Roll back Feb 2020 to save pvp.

[Gundam Style.8495]

1288 yesterday to be top 250, is anyone playing? I've seen jokes about there only be 400 active people in pvp, but this makes me think it might not be too far off from that. I've seen gold 3 before, but it's never been that low.

 

I think a vocal minority wanted a slower game, but since Feb 2020, the game was rapidly shrinking. It was always shrinking because no expac since 2017, but it sped up quite a bit, and that's when early season gold top 250 NA became the norm.

 

Now gold 1 is top 250.

 

 

Please undo the Feb 2020 changes, bring back diversity, and stop trying to control the meta. Let it happen organically. I know some will screech and threaten to leave the game, but those type of players never do. The evidence against this slow paced game that favors green and blue is crystal. I think I'll stop posting now. I'll see what happens from the game side. Total silence up in here.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Gundam Style.8495

[Liewec.2896]

yes please, i'd like to make a hammer warrior again!

[Shao.7236]

There was less diversity before the 2020 patch. Mostly because some stuff was power crept so hard that several ways to play the game were completely nullified.

[Myror.7521]

@Shao.7236 less? Bruh there Was Tons more diversity before febr 2020. The meta back then Was roamer,  sidenoder, mid fighter, tanky versions but also Power Version. The meta nowdays is like midfighter, roamer. Midfighter are more or less tanky and roamer are simply glass canon. If a meta that just fills only two roles in its gameplay with mostly only 2 classes in it is more diversity then bruh your blind af xD

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

If reducing powercreep was a reason for people to leave PvP or even GW2 as a whole then they should ask themselves why they even played in the first place.
How about more gamemodes to PvP and adding more maps so people actually would HAVE a reason to play it? How about shuffling amulets once every few weeks to "shake the meta"? How about making "1 class per 1 team" as a whole instead of clowning around? 
There are 36 possible "classes" to use in PvP, yet what we see are the most brainlet picks that are simply miles stronger than everything else. Why is that? Oh right, powercreep once AGAIN. HoT and PoF was the same kitten like EoD is today.
Le'ts not forget that these 36 classes can be built in numerous amount of ways...

Edited May 18, 2022 by TrollingDemigod.3041
bla bla

[wasss.1208]

11 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

less? Bruh there Was Tons more diversity before febr 2020. The meta back then Was roamer,  sidenoder, mid fighter, tanky versions but also Power Version. The meta nowdays is like midfighter, roamer. Midfighter are more or less tanky and roamer are simply glass canon. If a meta that just fills only two roles in its gameplay with mostly only 2 classes in it is more diversity then bruh your blind af xD

 

The difference between meta, and barely viable was much bigger back then. God forbid you wanted to play a fun build, when someone entered with a meta build in the enemy team. The fun ended at that moment, and you became miserable, because your enemy won, just because their autoattack does more damage in 3 hits, than your full combo. While beign tankier, chaining evades, that are attack at the same time. Sometimes sprinkled with CC on the top. Your only bet was either playing something stupid, that can oneshot your enemy, or play Paladin amulet, and hit like wet paper.

Nowdays the difference between meta, and viable builds are much smaller. It's still there, but as a core engi after 2020 feb, I was able to duel fire weaver... heck, even after the grenade nerfs, when everyone were losing their minds about how op weaver as a duelist is.

That said, I don't actively play pvp at the moment, because A-net currently caters to the 3-4 meta builds, shaving and buffing them every patch, while ignoring the remaining 32 specs. So feel free to ignore my opinion.

tl;dr: I avoid pvp, because A-net only cares about a few builds, instead of balancing all 36 specs, and not because of the 2020 feb patch.

[Gundam Style.8495]

2 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

If reducing powercreep was a reason for people to leave PvP or even GW2 as a whole then they should ask themselves why they even played in the first place.
How about more gamemodes to PvP and adding more maps so people actually would HAVE a reason to play it? How about shuffling amulets once every few weeks to "shake the meta"? How about making "1 class per 1 team" as a whole instead of clowning around? 
There are 36 possible "classes" to use in PvP, yet what we see are the most brainlet picks that are simply miles stronger than everything else. Why is that? Oh right, powercreep once AGAIN. HoT and PoF was the same kitten like EoD is today.
Le'ts not forget that these 36 classes can in numerous amounts of way...

It wasn't powercreep, it was removal of builds and essentially classes. There are 3 specs that are dominant and flooding all the games, these same professions have the next best builds, so 3 professions are dominating the games. A few fortune cookies here and there but games are a majority necrosis, guards, and revs.

 

This is not powercreep, it is overnerfing, and what remains is what is left. Compared to pre 2020, everything is weaker. But everything is so trash this is all we have left.

 

43 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

There was less diversity before the 2020 patch. Mostly because some stuff was power crept so hard that several ways to play the game were completely nullified.

 

No, the patch removed several classes from the meta and gave power to the 3 that have absolutely dominated since. Guard, necro, and rev.

 

Thief was "always" meta, bit continual campaigning against them have resulting where spectre is the only viable option, but no one else has a decent entry like the first 3 mentioned. This is objectively, one if the lowest diversity periods in the game. 

 

1288 to be top 250, the patch was a bullet to the head. Feels good to be the best over a few new goodies, right? So impressive. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

They dont need to roll everything back, ttk is better than it was before. Anet just needs to follow up with sustain nerfs and then buff useless weapons, traits, and skills. There is no reason why they cant except that they just dont care.

[Gundam Style.8495]

I feel like the people left in the game mode is so small, that only the ones who wanted this are left. The forums are probably haunted by those who enjoy what we have.

 

1288 top 250 population NA, this is better. The ones who would be killed off quickly and find the game too fast are at and below this line. 

 

If they let the only viable classes be necro, guard, and rev stay until June, top 250 will dip into silver or bronze. If all the pvp dev can do is bump numbers, don't worry about those 3 and bump up war, mes, ranger, ele, and engi in terms of dps. Lower some thief ini costs, like immediately. The game will be better state. War needs some of the dps on its CC, because over half of its attacks and utilities are hard CC, this patch absolutely gutted their diversity.

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

I feel like the people left in the game mode is so small, that only the ones who wanted this are left. The forums are probably haunted by those who enjoy what we have.

 

1288 top 250 population NA, this is better. The ones who would be killed off quickly and find the game too fast are at and below this line. 

 

If they let the only viable classes be necro, guard, and rev stay until June, top 250 will dip into silver or bronze. If all the pvp dev can do is bump numbers, don't worry about those 3 and bump up war, mes, ranger, ele, and engi in terms of dps. Lower some thief ini costs, like immediately. The game will be better state. War needs some of the dps on its CC, because over half of its attacks and utilities are hard CC, this patch absolutely gutted their diversity.

 

 

^ Buff warrior please ^

[Fueki.4753]

While I wouldn't roll back the entire patch, certain things should be undone, specifically the removal of damage on CC abilities.

Instead of taking away the damage, Arenanet should have made CC effects less oppressive by giving players Defiance bars. The disgustingly high amount of CC is the problem, not those abilities dealing damage.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

22 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

It wasn't powercreep, it was removal of builds and essentially classes. There are 3 specs that are dominant and flooding all the games, these same professions have the next best builds, so 3 professions are dominating the games. A few fortune cookies here and there but games are a majority necrosis, guards, and revs.

 

This is not powercreep, it is overnerfing, and what remains is what is left. Compared to pre 2020, everything is weaker. But everything is so trash this is all we have left.

 

 

No, the patch removed several classes from the meta and gave power to the 3 that have absolutely dominated since. Guard, necro, and rev.

 

Thief was "always" meta, bit continual campaigning against them have resulting where spectre is the only viable option, but no one else has a decent entry like the first 3 mentioned. This is objectively, one if the lowest diversity periods in the game. 

 

1288 to be top 250, the patch was a bullet to the head. Feels good to be the best over a few new goodies, right? So impressive. 

It was kitten powercreep, you either run meta powercreeped spec or gtfo, nothing between. After HoT was released core classes ceased to exist, the only thing you could dream of fighting as core class were white mobs in Bloodtide Coast, same was with PoF release, it was pure powercreep and that's the reality here.
A-net is slacking with balancing, sustain should've been shaved after feb2020 but nothing happened.
There's also kitten load of classes and e-speces that NEED a full rework since the elite specialization system is a failure. A lot of stuff from e-speces is still overloaded with effects compared to core, that's not fine in the slightest.
You also miss the most important problem here why people quit PvP, it's because of same circle holding clown fiesta since 2012, there's 0 new modes that would keep players. No CTF, no King of the Hill, no real 1v1 rankeds. We've got some 2v2 and 3v3 and npc rush stronghold. There's literally not enough content for people.

[Gundam Style.8495]

26 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

It was kitten powercreep, you either run meta powercreeped spec or gtfo, nothing between. After HoT was released core classes ceased to exist, the only thing you could dream of fighting as core class were white mobs in Bloodtide Coast, same was with PoF release, it was pure powercreep and that's the reality here.
A-net is slacking with balancing, sustain should've been shaved after feb2020 but nothing happened.
There's also kitten load of classes and e-speces that NEED a full rework since the elite specialization system is a failure. A lot of stuff from e-speces is still overloaded with effects compared to core, that's not fine in the slightest.
You also miss the most important problem here why people quit PvP, it's because of same circle holding clown fiesta since 2012, there's 0 new modes that would keep players. No CTF, no King of the Hill, no real 1v1 rankeds. We've got some 2v2 and 3v3 and npc rush stronghold. There's literally not enough content for people.

You are describing today's game, not back then. The list of builds would be scroll worthy that were in the great and meta tiers, now literally less than 5.

 

Powercreep is a word people use when there class gets dumpstered and left behind. What really is happening is removal of viability. Because it's too annoying(see engi builds, thief), too bunkerish(see engi builds, ele, chrono, centsur, staff thief), too stronk(bye bye warrior, too good of a duelist(poor druid), too unfair(adios mirage), too fast(bye thief, hello spectre), too support(goodnight FB, so long Scourge), too much range(sayanora soulbeast).....soul beast......

 

Hello core and EOD necro, guard, and rev(hot rev)......

 

Powercreep? What? There was always off meta builds, but you can cuss and stomp, but there is so much less diversity right now. Powercreep isn't an issue, it is the perpetual weakening of classes to favor a few selected or new release specs.That's not powecreep, that's displacement and replacement.  The pain we all feel when we practice a class/few classes for thousands of games and an update dumps us into oblivion.

 

Who wants to play a game mode when yours isn't even great tier?  Necro, guards, and revs are dominating the forums too apparently.

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Gundam Style.8495

[Downstate.4697]

The pvp forums is just the same 5 people complaining about every other thing. 

Here is a reality check. Nothing significant will happen in pvp until the june balance. No significant pvp system changes will happen this year or within the next expansion release. There is no evidence that pvp is even on anets radar. You either get enjoyment out of the way pvp is now or you dont.

If you dont enjoy pvp take a look at your life priorities and evaluate if this game is worth your time. The thing is, you have to enjoy your time in the game. If you go in to anything in life with a poor attitude you will get nothing but negativety back out of it. 

[Gundam Style.8495]

1 minute ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

The pvp forums is just the same 5 people complaining about every other thing. 

Here is a reality check. Nothing significant will happen in pvp until the june balance. No significant pvp system changes will happen this year or within the next expansion release. There is no evidence that pvp is even on anets radar. You either get enjoyment out of the way pvp is now or you dont.

If you dont enjoy pvp take a look at your life priorities and evaluate if this game is worth your time. The thing is, you have to enjoy your time in the game. If you go in to anything in life with a poor attitude you will get nothing but negativety back out of it. 

I understand what you are saying. But, another philosophical point to be made is that the baby that cries the loudest gets the milk.

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

There was less diversity before the 2020 patch. Mostly because some stuff was power crept so hard that several ways to play the game were completely nullified.

   You must be kidding. How before 2020 could be less variety than 2 Willbender + 2 Harbinger + 1 core Guardian? I don't remember any moment in time at which PvP stacked only 2 classes.

[Bazsi.2734]

2 hours ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

1288 yesterday to be top 250, is anyone playing? I've seen jokes about there only be 400 active people in pvp, but this makes me think it might not be too far off from that. I've seen gold 3 before, but it's never been that low.

 

I think a vocal minority wanted a slower game, but since Feb 2020, the game was rapidly shrinking. It was always shrinking because no expac since 2017, but it sped up quite a bit, and that's when early season gold top 250 NA became the norm.

 

Now gold 1 is top 250.

 

 

Please undo the Feb 2020 changes, bring back diversity, and stop trying to control the meta. Let it happen organically. I know some will screech and threaten to leave the game, but those type of players never do. The evidence against this slow paced game that favors green and blue is crystal. I think I'll stop posting now. I'll see what happens from the game side. Total silence up in here.

Have you ever gone back to a game you quit just because they rolled a patch back? If a balance shift is all it takes for you to leave, you were already on your way out, and you are not going to check back to see if the game has "returned to its lost way".

Also what is "bring back diversity" doing next to "undo the feb 2020 changes". The oneshot meta gatekept most of the possible combos out of sPvP. After the big nuke, all kinds of builds sprung up because the oneshot roamers were no longer a threat. All the amulet removals that came in 2020 and 2021 were the lazy and cynical balance attempts of the devs to curb these overperforming combos.
If we give back 40% damage to power bursts, we're right back into that hellhole where the only viable builds are oneshotters and those which can ward off said oneshots with a panick-button.

 

And one final problem: a significant part of the game was designed/redesigned after the 2020 february patch. Where do you roll EoD specs back into? Or do you just give them 40% more damage and lower cooldowns? Willbender with 40% more damage, are you sure you want this?

If you want to save PvP we need something new. The old ones aren't coming back, you have to attract new players. Unless a-net starts building something, this joke of a gamemode will remain irrelevant. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Bazsi.2734

[Buran.3796]

14 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Here is a reality check. Nothing significant will happen in pvp until the june balance. No significant pvp system changes will happen this year or within the next expansion release. There is no evidence that pvp is even on anets radar. You either get enjoyment out of the way pvp is now or you dont.

   June's patch is PvE focused. PvP nubers weren't as low as currently, ever.

[Downstate.4697]

Just now, Buran.3796 said:

   June's patch is PvE focused. PvP nubers weren't as low as currently, ever.

12 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

I understand what you are saying. But, another philosophical point to be made is that the baby that cries the loudest gets the milk.

PvE balance patches almost always mean mechanical changes to skills and traits, which translates over to all game modes. Its 10x more exciting than number adjustments

[Mouse.7382]

After many years of pvp, I quit last season, due to the disgustingly, rampant amount of bots.

I logged in the other day--to test Virtuoso out, to confim/deny its grievous reports. Yep, not stepping foot back in their.

[Shao.7236]

15 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   You must be kidding. How before 2020 could be less variety than 2 Willbender + 2 Harbinger + 1 core Guardian? I don't remember any moment in time at which PvP stacked only 2 classes.

You think unkillable sidenode Spellbreaker with 8k unblockable evade spam with 2 Scourge stacking barrier and 2 firebrand of which one is support and the other symbol spam node wide any better?

 

At least I can play Core Revenant and know that if I play it properly I don't die right away because damage isn't whack as it used to be. Weakness meant almost nothing before, damage was way too high. You wouldn't see much of Core anything but Guardian with Ranger outside niche builds like S/D Thief.

 

I would say otherwise, it's still better now compared before.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

If reducing powercreep was a reason for people to leave PvP or even GW2 as a whole then they should ask themselves why they even played in the first place.
How about more gamemodes to PvP and adding more maps so people actually would HAVE a reason to play it? How about shuffling amulets once every few weeks to "shake the meta"? How about making "1 class per 1 team" as a whole instead of clowning around? 
There are 36 possible "classes" to use in PvP, yet what we see are the most brainlet picks that are simply miles stronger than everything else. Why is that? Oh right, powercreep once AGAIN. HoT and PoF was the same kitten like EoD is today.
Le'ts not forget that these 36 classes can be built in numerous amount of ways...

Reducing power creep is good but nerfing stuff into unplayable.... 

It's like going from Maschine guns to pistols that misfire 50% of the time when all we wanted was that everyone has a working gun.

 

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

3 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Reducing power creep is good but nerfing stuff into unplayable.... 

It's like going from Maschine guns to pistols that misfire 50% of the time when all we wanted was that everyone has a working gun.

 

In my next post I wrote that some classes and elite specializations need a full rework, because of how bs is the whole e-spec system and how it actually holds back pretty much everything.
Like look at Mirage, that spec is either busted or "unplayable", though even now there are still some toxic builds for it after so many nerfs which shows how busted the overall design is a failure of said e-spec. Then we have overloaded Firebrand and uncatchable Daredevils. 

Warrior is also a class that needs a reworks here and there for core traits alone, but Berserker and Spellbreaker needs a full rework as a concept. Berserker is just smash F1 more often in specific time frame compared to smash F1 at your will of core and Spellbreaker is core+bustedF2. Bladesworn on the other hand need to actually grow-up and decide what it truly wants to become... 
The changes for some classes are like what you wrote, but there are some classes in which case it Machine Gun didn't change at all, it only changed the reload time of it.

[Arheundel.6451]

50 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Have you ever gone back to a game you quit just because they rolled a patch back? If a balance shift is all it takes for you to leave, you were already on your way out, and you are not going to check back to see if the game has "returned to its lost way".

Also what is "bring back diversity" doing next to "undo the feb 2020 changes". The oneshot meta gatekept most of the possible combos out of sPvP. After the big nuke, all kinds of builds sprung up because the oneshot roamers were no longer a threat. All the amulet removals that came in 2020 and 2021 were the lazy and cynical balance attempts of the devs to curb these overperforming combos.
If we give back 40% damage to power bursts, we're right back into that hellhole where the only viable builds are oneshotters and those which can ward off said oneshots with a panick-button.

 

And one final problem: a significant part of the game was designed/redesigned after the 2020 february patch. Where do you roll EoD specs back into? Or do you just give them 40% more damage and lower cooldowns? Willbender with 40% more damage, are you sure you want this?

If you want to save PvP we need something new. The old ones aren't coming back, you have to attract new players. Unless a-net starts building something, this joke of a gamemode will remain irrelevant. 

The oneshot builds are necessary to keep in check faceroll tank builds, Anet made the game simpler not healthier. It's like an eco system, removing the predators may look the best thing to watch...but then slowly but inevitably, the herbivores will end up consuming the entire resources capability of the entire eco-system, with nothing keeping in check their number...herbivores would just reproduce with no end in sight. 

One shot builds are a necessity...like faceroll tanks builds are...both keep the game in balance, by removing all oneshot builds...you just caused the number of necros to explode.

The Feb 2020 was not a balance patch...was a just an attempt to attract even more paying "whales" to the game and the result is...a never ending see of necros and guardians. If anything WvW would be a much better place if more oneshot builds would be available ......

[DanAlcedo.3281]

17 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

In my next post I wrote that some classes and elite specializations need a full rework, because of how bs is the whole e-spec system and how it actually holds back pretty much everything.
Like look at Mirage, that spec is either busted or "unplayable", though even now there are still some toxic builds for it after so many nerfs which shows how busted the overall design is a failure of said e-spec. Then we have overloaded Firebrand and uncatchable Daredevils. 

Warrior is also a class that needs a reworks here and there for core traits alone, but Berserker and Spellbreaker needs a full rework as a concept. Berserker is just smash F1 more often in specific time frame compared to smash F1 at your will of core and Spellbreaker is core+bustedF2. Bladesworn on the other hand need to actually grow-up and decide what it truly wants to become... 
The changes for some classes are like what you wrote, but there are some classes in which case it Machine Gun didn't change at all, it only changed the reload time of it.

The truth was spoken.