How would casuals prepare to clear Kaineng Overlook

[Cuks.8241]

1 hour ago, CaffeeCup.5742 said:

 

Another thing that truly wipes beginners is the 2nd fight Li that puts bombs under feet while preparing a big red zone Dragonslash.   It confuses beginners, because they don't want to stack, but they don't want to stand inside the big red zone.  Stand in the big red zone with good spacing between each other, and simply dodge the Slash.  I, personally, do a quick 1-2 count in my head when I see the big red zone, then I press dodge while inside it. I just ignore the explosion after but you can dodge that too

Yeah this is probably the most dangerous part for new players unless players really mess up the numbers. 

You actualy have enough time to wait out the slash behind or on the side of Li and spread afterwards.

[Ipomoea Jalapa.6897]

You could do some simple searching for guilds who do Strikes together, look at their event calendars, and show up to summarize your wishes and capabilities. I’ve encountered lots of guilds who would be happy to help you succeed without sacrificing your play style.

I was so stubborn-headed about both Strikes and fitting in with the scary people who seem to enjoy them, but then I stumbled upon such a guild and came away with some great ideas for playing the way I already like to play, but better. Oh, and I totally got through all the Strikes with incompetence to spare. 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

1. Watch Mukluk's "Get to the point" video guide (linked earlier)
2. Remind players to get out of the group when they get a number above their head
3. Remind to revive quickly as mistakes will be made
4. Remind players to not chase the sniper around but focus on the mech first.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

17 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Have all your people watch this video.

Go in with what ever class you know the most and just revive the downed.

I'm in my mid-60s and I only ever did one strike before (the first Ice Brood Saga one).  I left this for last  because I was nervous.  I also waited till the weekend to try it, it seems like there's more people doing groups then.

I watched this video to prepare and went to the Kaineng strike portal to LFG.  I told them I was just there for the turtle and had watched a video to prepare.  There was another person in the group who just wanted to get the turtle too.

The commander gave instructions during the fight to let us know what to do/who to target when there were multiple bosses, and reminded folks who got the numbers on their heads to get away from everyone else.

I made it almost to the end, died on the final boss. 

At the end they rezzed me and told us to enjoy our turtles, so it was a one-and-done for me.  If you have trouble it might make sense to split up and try getting into experienced groups.  Be upfront about why you're there and that you're new, and pay attention to the instructions.  You can do this!

[Silent.6137]

3 hours ago, CaffeeCup.5742 said:

I disagree with the posted video of Enforcer-Mindblade-Ritualist.  Playing with randoms always, usually with newbie saddle-aspirers, Ritualist-Mindblade-Enforcer has been the most consistent.  Enforcer moves around a lot and you'll have much faster time downing Ritualist, or even Mindblade.

 

Agree. Have to remember that Mukluk's video was done very soon after release. And it's only one person's take on the strikes. Just because someone is a veteran gamer does not mean that your strategy  cannot be much better than his/hers. Also, his strategy would probably be lots different if he would to re-do the guide.

Most groups nowadays will concentrate on

Spoiler

Ritualist>Mindblade>Enforcer. Move the enforcer away if it is locked onto someone to prevent them buffing each other. Once Ritualist and Mindblade are dead, just stack in the middle for Enforcer. Don't chase it since it'll always come back to the middle. Chasing it will usually make for a slower kill because everyone will be spread out.

For the second part, Mech>Sniper. Totally ignore sniper until mech is dead. You can easily rez/heal through sniper attacks since it'll only target one person at a time. By the time Mech is dead, Sniper will have lost lots of its HP as well from cleaves.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Silent.6137

[CaffeeCup.5742]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

Agree. Have to remember that Mukluk's video was done very soon after release. And it's only one person's take on the strikes. Just because someone is a veteran gamer does not mean that your strategy  cannot be much better than his/hers. Also, his strategy would probably be lots different if he would to re-do the guide.

Most groups nowadays will concentrate on

  Reveal hidden contents

Ritualist>Mindblade>Enforcer. Move the enforcer away if it is locked onto someone to prevent them buffing each other. Once Ritualist and Mindblade are dead, just stack in the middle for Enforcer. Don't chase it since it'll always come back to the middle. Chasing it will usually make for a slower kill because everyone will be spread out.

For the second part, Mech>Sniper. Totally ignore sniper until mech is dead. You can easily rez/heal through sniper attacks since it'll only target one person at a time. By the time Mech is dead, Sniper will have lost lots of its HP as well from cleaves.

 

I've been on pugs that either go Mech first or Sniper first, but that part really depends on team cohesion and commander leadership, either worked fine.  Personally, I agree and like Mech first because it's simpler.  Going Sniper first gets newbies scattered and panicking/self-survival, mech first means nicely stacked group with boons and healing.

Edited April 27, 2022 by CaffeeCup.5742

[Vidit.7108]

I'm going to give some advice that I think is tailored to casual players that I have helped get the turtle item.

There is an instinct in open world to keep distance to avoid damage. Doing this in the turtle strike is likely to put you at risk more than it would help you. As other people have said behind Minister Li is typically the safe spot, but not only that you want to be grouped together with other players as much as possible. The reason being is players that bring support have a mostly limited range to grant it, most boons have a radius in an area that is no more than two people shoulder-to-shoulder from the person giving the boons. There are exceptions, but for your purposes they don't matter. The same is true of a lot of healing in the game.

No matter what your experience or build having 25 stacks of might will make a big difference in your out going damage, not only do most range weapons do less they suffer even more when out of range of might. Other boons will also help you live longer and do more damage. Save your personal healing skill for when you've been isolated on accident or taken a lot of damage that's not getting healed. 

If the group doesn't have support and healing from someone be aware while content can be cleared it's much more difficult for average players that it usually would be. Ideally you shouldn't have to heal yourself or use skills to give yourself boons, instead do damage and stay alive. The fight will go faster if there are supporters in the group. Without it mistakes will be more costly to you and the group, the slower things go the more opportunity there is for mistakes to happen. If your group doesn't have any supporters you should consider joining a different group.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

(Sigh) I wanted to avoid getting very hard core replies offering esoteric advice worded in lots of Raid-speak, from hard core players assuming/hoping we were prospective hard core players. So I kinda played up my group as a bunch of uncool old coots. Which is not true. We aren't in our 20s or 30s(most of us) but we are a very capable group of people. The reason we aren't cut out for raids and have no business in a strike, is that we really don't care for that kind of game play. I really didn't want to start a flame war about hard core/casual ideology, who is worthy of and deserves nice things, and who isn't/doesn't etc... I just wanted to put out a simple, non-inflammatory request for advice. So I get flamed as an ageist bigot, and a person playing the victim. I can only imagine the posts that got removed before I could read them.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. But some people jump to conclusions, and take things too far.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

Thank you to everyone who sent links and wrote out advice. It was generous of you to make the effort to help other players.

Thank you to the people who gave warnings that this is a difficult fight which is to be taken seriously. I appreciate your kind concern.

Thank you to the people who stayed on topic, and to the one who was off topic by accident but gave us good information anyway.

Thank yous are usually given at the end of things, but this thread doesn't need to end here. The tips and advice have been great, please let's keep it going.

[difens.1326]

Reading all of this made me even more angry at game devs. I don't find any instanced content in this game to be fun at all. I will not play content that is not fun to me. ANET can keep their stupid turtles locked behind this BS. I accepted the fact that I'm not going to have this mount. But I DO NOT accept that I am not going to get any XP/spirit shards in OPEN WORLD PvE until I do this STUPID instance. I stopped doing anything in EoD maps, because it's a waste of time.

Edited April 28, 2022 by difens.1326

[titje.2745]

2 weeks ago I joined a group for strike missions and the leader asked for 250 Li. But I didn’t link it because I don’t have 250 Li. I saw ppl link the codes for “proof” (proof that you are used to do more difficult content) but with the many ppl joining it became chaos so the leader didn’t ask me for it. But I thought “why am I not getting kicked” so later someone from my country was talking about dps in party chat. So I whispered him and I asked what my dps was, and I wanted him to whisper it to me and not in group chat. Because I thought it was low. But he said that I did 14k and 17k and was 4th and 3nd place. I got happy with that. Now when I am typing this I remember my first EoD strike where I did 7k dps. That fight took long and needed a few tries before kill. And was not smooth. But with this Li group I got the best group boons. So I did 10k more dps. 
 

later the other Dutch person and me went to the golem training arena and I did a few dps runs. After all in the end I did 27k dps on the dummy. I am happy with that. I also got nice dps with my own created build. And a dummy doesn’t fight back and I can just focus on my rotation. So with a real raid boss it would be lower. But It’s nice to see that I am ready for raids gear wise. 

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, difens.1326 said:

Reading all of this made me even more angry at game devs. I don't find any instanced content in this game to be fun at all. I will not play content that is not fun to me. ANET can keep their stupid turtles locked behind this BS. I accepted the fact that I'm not going to have this mount. But I DO NOT accept that I am not going to get any XP/spirit shards in OPEN WORLD PvE until I do this STUPID instance. I stopped doing anything in EoD maps, because it's a waste of time.

It dont stop you from getting spirit shards you just cant see the bar move anymore.

As an experiment go do two dungeon paths after you maxed out the exp and you will see 1 spirit shard awarded during either the first or second one since they give about 75% of a level if I remember right

[difens.1326]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

It dont stop you from getting spirit shards you just cant see the bar move anymore.

As an experiment go do two dungeon paths after you maxed out the exp and you will see 1 spirit shard awarded during either the first or second one since they give about 75% of a level if I remember right

Dungeon paths are not EoD maps. I'm talking about EoD maps. In other maps (like LS3, LS4, PoF), I can get shards and XP just fine, but not in End of Dragons maps. It will unlock only after activating turtle masteries, which I don't have because of this strike mission. It's BS.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

We're getting more off topic posts and drama. This is absolutely not why I made this thread. I don't want people who post in this thread to attack other posters, or have to defend themselves from attacks.

This thread is not about old age, ageism, ageists, or any from of bigotry.
This thread is not about whether or not this strike is a reasonable thing for ANet to ask of casuals.
This thread is not about spirit shards, masteries, or even the actual siege turtle.

I don't care if you feel like you or I have been insulted - I'm not taking any of that bait. Don't feed the trolls! (they're being reported)

I am reporting all troll posts, derailing, and even merely off topic posts for removal. I don't want this thread cluttered with irrelevant information, please.

This thread is to gather useful information for casuals who want to complete Kaineng Overlook. I want to limit the scope of this thread to just that topic, so it will be a good source of useful information without a lot of non relevant clutter and drama. Can we please just stick to that topic, which is the purpose of this thread?

If you have something you feel is important to say, but is not relevant to the specific topic of this thread - please make your own topic for discussion.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Elden Arnaas.4870
typo

[TexZero.7910]

Things i've not seen mentioned that absolutely help groups.

 

1.) You can CC the sniper during certain phases to return her to the arena and burst her. The arena will have a zipline to go do this. If successful you'll activate a teleporter back down.  At most you only need 2 people to go do this but realistically 1 person usually a guardian with shelter can CC her.

 

2.) During any phase with Li several of his attacks can be aegis'd to make things much easier. This especially important when things get more hectic in phases 2 and 3 of combat with him when he has Dragonslash + Bombs. You can aegis the dragonslash for your allies so they don't have to dodge it. This makes movement related incidents of overlapping bombs less likely.

 

[Mungrul.9358]

I think Muk mentioned it in his video, and it's good advice for instances full-stop, but if you've got access to some decent food like the Birthday Cake, or even better, ascended food, they can help.

It's a simple tip, but easily forgotten.

[Islyn.8019]

Honestly, just 3 things: don’t stack aoe on your feet on others with same, don’t go behind the boss with aoe on your feet, and go where the other numbers go if you have a I, II, or III over your head. 
 

i mean for a hard 4th: when mech boss telegraphs a wide strip in front of him, don’t be there.

 

the rest can be recovered. 

[Alaia Skyhawk.5064]

My tip is to have 1 or 2 revenants in the group with Dwarf Stance equipped (Bonus if they are running Renegade spec) They spend the entire fight auto attacking/spamming F4 off cooldown if they've got Renegade equipped, and reserve all the rest of their energy for the Dwarf Stance elite. Every time Li pulls out one of his one-shot-down mechanics, or the 1-2-3 mechanic, the rev(s) hit their elite. If you have 2 revs/2 subgroups, entire squad gets 50% damage reduction so even if they fail the dodge they don't typically die from it. If you have 1 rev, stick them in a group with the squishest people to protect those 🙂

[Jeromai.8203]

Understanding the mechanics and practicing / simplifying tactics for the phases that trip you up go a long way towards clearing this strike.

 

Some ideas:

1) Encourage interested people to practice dodging Li's Dragon Slash in a private setting - they can actually go in by themselves by creating a raid squad of 1. (Or if a supportive atmosphere works for them, bring them in as a group, solely to practice the timing of the slash. They can also explore what skills they have that give them blocks, evades, invulnerabilities.)

 

The more people are confident of dealing with the slash, the more people can stay out when the bombs appear in conjunction with the slash, and avoid the pile up of death that happens when everyone jumps behind Li while carrying bombs.

 

2) Organize the Numbers mechanic in advance. I've seen some squads put markers on one side of the arena and tell people that people with numbers should stand on that side. Everyone else should be on the other side away from them. Teach people how to detect when they have numbers - their sides of their screen go yellow-ish, as well as the actual numbers over their head.

 

3) Ritualist-Mindblade-Enforcer - teach people that the purple icon over their heads means that one of the enemy mobs is fixated on them. Mindblade and Enforcer have a "stronger together" buff when they are together. Teach 'em where to look to see buffs, pretty sure it's not obvious to most. Thus, separating them is ideal. Thus, at least one person should lead mindblade or enforcer away, while the other two are attacked.

 

4) Mech-Sniper - the equalization mechanic means that a destructive aura will pulse, doing a lot of steady damage and pressuring healing, if the two's health bars differ by more than 20%. The cleanest and least stressful way of dealing with this is to keep their health as equal as possible when you fight them. Teach people to look at the top right of their screen to see the health bars, and advise them to keep it as equal as possible. Players can usually adapt quite well from there.

 

If most of your group are the same, constant set of people, you can take it one phase at a time and make sure everyone knows what to do at each step and progress gradually from there.

 

If each phase is taking too long a time to get through, making the learning progression painful, then it may be advisable to consider builds and getting more buffs (might, quickness, alac), heals, and good damage setups.

 

[Linken.6345]

11 hours ago, difens.1326 said:

Dungeon paths are not EoD maps. I'm talking about EoD maps. In other maps (like LS3, LS4, PoF), I can get shards and XP just fine, but not in End of Dragons maps. It will unlock only after activating turtle masteries, which I don't have because of this strike mission. It's BS.

Incorrect you have a hidden bar that get filled even in EoD maps even when you have not trained turtle fully.

[The Boz.2038]

9 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Incorrect you have a hidden bar that get filled even in EoD maps even when you have not trained turtle fully.

This.
To test: Go to Tyria, see where your XP bar is at. Then go to EoD, where your progress bar is "blocked", do some event, get some XP. Come back to Tyria. Observe how your XP bar has moved.

This is *terribly* communicated in game, but it's there. XP isn't wasted.

[Czokalapik.6091]

https://beta.hardstuck.gg/gw2/guides/end-of-dragons/kaineng-overlook/

All info you need I collected and highlighted here. In reality, just put up 'kaineng for turtle' lfg and try once or twice. It's relatively simple and multiple experienced people often join to help.

I'm helping such groups multiple times in a week for example.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

On 4/26/2022 at 7:41 PM, Elden Arnaas.4870 said:

How would a group of casuals prepare to clear Kaineng Overlook to get the Thruster Control Unit for the Siege Turtle?

 

My first bit of advice is to not overthink this mission. There are a lot of moving parts, a lot of mechanics to remember, and a loooooot of visual noise throughout the encounter so it's very easy to feel overwhelmed by what they put in front of you.

 

9/10 of your wipes as a casual group are likely going to be in the phases where you fight Minister Li rather than the split phases with the 5 champion bosses, so I would suggest focusing the majority of your attention on Li's mechanics since they are the most dangerous by far. The adds are very straightforward, it's mostly just a game of trying to stay out of red circles and properly tanking.

 

It can be difficult to get your bearings the first few times you make an attempt especially if you aren't used to playing end-game PvE content, but there are many good guides out there for this mission and it becomes trivial once you figure out how each phase works.

[Kell.9365]

I've been playing since launch! This game can't be cleared anywhere!