPS?

Trolls means it's more intentional than other reasons.

Why did you have to ask?

Edited March 9, 2022 by DaFishBob.6518

[Khisanth.2948]

36 minutes ago, DaFishBob.6518 said:

Trolls means it's more intentional than other reasons.

Why did you have to ask?

The result is the same. You seem to be implying one reason is somehow okay while the other is not.

[DaFishBob.6518]

1 hour ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The result is the same. You seem to be implying one reason is somehow okay while the other is not.

I only pointed out those two reasons because they exist as reasons why people would melee with turtles instead sticking to character skills. Implications of acceptability are irrelevant.

[Sirius.4510]

Maybe the fading effect that you see when they're near you isn't aggressive enough for combat purposes. It might need to include a frustum between the camera, player character, and selected target as well...

[Fuchslein.8639]

I would not be mad when we had not just reduce player-models, but also a option to reduce mount-models seperatly.

Because player-model reduce also interferes a bit with raidbosses, what is just so annoying.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Cynder.2509]

When it's blocking your view just get a turtle yourself 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️
It's not that hard 

[AgentMoore.9453]

I think it's a step in the right direction that they added a proximity fade to the turts, but what we really need is a show/hide option for mounts full stop. Trust me, getting buried in a sea of flapping Skyscale wings isn't making the gem store look any sexier, and half the time the game's shaky optimization ensures they don't load in with the correct skins anyway. That the Siege Turtle can be persistently used in combat makes this request even more urgent imo, as the fade straight up will not trigger if you're playing from range.

[Hamfast.8719]

One time while waiting on the World Boss I asked very politely in-game if Turtle riders would please hang back and use RANGED, since (from what I read on the Forum) that's what they're best at.  I explained that the rest of us have troubles seeing the target and timing dodges, etc.  This immediately resulted in an explosion of Turtles being mounted and running around in an orgy of defiance and laughter at little ol' me.  I didn't say another word, not wanting to make it worse, but I did see other players agreeing with me in chat.  (I personally LOL offline whenever the Golem Mark II puts up his electric fields, or Tequatl's Fingers launch their poison, which pretty quickly accomplishes what I want anyway.  Turtles die or flee the zerg and I can see again).

 

I know "change" fixes take awhile in this game.  I've been hanging in there, trying to find ways to live with this since Turtles aren't going to go away.  From what I read in the Forums, people understand that for the most part Turtles aren't particularly useful in non-Cantha open world, especially in melee and with no gunner.  So I'm hoping the novelty will wear off before I completely give up on the game.  There will always be new Turtle riders testing their mount, and there will often be trolls looking to stir up trouble, so this has to be an ANet fix.

 

Any other thoughts on how to fix this without nerfing the Turtle riders' enjoyment?

 

I really want a "Make other players' Turtles invisible" drop-box with choices for "Never/When in Combat/Always".  (My preference would be ALWAYS, because they block vision in town just as much as in combat).  This needs to be TRUE INVISIBILITY as per the effect, not the "object collision" invisibility.  You know... where the Turtle and rider appear as a wavy disturbance in the air, like the movie Predator.  Currently, the Turtle fade takes a second or two, which is way too long to be blinded in combat.  It's very disturbing, especially now when they're new and running all over the place.

 

What about a "Down In Front!" solution?  If someone tall sits in front of me at the movie theater, it would be just as effective if they were shorter instead of invisible.  Would it be better if we had a drop-down choice for Turtles to appear smaller instead of invisible?  No bigger than a Norn or a Charr?  I often throw AoE healing at people when enemy AoE targeting effects appear underneath them.  I'm more likely to help a Turtle this way if I can actually see him.  Besides, it'd be good for a laugh.  The Teeny-Tiny Turtle Toggle!  THE TORDIS (Half Tortoise, half TARDIS - bigger on the inside than on the outside).

[Tails.9372]

2 minutes ago, Hamfast.8719 said:

I asked very politely in-game if Turtle riders would please hang back and use RANGED, since (from what I read on the Forum) that's what they're best at.

Don't know who told you that but the one using the turtle can not use the cannons, if standing on a hill and spamming artillery from range would be an option for the drivers then I have no doubt that this would be what most of them would do.

[Westenev.5289]

What if turtles were smaller?

 

Tbh, I kinda see this as a non issue since melee is basically rng since the ground became a multicoloured strobe light. At least ranged players have the option of blind tab targeting...

Edited March 20, 2022 by Westenev.5289

[Hamfast.8719]

Here's a sample of the "fading"... this is not in combat.  It is just my character standing around (in the dashed yellow oval) and a "fully faded" turtle.  I can barely see my character at all, much less anything else on the screen.  Imagine this in the thick of combat.  We need true "invisibility" (as per the standard game effect for invisible allies), and we need an option to have the invisibility "Never", "In Combat Only", or "Always".

https://i.imgur.com/5AHmCVw.jpg

 

(Crossing my fingers... I used to post tons of pics, but haven't done so on the new forum yet).

[Despot.3048]

Id go get your eyes checked. Your character is very much visible. 

[DaFishBob.6518]

18 minutes ago, Hamfast.8719 said:

Here's a sample of the "fading"... this is not in combat.  It is just my character standing around (in the dashed yellow oval) and a "fully faded" turtle.  I can barely see my character at all, much less anything else on the screen.  Imagine this in the thick of combat.  We need true "invisibility" (as per the standard game effect for invisible allies), and we need an option to have the invisibility "Never", "In Combat Only", or "Always".

https://i.imgur.com/5AHmCVw.jpg

 

(Crossing my fingers... I used to post tons of pics, but haven't done so on the new forum yet).

For a moment I thought there was some kind of lava wurm in the background. Turns out it was one of the characters on the mount, and the character is completely solid even though the turtle has faded. Going to be a disaster for visual clarity when events requiring turtles are released.

[Ashantara.8731]

Yes, Siege Turtles are supposed to be combat mounts. And yes, they do add to the visual clutter and ruin the gameplay experience on most maps.

ANet should implement a maximum number of 4 that can be used within vicinity and completely make them inaccessible on all maps except Dragon's End and Drizzlewood Coast.