Anet, The longer you stall the adjustments to DE meta the worse it will get

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, difens.1326 said:

So it's still RNG - this time affecting group composition

The group composition is not RNG. It takes proper planning, preferably on voice chat (which we had yesterday), and 49 players' ability to adjust so that all required roles are filled.

If people are not willing to invest the effort or to play raid meta builds, then the encounter can barely be mastered. And that's obviously what ANet aimed for with this map meta, which makes me believe that there will be new raid wings added in the foreseeable future and that this meta is their training ground, alongside the new Strikes.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[NumNums.7935]

4 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

The group composition is not RNG. It takes proper planning, preferably on voice chat (which we had yesterday), and 49 players' ability to adjust so that all required roles are filled.

I like this, this is what the game needs is more of this but the issue is the delivery of it.

 

Open wold map that isn't instanced forces users who may not enjoy this level of coordination or difficulty of content to unlock a mount, or even get snippets of lore that I view as important for understanding chapter 13.

 

Mmo's have a diverse group of players and not all of them want or cared about mechanical expertise, and optizing their own damage let alone building to support a group. Some are roleplayers, fashion players, have an hour or two to play 3 days of the week dads/moms.

 

From a business perspective Anet should consider these things. For the gamers with more time to game and a drive for harder content Anet needs to consider where to deliver that.

 

My personal opinion is this kind of content is awesome, but like I said instance it. If its instance then reuse the same map/assets and maybe even challenge modes of it.

[Shadows Creed.3902]

If they add 3 mins to the timer literally think it solves 90% of callouts

 

That or make sub phases separate timer like in Teq

 

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid attacking/fighting each other. I've removed a few posts.

Regards.

[Shadows Creed.3902]

25 minutes ago, Forum Moderator.5021 said:

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid attacking/fighting each other. I've removed a few posts.

Regards.

Might want to remind that in the LFGs as well

[Mungo Zen.9364]

9 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

But even that isn't the point. It's that gw2efficiency represents a smaller subset of players. Even one third is generous. Active players on gw2efficiency probably make up 10% or less of active players in general. Enough to get a rough idea but enough and not diverse enough to qualify as representative. 

I like using comparisons for statistics from GW2E to get a better picture.  While there are 350k+ accounts, there are far fewer actually active in current content.

Old Friends - 90,041 of 354,896 (25.371%) - How many accounts have started the EoD Story (Escort Gorrik to Ankka)
The Only One - 36,252 of 354,896 (10.215%) - How many accounts finished the EoD Story
True Ending - 24,240 of 354,896 (6.830%) - How many accounts attempted DE Meta before finishing the Story
Dragon Pacifier - 13,352 of 354,896 (3.762%) - How many accounts succeeded in finishing the DE Meta
Siege Turtle - 7,274 of 365,013 (1.993%) - How many accounts have gone on to finish the Turtle

GW2E information, of course, comes with caveats regarding the quality of the data it collects and provides and the users who submit this information.  I am usually left feeling that GW2E only proves it doesn't have valid statistics to draw any real conclusions from.  It is far safer than assuming this does provide accurate info.

However, we do know that 90k unique accounts started EoD story and logged that to GW2E.  This at least tells us how many of the 350k accounts have been active in the EoD story. 

Draw your own conclusions from there, your mileage may vary.

 

As to the OP, it isn't getting worse for me, I have already reached the point of not caring about EoD.  As a player I wanted to enjoy EoD and, the story was quite fine, but the Open World is a joke.  The bugs and issues in all 4 zones have led me to wasting a lot of time not enjoying this game, not getting rewards, not finishing events/metas/achievements.  So much so that I have stopped logging in daily to just waste a few hours playing this game.

I do not trust that my time spent playing EoD content will be rewarded with a good playing experience.  Rather I expect to run into bugs and issues beyond my control that will waste my time and ruin my enjoyment.

I do have hope that, at some point, the issues will be addressed and then I can enjoy EoD as intended, rather than worrying about when I am going to get screwed out of enjoying my time playing the game.

 

EDIT - an hour later....

Dragon Pacifier - 15,045 of 355,090 (4.237%)

This number just went up since I posted earlier.  I am guessing GW2E updated it's logs for the daily cycle.  The DE Meta changes have helped some players complete the Meta.  Is it enough?

Edited March 9, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Deihnyx.6318]

People aren't going to "convince" anyone with bad faith arguments:

10 days isn't long
Anet did make a statement
They did make changes
These changes are making it easier.
These are all facts.

Are these changes enough? Again, part of their statement. They're looking into it. It takes time for success rate to turn from "figuring things out" to "regular success rate". That's the reason why it's not an "immediate" change.

This drama is non-sensical, and the pain some players are feeling is entirely self-imposed. You can voice your opinion without getting mad about it. Just do something else. There's plenty to do, you don't have to make stuff up it won't get you what you want faster.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Deihnyx.6318

[Firebeard.1746]

After a certain point, failure rates will go up because I honestly think that even for people who pass, it's going to be a 1 and done event and I imagine the groups that pass have more boon supports and raid-level DPSers, and at some point, they'll stop showing up and it will become everyone in soldier's trying to beat a DPS timer XD. I don't even really care that much about the turtle. And honestly, I feel done trying. The amount of discouragement and unfun I've felt over my 4 failed attempts has had me questioning my commitment to this game. OW is supposed to be more about the experience, than a challenge. Make a 50-man instanced soo-won with double the gen3 legendary rewards and see if hardcore players really love it and do it and nerf the OW version. But even my first attempt at echovald wasn't that great (though I had to pull out because my baby needed my care, but I know they failed from map comments after). It feels awful failing a meta with that many people. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Taygus.4571]

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

The group composition is not RNG. It takes proper planning, preferably on voice chat (which we had yesterday), and 49 players' ability to adjust so that all required roles are filled.

If people are not willing to invest the effort or to play raid meta builds, then the encounter can barely be mastered. And that's obviously what ANet aimed for with this map meta, which makes me believe that there will be new raid wings added in the foreseeable future and that this meta is their training ground, alongside the new Strikes.

Its actually not lack of willingness.  This level of organisation is unrealistic for a **public** map. If they want this, they need to allow guilds to make a private instance of the map. Then you can control, who enters, how many of each class, their build AND garantuee that your entire squad can enter the map and not need to bully out other players or try to force create a new map.

 

I have nothing against 50 man raids, they could be fun... but public maps with randoms isn't the place for it.

[Deihnyx.6318]

1 minute ago, Taygus.4571 said:

Its actually not lack of willingness.  This level of organisation is unrealistic for a **public** map. If they want this, they need to allow guilds to make a private instance of the map. Then you can control, who enters, how many of each class, their build AND garantuee that your entire squad can enter the map and not need to bully out other players or try to force create a new map.

 

I have nothing against 50 man raids, they could be fun... but public maps with randoms isn't the place for it.

What is Triple Trouble then?

[Ashantara.8731]

2 minutes ago, Taygus.4571 said:

Its actually not lack of willingness.  This level of organisation is unrealistic for a **public** map.

I wasn't judging, I merely stated the facts of the current status quo of the meta and listed the standards required to succeed (which were set by ANet, not me 😉).

[Taygus.4571]

1 minute ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

What is Triple Trouble then?

Something rhats actually not hard to do with some small organisation,  and Im not even sure how often its still done. Ive only done it once and my point stands, if they want to force a high level of organisation,  it shouldnt be public with randoms

[NumNums.7935]

3 minutes ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

What is Triple Trouble then?

 A very easy open world meta 🙂

[Deihnyx.6318]

5 minutes ago, Taygus.4571 said:

Something rhats actually not hard to do with some small organisation,  and Im not even sure how often its still done. Ive only done it once and my point stands, if they want to force a high level of organisation,  it shouldnt be public with randoms

I would argue that you didn't try when it first came out, same with Teq or AB or TD. Even a year later guilds were still fishing for empty map and prepping 30 minutes ahead of event.

And I will stress that argument again: This kind of content connects people with a common goal, have them talk to each other, organize and strategize, get some guilds to be seen as very helpful, it does a lot of good socially for an MMO and it matters long term.

When there was a legit reason to nerf they always did it. They will do it again. We just need to give them time.

PS: If you think Triple Trouble was easy 10 days in you have no business criticizing EoD. Triple Trouble was never easy unless you had organized maps, and even then it could fail initially.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Deihnyx.6318
PS

[SmoovRihx.2789]

Casuals: "this fight is too hard"

 

Hardcore players: "casuals are to blame"

 

One hates on the game mechanic.

The other hates on the people.

 

A fundamental difference.

 

You can't expect casuals to sit back and let you trash them with such condescending tropes about how they play, when all they tried to do is get the fight changed, they didn't ASK raiders to change the way they play, but raiders are definitely asking casuals to do such thing. Not sure how this is confusing to people.

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by SmoovRihx.2789

[NumNums.7935]

2 minutes ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

I would argue that you didn't try when it first came out, same with Teq or AB or TD. Even a year later guilds were still fishing for empty map and prepping 30 minutes ahead of event.

And I will stress that argument again: This kind of content connects people with a common goal, have them talk to each other, organize and strategize, get some guilds to be seen as very helpful, it does a lot of good socially for an MMO and it matters long term.

When there was a legit reason to nerf they always did it. They will do it again. We just need to give them time.

PS: If you think Triple Trouble was easy 10 days in you have no business criticizing EoD. Triple Trouble was never easy unless you had organized maps, and even then it could fail initially.

Using other examples of bad design to justify bad design. hmm that's brilliant.

 

As far as I am aware those events can be triggered by "Guild World Event" schematics, so just schedule your event when it is not peak hours. In a perfect world these events would be instanced to allow full control.

[mythical.6315]

All they’ve guaranteed is that a large percentage of players will never do the meta again, even after nerfed, when they get all that they need for it because the current design for it has ruined the meta for them. 
 

Yes… it’s the culmination of the past 10 years of story.   Why does that mean it has to be significantly more challenging than anything else released for the story over that time?  Why couldn’t they focus on making a fun and epic meta instead?  One that players would want to continually do. 

[Taygus.4571]

2 minutes ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

I would argue that you didn't try when it first came out, same with Teq or AB or TD. Even a year later guilds were still fishing for empty map and prepping 30 minutes ahead of event.

And I will stress that argument again: This kind of content connects people with a common goal, have them talk to each other, organize and strategize, get some guilds to be seen as very helpful, it does a lot of good socially for an MMO and it matters long term.

When there was a legit reason to nerf they always did it. They will do it again. We just need to give them time.

PS: If you think Triple Trouble was easy 10 days in you have no business criticizing EoD. Triple Trouble was never easy unless you had organized maps, and even then it could fail initially.

And I would have said that what I say now. This level of organisation with randoms is unrealistic. 

 

Trying to force a map to open so you can garantuee your squad can run together for a 50 man  raid because ANET wont implement private instances, which they can do.. is rediculous. 

 

they want 50 man raids like FF14 and WoW then they need to allow them to be private.

 

They also nerfed, Teq, AB and TD...because that level with randoms is unrealistic...dont know about TTT, but seeing as thats core content it probably feels nerfed now, with the elite specs.

[yoni.7015]

1 minute ago, SmoovRihx.2789 said:

Casuals: "this fight is too hard"

 

Hardcore players: "casuals are to blame"

 

One hates on the game mechanic.

The other hates in the people.

 

A fundamental difference.

 

You can't expect casuals to sit back and let you trash them with such condescending tropes about how they play.

 

That statement is simply not true. 

[yoni.7015]

1 minute ago, mythical.6315 said:

All they’ve guaranteed is that a large percentage of players will never do the meta again, even after nerfed, when they get all that they need for it because the current design for it has ruined the meta for them. 

Where do you get that “large percentage of players” from? I’m curious. 

[NumNums.7935]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

Where do you get that “large percentage of players” from? I’m curious. 

 

From the runs I have done its starting to look like most are hovering uninstall buttons. I think the issue is that there are people who succeed and people who dont. Some of the people not succeeding have been trying to organized and work on it the best they can but still end up failing. That breaks people, and by this being a open world meta with lore and a mastery behind it, it could make them feel that they are not good enough.

 

Tie that to the other side of players who love the challenge of it, say all you have to do is organize or learn the fight or join my streamer advertisement discord.

 

Tbh..... this hole situation is stupid, kinda feeling like quiting the game now.

[Deihnyx.6318]

10 minutes ago, SmoovRihx.2789 said:

Casuals: "this fight is too hard"

 

Hardcore players: "casuals are to blame"

 

One hates on the game mechanic.

The other hates on the people.

 

A fundamental difference.

 

You can't expect casuals to sit back and let you trash them with such condescending tropes about how they play, when all they tried to do is get the fight changed, they didn't ASK raiders to change the way they play, but raiders are definitely asking casuals to do such thing. Not sure how this is confusing to people.

 

I rest my case on the amount of bad faith of this topic.

And ironically, it makes you appear as the one hating on people.

And also because, for a lot of people on that thread -not all- you're framing this meta as being factually bad,  when it's in fact just an opinion and many people like it as well.

 

10 minutes ago, NumNums.7935 said:

Using other examples of bad design to justify bad design. hmm that's brilliant.

Again not factual, your opinion. There is an argument that keeps being ignored that has to do with the nature itself of a game. It's an MMO, it makes sense to have meaningful interactions with one another. Having to organize map is not "bad design". You don't like it, that's fair, but understand that many other people use it as a way connect with other players. You trying to remove all these experiences is hurting these players, while you already have so much content that matches what you like.

On the other end a "dragonstorm" you barely do anything that a single player game couldn't do, except maybe take a crap on Braham for 15 minutes and laughing about it.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Deihnyx.6318

[Firebeard.1746]

22 minutes ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

What is Triple Trouble then?

Triple Trouble isn't as hard as this. Nor does it pass frequently enough that I would argue it's worth gating an expansion defining feature behind. It only passes when the dedicated guilds do it. The DPS reqs on TT are no where near as high as Dragon's end. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Deihnyx.6318]

2 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Triple Trouble isn't as hard as this. Nor does it pass frequently enough that I would argue it's worth gating an expansion defining feature behind. It only passes when the dedicated guilds do it. The DPS reqs on TT are no where near as high as Dragon's end. 

Overall I think this is the one fair point that both casual and more dedicated players can agree on. The turtle didn't need to be tied behind this meta.
But I see a lot of criticism about the meta itself and how Anet takes too long to "fix". Because they can't fathom the fact that this was the original vision.
If it's broken, if it really is harder than they meant, they will fix it in time, they always did.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Deihnyx.6318

[Cameryn.5310]

1 minute ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Triple Trouble isn't as hard as this.

 

Honestly, NOTHING in the game is as hard *and unrewarding* as a failed Dragon's End meta.

This is the real problem nobody wants to talk about... it's really tough for open world groups, and we can debate back and forth on whether it's too hard or not (I think it is), but there's NOTHING to show for failing it.  From start to finish, we're talking about an hour or more.

I'm leveling my second character through Cantha because I did the DE meta four times on my primary character, and failed four times, once with literally about 1% of health left.  Got nothing.  That was soul crushing, so I gave up, hoping that at some point they'll nerf the whole thing.  And I guarantee you I'm FAR from alone in doing that.