With all of the complaints about every profession which profession is actually viewed as good in EoD?

[Tyrant.1270]

I am a returning player and I generally prefer sustain/tanky types of classes. I am having trouble finding a class that doesn't seem to have a large amount of problems (according to the forums). 

If you go in each profession sub forum you will see someone complaining the profession is dead, it wasn't properly treated, x profession is better, this one is dead, but the same goes for whatever profession they claim was better on that professions forums.

What is actually good at the moment? By good, I don't mean FOTM/meta, I am looking for something that I won't generally feel bad playing in all forms of content. I had my eye on Warrior and Necro but apparently Necro has the lowest PVE damage and Warrior is in a bad spot and has a banner rework coming.

So please, what is actually viewed as good in EoD?

[Joraan Adenard.2061]

Any profession can be played in any content. That said, some professions/builds are better than others in specific situations.

The profession forums have valid complains but are more often than not hyperboles of what's really happening.

 

The best profession you can pick is guardian, it has amazing builds in any content and has been treated like a golden child by Anet since the beginning of the game, so it's the safest bet.

Necro can have amazing dps as a condition build. Power necro is good because it's safe and reliable, but it has lower dps than other professions. Still, it can be played in any content, including the most challenging.

I wouldn't go for ele if you plan on doing group content for the simple reason that it takes you 3 times the effort for the same results so people tend to underperform unless they're very skilled. Groups might not like you underperforming.

Warrior is also very good and in demand, particularly for raids as a banner offensive support.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Joraan Adenard.2061

[kettering.6823]

If you go by what is happening on the forums, nothing. Your fav class is bad, and all the classes you don't play are overtuned and OP.

If you talk to people who are actually playing the game, I've seen a lot of good things about Virtuoso (a lot of the players in my guild seem to really like it, as in it feels good to play for them, and I agree), Harbinger, and Mechanist. I've enjoyed all of those a lot. Mechanist in particular is super fun. I would not recommend the Untamed, not because of numbers, but because I simply have not found it fun to play. It's too complex for too little reward. I can't speak about any of the others though as I have not tried them!

If you don't mean only EoD specs, Guardian has been and probably always will be in a very good spot. Squishy, but you have a ton of survivability in the way of heals and blocks and a ton of damage output. Guardian, especially Firebrand, is always in high demand for basically every game mode. Ton of build diversity, overall fun to play. 

Mesmer is very fun if you're looking for something a bit more complex and less face-rolly. I personally love Soulbeast and it is my main class, but ymmv there; some think it's really boring. Oh, and Daredevil in open world is so, so much fun. I love just running around on my staff Daredevil. 

Also ignore the people complaining about necro's PVE damage. If you are not a hardcore player I promise it does not matter. Condi scourge has great DPS and insane survivability in open world. I haven't played Reaper since its nerfs so I can't speak on that. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by kettering.6823

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Tyrant.1270 said:

What is actually good at the moment? By good, I don't mean FOTM/meta, I am looking for something that I won't generally feel bad playing in all forms of content. I had my eye on Warrior and Necro but apparently Necro has the lowest PVE damage and Warrior is in a bad spot and has a banner rework coming.

So please, what is actually viewed as good in EoD?

   Necro is strong at every part of the game; specially in PvE solo, PvP and WvW. Tanky, reliable and easy to play, the new spec has mobility and single target burst but at the cost of being more glassy.

   Ranger is another easy to play profession with very good sustain with powerful builds for PvE and roaming.

   Of the new specs in PvP the ones "worthy" of being meta at the moment are Specter and Mechanist; this later is really powerfull in PvE also but being its performance so linked to the jade golem can make risky to main it: moans in PvP can end ruining the class in other game modes...

   I'll advice you against the Guardian: yes, is meta at every game mode. Because in most of them you don't need to run. The Guardian has two weaknes: their mobility (before Willbender) is bad and you base HP is 11K. So if you want +25% movement runes you're hurting your dps. And if you want more health to not be one shooted you'll lose dps. Yes, quickbrander works wonders in fractals and raids (in skilled groups which make no mistakes) and in WvW zergs were provides shared stability...   But the average Joe soloing OW as Guardian probably ends in downstate more often than the average Ele, despite the memes...

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

3 hours ago, Tyrant.1270 said:

I generally prefer sustain/tanky types of classes.

 

3 hours ago, Tyrant.1270 said:

I had my eye on Warrior and Necro

Based on these, I think what you're looking for is a sort of bruiser/juggernaut gameplay, where you got the defense to go up to the enemies and scrap with them directly, and the offense to dish out as much as you can take. If I'm right, I think you might enjoy Reaper. Obviously you're gonna trade some damage for that tankiness, but last I checked Necro and Reaper still deal respectable damage with a good build, and probably most importantly I think it'd feel good to play for you.

[Jski.6180]

They are bad over all eod elite spec are not good they just happen to have a needed boon to some how replace the anet doing real work with them.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The hardest part about saying which class is good is community reinforcement.  Every profession and specialization in the game is functional at a good level in PVE right now, with the exception of maybe two (Catalyst and Herald).  The complaints that you hear are often extremely focused (Virtuoso is bad.. in WvW zergs) or they're wholly relative to other professions and don't actually reflect a problem (Vindicator only does 37k DPS).  As much as I'd like to say to blow those people off, if you ever find yourself in strikes, fractals, or raids, then you're going to encounter players who get uppity over such frivolities.

If you aren't concerned much with that, just go with anything.  There's only one profession that is "hard" to play, and that is elementalist.  Nearly everything else has simple but effective builds that can shred overworld content.  Now, in my limited experience if I were to rank how good each EoD sec is in the overworld, it would look something like this:

1. Mechanist.  You can basically AFK with them and still do better than other professions that are actively trying.  There's plenty of builds to go with, and the whole thing is pretty durable with all of the barrier that it gives itself.  It has multiple support builds, just be wary that the condi version's DPS rotation is really hard to do.
2. Harbinger.  Don't let the complaints of others fool you, this spec shreds everything in its way.  I barely notice any blight issues while playing.  Also has a support build.  
3. Willbender.  It's more fun than I anticipated.  It technically has a time limit, since once you run out of virtues and Litany of Wrath your survival goes down the drain, but most things don't breach that limit.  The condi build hits really hard but is more frail, the power build is more versatile and durable but hits for less.
4. Vindicator.  While it is a mess design wise, it still hit pretty hard and can self-buff to the nines... or rather the 25's.  Equip the Stamina Sigil on your Greatsword and you'll become the bunny lord.  
5. Virtuoso.  It's a stripped down mesmer that trades its complexity for raw DPS.  Both power and condi are pretty easy to play, but at the moment condi is hitting harder with greater sustain.
6. Bladesworn.  This profession has one big flaw with overworld PVE, which is enemies don't live long enough to make use of it's gimmick.  In a prolonged or sustained fight the dragon trigger can really shine, but for regular use you might end up forgetting it is even there, since Bladesworn doesn't build flow fast enough.
7. Specter.  This one is... awkward to deal with.  It was built as a condi support spec, but it isn't super great at heals or support unless you're running the harrier sword version.  It can do good condi damage, but only with allies.  While solo the best thing about it is how durable the shadow shroud makes the thief.
8. Untamed.  I don't play ranger, so I can't say much about it, except that it can't be as bad as catalyst.
9. Catalyst.  To describe all of its problems would take more words than this entire previous post, so I'll just say it barely functions and is incredibly hard to play well.  

 

[Buran.3796]

8 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

The hardest part about saying which class is good is community reinforcement.  Every profession and specialization in the game is functional at a good level in PVE right now, with the exception of maybe two (Catalyst and Herald). 

   Actually, Herald is way better than Vindicator for OW PvE. You can solo almost every HoT & PoF hero point champion with both power and condi Herald without much problems (aside from Mushroom Queen and Herald of Balthazar; still doable but very hard) whereas I tried to do the same yesterday with a power PvE Vindicator build and was crushed in almost every fight. In order to do damage that build requires full berserker stats (or a bit of diviner to enhance the boons) and fighting at mele; you only have a dodge and while dodging your dps is 0. You have no cc to break defiant bars outside staff (which greatly recuces your dps) or previous legends. If you use your jump to actively enhance your damage you can find out yourself with no evades vs heavy hits. Condi Renegade, compared to Vindicator at OW PvE, is god mode.

[Dadnir.5038]

14 hours ago, Tyrant.1270 said:

I had my eye on Warrior and Necro but apparently Necro has the lowest PVE damage and Warrior is in a bad spot and has a banner rework coming.

To be fair, necro don't have the lowest PvE damage, it's pretty much average right now and harbinger reach 2nd place on the top dps (however the survivability of the necromancer in PvE have taken a hit recently. It doesn't mean that you'll die quickly but people like to make some drama). Warrior with bladesworn can be very tanky (some even say immortal).

Most of the time the forum complains are PvP driven so don't take them to heart if your aim is PvE.

[Puck.3697]

Forums will always be primarily negative views realistically however to what is good. 

Condi willbender has become a very strong DPS choice for guardian. It lacks quickness role / healing role which firebrand has access to, but remember it can't do these roles at the same time as it's DPS. So as a DPS choice Condi willbender is a great contender. 

Power bladesworn, is stronger then spellbreaker and berserker in spvp. It also does have a 38k DPS build, the problem is it's harder to pull off then berserker for a small DPS gain. However it's very usuable if you want to invest in it but missing a single jade slash is a huge DPS loss. 

Power vindicator being a 37k power DPS makes it revenants strongest power option. Ontop of this it's a strong spvp teamfighter.

Virtuoso has seen some very successful SPVP 1v1 builds although it lacks flexibility and falls shorter in teamfights where it's easier to CC lock it down but it's stronger then people give it credit for. It also has a very well performing DPS role in PvE, but effectively it's not as flexible as mesmers as other options, it can only be a DPS. But if your role is DPS it's a option. 

Harbinger, brings a strong quickness build, it is a high performer as a pure DPS aswell. It will be a optimal choice to fulfill either of these roles as a necromancer. It's also suprinsingly strong in solo play aswell as offering some very strong spvp builds. 

Spectre has shown alot of strength in spvp. However it's Pve ability can be considered much more niche. 

Mechanist is strong in both PvE and PvP. And I'd argue as far as meta in both places. 

Catalyst is terrible. 

And they all fall off a cliff in WvWvW performance. 

Bladesworn although is stronger still doesn't answer for where warrior lacks. 

Virtuoso lacked uniqueness in playstyle which makes it feel like it lacks creativity.

Vindicator copied alot of animations which angered a certain audience. 

Spectres niche ability in PvE makes it more annoying to play in PvE. It's also a healing build pushed onto a pure DPS for over a decade. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Zenith.7301]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Actually, Herald is way better than Vindicator for OW PvE. You can solo almost every HoT & PoF hero point champion with both power and condi Herald without much problems (aside from Mushroom Queen and Herald of Balthazar; still doable but very hard) whereas I tried to do the same yesterday with a power PvE Vindicator build and was crushed in almost every fight. In order to do damage that build requires full berserker stats (or a bit of diviner to enhance the boons) and fighting at mele; you only have a dodge and while dodging your dps is 0. You have no cc to break defiant bars outside staff (which greatly recuces your dps) or previous legends. If you use your jump to actively enhance your damage you can find out yourself with no evades vs heavy hits. Condi Renegade, compared to Vindicator at OW PvE, is god mode.

 

 

I'm glad you're wasting time telling people what is or isn't good in an absolutely irrelevant mode where everything is trivially cleared. Clearly where balance should be focused.

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Forums will always be primarily negative views realistically however to what is good. 

Condi willbender has become a very strong DPS choice for guardian. It lacks quickness role / healing role which firebrand has access to, but remember it can't do these roles at the same time as it's DPS. So as a DPS choice Condi willbender is a great contender. 

Power bladesworn, is stronger then spellbreaker and berserker in spvp. It also does have a 38k DPS build, the problem is it's harder to pull off then berserker for a small DPS gain. However it's very usuable if you want to invest in it but missing a single jade slash is a huge DPS loss. 

Power vindicator being a 37k power DPS makes it revenants strongest power option. Ontop of this it's a strong spvp teamfighter.

Virtuoso has seen some very successful SPVP 1v1 builds although it lacks flexibility and falls shorter in teamfights where it's easier to CC lock it down but it's stronger then people give it credit for. It also has a very well performing DPS role in PvE, but effectively it's not as flexible as mesmers as other options, it can only be a DPS. But if your role is DPS it's a option. 

Harbinger, brings a strong quickness build, it is a high performer as a pure DPS aswell. It will be a optimal choice to fulfill either of these roles as a necromancer. It's also suprinsingly strong in solo play aswell as offering some very strong spvp builds. 

Spectre has shown alot of strength in spvp. However it's Pve ability can be considered much more niche. 

Mechanist is strong in both PvE and PvP. And I'd argue as far as meta in both places. 

Catalyst is terrible. 

And they all fall off a cliff in WvWvW performance. 

Bladesworn although is stronger still doesn't answer for where warrior lacks. 

Virtuoso lacked uniqueness in playstyle which makes it feel like it lacks creativity.

Vindicator copied alot of animations which angered a certain audience. 

Spectres niche ability in PvE makes it more annoying to play in PvE. It's also a healing build pushed onto a pure DPS for over a decade. 

Stop saying revenant does 37k when that benchmark only applies to huge hitbox. It does a pitiful 35-36k on small hitbox. That's well below most power classes for a spec that ahs barely any CC or utility contribution.

It's also a double melee weaponset loadout with a single dodge, which means in practical encounters it's far inferior to power and condi specs that have the flexibility of range when forced off target for a mechanic, like currently specter and harbinger do with fully ranged weapon loadouts, and both virtuoso and guardian also have ranged weapons in their loadout which mitigate some of the DPS loss by being forced off target.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Zenith.7301

[Puck.3697]

10 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

It's also a double melee weaponset loadout with a single dodge, which means in practical encounters it's far inferior to power and condi specs that have the flexibility of range when forced off target for a mechanic, like currently specter and harbinger do with fully ranged weapon loadouts, and both virtuoso and guardian also have ranged weapons in their loadout which mitigate some of the DPS loss by being forced off target

Didn't say it was perfect. 

Vindicator defintly requires some cleaning up. However it's still revenants strongest power option which isn't true. 

Lack of ranged options is a core revenant issue. Which is obviously the major issue. Alot of core problems are still existing and withojt the normal bandaid of making elites overpowered they feel worse. 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Zenith.7301 said:

I'm glad you're wasting time telling people what is or isn't good in an absolutely irrelevant mode where everything is trivially cleared. Clearly where balance should be focused.

   I'm giving advice based on three weeks playing the spec non stop, and happens that the "absolutely irrelevant mode where everything is trivially cleared"  is what most of the population plays most of the time, and the topic creator specifically expressed that FOTM/meta doesn't bother him. 

  You can keep guiding people towards meta builds for abandoned content if you wan't. Really I couldn't care less.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

My Tierlist on overall performance.

Top Tier: Guardian and Necro

Mid Tier: Revenant, Thief, Engineer, Ranger , Mesmer

Low Tier: Warrior , Ele.

[Infinity.2876]

Specter, mechanist and harbinger are good enough theme and playability wise. Virtuoso feels fun. blade sworn feels like core greatsword still. Catalyst feels like tempest 2.0. 

I'm currently playing a supper tank scrapper build

Edited March 20, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[Borked.6824]

I love my Willbender.  I love it alot.  It does good dps, it's smooth and intuitive, it's aesthetically pleasing.  Just that the run-of-the-mill min/maxers, and commanders, and group leaders, and group members, the baddies that think they like boons, the clickers that don't know what boons are, and their dogs, and the particles that make up their being do not.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Borked.6824

[Vidit.7108]

I did a poll over in the thief sub-forum and people there rated Specter average (so far). It's got some problems that are really apparent but the overall response is that it's just okay.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 3/20/2022 at 10:59 AM, Joraan Adenard.2061 said:

The best profession you can pick is guardian, it has amazing builds in any content and has been treated like a golden child by Anet since the beginning of the game, so it's the safest bet.

 

I don't think it's really been a golden child, so much as they got the fundamentals right pretty early on. The core traitlines haven't really been changed much since the pre-HoT patch that reworked traits for everyone, and the recent removal of Retaliation and replacement with Resolution (a patch which also affected pretty much everyone). Other professions have needed a variety of reworks that usually result in unstable balance for the next dozen patches or so as ArenaNet tries to get them into the 'sweet spot'.

 

On 3/20/2022 at 3:14 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

The hardest part about saying which class is good is community reinforcement.  Every profession and specialization in the game is functional at a good level in PVE right now, with the exception of maybe two (Catalyst and Herald). 

 

You can cut that down to one. Herald is pretty good in open world, to the point of having been included in Nike's list of 'carry group events' builds (although the reduced boon cap hurt it a lot there). It's just out of favour for high-end instanced group PvE because, like reaper, its performance when playing solo is based around self-providing a lot of buffs that normally come from other sources in organised group content. So it's probably still one of the stronger setups playing solo (although renegade is hard to compete with), it just suffers in organised groups because its biggest strengths become redundant there.

 

[jaif.3518]

Angry people post, happy people play 

 

Harbinger is fun in roaming and open world, and i saw a good benchmark at snowcrowx if raiding is your thing.  Its not tanky like core necro, though.

 

I went through the EOD story with Bladesworn.  You can easily build tanky or glass cannon, but it took me a good while to figure the class out.  My world opened up when i stopped trying to do max damage on each dragon trigger. 

[Guybrush.4762]

Ok so you don't want Necro nor Warrior. I also assume that by "in EoD" you mean "in the current state of the game" and you are not necessarily referring to the new specs. Then I'd say Celestial Firebrand and Power Holosmith would both fill the bill for a solid build with ok sustain and tanking that can do decent damage and is welcomed into most endgame PvE group.

Firebrand is indeed in high demand regardless of the content you are playing. The reason are simple : As a dps player, on the plus side it deals good damage and good cleave with a fairly straightforward rotation and has stellar utility on top of it. On the cons side it has low hp but the defensive tools are there and built into the class. As a support, on the plus side it can maintain quickness, provide stability and Aegis on demand plus it covers a lot of essential boon. On the cons side, healing and cleansing is a bit below average as far as healers are concerned. However it is generally sufficient if people on your subgroup know the mechanics and understand how to benefit from your projectile reflects. It was nerfed a fair bit on EoD release and you may find over-dramatization here and there but it is still a very solid spec in my opinion. I suggest looking for the celestial variant ; to my knowledge it is playable everywhere in PvE except raid where toughness often meddle with who get the aggro and you probably want to go for Ritualist gear instead and trust your healer for the sustain.

Holosmith is a really decent option for power dps. The dps benchmark is a bit below average but actual record in real scenario place them in a very good position dps wise ; you will not be pushed away because of your build. The rotation is straightforward enough but there is definitely some thing you want to pay attention to (for example, cancelling your sword auto-attack chain is more punishing than average). In term of tanking and sustain you naturally recover some health and generate a fair bit of barrier thanks to the heat mechanic and the holosmith trait line. Compared to Firebrand you do not provide nearly as much utility to your group (if any)... I mean you contribute to break the defiance bar and you share a bit of might but everyone does that ; I guess you could grab a shield for a marginal dps loss compared to pistol off-hand. But yeah you get the picture... you deal solid damage and you are relatively safe while doing so. For gear you generally want full Berzerker but if you struggle with surviving you can mix in a bit of Vitality or Toughness.

As far as EoD specs are concerned, some of them are promising  but the probability that they will be buffed or nerfed in some way in the near future is high so if you feel bad about Warrior because it will be changed you should probably stay away from the new spec as well for the time being.

Hope that helped.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Guybrush.4762

[Ragnar.4257]

If anyone gives you an opinion/recommendation without making it clear for what game-mode/scenario that is for, then you really have to ignore that opinion.

OW-PvE / Raid-PvE / WvW / PvP all have wildly different requirements, and a spec can be god-mode in one and unplayably bad in another.

Likewise if you ask for an opinion/recommendation and don't specify what game-mode/scenario you need, then you might as well not ask at all, since the replies will be all over the place.

[nutri.1385]

On 3/20/2022 at 4:00 AM, Buran.3796 said:

 But the average Joe soloing OW as Guardian probably ends in downstate more often than the average Ele, despite the memes...

Yep, I've just started playing as a guardian, and boy, Willbender is squishy, and the snowcrows power DPS build which I'm using to learn, is pure melee. Downstate is just waiting for the mobs to kill me, but on the other hand it's super fun to play. I love the monk vibes it gives! I'll be gearing it up for healbrand for raids or meta.

To add to the thread, my main go to class for all modes (I guess PVP the least) is condi berserker. Works for raids, fractals, WvW (I guess, I run it and no issues), OW too. And I didn't have to change the gear stats even once, which is a miracle in comparison to Ranger. 

[Puck.3697]

On 3/20/2022 at 4:03 PM, Zenith.7301 said:

I'm glad you're wasting time telling people what is or isn't good in an absolutely irrelevant mode where everything is trivially cleared. Clearly where balance should be focused

You know what's funny about this statement? 

U call it irrelevant yet it's Pve is side of the game which 99% of players exclusively play. 

By sheer popularity it's actually spvp and WvWvW which are irrelevant. The game would survive us quitting. But the game couldn't survive with only us. 

Weather we agree with it or not. 99% of players never touch PvP and play this game as a PvE game. 

They aren't irrelevant. This game would shut down if they left 😂. The spvp playerbase has never been large enough to keep this game running. 

Theres s reason they doubled down on PvE content. And it wasn't cause PvP was ever doing amazing. 

I say that as a primarily PvP player. But by sheer numbers I'm afraid we are the irrelevant ones. A tiny fraction of the population give a kitten that PvP exists in this game.

PvP in mmorpgs has been dying for a long time tbh. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Rekhaa.2748]

They just nerf sustain for everyone at EoD released, you'll probably be disapointed if it's what you like

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

I don't know too much about most of the specs.

 

I think Mechanist is currently the well recieved one? Its kit seems to mesh extremely well with everything that Engineer brings with a barely noticable trade off. You just lose your toolbelt skills, but they get replaced by something equally functional.

 

From my experience... Catalyst is... Yeesh. There's very little nice I can say about it. You want to be aurelion sol or Hammerdin, its a good rp spec then. But otherwise its not very functional.

 

Specter. There's at least some nice things I can say about it. But thats a low bar. It's a support spec that appeals to people of standard healers in MMOs, but its bad at it. Its got the nastiest trade off so far, and the gain is purely durability that can be countered easily. Its a departure from GW2s design in a horrendous way making it very akward to play in open world and wvw. Additionally, as a support... It barely competes with the others who can do significantly more without stopping what they are doing. Damage wise, its a struggle if you're solo. The one nice thing I can say... Is its the most durable spec thief has... And thats mostly because they destroyed thiefs major form of self sustain.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497