Gw 2 definition of Necromancer absolute bloated mess

[Carnage.6751]

Hello I'm a veteran mmo player wasted many years by playing other mmos like Wow ,Metin 2 ,Silkroad list goes on...

And as a edgy boi I always liked Necromancer class.Evil theme,blood,gore and zombies,resurrection and stuff.

İn every mmo they have played like glass canoon.Good magical abilities,debuffs and sustain.

But in case on GW 2 some clever designer took this idea and said ;"You know what?What if we double down on it.What if we give them everything."

Necromancer class in this game my absolute most hated design ever.Because of how bloated and unfun to play againts.You giving them aoe fear,lifesteal,minions all this condition damage but still not enough .Lets give a second life bar  and attack speed steroid which turn to fight immediately and makes them a bullet sponge kitten.

People who gonna defend necros gonna say "oh its ez just peel from far,dont get near him ,cc and stuff" but there is an issue in PVP.This is an objective base game and as long you don't enter to circle and secure to point you losing point and İT stays there.Soaking damage,waiting you to get close so it can turn to leach form and destroy you.And plus even in downstate it lifesteals.I remember in one game I downstate to necro with inch of my hp.İt downstate me with basic attacks leech me and get back again.

Because of this every time I played necro I feel like scum.But unfortunatelly for Legendary backpack I have to.Maybe A-net should balance to classes seperately for pvp and pve.So mode they overperform that doesn't ruin to other modes.

 

Sorry for grammar.

 

[Obtena.7952]

Not sure what this thread is about but here is some advice that the OP would benefit from:

If you don't like it, don't play it. 

You can be certain that this is the reason there are eight other classes to play. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Dadnir.5038]

7 hours ago, Carnage.6751 said:

What if we give them everything.

I doubt the developpers thought this when they developped the necromancer. After all it got no invuln, no block, no evade skill, low stability... etc.

To be fair, until HoT, the necromancer the only gamemode where the necromancer wasn't trash was WvW. Before PoF, the necromancer only had a place in competitive modes. Before EoD, people would have laughed at you if you were to say that you'd use your necromancer as a boon support.

Keep in mind that the devs try to make sure that all professions have everything. That all professions can fill any role. It's their manifesto: "Bring the player, not the profession!".

[Xelqypla.6817]

Elder Scrolls Online Necromancer is a tank.

 

DDO Pale Master is a tank.

 

I have always hated the idea that Necromancers were a pet class. If Pyromancers/ Fire Mages just summoned living fire pets, there would be riots.

[Dadnir.5038]

16 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

Elder Scrolls Online Necromancer is a tank.

 

DDO Pale Master is a tank.

 

I have always hated the idea that Necromancers were a pet class. If Pyromancers/ Fire Mages just summoned living fire pets, there would be riots.

Most modern mmo broaden the build pool of their professions and tune down heavily the possibility of having an army of minions.

In this regard, even gw2 necromancer have much more minions than most of it's concurents as you can have up to 10+ minions at the same time on reaper for example.

But I do agree with you as the necromancer archetype is often tanky in a lot of mmo that I've played as well (with minion or not). The only game were I've seen necromancer as glassy is GW1 with it's life sacrifice gameplay, deliberatly chosing to reduce it's maximum health to the maximum in order to sacrifice less raw hp (mean it's easier to heal back) due to the %age cost of the abilities.

[Telgum.6071]

9 hours ago, Carnage.6751 said:

PVP.This is an objective base game and as long you don't enter to circle and secure to point you losing point and İT stays there.

I don't pretend to mock you but this is such a noob take. In PvP surviving is above everything else, the more time you are alive (and your enemy dead), the more time you have to work towards objectives and nodes while your enemy is dead. This "fight on point" mentality is ok when you are starting in PvP, but you have to let it go.

You don't have to aim for "getting in the circle against all odds to prevent the enemy from scoring points". If the enemy is rooted in the nodes then their positioning is 0, you can cast on them easily because you know they won't move from the point, therefore taking most of your damage. So you kill them and then while they are dead, you capture the node. It doesn't matter if they arrive before you fully capture it because they are not scoring as result of you being there and your enemy being dead. That's why most thieves won't fully capture the enemy node, and instead will just reset it.

[Arheundel.6451]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I doubt the developpers thought this when they developped the necromancer. After all it got no invuln, no block, no evade skill, low stability... etc.

To be fair, until HoT, the necromancer the only gamemode where the necromancer wasn't trash was WvW. Before PoF, the necromancer only had a place in competitive modes. Before EoD, people would have laughed at you if you were to say that you'd use your necromancer as a boon support.

Keep in mind that the devs try to make sure that all professions have everything. That all professions can fill any role. It's their manifesto: "Bring the player, not the profession!".

Hmmm....ele has invulnerabilities......blocks and evades....but necro playerbase outnumber eles by 10 to 1, you'd think otherwise reading comments like yours, since HoT launch, the necro playerbase has increased tenfold....and now it's 2nd most played class after Guardian while ele with all its blocks...invulnerabilities ...lies almost at the bottom and you rarely see anything but a healbot tempest in wvw these days and some fire weaver in gold pvp.

Necro is due heavy nerfs....since Feb 2020, I am expecting the shroud nerfs to be extended to wvw

Edited March 26, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[Puck.3697]

Necromancer doesn't have everything .. 

Necromancer has condi, power, barrier and quickness on builds that don't overlap dramatically. 

Guardians have access to alot more then necromancer. Mechanist has more in a singular build ironically. 

Necromancer has hated. Because of its sustain in PvP which remained stupidly high compared to other options after the Feb 2020 patch. 

However since EoD launch tbh fighting them feels now pretty ok. They've lost alot of sustain with those nerfs. 

And no I'm not a necro main. Or defending it prior EoDs nerfs it was dumb levels of strong. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Dadnir.5038]

8 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Hmmm....ele has invulnerabilities......blocks and evades....but necro playerbase outnumber eles by 10 to 1, you'd think otherwise reading comments like yours, since HoT launch, the necro playerbase has increased tenfold....and now it's 2nd most played class after Guardian while ele with all its blocks...invulnerabilities ...lies almost at the bottom and you rarely see anything but a healbot tempest in wvw these days and some fire weaver in gold pvp.

Necro is due heavy nerfs....since Feb 2020, I am expecting the shroud nerfs to be extended to wvw

Popularity isn't something that you "nerf" or an indicator that something is imbalanced. The majority of the playerbase focus on open world PvE (you can hardly argue against that, right?), often looking for something "cool" to play. Let's be honest, if someone had to chose between the cool looking reaper with it's scythe and tempest or weaver I'm 100% certain that anybody would chose the cool looking reaper (Am I biased when I say that? Sure. Am I more biased than you when you say "necro outnumber ele by 10 to 1"? I doubt it.)

Also, necromancer was already amongst the most played profession (if not already 2nd) when the necromancer was at it's lowest. The "dark" theme is a theme that have a lot of appeal.

Let's be realist, even if the devs extend the shroud nerf in WvW it won't make elementalist more popular into this gamemode. The necromancer's and the elementalist's "niches" don't overlap in WvW as the elementalist isn't fit for being a frontliner in large scale battle nor does he have any boon hate as for the necromancer, it's healing/barrier output in WvW have already been nuked to oblivion.

[ASP.8093]

19 hours ago, Carnage.6751 said:

People who gonna defend necros gonna say "oh its ez just peel from far,dont get near him ,cc and stuff" but there is an issue in PVP.This is an objective base game and as long you don't enter to circle and secure to point you losing point

So, like.

In a teamfight? You can focus them down. Most necro builds are pretty beefy but vulnerable to interrupts and group pressure.

Against a side-noder (duelist)? Gank them with numbers. This applies to nearly every duelist build — they're *designed* to sit on point and be annoying to 1v1, and by far the quickest way to beat any build like that, whether it's necro or mirage or druid or engie or rev, is to deny them the 1v1. (If you really don't like that answer, you can beat them at their own game by playing a "decap" side-noder build.)

 

As Telgum said, don't focus on capture points so much. Often, one or two kills is enough to snowball the map.

[lovemghool.7613]

On 3/27/2022 at 2:36 AM, Arheundel.6451 said:

Hmmm....ele has invulnerabilities......blocks and evades....but necro playerbase outnumber eles by 10 to 1, you'd think otherwise reading comments like yours, since HoT launch, the necro playerbase has increased tenfold....and now it's 2nd most played class after Guardian while ele with all its blocks...invulnerabilities ...lies almost at the bottom and you rarely see anything but a healbot tempest in wvw these days and some fire weaver in gold pvp.

Necro is due heavy nerfs....since Feb 2020, I am expecting the shroud nerfs to be extended to wvw

Cele ele on anything is a good roamer, support ele is also played in roaming and less in zerg and Dps ele sees play in roaming and in zergs. The thing is Ele is not competing against Necromancer for a spot as both have different roles. in a Zerg setting Scrapper is just better for support and Guardian and Revenant while not out damaging staff ele are just brining more to the group as a whole than full dps staff ele. It is just how Anet decided to design it. Necro disappearing today means more spellbreaker tomorrow and not ele. 

As for pvp...Anet nerfed everything that counters Necro+Support to the ground so yeah there is that. But if you wish to delete necro from the match then ranged builds like soulbeast and deadeye exist as well as heavy cc builds but then you will have to deal the natural predators to these builds. Fireweaver is still good to stalemate necro and even hybrid tempest. 
Maybe Anet is the one not loving your class enough or in the right places?

[Methuselah.4376]

On 3/26/2022 at 10:02 PM, Xelqypla.6817 said:

Elder Scrolls Online Necromancer is a tank.

Actually in ESO there's no class that is one role or the other; it's a game that allows any class to be any role. Some excel at certain roles more than others but even those that don't can still do that role perfectly well enough to get through the hardest content. Necromancer in ESO is a special class in that it happens to do all three roles (DPS, Tank, Healer) VERY well (separately ofc). However, in ESO classes (as far as PvE are concerned at least) are super well balanced, with the weakest never being very far behind the strongest, and the meta constantly changes as well. 

Staying on topic, I sincerely believe that ESO gets Necromancer right. The only other game that I found other than ESO that got necro right was Diablo 3. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Methuselah.4376

[Arheundel.6451]

On 3/27/2022 at 9:28 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

Popularity isn't something that you "nerf" or an indicator that something is imbalanced. The majority of the playerbase focus on open world PvE (you can hardly argue against that, right?), often looking for something "cool" to play. Let's be honest, if someone had to chose between the cool looking reaper with it's scythe and tempest or weaver I'm 100% certain that anybody would chose the cool looking reaper (Am I biased when I say that? Sure. Am I more biased than you when you say "necro outnumber ele by 10 to 1"? I doubt it.)

Also, necromancer was already amongst the most played profession (if not already 2nd) when the necromancer was at it's lowest. The "dark" theme is a theme that have a lot of appeal.

Let's be realist, even if the devs extend the shroud nerf in WvW it won't make elementalist more popular into this gamemode. The necromancer's and the elementalist's "niches" don't overlap in WvW as the elementalist isn't fit for being a frontliner in large scale battle nor does he have any boon hate as for the necromancer, it's healing/barrier output in WvW have already been nuked to oblivion.

The "cool effect" is just a result of optimal balance, if you'd swap the design between ele and necro...how many "edgy kids" would really play necro?...My guess not even half of the current number, so yeah necro is used primarily because is easy and effective ain all game modes, and before people come with the pitchfork for me, I have always stated that it doesn't make any sense for a class like ele to exist in a game like GW2 aimed at super casual.

People can try to spin it all they want but the truth is...anet devs tried to reinvent the wheel..and failed miserably, the old trope of versatile class, swiss army knife design has always backfired in games, they cannot make the versatile class nearly as good as the specialized classes....hard logic.

Additional problems start when you target a super casual audience who doesn't give a kitten about roles or holy trinity, they pick the most effective class...and they demand to do it all with it, now you end up with an original specialized class that can also cover other roles and because the specialized class was better than the versatile class to start with.....you end up with the current balance.

Also let me correct you.....the stats were : 1-guardian, 2- warrior. 3- ranger , 4- ele 5- mesmer , 6 - necro, 7-thief, 8 engi and 9- rev and these were the stats prior to 2015 departure of GW1 balance devs, who dared to nerf necro for real.....not like now, dhuumfire was OP...booom...nerfed from Orbit as it should be, then the only competenet unbiased professionals guys left anet and we have been left at the mercy of incompetent fools

Once this joke started, the decline of the class followed not too far behind: nerfed fire trait line (GM blind-adept cantrip), nerfed fresh air (gutted air minor strike -nerfed LR, deleted arcane skills, nerfed scepter air 2 dmg, nerfed dmg phoenix...everything that made FA ele work basically), nerfed ele ability to actually melee necro ( deleted diamond skin)...literally destroyed core ele ouf of the game. 

Then they started nerfing dmg on tempest..because support can't do dmg and that's why scrapper can oneshot you with grenades while giving aoe stealth, stability, aoe cleanse, dmg reduction, aoe reflect/block to all team...because support can't do dmg and support...-_-

Then they buffed core necro..because why not and with reaper being already the powerhouse, the number of people playing necro skyrocketed...yeah sure.....cool to play...not because it was(it is?!) OP af in PvE/WvW....

I will stop here but yeah....it's really a "strange" coincidence that cool equals with easy to play=effective....

[XECOR.2814]

l2p issue. You dont have idea what you are talking about because you are not on top of things 

[Xelqypla.6817]

11 hours ago, Methuselah.4376 said:

Actually in ESO there's no class that is one role or the other; it's a game that allows any class to be any role. Some excel at certain roles more than others but even those that don't can still do that role perfectly well enough to get through the hardest content. Necromancer in ESO is a special class in that it happens to do all three roles (DPS, Tank, Healer) VERY well (separately ofc). However, in ESO classes (as far as PvE are concerned at least) are super well balanced, with the weakest never being very far behind the strongest, and the meta constantly changes as well. 

Staying on topic, I sincerely believe that ESO gets Necromancer right. The only other game that I found other than ESO that got necro right was Diablo 3. 

 

DDO's Pale Master isn't classified as a "Tank" in the holy trinity either.

 

I just pulled two Necromancers in MMOs that could tank damage like GW2's Necro to show that it's not unique.

 

I 100% agree on ESO and Diablo 3 Necromancer.

[Dadnir.5038]

9 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Also let me correct you.....the stats were : 1-guardian, 2- warrior. 3- ranger , 4- ele 5- mesmer , 6 - necro, 7-thief, 8 engi and 9- rev and these were the stats prior to 2015 departure of GW1 balance devs

Sure, and if you recall properly, rev was basically a newborn while the other were there for already a few years. Engi had a very low population while the other 7 had very similar populations.

1. Elementalist was top tier everywhere yet was only 4th on the list (Stomping in small scale PvP 1vX, bringing rain of destruction alongside support in large scale PvP, getting dungeon paths solo records and having the meta for PvE at an amazing 4 Ele + 1 thief or 1 mesmer. The elementalist was doing the support and the damage, the other? They brought stealth and portal to make thing faster). See how popularity is a bad indicator of balance?
2. Guardian was 1st? Was guardian meta in PvE? Heck no, what a joke! Was guardian especially strong in sPvP? Nope not really, he could either take a beating or go glass and die quickly (winning 1vX... Nope). In WvW? Well... Stability thank you.
3. Warrior was second? You know why? Fastest character to get a free lion chest key (create and delete!). Was it strong in PvE end game? Certainly, it was even a contender for solo dungeon path records (still people would have rather have you coming as an elementalist than as a warrior). In PvP? He was mostly struggling (and he still is). In WvW? He was there for melee CC and disappeared with the pirateship meta and then revenant.
4. Ranger was 3rd? The amount of hate and prejudice it had in PvE was quite impressive yet the number of people wanting to play "Legolas" was at it's highest. In WvW? lol pet... In sPvP? Objectively pathetic after the shortbow attack speed nerf.
5. Mesmer? Rarely seen in PvE end game. Portal bot in WvW. Shattercat in small scale PvP. Sustained damage? Abysmal. I'm actually impressed that it was more played than necromancer.
6. Necromancer? Only mesmer had lower damage output than necromancer. Utility? None outside of corrupting boon in WvW. Roaming potential? Close to 0. PvE? No blast and dark field, get out of here. Your mobility skill put you in combat? What a joke, get out.
7. Thief? Actually very useful in PvE yet difficult to find there. sPvP? Thief, thiefs everywhere. WvW? I can swear that outside of the  rush hours there were more thiefs on WvW maps than any other professions. Yet, only 7th.

Now, do you perhaps see why I say that popularity is irrelevant in balance? The most OP thing was 4th while the least was 3rd most popular.

10 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

dhuumfire was OP...booom...nerfed from Orbit

Dhuumfire could apply 4s burn on crit with a 10s CD and that was seen as "OP". If you were to look at how it has been nerfed now instead from how your memory seem to see it, you'd just laugh and say it's a joke of a nerf. Especially since it ended up losing it's ICD and being put on an AA. Dhuumfire to this day is still one of the single most OP trait of the necromancer.

NB.: I must say you made me laugh with your "nerfed from Orbit". Then you see Scourge's barrier reduced by 70% and you say: "Pfft, that's just a small slap on the hand!". You see epidemic get a 75% nerf: "Necromancer is really lucky, the devs don't dare nerfing it!".

 

Look, I could go on with your whole post, yet it would just waste my time a little bit more.

[Dralor.3701]

On 3/26/2022 at 6:01 AM, Carnage.6751 said:

Hello I'm a veteran mmo player wasted many years by playing other mmos like Wow ,Metin 2 ,Silkroad list goes on...

And as a edgy boi I always liked Necromancer class.Evil theme,blood,gore and zombies,resurrection and stuff.

İn every mmo they have played like glass canoon.Good magical abilities,debuffs and sustain.

But in case on GW 2 some clever designer took this idea and said ;"You know what?What if we double down on it.What if we give them everything."

Necromancer class in this game my absolute most hated design ever.Because of how bloated and unfun to play againts.You giving them aoe fear,lifesteal,minions all this condition damage but still not enough .Lets give a second life bar  and attack speed steroid which turn to fight immediately and makes them a bullet sponge kitten.

People who gonna defend necros gonna say "oh its ez just peel from far,dont get near him ,cc and stuff" but there is an issue in PVP.This is an objective base game and as long you don't enter to circle and secure to point you losing point and İT stays there.Soaking damage,waiting you to get close so it can turn to leach form and destroy you.And plus even in downstate it lifesteals.I remember in one game I downstate to necro with inch of my hp.İt downstate me with basic attacks leech me and get back again.

Because of this every time I played necro I feel like scum.But unfortunatelly for Legendary backpack I have to.Maybe A-net should balance to classes seperately for pvp and pve.So mode they overperform that doesn't ruin to other modes.

 

Sorry for grammar.

 

Necro is super vulnerable to range dps and cc, bloated mess is engi and ele (just saying).

[Arheundel.6451]

5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Sure, and if you recall properly, rev was basically a newborn while the other were there for already a few years. Engi had a very low population while the other 7 had very similar populations.

1. Elementalist was top tier everywhere yet was only 4th on the list (Stomping in small scale PvP 1vX, bringing rain of destruction alongside support in large scale PvP, getting dungeon paths solo records and having the meta for PvE at an amazing 4 Ele + 1 thief or 1 mesmer. The elementalist was doing the support and the damage, the other? They brought stealth and portal to make thing faster). See how popularity is a bad indicator of balance?
2. Guardian was 1st? Was guardian meta in PvE? Heck no, what a joke! Was guardian especially strong in sPvP? Nope not really, he could either take a beating or go glass and die quickly (winning 1vX... Nope). In WvW? Well... Stability thank you.
3. Warrior was second? You know why? Fastest character to get a free lion chest key (create and delete!). Was it strong in PvE end game? Certainly, it was even a contender for solo dungeon path records (still people would have rather have you coming as an elementalist than as a warrior). In PvP? He was mostly struggling (and he still is). In WvW? He was there for melee CC and disappeared with the pirateship meta and then revenant.
4. Ranger was 3rd? The amount of hate and prejudice it had in PvE was quite impressive yet the number of people wanting to play "Legolas" was at it's highest. In WvW? lol pet... In sPvP? Objectively pathetic after the shortbow attack speed nerf.
5. Mesmer? Rarely seen in PvE end game. Portal bot in WvW. Shattercat in small scale PvP. Sustained damage? Abysmal. I'm actually impressed that it was more played than necromancer.
6. Necromancer? Only mesmer had lower damage output than necromancer. Utility? None outside of corrupting boon in WvW. Roaming potential? Close to 0. PvE? No blast and dark field, get out of here. Your mobility skill put you in combat? What a joke, get out.
7. Thief? Actually very useful in PvE yet difficult to find there. sPvP? Thief, thiefs everywhere. WvW? I can swear that outside of the  rush hours there were more thiefs on WvW maps than any other professions. Yet, only 7th.

Now, do you perhaps see why I say that popularity is irrelevant in balance? The most OP thing was 4th while the least was 3rd most popular.

Dhuumfire could apply 4s burn on crit with a 10s CD and that was seen as "OP". If you were to look at how it has been nerfed now instead from how your memory seem to see it, you'd just laugh and say it's a joke of a nerf. Especially since it ended up losing it's ICD and being put on an AA. Dhuumfire to this day is still one of the single most OP trait of the necromancer.

NB.: I must say you made me laugh with your "nerfed from Orbit". Then you see Scourge's barrier reduced by 70% and you say: "Pfft, that's just a small slap on the hand!". You see epidemic get a 75% nerf: "Necromancer is really lucky, the devs don't dare nerfing it!".

 

Look, I could go on with your whole post, yet it would just waste my time a little bit more.

Do you know what bias?

It's to dare to compare a kitten slap on the wrist to an actual heavy handed nerf

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Cascade

1k barrier with a 1.5 coefficient on a 12s CD base......"QQ I GOT NERFED SO HARD"

Then we have elementalist with ..barrier ...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Refreshment

Min dual attack CD is 18s CD......1/4 of scourge barrier number and 1/3 of the healing coefficient.

Necro mains say they got nerfed all the times....the GW2 playerbase ....god

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[The Boz.2038]

You are comparing a single skill that is designed to provide barrier to a trait that affects *six* different skills, that do loads of other things, but can now also provide barrier.
If your approach to dual attack skills is "use this every 18 seconds, and camp this attunement", then boy... Yeah.

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 3/26/2022 at 7:36 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

Hmmm....ele has invulnerabilities......blocks and evades....but necro playerbase outnumber eles by 10 to 1, you'd think otherwise reading comments like yours, since HoT launch, the necro playerbase has increased tenfold....and now it's 2nd most played class after Guardian while ele with all its blocks...invulnerabilities ...lies almost at the bottom and you rarely see anything but a healbot tempest in wvw these days and some fire weaver in gold pvp.

Necro is due heavy nerfs....since Feb 2020, I am expecting the shroud nerfs to be extended to wvw

Let's be real here; ele is a hard profession with a low floor and a high ceiling, can't specialize into an aesthetic theme, and has ugly weapons, whereas necro isn't that difficult to be decent on while having a slightly lower ceiling ever since they reworked SR and speed runes and gave it one of the facerolliest specs in the game in PoF and nerfed the entire game's damage to the point it can't be punished by CC builds like it was before thanks to reducing CC skill damage by 99%, plus it has fantastic weapons and a cohesive central theme.

Ele in its high-tier usage (not the average player) has historically been and currently is one of the best professions in the game in PvE and has a number of instances where it was top dog in the PvP modes as well.

It's less about the power potential that draws people to necro so much as it is its accessibility per performance measure in the low-middle tiers of play and blatantly superior themes.

Reaper is also blatantly one of the most fun specs in the entire game by a significant margin between having great cleave damage, awesome VFX, and skill resets.

Frankly what needs nerfs is speed runes because that's more or less what breaks necro.

[Dadnir.5038]

46 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Do you know what bias?

It's to dare to compare a kitten slap on the wrist to an actual heavy handed nerf

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Cascade

1k barrier with a 1.5 coefficient on a 12s CD base......"QQ I GOT NERFED SO HARD"

Then we have elementalist with ..barrier ...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Refreshment

Min dual attack CD is 18s CD......1/4 of scourge barrier number and 1/3 of the healing coefficient.

Necro mains say they got nerfed all the times....the GW2 playerbase ....god

I know I shouldn't continue to answer you but:

You're comparing a profession that have range aoe healing on an auto attack to a profession that don't.

You're comparing a profession with aoe healing output on it's regular weaponkits to a profession that have none.

You're conparing a minor trait to a major trait.

You're comparing a trait that affect a single skill to a trait that affect 6 skills per weaponset (like The boz very well said).

Dual attacks have a CD that range from 12s to 20s.

You're comparing the incomparable and even your arguments aren't accurate. The healing output of an elementalist (any spec) is simply obscene compared to what the necromancer can do (any spec). Yet you're there singling out traits that have vastly different fonctions within vastly different context and trying to compare them. Yes, indeed your example is perfect to show what it is to be biased.

[Majirah.5089]

I used to hate necros a lot in pvp. Sometimes they can still annoy me, but so does every other class at times. The fact of the matter is that I am just not as good as many others and there I no reason to resort to blaming class balance. 
 

I have found that the following works well when facing necros or when I am a necro facing others:

-Heavy ranged damage

-cc

-focus fire

 

The first two you can do on your own depending on your build. The last point I know may cause contention, but it’s true. It is true for all cases. If teams would learn to focus fire more on priority targets, then team fights would go a lot better. 

 

[KrHome.1920]

After 9 years, someone managed to land on my ignore list... can't stand these nonsense posts anymore.

topic: 

On 3/26/2022 at 2:01 PM, Carnage.6751 said:

Necromancer class in this game my absolute most hated design ever. Because of how bloated and unfun to play againts

That's what I think when fighting soulbeast (burst and bunker) or scrapper (nades). Unlike any necro spec these specs have access to every single mechanic in the game (stealth, blocks, leaps, range, melee, cc, all relevant offensive and defensive boons).

If you have trouble fighting a necro, then ask some teef friend how to kite at the right moment (teef is only playable if you know how to kite, so any half decent teef can teach you a few things). Once you learned this, necro will be your favorite encounter.

Edited March 29, 2022 by KrHome.1920

[The Boz.2038]

17 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Let's be real here; ele is a hard profession with a low floor and a high ceiling

This is kinda besides the point, but just want to correct this tiny bit.
When it comes to discussing skill level requirements, a "low floor" means that a class is approachable and easy to do "kinda okay" with soon, without being a god at the game. A "high floor" is the opposite, you require a high degree of understanding and mechanical skill to do even okay on it. 
Elementalist is high floor, mostly, because if you don't really understand the kit, you aren't likely to do anything right. Necromancer is, in this "do at least somewhat okay" area, better off, and is fairly low floor; it's easier to do good on. This doesn't affect their ceilings.

[Dadnir.5038]

45 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

This is kinda besides the point, but just want to correct this tiny bit.
When it comes to discussing skill level requirements, a "low floor" means that a class is approachable and easy to do "kinda okay" with soon, without being a god at the game. A "high floor" is the opposite, you require a high degree of understanding and mechanical skill to do even okay on it. 
Elementalist is high floor, mostly, because if you don't really understand the kit, you aren't likely to do anything right. Necromancer is, in this "do at least somewhat okay" area, better off, and is fairly low floor; it's easier to do good on. This doesn't affect their ceilings.

I will disagree with you, I think deceiverX is right with talking about a low floor.

The elementalist can be played in a pretty minimalist way and be successful. A build where you simply camp fire can produce decent damage with very little effort. A build where you simply camp water can offer more than a decent amount of outgoing healing with very little effort. As such, talking about a "low floor" for elementalist isn't wrong.

Sticking to a rigid rotation to optimize damage is artificially raising one's skill floor and, indeed, make thing difficult for the player. It's putting oneself on the level of a bot but without the computing ability of the said bot yet having the extra need to add judgment for your positioning. You'll see 99% of the population unable to make it work unless they are extra motivated.

Knowing when to use each skill of the kit optimally in a flexible way is when you reach the ceilling of the elementalist and, yes, this ceiling is sky high, probably unreachable.