Yolomouse=Ban?

[mindcircus.1506]

7 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

This is just slippery slope reasoning. Raiders commonly use addons in MMOs to track DPS. Do they then get into an arms race of more and more addons? No.

Typical pointing finger at Raiders for addons that break the game.

TACO is far more game breaking than ArcDPS ever was.

[Stalima.5490]

9 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

This is just slippery slope reasoning. Raiders commonly use addons in MMOs to track DPS. Do they then get into an arms race of more and more addons? No.

3rd party tools that break intended game mechanics or otherwise change how your character works in a way that is reflected in the live world are where I would expect most MMOs to draw the line. Things like speed hacking or whatever. I forget which term it is offhand, client or server, there's one of those you usually don't want to cross the line on. Think it might be server, like if you are crossing that line, you're messing with how the game operates in a way that can be perceived by other players and can impact them, not just doing client QOL stuff on your end.

You need only look at world of warcraft to see the truth in what I said, it started with dps meters, then an addon that tells you what boss mechanics, then an addon that basically dispelled for you, then an addon that told you what buttons to press to dps, then an addon that told you exactly where to stand...

When addons get to this degree, things start getting rediculous so you kinda have to hit them early to stop the case of people basically being the equivilent botting without the ai of botting.

See, you have to understand that losing your cursor is part of the skill in playing the game so if you take that possibility away then you have essentially just reduced the skill required to play the game via a 3rd party tool.

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 hour ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Typical pointing finger at Raiders for addons that break the game.

TACO is far more game breaking than ArcDPS ever was.

As someone who uses Taco for mindless world completion I have to agree with you…. 😔
 

It does make it tolerable though, so there is that…. 🥴

Edited March 17, 2022 by Strider Pj.2193

[Scavarius.6059]

i renember reading that thirt party software is technicaly not allowed. but that was almost 10 years ago. atm its more a "you can use it if you want, but if our servers cough up some error you're banned".

[Vanthian.9267]

18 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

The part where it gets sketchy is that literally any 3rd party tool you use to make life easier in a game gives you an advantage, you wouldn't bother using such things if it did not, and if someone uses one third party tool there is an high likelyhood that they will start using more.

Generally you would want zero tolerance on 3rd party tools because it becomes a sort of arms race to see what people can get away with without triggering action.

And lo, he was hated because he spoke the truth. 

[Hesione.9412]

2 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

You need only look at world of warcraft to see the truth in what I said, it started with dps meters, then an addon that tells you what boss mechanics, then an addon that basically dispelled for you, then an addon that told you what buttons to press to dps, then an addon that told you exactly where to stand...

When addons get to this degree, things start getting rediculous so you kinda have to hit them early to stop the case of people basically being the equivilent botting without the ai of botting.

See, you have to understand that losing your cursor is part of the skill in playing the game so if you take that possibility away then you have essentially just reduced the skill required to play the game via a 3rd party tool.

Yes, being able to see the position of your cursor is just like having macros with multiple commands. Being able to see your cursor gives that player an unfair advantage over other players. Being able to see your cursor is just like botting.

 

Really? That's the "argument"?

[Stalima.5490]

2 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Yes, being able to see the position of your cursor is just like having macros with multiple commands. Being able to see your cursor gives that player an unfair advantage over other players. Being able to see your cursor is just like botting.

 

Really? That's the "argument"?

More or less, after all, how many seemingly non-problem things does it take before something becomes a problem?

 

It's sort of like if they increased the damage in the game by 1% every week, after 4 or 5 weeks it wouldn't really matter much, maybe even after 10 weeks you'd still be to just ignore it mostly but one year later you'd be doing over 50% more damage and then everyone would be complaining on the forums about everything being too powerful when nobody complained about the initial non-issue.

[Hesione.9412]

We are talking about being able to see your mouse cursor. None of the things you have mentioned are relevant to being able to see your mouse cursor. Anet has provided a mouse cursor, it's just it gets lost for some of us. If Anet intended that no player be able to see the mouse cursor, then the mouse cursor would be completely absent from the game.

[Vayne.8563]

Realistically no one is banned for using Yolomouse because there's no way to detect it's use. It's just an overlay. It's not even specifically for Guild Wars 2. It's a program that changes the mouse cursor in windows.  It's a great program, which I use from time to time. There's zero reason for Anet to ban people for using Yolo Mouse.

[Tukaram.8256]

9 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

That'd be great.  I'd rather not have to find third-party solutions to things that should be basic UI elements.  However, GW2 has a weird fetish for their simple UI with few customization options.  I don't understand it, but at least they seem to be okay with overlays for players who want to use them.  It's better than nothing.

I do wish we could customize our UI.  Not to add anything, but to remove some of the clutter and arrange it in a more logical way. I have never felt that anything was missing, I want to declutter what we already have. 😎

[Tukaram.8256]

...double post... Darn you glitchy interwebs. 😎

Edited March 18, 2022 by Tukaram.8256

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

You need only look at world of warcraft to see the truth in what I said, it started with dps meters, then an addon that tells you what boss mechanics, then an addon that basically dispelled for you, then an addon that told you what buttons to press to dps, then an addon that told you exactly where to stand...

When addons get to this degree, things start getting rediculous so you kinda have to hit them early to stop the case of people basically being the equivilent botting without the ai of botting.

See, you have to understand that losing your cursor is part of the skill in playing the game so if you take that possibility away then you have essentially just reduced the skill required to play the game via a 3rd party tool.

But WoW has always had more difficult content than GW2?  Also, lots of players who play both games find GW2's purposefully limited UI annoying whereas WoW there's really no way to be annoyed with it as literally everything about it is mod-able.  When I used to play WoW not a single bit of my UI wasn't custom, but if you weren't trying to spend hours customizing your UI you could always just download one of the many popular mod packages other players put together.  It was really convenient.

[Stalima.5490]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

But WoW has always had more difficult content than GW2?  Also, lots of players who play both games find GW2's purposefully limited UI annoying whereas WoW there's really no way to be annoyed with it as literally everything about it is mod-able.  When I used to play WoW not a single bit of my UI wasn't custom, but if you weren't trying to spend hours customizing your UI you could always just download one of the many popular mod packages other players put together.  It was really convenient.

I'm pretty sure the only thing more difficult in WoW is the mythic raid and well, I don't even know why they bothered putting that difficulty in the game, there's even a pretty direct correlation between the decline of the games quality and additional raiding modes.  I generally only did up to heroic purely because mythic was inaccessable and by that time I'd already be tired of the raid anyway after grinding through 2 modes and knowing the stuff I got was effectively useless and you certainly didn't require addons in heroic raids, thats for sure.

 

In fact the only addons I actually used in WoW were the ones that allowed you to exclude people from groups because that is simply the prime endgame of addon use, after all if you exclude people wherever possble then there is no need to coordinate to any degree and that was more than effective enough for their end tier fomo mounts, even for their keystone achievment, I actually started experimenting with more eventually and each addon installed made the game more and more boring because it required you to play the game less and less which is the real irony related to addons etc.

In terms of GW2 though, the combat is alot more direct which makes it far more important that addon's do not assist you in any possible way, I mean if you require addon assistance then you can't really boast about skilled gameplay because you would effectively be erasing a large component of that through those addons and such.

[Avatara.1042]

On 3/17/2022 at 4:02 PM, Stalima.5490 said:

If you accept a cursor improvement to see better in the game then you would also accept a 3rd party tool that shows a massive out of place blue square every time an important skill was being used... the concept is exactly the same, visibility.

No.  Horrendous argument with absolutely no basis in reality.

[Luijtjuh.5964]

12 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

See, you have to understand that losing your cursor is part of the skill in playing the game so if you take that possibility away then you have essentially just reduced the skill required to play the game via a 3rd party tool.

Part of the issue here is that the in-game cursor doesn't scale; it's basically a fixed pixel size. Back when I played at 1080p, I would rarely lose my cursor. After I switched to 1440p and 4k it suddenly became a huge issue because the cursor would be physically smaller (because of higher pixel density) and therefore a lot harder to spot. 

 

This basically negates any legitimacy in your argument, as not all players are playing the same 'game'. You shouldn't be punished for playing at a higher resolution, or conversely forced to lower your resolution settings to be able to locate the cursor reliably...

[Labjax.2465]

13 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Typical pointing finger at Raiders for addons that break the game.

TACO is far more game breaking than ArcDPS ever was.

Is this a joke? My post was specifically saying that common addons like DPS meters DONT lead to the sky is falling "arms race" the other person was exaggerating about.

[Labjax.2465]

12 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

You need only look at world of warcraft to see the truth in what I said, it started with dps meters, then an addon that tells you what boss mechanics, then an addon that basically dispelled for you, then an addon that told you what buttons to press to dps, then an addon that told you exactly where to stand...

When addons get to this degree, things start getting rediculous so you kinda have to hit them early to stop the case of people basically being the equivilent botting without the ai of botting.

See, you have to understand that losing your cursor is part of the skill in playing the game so if you take that possibility away then you have essentially just reduced the skill required to play the game via a 3rd party tool.

WoW has been out for almost twenty years now. If that's an arms race, it's a very slow one. Anyway, you need only look at other MMOs to see that use of addons varies and not all of them have the same degree of stuff available. So no, there is no truth in what you stated. One 3rd party tool that helps with one small thing does not make an "arms race" of addons.

[Stalima.5490]

47 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Is this a joke? My post was specifically saying that common addons like DPS meters DONT lead to the sky is falling "arms race" the other person was exaggerating about.

dps meters are literally the roots of an addons arms race because when people care so much about dps that they require a meter for it then they are inevitably going to end up using anything they can get away with to increase that dps further and that then evolves into expectation.  This then leads to a decrease in interest in the game due to builds subsequently being locked down, potentially to the point of entire classes being simply ignored.

 

Oh and keep in mind that, again, this does not affect your actual in-game capabilities at all yet causes such drastic effects without needing to do so.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

dps meters are literally the roots of an addons arms race because when people care so much about dps that they require a meter for it then they are inevitably going to end up using anything they can get away with to increase that dps further and that then evolves into expectation.  This then leads to a decrease in interest in the game due to builds subsequently being locked down, potentially to the point of entire classes being simply ignored.

 

Oh and keep in mind that, again, this does not affect your actual in-game capabilities at all yet causes such drastic effects without needing to do so.

Beware the slippery slope! LoL

Oh.  You were serious? 🤣

[Zebulous.2934]

Hrm I would think overlays would be safe, so long as the programs you use don't alter the software of the game itself.  Overlays that react to information the game puts out and simply change how it it is displayed on screen shouldn't provide any feedback for the game to detect.
Say I shine a light on a wall, but then place a prism in front of the light. The light source itself is completely unaffected by that prism, but my wall is now rainbow.  On the other hand I could put a rainbow bulb into the lamp, but that may send an error message to the lamp's DRM and cause it to shut off. (it is a very fancy lamp with proprietary lightbulbs)

[Healix.5819]

13 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Realistically no one is banned for using Yolomouse because there's no way to detect it's use. It's just an overlay.

They're not going to ban for it, but they'll know if you're using it. It's not a simple overlay, it hooks into the game and will reveal itself just like any of the other mods.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

10 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

I mean if you require addon assistance then you can't really boast about skilled gameplay because you would effectively be erasing a large component of that through those addons and such.

Yes because being able to see my mouse cursor was the sole thing that carried me through all those raid cms to get the leg gear, all my fractals every single day, and every other piece of harder content I've done in this game since release. It alone carried me through my almost 40k worth of achievements.

All because I could see my mouse cursor. Give me a break.

4 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

when people care so much about dps that they require a meter for it then they are inevitably going to end up using anything they can get away with to increase that dps further and that then evolves into expectation.

Yes because God forbid people want to see how well they're doing in real time so they can work on improving. Of course not, people wouldn't do that. It's sole use is to encourage people to cheat. Give me yet another break.

You're actually unhinged. Your arguments make no logical sense and you refuse to see it. Dunning-Kruger to the extreme.

[Stalima.5490]

8 hours ago, Miss Lana.5276 said:

Yes because being able to see my mouse cursor was the sole thing that carried me through all those raid cms to get the leg gear, all my fractals every single day, and every other piece of harder content I've done in this game since release. It alone carried me through my almost 40k worth of achievements.

All because I could see my mouse cursor. Give me a break.

Yes because God forbid people want to see how well they're doing in real time so they can work on improving. Of course not, people wouldn't do that. It's sole use is to encourage people to cheat. Give me yet another break.

You're actually unhinged. Your arguments make no logical sense and you refuse to see it. Dunning-Kruger to the extreme.

Yet you literally just proved my point, why is it important to physically see how "well" you are doing, the simple answer is because it gives you an inherent advantage in the game and nothing more. This is more or less the difference between keeping the game as a game and converting it into a job.

[Zebulous.2934]

8 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

Yet you literally just proved my point, why is it important to physically see how "well" you are doing, the simple answer is because it gives you an inherent advantage in the game and nothing more. This is more or less the difference between keeping the game as a game and converting it into a job.

I don't think all games become more enjoyable simply by limiting the amount of information a player can access.  By your logic I could just toggle off my hud (as one does for taking screenshots) and now Gw2 is the perfect mmo.  You can still fight with the hud off, but you can't see any character information at all.  I can't see my remaining health, or stamina bar, I have to time my skill rotation in my head, I certainly can't see my curser.  I have to rely on particle effects to know if I am still confused or vulnerable.

Maybe that is what separates the elite pvp from the rest of us, they have learned their build so well that they no longer need the hud.   (that may actually work)  I couldn't do it though.

[Nightcore.5621]

Been usin it for like 8 years. No u wont get banned