Alternative path for PVE Legendary Armor

[Fenom.9457]

I’ve hated for years that you HAD to raid to get legendary armor.  Well, you can get it elsewhere but one, you’re being forced into another game mode rather than being given full choice, and two, more importantly, those sets aren’t really legendary.  The skins are exactly identical to the ascended versions. And recall that not only are skins a HUGE and important part of legendaries, they were originally the ONLY reason you’d made one.  Legendaries were meant to be long term prestige goals. All the convenience and function like stat swapping and the armory has been added later.  So the PvP and WvW armor sets are ‘legendaries’ that ONLY offer the newer features of the system, and DONT have the original purpose of legendaries. So yeah, the only way to get TRUE legendary armor is raids. It is your one option, I hate that so much.  I’ve kind of given up complaining about it since I got my own set because it seems like anet just refused to listen to us on this point, but even though I now have the envoy set I still despise the fact you can only get legendary armor from raids.  I’d love to make a second set if they did PvE, or even competitive mode sets that had actual unique skins.  I also would like it for the other two weight classes because no way in hell I’m gonna endure that much raiding 

[Turial.1293]

4 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Sure thing OP. Maybe offer the same treatment for WvW and PvP legendary armor?  
 

Why not legendary weapons too?  How about GoB and GoE?

I mean if people don’t want to actually play the game and just buy the best gear, may as well give players in all game modes a chance to cash in right?

Completely devaluing content because players are too lazy to play it, or because players aren’t satisfied with the gold they earn, does not seem like a good move. 

On that sarcastic note how about increase value of everything in the game by making every item account-bound. Let's cease all trading because players are too lazy these days. If you didn't earn it yourself then you don't deserve it.

 

Extreme scenarios are dumb.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

Every game mode has a way to get legendary armor, no need to change anything. 

But only two of those ways are meant for all players of said mode. Third (the PvE one) is not. It's meant only for a small minority of players of this mode.

To rephrase it, while all SPvPers and WvWers have a way to get legendary armor, of all PvErs only raiders do. Most PvErs do not.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

27 minutes ago, Turial.1293 said:

On that sarcastic note how about increase value of everything in the game by making every item account-bound. Let's cease all trading because players are too lazy these days. If you didn't earn it yourself then you don't deserve it.

 

Extreme scenarios are dumb.

My point was more so that there are multiple ways to attain legendary armor, and the OP was suggesting a change to account bound items from only one of them. If it’s good enough for raiding, it’s should be good enough for WvW and PvP. 
 

As well, why should raiders get the benefit of being able to sell account bound materials but not WvW or PvP players?  
 

My suggestion was by no means extreme, it was about balancing the game modes with this proposed change.

[Syvaris Laskaris.5247]

1 minute ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

As well, why should raiders get the benefit of being able to sell account bound materials but not WvW or PvP players?  

Because WvW players aren't allowed to make gold, did you not get the briefing?

[Vizardlorde.8243]

2 hours ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

So? That OW and instanced content have same balance doesn't make them same mode, many games have same balance for PvE and PvP, so what? Open world and instanced content different in their core designs and played separatly, what do you have to say about it?

You cannot use combat boosters nor consumables in raids asides from stat food and utility.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

But only two of those ways are meant for all players of said mode. Third (the PvE one) is not. It's meant only for a small minority of players of this mode.

To rephrase it, while all SPvPers and WvWers have a way to get legendary armor, of all PvErs only raiders do. Most PvErs do not.

This might be suprising, but if someone is playing mostly open world they don't really need Legendary armor.

[Peterson.5172]

what some people dont seem to understand is, more people interacting with raids = more new raids

if everyone played raids, we would be getting a new raid every 3 months like living world seasons

[rune.9572]

Leggy armor was supposed to incentivize people to do raids.

Spoiler, it didn't work.

Instead it made everyone hate it.

People are now averse to any sort of difficulty as a result (see DE meta).

So raids are dead content nowadays (even devs said so).

The remaining bunch of raiders complain about rewards.

 

Making LI tradeable would fix all those issues. kp.me already exists so KP is not a concern.

It takes massive bad faith to argue against this.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by rune.9572
added link

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

3 minutes ago, rune.9572 said:

Making LI tradeable would fix all those issues. kp.me already exists so KP is not a concern.

It takes massive bad faith to argue against this.

Making LI tradable is not a problem, because people with who have EH and Coal could finally use them for something.
The problem would be that in order to get Raid leggy you still have to Raid, even if it's not that much.

Also I can already see the "Legendary Insight too expensive" threads.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

This might be suprising, but if someone is playing mostly open world they don't really need Legendary armor.

That might be surprising, but if someone is playing SPvP they not only do not need legendary armor, they cannot even use it. And yet they've got a set. And, if we look at this deeper, noone actually needs legendary armor. Be it Openworlders, raiders, or whatever.

So, an overall bad argument.

[Erise.5614]

5 minutes ago, rune.9572 said:

Leggy armor was supposed to incentivize people to do raids.

Spoiler, it didn't work.

Instead it made everyone hate it.

People are now averse to any sort of difficulty as a result (see DE meta).

So raids are dead content nowadays (even devs said so).

The remaining bunch of raiders complain about rewards.

 

Making LI tradeable would fix all those issues. kp.me already exists so KP is not a concern.

It takes massive bad faith to argue against this.

 

 

LI are not a sustainable economy is the problem.

There could be fixes to the things you mention by introducing an item that's properly designed around TP economics. With proper currency sinks and all that.

As it stands crafting 3 armors and you're done forever puts the total necessary LI cap too low. At 750 you are done. But since raiding has different appeal supply is just gonna grow steadily while demand will remain fairly steady if not decreasing once more and more people have 1 - 2 sets. Plus all the LI people have stacked up in their mat storages right now. Just makes for an item with poor value and a heavy downwards trend in value. Devaluing legendary items in general in the process. Which would not be good for the game long term. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

That might be surprising, but if someone is playing SPvP they not only do not need legendary armor, they cannot even use it. And yet they've got a set.

Another noteworthy thing is that PvP Leggy needs League, so just play unranked 24/7 won't get you that armor.

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And, if we look at this deeper, noone actually needs legendary armor. Be it Openworlders, raiders, or whatever.

In all fairness, being able to use one set of armor for 4-5 builds with flexibility is really useful. I'm not a fan of carrying around 5-6 extra sets, because I both roam and zerg on the same character I use to play Power/CondiDPS/QuickDPS, Heal in Fractals, Raid and even tank in Raids. I kinda need the Legendary gear to swap Runes, stats and so on.

[Rinagal.9235]

31 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

This might be suprising, but if someone is playing mostly open world they don't really need Legendary armor.

It's an old argument.

a) No one really need Legendary armor or legendaries at all, therefore this cannot be used as an argument against one or several specific game modes. And OW players would make more use of legendary armor in OW then sPvPers in sPvP.

b) OW world still has different challenges of different difficulties where different builds will perform very differently, to the extent where one build won't be able to complete task that other can. So it's not up to you to decide how much OW players need legendary armor in comparison to players of other mods. There is totally use for legendary armor in open world.

 

All those "OW don't need legendary armor" is just some players being dismissive and elitistic toward OW and imagine OW players as auto-attack spammers in meta-events.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Rinagal.9235

[Rinagal.9235]

27 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

what some people dont seem to understand is, more people interacting with raids = more new raids

if everyone played raids, we would be getting a new raid every 3 months like living world seasons

Not everyone sees raids as universal good to the game, so not everyone care really or even the opposite, would be glad if Anet stopped developing said content.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

a) No one really need Legendary armor or legendaries at all, therefore this cannot be used as an argument against one or several specific game modes. And OW players would make more use of legendary armor in OW then sPvPers in sPvP.

Then what's with all these "Alternative PvE Legendary" posts if noone needs Leggies? If you don't want to Raid to get PvE Leggy while not even needing Leggy at all why ask for more ways to get it?

2 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

b) OW world still has different challenges of different difficulties where different builds will perform very differently, to the extent where one build won't be able to complete task that other can. So it's not up to you to decide how much OW players need legendary armor in comparison to players of other mods.

Never had to swap from my Power DPS build for anything in open world yet.

3 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

All those "OW don't need legendary armor" is just some players being dismissive and elitistic toward OW and imagine OW players as auto-attack spammers in meta-events.

If OW gets Legendary armor this place will be filled with "this is too hard Anet nerf" threads piled on top of eachother.

[Xerxez.7361]

39 minutes ago, rune.9572 said:

Leggy armor was supposed to incentivize people to do raids.

Spoiler, it didn't work.

Instead it made everyone hate it.

People are now averse to any sort of difficulty as a result (see DE meta).

So raids are dead content nowadays (even devs said so).

The remaining bunch of raiders complain about rewards.

 

Making LI tradeable would fix all those issues. kp.me already exists so KP is not a concern.

It takes massive bad faith to argue against this.

 

 

 

Nah, we complain about the bugs in Raids and how Raids aren't as hard as most people think they are. I wish there was a training room for each Boss that was unlockable.

 

It would allow for training on a specific Boss easier than having to clear out a Wing to a specific point each week to train Players on that boss.

[Erise.5614]

22 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Another noteworthy thing is that PvP Leggy needs League, so just play unranked 24/7 won't get you that armor.

In all fairness, being able to use one set of armor for 4-5 builds with flexibility is really useful. I'm not a fan of carrying around 5-6 extra sets, because I both roam and zerg on the same character I use to play Power/CondiDPS/QuickDPS, Heal in Fractals, Raid and even tank in Raids. I kinda need the Legendary gear to swap Runes, stats and so on.

To be fair. These multiple builds don't take up any inventory space as equipment templates bind them and free up your inventory. 

The legendary convenience is not about inventory space here. 

And the exact same argument can be made for open world players. It allows experimenting and setting up for different kinds of challenges (e.g. soloing group HPs, fast movement for gathering, max DPS for raids, support builds for when you stumble upon a group). Especially armor leads naturally towards freedom and better builds. It is extremely useful for open world players too.

Not necessary. But not useless either. 

[Astralporing.1957]

34 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Another noteworthy thing is that PvP Leggy needs League, so just play unranked 24/7 won't get you that armor.

True, but then there's absolutely no difference in playing unranked and ranked - if you can do one, you can do another as well. It's not a different type of content, it's the same content under a different name.

Which, btw, does not change the main point - SPvP (both ranked and unranked) has no use whatsoever for legendary armor. The only thing used from armor in that mode is the skin, and SPvP version does not have its own skin.

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In all fairness, being able to use one set of armor for 4-5 builds with flexibility is really useful. I'm not a fan of carrying around 5-6 extra sets, because I both roam and zerg on the same character I use to play Power/CondiDPS/QuickDPS, Heal in Fractals, Raid and even tank in Raids. I kinda need the Legendary gear to swap Runes, stats and so on.

Oh yes, it's very useful, which is why a lot of players want it. Wanting it for being useful however is not the same as needing it. Notice, though, how you've just pointed out that you find it useful in content other than raids. Why, then, would you think some other people might not also find it useful in content other than raids?

If anything, making the armor set available for OW players might help with giving them a chance to experiment with builds more than they already do (because regearing might be easy for raiders, but is definitely a massive pain for OW players). Considering the amount of posts more hardcore players make about how they would want OW players to run better builds, it would seem to be a good goal to aim for, wouldn't it?

14 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Then what's with all these "Alternative PvE Legendary" posts if noone needs Leggies?

You've just answered it yourself - because it is useful. And while it may be more useful in some types of content than in others, the only content where it is not useful at all is SPvP (which does have its own set).

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If you don't want to Raid to get PvE Leggy while not even needing Leggy at all why ask for more ways to get it?

See above.

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Never had to swap from my Power DPS build for anything in open world yet.

And i am running several builds (and characters) for OW. So, you may not see use of legendary armor in OW, but i do.

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If OW gets Legendary armor this place will be filled with "this is too hard Anet nerf" threads piled on top of eachother.

Then you will be free to comment on those then, right? Notice, however, how we don't generally see many threads about legendary weapons at all. The only point of contention seems to be GoB, and not due to its difficulty. So, perhaps the things you unnecessarily worry about would not come to pass?

Edited April 10, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Rinagal.9235]

17 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Then what's with all these "Alternative PvE Legendary" posts if noone needs Leggies? If you don't want to Raid to get PvE Leggy while not even needing Leggy at all why ask for more ways to get it?

Because legendaries never were about "really need", but about "want". What do each player want it for is player's own buisiness.

 

17 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Never had to swap from my Power DPS build for anything in open world yet.

It's your experience, i had different experience, with soloing Champion of Balthasar in AB and mushroom HP in TD for example.

 

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If OW gets Legendary armor this place will be filled with "this is too hard Anet nerf" threads piled on top of eachother.

What kind of argument is it? I can't speak for other players, but i personally asked for OW legendary armor because i wanted to acquire it by playing game mode i like, not because i wanted easy/cheap/fast legendary armor. No need to put words in other mouths and make assumptions of others "true" intentions.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Rinagal.9235

[DaFishBob.6518]

How to start a fire in the forums: ask for a way to get legendary armor in PVE without having to do raids.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, DaFishBob.6518 said:

How to start a fire in the forums: ask for a way to get legendary armor in PVE without having to do raids.

Yes, because this suggestion seems to almost be like a personal insult to some. No idea why.

[mythical.6315]

53 minutes ago, rune.9572 said:

It takes massive bad faith to argue against this.

The only thing that’s bad faith here is you using this statement for anyone that is against you. 

[Trayvon.7362]

Nah, it's fine. Want the reward? Do the content. 

[yoni.7015]

5 minutes ago, Suinz.5968 said:

Nah, it's fine. Want the reward? Do the content. 

Some people think they are special and Anet should change it just for them. It’s the same with GoB. Instead of doing what is the required they complain on the forums. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by yoni.7015