Vindicator Dodge, not immune to DMG / CC?

[Shao.7236]

4 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

 

You tell posters they misunderstand the reason for the evade frames failing, yet miss this very line in the OP that clearly states the nature of the problem:

 

"As title suggests, I've been CC'd or have died to spike damage while in midair numerous times"

 

This isn't about miss timing the start of the evade, and referring to it as such and then explaining why that may be the case, while refuting everyone who is actually on topic creates confusion. You should better clarify your position.

It's hardly any clearer for OP, you're sticking just as hard to your guns like I am stupidly in the wrong? To complain about what is obviously normal compared what isn't, everyone completely denying and memeing what is actually and factually a problem while the other is just design decisions. These sub-forums are just, wow.

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789352464876568577/959901527500279808/evadebug.mp4

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789352464876568577/959901528095862805/evadebug2.mp4

Edited April 2, 2022 by Shao.7236

[otto.5684]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:21 PM, Shao.7236 said:

Be the last time I try to explain how interp(lerp) works in gaming in my last post since nobody quite gets what it is. I know that not everyone here is meant to understand what it is, it's not easy but it's as forward as just understanding that whatever your connection might be there's more to it than just ping.

 

Desyncs with things such as Bullscharge are the proof that GW2 doesn't have perfect interp to begin with client predictions. Both players can have perfectly fine ping and still run into improper gameplay as such, being the game GW2 is with large amounts of players constantly in pace with you even when not fighting.

 

Making mechanics perfectly in sync with their animations online is bound to have imperfections showing thus why a lot of things have extra buffers usually applied to make the mechanics more bearable.

I get you. The issue is it happens way to often, compared to other similar skills, that desync alone does not account for it. It is bugged.

[Shao.7236]

3 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

I get you. The issue is it happens way to often, compared to other similar skills, that desync alone does not account for it. It is bugged.

OP is vague, it's two different pages that still highlight related issues anyway that needs to be addressed. At least in someway, Stability compensates but it is arguably nicer to think we could have the evade reflect on what it actually looks like which is being high up above everything to not be interrupted by wards of sort.

However I don't think tethers like Spear should be ignored, it's just counter play. It happens with any types of evades.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Shao.7236

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

There ARE effects in the game currently that CC Vindicator mid dodge and are not being properly evaded by the dodge.  These are NOT latency issues. 

For example: 
Soo-Won's hand slap wave attack will CC and knock the Vindicator out of dodge.  Not latency
Samarog's Spears can taunt and CC the vindicator mid dodge.  Not latency
Elite Mordrem Flopper in Octovine meta can use AoE taunt to pull the vindicator out of its dodge.  Not latency

There are more.  Is latency possibly also a cause in some situations?  Possibly, sure, but it's not THE cause.  All of the ones I have listed above are reproducible 100% of the time.  The dodge is not currently functioning the way it should in all scenarios which means it's mostly a coding error/bug within certain situations, not random latency. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Shao.7236]

7 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

There ARE effects in the game currently that CC Vindicator mid dodge and are not being properly evaded by the dodge.  These are NOT latency issues. 

For example: 
Soo-Won's hand slap wave attack will CC and knock the Vindicator out of dodge.  Not latency
Samarog's Spears can taunt and CC the vindicator mid dodge.  Not latency
Elite Mordrem Flopper in Octovine meta can use AoE taunt to pull the vindicator out of its dodge

There are more.  Is latency possibly also a cause in some situations?  Possibly, sure, but it's not THE cause.  All of the ones I have listed above are reproducible 100% of the time.  The dodge is not currently functioning the way it should in all scenarios which means it's mostly a coding error/bug within certain situations, not random latency. 

With hardly any context based on the different experiences that I've had compared anyone else. Being pulled out of evade via spear of justice or by some kind of ward is just typical. If something never was evadable to begin with then it shouldn't come off as a surprise. If it is evadable and Vindicator gets screwed by it then it is a bug obviously. That's just not what I was referring to, see quotes for what I actually meant and somehow the existence is being denied by players.

 

That is on low ping while corelating to the lack of after effects for chosen evades as well.

 

Quote

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789352464876568577/959901527500279808/evadebug.mp4

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789352464876568577/959901528095862805/evadebug2.mp4

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Shao.7236

[RabbitUp.8294]

5 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

There ARE effects in the game currently that CC Vindicator mid dodge and are not being properly evaded by the dodge.  These are NOT latency issues. 

For example: 
Soo-Won's hand slap wave attack will CC and knock the Vindicator out of dodge.  Not latency
Samarog's Spears can taunt and CC the vindicator mid dodge.  Not latency
Elite Mordrem Flopper in Octovine meta can use AoE taunt to pull the vindicator out of its dodge.  Not latency

There are more.  Is latency possibly also a cause in some situations?  Possibly, sure, but it's not THE cause.  All of the ones I have listed above are reproducible 100% of the time.  The dodge is not currently functioning the way it should in all scenarios which means it's mostly a coding error/bug within certain situations, not random latency. 

I don't know about the first two, but the third one is working as intended. That taunt cannot be evaded by regular dodge rolls either.

Same for dragonhunter spear, it has always been able to pull the tethered target mid-evade.

[Ragebru.1397]

10 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

I don't know about the first two, but the third one is working as intended. That taunt cannot be evaded by regular dodge rolls either.

Same for dragonhunter spear, it has always been able to pull the tethered target mid-evade.

I think the vindicator jump should hardly be considered a "regular dodge". You disappear from the screen because your character jumps. Similar to mirage having a prolonged invulnerability, vindicator should have a prolonged and wider range (in terms of what abilities it can avoid) of immunity. 

 

edit: and I realize some people might like to point out the dodge being unique in the sense that it has a high heal or damage option, but in the sense of dps AND healing- it's a sacrifice, because during that duration we are unable to unload other sources of damage/healing (which ultimately lowers our dps/hps).

Edited April 3, 2022 by Ragebru.1397

[phokus.8934]

Mirage Cloak was normalized to .75s which is the same as a regular dodge.

[Ragebru.1397]

1 hour ago, phokus.8934 said:

Mirage Cloak was normalized to .75s which is the same as a regular dodge.

Ah, my bad. Haven't touched it in a long time. However, the same applies in the sense that they are still able to perform attacks during their immunity (something you cannot achieve during a roll). With the vindicators prolonged animation, there needs to be either total immunity, or make it to where abilities can be used while midair. 

[RabbitUp.8294]

On 4/4/2022 at 12:13 AM, Ragebru.1397 said:

I think the vindicator jump should hardly be considered a "regular dodge". You disappear from the screen because your character jumps. Similar to mirage having a prolonged invulnerability, vindicator should have a prolonged and wider range (in terms of what abilities it can avoid) of immunity. 

 

edit: and I realize some people might like to point out the dodge being unique in the sense that it has a high heal or damage option, but in the sense of dps AND healing- it's a sacrifice, because during that duration we are unable to unload other sources of damage/healing (which ultimately lowers our dps/hps).

That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I answered to whether it was a bug or not. It's not.

Now if you feel like it should work differently, that's a different matter entirely and has nothing to do with what I was saying.

Daredevil can't activate other skills either, and for what it's worth, changing it to invulnerability will have unintended consequences in pvp as it will prevent point capture.

 

[RisenHowl.2419]

All of the vind dodges are bugged. Even with stability you can't cross ground CC like line of warding, uneven ground, spectral ring, etc without it knocking you out of the dodge early.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

9 hours ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

All of the vind dodges are bugged. Even with stability you can't cross ground CC like line of warding, uneven ground, spectral ring, etc without it knocking you out of the dodge early.

I guess it's just as intended as GS5 not hitting stealthed targets anymore. They probably want it to stay that way so necros could chain cc their targets forever

[Redfeather.6401]

When I am in WvW and see a blob and do my dodge I die almost 100% of the time in 'mist space' or whatever state my dodge is in. It's not an evasion that's for sure.

[Catchyfx.5768]

17 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said:

When I am in WvW and see a blob and do my dodge I die almost 100% of the time in 'mist space' or whatever state my dodge is in. It's not an evasion that's for sure.

yea in WvW dodging is very punishing in blob fights and you have to go always for safe landing.
My problem is, we jump with dodge into space, but guard wall can knock me... it is very silly. Change animation, or give us some noncc frame for those mechanics... I dont want to be invuln. It will be OP. But when you go dodge, and necro puts fear wall on ground and you got hit by it and insta fall...:D 100 energy for nothing

GS5 problem, as stated above. My problem is it is single target weapon. Max targets i was able to hit was 3.(explosions followed 3 ppl). I've noticed some ppl can "dodge it" by running around me in some angle(they are in range, but even if 100rang from me, no hit is applied.) just another Sw3 rng mechanic 😄

 

[SexyMofo.8923]

Bug or not, it’s bad and a lifetime of laughter. 

[Howluffu.7259]

They just don't care about the vindi anyway. Probably was made in a drunk party night slapping a bunch of random ideas on a paper and starting to making the class in a Oh kitten! We are late in delivery! still with the hungover in the head disabling the last cells of cognition the devs had.

[Buran.3796]

On 4/7/2022 at 10:19 AM, Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

I guess it's just as intended as GS5 not hitting stealthed targets anymore. They probably want it to stay that way so necros could chain cc their targets forever

   For sure. Since the Forced Engagement range nerf battles against good necros with Renebow builds are a lost battle and those variants are fading from Ranked. They have now always a 300 unit range advantage and only need to hit you with a single cc (fear, chill... ) and then use corrupt and the fight is over. In best case scenario you breakstun and flee so then they don't use corrupt but still have plenty of cc and erease you from the euqation with a single skill.

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   For sure. Since the Forced Engagement range nerf battles against good necros with Renebow builds are a lost battle and those variants are fading from Ranked. They have now always a 300 unit range advantage and only need to hit you with a single cc (fear, chill... ) and then use corrupt and the fight is over. In best case scenario you breakstun and flee so then they don't use corrupt but still have plenty of cc and erease you from the euqation with a single skill.

It's not counting the fact that while moving forward chasing a target you lose distance on the skill, even if the tool tip says you're in range, by the time it reaches at the target it becomes out of range because the projectile is too slow to reach at the time it has a valid range.

 

Prior to any of the changes Forced Engagement would always miss sideways targets, only still or linear motions relative to you could make it work, truly this change to me has marked the ignorance and would I even call incompetence that the team has when it comes to changing the game.

 

The changes introduces so much jank to what used to be already limited skill to be even more limited, it's insulting to the players.

[Shao.7236]

On 4/6/2022 at 6:51 PM, RisenHowl.2419 said:

All of the vind dodges are bugged. Even with stability you can't cross ground CC like line of warding, uneven ground, spectral ring, etc without it knocking you out of the dodge early.

Nah, stability does allow for it. Except wards have such a high priority and the moment you have no Stability, you're vulnerable. While if you have 2 stacks of stability, the internal cooldown before you can be cc'd again is much greater and makes it easier to just go on about your day while crossing wards.

 

Although, that's the issue here, they nerfed Inspiring Reinforcement in a way that I can accept it for the pulses for just having 1 a second but the initial stability shouldn't have been touched, it quite literally leaves a 1 second gap for you to get cc'd before the pulses and it's even more irritating that if you use the skill reactively that you have a higher chance of being punished than not doing so because much of all cc's take more than a second to hit you if you put down the road by reaction, making the use the of the skill completely pointless.

[RisenHowl.2419]

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Nah, stability does allow for it. Except wards have such a high priority and the moment you have no Stability, you're vulnerable. While if you have 2 stacks of stability, the internal cooldown before you can be cc'd again is much greater and makes it easier to just go on about your day while crossing wards.

 

Although, that's the issue here, they nerfed Inspiring Reinforcement in a way that I can accept it for the pulses for just having 1 a second but the initial stability shouldn't have been touched, it quite literally leaves a 1 second gap for you to get cc'd before the pulses and it's even more irritating that if you use the skill reactively that you have a higher chance of being punished than not doing so because much of all cc's take more than a second to hit you if you put down the road by reaction, making the use the of the skill completely pointless.

I've got multiple clips of getting CCd out of my jumps by lines and spectral ring while I have 5+ stacks of stab. They don't knock you down or fear you, but they stop your iframes and cut your dodge short

[Klowdy.3126]

On 4/5/2022 at 4:21 AM, RabbitUp.8294 said:

That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I answered to whether it was a bug or not. It's not.

Now if you feel like it should work differently, that's a different matter entirely and has nothing to do with what I was saying.

Daredevil can't activate other skills either, and for what it's worth, changing it to invulnerability will have unintended consequences in pvp as it will prevent point capture.

 

I would go full energy cheese, and jump around all day, lol.

[Justine.6351]

Lol?

You cannot evade through wards since forever. And I am pretty sure pull chains have always pulled people mid evade.

[Shao.7236]

4 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Lol?

You cannot evade through wards since forever. And I am pretty sure pull chains have always pulled people mid evade.

That right there is why I assume they were talking about the bugs I experience, because it's nothing out of the ordinary otherwise.