Vindicator Dodge, not immune to DMG / CC?

[Ragebru.1397]

As title suggests, I've been CC'd or have died to spike damage while in midair numerous times. I have also realized that the Saint of zu Heltzer often does not heal (notably if you use an ability shortly after landing). Is this intended, or are these just early release bugs? These seem to drastically affect the ability to perform well with consistency with this class...

[Angesombre.4630]

In a test against a trap guard he chained me with his F1 and while I was in the air attracted with the continuation of the skill I landed in the traps without being able to do anything while I was in the air during the dodge ....

[Alik.9651]

I'm not sure about other class, but ... afaik most Revenant skill with dodge the dodge effect didn't match the skill animation

most of the time Revenant still got hit / CC at the skill first active, and when the attack landed

sometime I even got CC on the half way of my hammer#3

I cannot confirm it is bugged, or it was caused by my ping (my normal ping is around 220~250)

[Shao.7236]

Looks like a latency issue in most cases, they should let it be a bit more forgiving imo.

[Ragebru.1397]

14 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Looks like a latency issue in most cases, they should let it be a bit more forgiving imo.

35 ping, highest spike of 70's.. so don't see that being an issue

[phokus.8934]

5 hours ago, Ragebru.1397 said:

35 ping, highest spike of 70's.. so don't see that being an issue

Yep definitely not a latency issue.  I've had this happen to me with hammer 3 and dodging in air.  There could be certain skills that don't allow you to dodge through (while already dodging) but it has happened.

[Aeolus.3615]

7 hours ago, Ragebru.1397 said:

35 ping, highest spike of 70's.. so don't see that being an issue

Desync, wasnt it one of the reasons Anet had to drop pvp E-Spruts?

[Zenith.7301]

28 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Desync, wasnt it one of the reasons Anet had to drop pvp E-Spruts?

It's not that.

 

The vindicator dodge loses the immunity frames shortly before landing. There's like a 0.2-0.4 sec period when about to land where you are vulnerable to attacks and CC.

 

The obvious fix would be to extend immunity frames until you land on the floor and maybe even a 0.2 sec grace period after.

 

F2 needs ti be changed, it's absolute garbage. energy cost, cast time for half a dodge bar. What it should be is an instant cast distortion/evade effect that grants aoe vigor (the spec is in serious needs of endogenous vigor sources).

[Howluffu.7259]

I've been CC upon jumping so it has gargabe i-frames.

About the F2 I will continue saying that it is a bandage to the spec. As long as Vindicator has F2 working as giving endurance it means Vindicator is a convoluted mess spec.

I dare to say devs don't even know what to do with it and just gave up on trying to make sense hence the F2.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Lol it's not latency, that's bull kitten. The evade frames do not last the entirety of the animation. It has been like this since beta. This is one big reason Vindicator isn't so good in PvP - one dodge and you telegraph your position and remain hittable without being able to act. It's a good open world specialization though.

Edited March 31, 2022 by nosleepdemon.1368

[Shao.7236]

57 minutes ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

Lol it's not latency, that's bull kitten. The evade frames do not last the entirety of the animation. It has been like this since beta. This is one big reason Vindicator isn't so good in PvP - one dodge and you telegraph your position and remain hittable without being able to act. It's a good open world specialization though.

Pretty sure it does last long enough, interpolation is just not forgiving enough for it to matter since there's a big big tell when the evade ends on the floor on top of it.

 

Latency doesn't mean exclusively your own ping, but everyone else that follow too. Game plays based of on a lot of predictions and it's clear that Vindicators evade need a bit more wiggle room at the start because I've been stunned numerous times at the start of my animation, unable to move but still deal damage afterwards. The end evade is easy to mitigate since you can have about 4 different options to follow with something safely but it doesn't stop the fact that because the mechanics are so stiff even with the lowest ping if someone perfectly predicts which isn't hard do so with the circle telling them, you're bound to be counterplayed in certain cases, there's way to mitigate that on Revenant but it is no less not just mechanic, it's a flaw with online gaming in general.

 

My ping is just as low as OP btw.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Shao.7236

[otto.5684]

19 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Looks like a latency issue in most cases, they should let it be a bit more forgiving imo.

It is not. It does not happen to any other skill, on rev or otherwise. It does not happen every time, but often enough that it is very noticeable. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by otto.5684

[Shao.7236]

49 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

It is not. It does not happen to any other skill, on rev or otherwise. It does not happen every time, but often enough that it is very noticeable. 

Be the last time I try to explain how interp(lerp) works in gaming in my last post since nobody quite gets what it is. I know that not everyone here is meant to understand what it is, it's not easy but it's as forward as just understanding that whatever your connection might be there's more to it than just ping.

 

Desyncs with things such as Bullscharge are the proof that GW2 doesn't have perfect interp to begin with client predictions. Both players can have perfectly fine ping and still run into improper gameplay as such, being the game GW2 is with large amounts of players constantly in pace with you even when not fighting.

 

Making mechanics perfectly in sync with their animations online is bound to have imperfections showing thus why a lot of things have extra buffers usually applied to make the mechanics more bearable.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Shao.7236

[Virdo.1540]

It even gets hit by the necro spectral ring even though it optically literally jump over the ring

[nosleepdemon.1368]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

Be the last time I try to explain how interp(lerp) works in gaming in my last post since nobody quite gets what it is. I know that not everyone here is meant to understand what it is, it's not easy but it's as forward as just understanding that whatever your connection might be there's more to it than just ping.

 

Desyncs with things such as Bullscharge are the proof that GW2 doesn't have perfect interp to begin with client predictions. Both players can have perfectly fine ping and still run into improper gameplay as such, being the game GW2 is with large amounts of players constantly in pace with you even when not fighting.

 

Making mechanics perfectly in sync with their animations online is bound to have imperfections showing thus why a lot of things have extra buffers usually applied to make the mechanics more bearable.

 

I wouldn't lump client/server synchronization with 'latency' because the former is as you say, far more nuanced. Latency problems would imply the length of the evade frames should match the length of the skill, even if the two don't match up. When you mentioned latency, that was my first assumption of what you meant.

 

Regarding the skill, I find I will evade normally for a moment, as if performing a regular dodge roll. Then, I'll be affected by skills like normal yet still be in the leaping state, unable to use my own skills until I land. Other skills have periods of animation associated with an effect, and they do not appear to cancel the same way Vindi dodge does. Perhaps it pulses evade frames, and it is possible to get caught outside of them. The volume of actions taken against you in PvP for example, would be enough to break it. Yet the first evade frame would still work, giving the impression that it cuts short. Blocking rarely runs into any issue like this, so I am inclined to believe that GW2s net code can at least easily handle sustained blocks, so why does Vindi dodge fail so spectacularly when other comperable skills used in similarly 'demanding' situations do not? Maybe it is not possible to sustain evade frames the same way you can block, and this was the best ANet could do.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Be the last time I try to explain how interp(lerp) works in gaming in my last post since nobody quite gets what it is. I know that not everyone here is meant to understand what it is, it's not easy but it's as forward as just understanding that whatever your connection might be there's more to it than just ping.

 

Desyncs with things such as Bullscharge are the proof that GW2 doesn't have perfect interp to begin with client predictions. Both players can have perfectly fine ping and still run into improper gameplay as such, being the game GW2 is with large amounts of players constantly in pace with you even when not fighting.

 

Making mechanics perfectly in sync with their animations online is bound to have imperfections showing thus why a lot of things have extra buffers usually applied to make the mechanics more bearable.

Are the bugged smaller hit boxes on vindi also latency issues? Is 3 not rushing 900units as stated latency issue? Why normal dodge works just fine while everyone complains about getting hit in vindi one? Alright lets also blame it on voodoo latency.

[Sereath.1428]

Imagine only having one dodge and not even a fully iframe protected one.
Vindicator moment

Edited April 1, 2022 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Tekk.6789]

On 3/30/2022 at 9:32 PM, Ragebru.1397 said:

I have also realized that the Saint of zu Heltzer often does not heal (notably if you use an ability shortly after landing).

It also happens with death drop and it will deal no damage. I made a post a while ago in the bug report thread and it still hasn't been fixed. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by nikotuck.7259

[Shao.7236]

4 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

 

I wouldn't lump client/server synchronization with 'latency' because the former is as you say, far more nuanced. Latency problems would imply the length of the evade frames should match the length of the skill, even if the two don't match up. When you mentioned latency, that was my first assumption of what you meant.

 

Regarding the skill, I find I will evade normally for a moment, as if performing a regular dodge roll. Then, I'll be affected by skills like normal yet still be in the leaping state, unable to use my own skills until I land. Other skills have periods of animation associated with an effect, and they do not appear to cancel the same way Vindi dodge does. Perhaps it pulses evade frames, and it is possible to get caught outside of them. The volume of actions taken against you in PvP for example, would be enough to break it. Yet the first evade frame would still work, giving the impression that it cuts short. Blocking rarely runs into any issue like this, so I am inclined to believe that GW2s net code can at least easily handle sustained blocks, so why does Vindi dodge fail so spectacularly when other comperable skills used in similarly 'demanding' situations do not? Maybe it is not possible to sustain evade frames the same way you can block, and this was the best ANet could do.

I've had blocking getting interrupted at the start of the skill several times because I didn't do it soon enough and I know of it because my skill went on CD. I'm on low ping, the problem does exist, it's just a lot more obvious on this part because like I said past post, the start of the evade just seems to be stretched out and needs to be more forgiving.

 

3 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Are the bugged smaller hit boxes on vindi also latency issues? Is 3 not rushing 900units as stated latency issue? Why normal dodge works just fine while everyone complains about getting hit in vindi one? Alright lets also blame it on voodoo latency.

" it's clear that Vindicators evade need a bit more wiggle room at the start because I've been stunned numerous times at the start of my animation" I'm not denying it, only saying the evade isn't the only issue.

[phokus.8934]

Interpolation is how this game works with regards to synching movement.  The client side controls that and then sends updates to the server.  It's why teleport and speed hacks will always persist.

The synchronization of skills is only part of the problem.  I've had hammer 3, while in the air, get interrupted.  This game just had weird interactions with these type of mechanics and I'll agree, they should and probably do make changes to count for some of these anomalies.

So it's not entirely the synchronization of movement.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

3 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

I've had blocking getting interrupted at the start of the skill several times because I didn't do it soon enough and I know of it because my skill went on CD. I'm on low ping, the problem does exist, it's just a lot more obvious on this part because like I said past post, the start of the evade just seems to be stretched out and needs to be more forgiving.

 

" it's clear that Vindicators evade need a bit more wiggle room at the start because I've been stunned numerous times at the start of my animation" I'm not denying it, only saying the evade isn't the only issue.

Starting the evade is *not* the issue. This is not a case of player not hitting dodge fast enough from the perspective of the server. The evade gets cancelled mid-animation. THAT is the problem, and it isn't sporadic, it isn't out of step, it's simply too short an evade duration every single time.

Edited April 1, 2022 by nosleepdemon.1368

[Ragebru.1397]

12 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

The evade gets cancelled mid-animation. 

With GW2 combat system revolving so much around visual queue's- it's pretty insane that they wouldn't allow immunity for the entirety of the ability's animation sequence. 

[Shao.7236]

16 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

Starting the evade is *not* the issue. This is not a case of player not hitting dodge fast enough from the perspective of the server. The evade gets cancelled mid-animation. THAT is the problem, and it isn't sporadic, it isn't out of step, it's simply too short an evade duration every single time.

Getting stunned at the start of evade is still an issue that happens anyway and that's what I'm having problems with because in most cases that's where final effect fails for me, this isn't a fictious incident.

 

This isn't off topic it literally co-relates with OP having problems with the evade.

 

End of normal evades have much more of a grace period visually than Vindicator does which is why to me it feels less forgiving.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Getting stunned at the start of evade is still an issue that happens anyway and that's what I'm having problems with because in most cases that's where final effect fails for me, this isn't a fictious incident.

 

This isn't off topic it literally co-relates with OP having problems with the evade.

 

End of normal evades have much more of a grace period visually than Vindicator does which is why to me it feels less forgiving.

 

You tell posters they misunderstand the reason for the evade frames failing, yet miss this very line in the OP that clearly states the nature of the problem:

 

"As title suggests, I've been CC'd or have died to spike damage while in midair numerous times"

 

This isn't about miss timing the start of the evade, and referring to it as such and then explaining why that may be the case, while refuting everyone who is actually on topic creates confusion. You should better clarify your position.

Edited April 2, 2022 by nosleepdemon.1368

[Mike.7983]

Being pulled mid air by a guardian just feels bad, plus if you land on a stun field your dodge hit is nulled.