I really would like it if WvW had more things to do when not in zergs or outnumbered

[Knighthonor.4061]

I would love it if WvW had more layers of gameplay to it that wasn't only centered around zerg fights and organized groups.      

        

I want objective based game play that all can contribute to.

 

Solo running supply to build your own sieges isn't fun nor rewarding in its current alliteration.  But it's one of the few solo objectives in WvW that can be done, but is difficult when outnumbered and also not rewarding since you get no contribution for building defenses.

 

I really would like more small scale interactive game play objects for WvW like some of the stuff we see in Drizzlewood Coast. 

That PvE maps was built around concepts of the original WvW concept of being a PvPvE zone. 

I would like to have small objectives like this in WvW for upgrading and feeding NPC troops to make guards and roaming NPC units stronger.

 

New Sieges added to the game that require special on field resources that people have to gather and run back, could be a fun minigame in itself.

 

I also personally would love to see roaming faction NPC bosses like maybe a roaming Hydra for each faction color that circles the SMC attacking enemies.  That could really spice up WvW in general. Could have some kind of collection mission for players to get their hydra summoned.  If you played Old AV in WoW, it had something like this back then. 

 

Also what if the Airship became a actual ship that players can board and fight over and attack the ground from the air? Would add a whole new layer of game play combat to WvW.

 

Siege Turtle mount objective could be interesting as well, to build siege Turtle in WvW.

 

Just some ideas 💡 off the top of my head.

[Zyreva.1078]

What you are asking for is not more things to do outside of a zerg, it's just more PvE (that's gonna screw over small scale more than large scale). No thanks.

There are already a lot of things that can be done solo or in a small grp (techically everything except wiping large zergs). Just tends to require a little bit more skill and knowledge than running with a zerg, especially when outnumbered. Which is fine. If you want to increase the relevance of small scale, you could look at things like reducing supply generation(to make supply management aka camps and dolyaks more important) as well as combat mechanics that favour larger numbers specifically.

[subversiontwo.7501]

I know this is as tired of an old reply as the question is old and tired but:

Just get some friends. There is so much more that you can do with a party against larger groups than you can do by yourself. Almost all of these complaints sits in a space of "me solo, want to defend/PPT effectively, when outnumbered and out-organised". That's not supposed to be effective. There are alternatives in place to out-numbering but those involve out-organising and so on. There is other solo/small content but that doesn't necessarily involve engaging larger groups and their content.

Now, that doesn't mean it is impossible to get some good and fun new things to do. For example, a suggestion like having some content added for the Siege Turtle, as this is the siege mode, is not unreasonable or a bad idea in and of itself. In a normal state of things that would be a logical EoD development for WvW. However, we're 8 years behind PvE. The developer struggles to fix even the most fundamental, disruptive and biggest problems we have had since forever. So it is unreasonable to expect anything with Siege Turtles or anything specifically for solo PvX when the mode as a whole suffers from such big problems as it does.

The Warclaw is a good example. It was "something more to do", something else to ride, some other way to interact with objects etc. How impactful has it been? How worth its development time has it been? How successful is it a mean to sell skins? How good has it been as a content feature for WvW? It has as many downsides as it has upsides and its overall impact after balance has amounted to essentially nothing. We don't need more Warclaws or Dune Buggies that come with severe balance problems and/or adds nothing of value.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I can think of fluff that is been developed for solos to lounge around with. The crumbs that WvW has gotten off the table already has mainly been that and as such solo random fluff has more added content than anything else. Neither of us seem see it as time worth spent as you don't come across as excited about Warclaws, Buggies, Banners, Shield Generators or Tactivators. Are you sure you want more of that stuff?

I'm not against people making suggestions, but for things to be constructive there has to be at least some sort of thought spent on context, balance, how to implement things, how reasonable they are and what they will lead to.

Edited April 30, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[iKeostuKen.2738]

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

What you are asking for is not more things to do outside of a zerg, it's just more PvE (that's gonna screw over small scale more than large scale). No thanks.

There are already a lot of things that can be done solo or in a small grp (techically everything except wiping large zergs). Just tends to require a little bit more skill and knowledge than running with a zerg, especially when outnumbered. Which is fine. If you want to increase the relevance of small scale, you could look at things like reducing supply generation(to make supply management aka camps and dolyaks more important) as well as combat mechanics that favour larger numbers specifically.

As someone who does the most objective base solo roaming the mode has to offer it isnt much. I hit PvE events up on ebg and take 2-3 camps. Not much else outside of that can be done unless your going from map to map after taking 2 camps on each B-land closest to your spawn.

[DeceiverX.8361]

There used to be insane value for roams and havoc, then they utterly killed the balance to make most of the combat not fun, and then they added sentry auras on low-tier towers, and then they added mounts and heavily buffed landspeed with massive superspeed uptime to let the zergs be able to respond to any backdoor capture on the map with anything less than like 15 people.

The smallscale scene mostly died with HoT's horrible balance and lack of build diversity which killed player interest, and was buried with PoF removing the very purpose of deviating from the primary blob.

[Zyreva.1078]

44 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

As someone who does the most objective base solo roaming the mode has to offer it isnt much. I hit PvE events up on ebg and take 2-3 camps. Not much else outside of that can be done unless your going from map to map after taking 2 camps on each B-land closest to your spawn.

You can't only take camps (there's more of those than 2-3 on each map btw), you can also defend them. Hunt dolyaks or those going after yours. Kill players all over the map. Contest keeps. Pass on information about enemy actions. (Help) defend keeps and towers. The only thing that's not really suitable for a solo player (still not impossible) is siegeing towers and keeps all by yourself. A small grp can do that just fine tho, doesn't need to be a large zerg.

Ofc if you are treating WvW as PvE and avoid PvP, then there won't be much to do. But that's because it is supposed to be primarily a PvP game mode. There is plenty of content for solo PvE in this game, just gotta pick the right game mode. Which isn't WvW.

[Rider.6024]

1 hour ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

As someone who does the most objective base solo roaming the mode has to offer it isnt much. I hit PvE events up on ebg and take 2-3 camps. Not much else outside of that can be done unless your going from map to map after taking 2 camps on each B-land closest to your spawn.

start solo sieging towers, theres a ton of cata spots that are almost impossible to hit with mortars / cannons  , you will have to be comfortable with 1v1 though since scouts will try to get you.

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Just get some friends.

There's never a gemstore sale on that.

[LetoII.3782]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

There's never a gemstore sale on that.

Sure there is, just gotta wait until the pubs about to close

[Gorani.7205]

6 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

What you are asking for is not more things to do outside of a zerg, it's just more PvE.

That reply got me thinking, what would be considered PvE and what is WvW (or the tactical / strategic aspect of it). I know what @Knighthonor.4061 is looking for ( I feel that there should be something for a single player or small group to do).

Perhaps we can take a look back at pre-HoT:
=> Upgrades where tied to supply directly spent on them (and gold), so escorting (faster) dolyaks was a means of upgrading (faster). You could speed up workers inside keeps to make them upgrade walls quicker. Doing the Krait/Quaggan events could allow you to send the Quaggan priest to disturb the guards at the gate (taking down the oil & damaging the gate).
The pearl collection and Quaggans feel more like PvE than the upgrading activity with dolyaks and builders and the choice to upgrade stuff at your own order. Perhaps we should find something that goes more on that route.
e.g. create an "Trigger upgrade event" - The Quartermaster of each structure can be asked to start the upgrade to the next tier when the current requirements are met. This is an active thing a player must do. If you do not trigger the event, the upgrade will not happen, incoming supply will just refill the depot, but not count towards a higher tier yet. This could also work at a lesser extent against "night capping", because you need to attend structures and just can't cap them at 2 a.m. to see them upgrade to T3 on their own because of no enemies.
e.g. create a "feeding the troops" event - you have to leave supply at sentries to have them run their Reveal skill; sentries without proper supply will be marked by white swords on the map. Giving them 10 supply would give them 10 minutes of Reveal ability
e.g. let NPCs sell "sabotage supply train" traps, which can be placed on dolyak paths and with poison the supply, so when it arrives it will destroy the amount of supply delivered to the tower/keep in the depot. You could weaken the structure significantly, when this is done unnoticed, so you do not have supply to repair when attacked. You could counter the sabotaged dolly with the med kits at the sentries (which right now have no use, not even the speed boost).

Both ideas would mean much more "activity" of players between structures, on dolly paths and at sentries. That would be chances to meet other players and enemies on the map and potentially cause small scale fights.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

3 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

You can't only take camps (there's more of those than 2-3 on each map btw), you can also defend them. Hunt dolyaks or those going after yours. Kill players all over the map. Contest keeps. Pass on information about enemy actions. (Help) defend keeps and towers. The only thing that's not really suitable for a solo player (still not impossible) is siegeing towers and keeps all by yourself. A small grp can do that just fine tho, doesn't need to be a large zerg.

Ofc if you are treating WvW as PvE and avoid PvP, then there won't be much to do. But that's because it is supposed to be primarily a PvP game mode. There is plenty of content for solo PvE in this game, just gotta pick the right game mode. Which isn't WvW.

I mean when it comes to taking camps you have to be fast and do what you can in a short burst of time before reinforcements show up. And yes while there are more then 3 camps a map, its a waste of time to try to cap them all due to the risk involved when you are solo roaming. All of the rest is done if there is a window of opportunity for it along with passing information that a lot of the time goes ignore due to my server wanting to constantly lose in smc till they RQ.

Its not a PvE or PvP issue. But a problem with balance and scaling the effectiveness of solo to small groups doing tasks vs that of people who blob up and how you are rewarded for it. Mode is to blob focused.

 

3 hours ago, Rider.6024 said:

start solo sieging towers, theres a ton of cata spots that are almost impossible to hit with mortars / cannons  , you will have to be comfortable with 1v1 though since scouts will try to get you.

I usually do this if there is a roaming blob up and capping anything is near impossible or if I have 2/3 camps on the map capped already. Sadly 1v1s would be best case scenario but I end up getting jumped by 3+ people running up on me in warclaw mounts and teleports lol.

[Felicia Sexopants.4713]

I roam in a group of 3 and it’s crazy how much stuff we get away with sometimes, like ninjaing a keep under a zergs nose etc. Just need a few friends who are up for anything and aren’t afraid of dying. I mean sometimes we don’t take anything but forcing a zerg to derail their plans to kill a couple catas and maybe 3 people if we can’t get away is so satisfying. 

[Xenesis.6389]

Would be cool to have some more random events to happen around the maps.

But we've pitched thousands of these ideas and anet has listened to an entire total of 0 in 10 years.

Plus zergs would ruin most of it anyways.

Plus a lot of wvw veterans hate pve stuff in wvw.

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said:

That reply got me thinking, what would be considered PvE and what is WvW (or the tactical / strategic aspect of it). I know what @Knighthonor.4061 is looking for ( I feel that there should be something for a single player or small group to do).

I'm fine with more objectives that encourage small scale encounters, as long those npc or whatever don't interfere with the fights itself. But if it's just something that rewards players for interacting with npc instead of other players, then it's just PvE and of no benefit for WvW.

I definitely preferred pre-HoT WvW and would like to see some stuff back, with other things removed. I do like the idea of upgrades consuming supplies again, mainly because it would make supply management (camps and dolyaks = small scale objectives) more important again. There should also be less automatisms that take away stuff for players to do like superspeed/invuln dolyaks, auto upgrades, watchtowers and so on. Mounts and gliding also hurt, unfortunately we will never get rid of those.

But ultimatively the problem isn't really that there isn't anything to do for solo players, it is more the lack of incentive. Higher risk and effort (which got worse over time) for less rewards. That's not something that gets fixed by just adding stuff that happens to be doable by a single player.

1 hour ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

I mean when it comes to taking camps you have to be fast and do what you can in a short burst of time before reinforcements show up. And yes while there are more then 3 camps a map, its a waste of time to try to cap them all due to the risk involved when you are solo roaming.

The risk is part of the solo experience and shouldn't discourage you to go out there. Remeber, if you die you lose nothing. Respawn, rinse and repeat. Ofc if you are just there for the rewards, then yes, playing solo is not the way to go. But arguably that's true for WvW in general.

 

[iKeostuKen.2738]

3 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

The risk is part of the solo experience and shouldn't discourage you to go out there. Remeber, if you die you lose nothing. Respawn, rinse and repeat. Ofc if you are just there for the rewards, then yes, playing solo is not the way to go. But arguably that's true for WvW in general.

 

True, aside from time and efficiency, all depends on what I notice when I roam after the first death on each side of the map or how active other enemy roamers are. Since I'm always outnumbered, and my pc isn't good enough to catch every detail of a fight lol. 

I play both for rewards and just general WvW experience though since that's how I gauge my worth as a roamer and how well I'm doing. Mostly for rewards though atm since that's how I'm building up all of my builds on each class.

[Svarty.8019]

17 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

I really would like it if WvW had more things to do when not in zergs or outnumbered

Nothing will be done.

[bossmitch.8037]

Go EOTM. That is the nearest you can get in your wishlist.

 

And please don't ruin WVW by bringing PVE into it. PVE has 25 zones just for Central Tyria alone. WVW has 4 (only 3 when your up agaisnt maguuma).

 

 

 

 

[iKeostuKen.2738]

8 hours ago, bossmitch.8037 said:

Go EOTM. That is the nearest you can get in your wishlist.

 

And please don't ruin WVW by bringing PVE into it. PVE has 25 zones just for Central Tyria alone. WVW has 4 (only 3 when your up agaisnt maguuma).

 

 

 

 

Rather they just remove EOTM. And WvW is PvPvE.

[StrangerDanger.3496]

I wish there was some way players could run supplies, as well as some sort of interactive way to contribute in some manner when the map is dominated.  Just something.

 

Also could use maybe WvW world events like in PVE.  I dont understand why a large boss never spawns in the world, other than maybe grub when theres a reward event.  Focus not really the PVE but having that contested fight thats fun in the WvW environment.  More events all around.  Theres never a double XP weekend, or special drop items this week in WvW event, just the same contest, same rules, same content,  for the last 10 years over and over and over.  Its just become such a stale and dry game mode when you look at it like any other form of content that has fun stuff going on all the time.

But yeah would be nice for some interactive ways to play the WvW during downtimes on the map, be it empty due to off peak hours, empty due to being camped, or empty due to your server dominating.  Games fine when theres active competition, but lacks an overall "we remember this game mode" level of care when it comes to events ect.  Plus reward tracks suck and seem designed only for people who might pop into WvW on break from PVE dungeon farming, which doesnt even happen in this game so its a strange system.  Why isnt WvW reward track designed for people who play WvW?  Why isnt warclaw a reward track?  Why isnt there simple reward track options for people who have it all that might want just gold or crafting mats or gems....sure make a gem reward track, IDC if its triple the XP to level and the reward is one gem...people have been doing the same reward tracks for a decade, they got all the set skins lol.

Edited May 2, 2022 by StrangerDanger.3496

[Demon Puppet.6873]

They have had multiple double XP weeks last year and this year. Also the Warclaw is locked behind a Reward Track 

 

edit: WvW has been getting more love and attention this last year(Alliances Betas, long time needed bug fixes, stability fixes and now finally balance patches again) WvW is gonna be on the rise. We get another patch next Tuesday dedicated to WvW balance 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Demon Puppet.6873
Added stuff

[StrangerDanger.3496]

13 minutes ago, Demon Puppet.6873 said:

They have had multiple double XP weeks last year and this year. Also the Warclaw is locked behind a Reward Track 

 

edit: WvW has been getting more love and attention this last year(Alliances Betas, long time needed bug fixes, stability fixes and now finally balance patches again) WvW is gonna be on the rise. We get another patch next Tuesday dedicated to WvW balance 

 

What like two or three?  Its aged content, they could do a hell of a lot more than just an XP boost.  Se what im getting at here? Spice things up a bit maybe?

[kash.9213]

WvW isn't open world, it's a match. A lot of people will say "no more pve" and they'll cry about balance and mounts like that's what makes the game mode stale. Just try to be on around your sever and matchup prime time. 

[Xenesis.6389]

56 minutes ago, Demon Puppet.6873 said:

They have had multiple double XP weeks last year and this year. Also the Warclaw is locked behind a Reward Track 

 

edit: WvW has been getting more love and attention this last year(Alliances Betas, long time needed bug fixes, stability fixes and now finally balance patches again) WvW is gonna be on the rise. We get another patch next Tuesday dedicated to WvW balance 

And yet they've gone cold since january. No events, no betas, a couple blogs mentioning them for the future but no actual timelines. It's like they released the expansion and remembered they don't actually need to pay attention to wvw, no need for anymore hype.

What other bug fixes were done for wvw? Now we have the queue bug that's existed for years and they've been trying to fix for like I dunno 4 months now since last beta? the poor excuse of why we don't have another beta...

What stability fixes? I still lag against BG.

Balance patches? remains to be seen. I didn't agree with warrior bubble nerf, I can only expect their balance will continue the wrong direction buffing the big groups.

 

[enkidu.5937]

Would quaggans be allowed to join squad when they are on voice?

(asking for a friend 😇 )

[Odin.6487]

EOTM was like this and was actually fun, till the rewards were gutted. The problem is anet doesnt like rewards. 

 

theres a ton of things they could do. they could add dynamic events, power ups, buff the keep commanders to help siege, etc etc. it just comes down to anet being lazy lol. 

im even sure lots of people would like a game mode thats larger than 5v5 but smaller than the boonball meta in wvw. a carbon coby wow battleground wouldnt even be a bad idea at this point. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Odin.6487