Returning Player Remembering Why They Quit

[SlayerXX.7138]

3 hours ago, azorean.1850 said:

Wth are you on about!!! And why the kitten people think a monthly fee is a good thing is beyond me. Must be an american thing idk

Its is not an absurd idea that a monthly fee model would avoid some Problems the game curently has. With a fee all input money can go to profit or development. Without a fee the game is a cost. That is why bufixes are listed as "worldpolish" in the patch notes. And stuff that doesn't get monetized is under supported. Anet handles it good enough, but there is reason why subfees became a mainstay for a time in MMOs.

Probably why the competitive modes are so under supported. Its is harder to monetize them. Also the fact that some people are willing to creditcard there way to legendarys is a reason they are so grindy in material cost.
It could be way worse, but there are enough obvious flaws in a gem shop model. So no reason to flame the poor americans.

It is however absurd to change the current model of  game 10 years running. Doesn't mean people have to be so hostile:).

Edited May 29, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

Okay okay you are right and the context of your message was perfectly precise unlike mine.  Just GW1 had unlimited templates which was fun and GW2 has 3 + more to buy with cash which is re.kitten and that’s it.

Ok, I know what it was in gw1 and I know what it is in gw2. But this is not gw1, the templates were not in gw2 since the release and the only "it's supposed to be x!" is your wishful thinking, not what they actually "were supposed to be". Overally I get you're frustrated because of the templates, but for some reason you've decided to get it out on my post, where OP's complaint wasn't really in line with what you've said in your vague snarky response.

Quote

Disclaimer: this comment I make now has little linkage to your original post!

On the bright side, this post has more to do with what you've quoted this time, than the previous one had with my previous post -so still good job on this rapid (although minor) improvement with relevancy of your responces!

Edited May 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sigmoid.7082]

1 hour ago, azorean.1850 said:

 And why the kitten people think a monthly fee is a good thing is beyond me. 

Because they think if it had a sub that Anet would somehow be able to fix all the things said individual precieve as a problem with the game. 

 

It's a fairly naïve way of thinking to be quite frank. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

3 hours ago, Sarius.9285 said:

your entire post? If that's the reason you quit you are obviously not happy with it, right?

Wow.  You must have me confused with someone else.  I have never quit the game, nor have I said I did, or wanted to.  Where are you getting this s...stuff???

[Obtena.7952]

53 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

It is just common sense. With a fee all input money can go to profit or development. Without a fee the game is a cost. That is why bufixes are listed as "worldpolish" in the patch notes. And stuff that doesn't get monetized is under supported. Anet handles it good enough, but there is reason why subfees became a mainstay for a time in MMOs.

Probably why the competitive modes are so under supported. Its is harder to monetize them. Also the fact that some people are willing to creditcard there way to legendarys is a reason they are so grindy in material cost.
It could be way worse, but there are enough obvious flaws in a gem shop model. So no reason to flame the poor americans.

So ... why are revenues from the GS regarded any differently from revenues from a sub when it comes to funding development? Providing game content is a cost NO MATTER where these revenues come from. 

Make no mistake, where the revenues come from is irrelevant. If people believe we would get MORE development from a sub-only model ... they are very naïve. The only way for Anet to go at this point is to ADD a sub alongside the GS. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Khisanth.2948]

1 hour ago, azorean.1850 said:

Wth are you on about!!! And why the kitten people think a monthly fee is a good thing is beyond me. Must be an american thing idk.

an unhealthy dose of wishful thinking

"if there is a subscription then they will have enough money and surely that means they will just give all the current gem store items to everyone!"

"a company is definitely not going to try to make as much money as possible"

[Sarius.9285]

15 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Wow.  You must have me confused with someone else.  I have never quit the game, nor have I said I did, or wanted to.  Where are you getting this s...stuff???

aren't you the guy that made this post lol? Otherwise you just have the same profile picture

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I am not the OP.  For pete's sake.  Many posters use the same avatars.  /smh

[Sobx.1758]

...the avatar isn't even the same though 😄

Scroll all the way up, even on this page, there's the name and avatar of the author of this thread.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So it isn't.  Someone has real issues, I'm afraid. 

[Khisanth.2948]

Posts from the thread starter are also clearly marked with a "author" tag on each post they make in the thread.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Another obvious fact.

[Redfeather.6401]

23 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

Doesn't that describe practically every single MMOs? You don't just do every single event just once and move on. You farmed at events, whether for currencies or items.

I guess so. I don't play gw2 or eso or eq2 or lost ark anymore.

I'm back to path of exile, division 2 and destiny 2 now. They aren't mmorpgs but they have enough exotic/unique loot to collect it gives me tons of incentive to log in. Been playing destiny 2 all weekend as I just got The Crimson exotic handgun and been trying to come up with builds for it. It's fun to use.

I like hunting for things that aren't about stat increases but about unique mechanics so I collect em to make fun builds. Those games have tons of stuff to collect even if I never really use it all. Gotta get em all and play with em. Path of exile has so many uniques I'll never collect em all, but I bought a unique collection tab to help.

Probably why I been playing path of exile for longer than gw2. Collecting uniques is more fun than collecting another hat skin or pants skin.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Redfeather.6401

[SlayerXX.7138]

First and foremost im not advocating that gw 2 should change it business model to a fee system. But:

47 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So ... why are revenues from the GS regarded any differently from revenues from a sub when it comes to funding development? Providing game content is a cost NO MATTER where these revenues come from.

Because if the revenue doesn't come from the GAME itself, the person calling the shot is disincentives to put funds into Game development. Instead the money goes into Analysts, Marketing personal and gemstore skins. Mount lootboxes are also a symptom of the free to play model. Bugfixes and other quality changes are seconder when the next money maker <LW season> needs to be pushed out.

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Make no mistake, where the revenues come from is irrelevant.

It certainly is relevant. Anet is a company not passion project of one guy. Where the money comes from will influence investment decision. Saying something different is naïve. 

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

If people believe we would get MORE development from a sub-only model ... they are very naïve. The only way for Anet to go at this point is to ADD a sub alongside the GS. 

I never said that or even implied it. In case of Living World releases it may even speed things up. I say the quality suffers in some aspects as everything that isn't tied to the moneymakers might as well not exist. I for example would like some real World polish, not the bugfix page that masquerades as world polish. Or a Strike mission that isn't recycled Story content with a extra mechanic and bigger numbers. Or more veteran mobs with clear attack animations like "Veteran Mordrem Vinetooth".

 

Don't misunderstand me I am content with GW 2. But saying the subfree model is this flawless wonderland where everything is fantastic is just flat out wrong

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Albi.7250 said:

First and foremost im not advocating that gw 2 should change it business model to a fee system. But:

Because if the revenue doesn't come from the GAME itself, the person calling the shot is disincentives to put funds into Game development.

Well hold on ... the revenues, whether is gemstore OR sub ... IS coming from the game itself; no one who doesn't play the game will pay for a GS item or a sub. I mean, I don't care what business model a game has and what infrastructure is required to implement that model, funds WILL go to development of the game, otherwise people won't play it. 

From where I sit, the source of the revenue has little relation to the relative amount a development will get. No one should assume that revenue source would impact the amount of budget for development. 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Silent.6137]

40 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Because if the revenue doesn't come from the GAME itself, the person calling the shot is disincentives to put funds into Game development. Instead the money goes into Analysts, Marketing personal and gemstore skins. Mount lootboxes are also a symptom of the free to play model. Bugfixes and other quality changes are seconder when the next money maker <LW season> needs to be pushed out.

What?

Without the game, there is no gem store. Without game development, there's no player-retentions or new players. Which means no game resulting in no gem store.

[Reznov.5423]

l played ffxiv too. They have cash shop too and you can't use in game currency to buy stuff in cash shop like gw2. 

You can grind the game and exchange gold to gem to buy stuff in cash shop. What else do you want? 

This is one of the best business model l gave seen so far. To a degree l bought eod deluxe edition not because l want the new content but want anet to be successful. All l ever do is to get on and play 5v5. l don't even know where can l summon the boat. 

The only thing l don't like about this game is art style and graphics quality. lt is too important to me. Otherwise, l would have ditched ffxiv long ago for this game. Don't get me started on how ffxiv forces me to do their storyline to unlock anything. Oh, don't want to do the story? You can pay 25 dollars to skip it. Want to have another character? Grind the story again or pay a ton for the story of each expansion. 

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

5 hours ago, SlateSloan.3654 said:

In SWTOR you cannot buy shop currency with ingame currency that is correct.

but you can sell shop items you acquired on the ingame trading post so you can actually buy shop items with ingame currency there. Why didnt you mention this? Can you sell shop items on the trading post in gw2?

A fair system would be if anet would get rid of „account bound“.

why cant i sell any item i once bought on the ingame trading post?

If i put an shop item back on the ingame trading post the system should check what the gem price is and set the equivalent gold price automatically.

 

 

 You can’t sell cosmetic items from the gem store on the trading post because it unlocks the skin in your wardrobe. If cosmetic items could be repeatedly sold and resold and resold, unlocking the wardrobe for each new buyer then each sale is a loss to ANet. 

[Gunther Clone C.6742]

On 5/28/2022 at 1:02 PM, Malthurius.6870 said:

The worst thing that build templates did is that it took away the split of your character's build loadout between PvE and PvP. You have to go through the trouble of switching your build whenever you switch modes, or use one of your precious slots to get a sliver of the convenience you had before this feature was implemented. What's worse is that it muddies the PvP culture: people are more likely to just run their PvE build than engage in building something for PvP, and what's worse about that is that the player is also likely to run into an annoying disjoint if any of their traits or skills are balanced differently. This system is actively bad for getting new players into PvP. As a middle ground, can we at least have separate templates for PvE, PvP, and WvW

 

About your question. But you already have separate templates?

 

Each character made come with two weapon templates: One for PvE and one for WvW, with PvP being hidden in both.

 

And each character comes with 3 build tabs:

One for each game mode.

 

I'm not saying I disagree, I just want to make sure your question is answered. I also think templates being sold to us is a convenience cash grab for sure, especially since you had unlimited build space (I think locally) on GW1.

 

I actually haven't bought any and if I want more templates, instead of buying one of each, it costs the same gems to buy a character slot, which comes with 2 equipment and 3 build templates instead of just the 1.

[Dante.1508]

10 hours ago, Despot.3048 said:

Just quit now and save people the hassle of seeing you post garbage over and over. 

Hows no sound.

[Erise.5614]

8 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

First and foremost im not advocating that gw 2 should change it business model to a fee system. But:

Because if the revenue doesn't come from the GAME itself, the person calling the shot is disincentives to put funds into Game development. Instead the money goes into Analysts, Marketing personal and gemstore skins. Mount lootboxes are also a symptom of the free to play model. Bugfixes and other quality changes are seconder when the next money maker <LW season> needs to be pushed out.

It certainly is relevant. Anet is a company not passion project of one guy. Where the money comes from will influence investment decision. Saying something different is naïve. 

I never said that or even implied it. In case of Living World releases it may even speed things up.

I for example would like some real World polish, not the bugfix page that masquerades as world polish. Or a Strike mission that isn't recycled Story content with a extra mechanic and bigger numbers. Or more veteran mobs with clear attack animations like "Veteran Mordrem Vinetooth".

 

Don't misunderstand me I am content with GW 2. But saying the subfree model is this flawless wonderland where everything is fantastic is just flat out wrong

I mean. Yes. It's different. But neither is inherently good.

Subscriptions need to constantly justify staying subscribed. That's why WoW makes your gear worthless and takes out old content regularly. So they can cycle around stuff and force you to keep grinding just to stay the same. And it's not like they go back into years old content and fix things all the time either.

8 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

I say the quality suffers in some aspects as everything that isn't tied to the moneymakers might as well not exist.

An extremely wrong perception that killed plenty of MMOs and that ANet handles quite well. If there is no enjoyable game, there is no money makers. That's why ANet actually does go back and fix things. Not every week but they are currently going back to the beginning and cleaning up a lot of issues in extremely old content. 

8 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

But saying the subfree model is this flawless wonderland where everything is fantastic is just flat out wrong

You do understand how extreme a strawman this is, right? No one is saying it's perfect and flawless. 

But suggesting subscriptions are better and have less flaws isn't quite right either. They have issues too. Maybe in slightly different regions of the game and of a slightly different format. Though the gameplay is negatively affected just the same. It's a pick your poison kind of deal.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Smart College Boy.3249]

I also returned a few months ago, and while I agree the gem store is frustrating, it's not the reason I'd quit again.

 

The gameplay loop really isn't for me. I'm constantly being forced to solve or perform all sorts of annoying puzzles to progress through the mastery system rather than exploring the world on my own. And yes, I am being forced to do them or I literally won't progress. I don't mind a few of these puzzles, but the entire game is full of them. And the majority of them I do not find fun.

 

As for the living world story..... It skips around and makes no sense because ANET decided to monetize it. So basically I started with HoT story. Then I went to season 1 story when it became free. And now I'm doing season 4. Seriously, whose stupid idea was it to monetize major story elements in the game? I'm not a story driven person when it comes to games. I'm only doing them in Guild Wars 2 to open up portions of the game that should be available for FREE if I own all the expansions. 

 

I haven't even started WvW yet. I'm sure I'll find many complaints there as well. I did play it years ago, and my major complaint with it back then was the large zergs repetitively running to points of interests to collect reward points. Most of the time there wasn't much PvP going on. I didn't play a ton of PvP back then so roaming was not really an option.  

 

There should be a few important events simultaneously happening in the WvW zone that breaks up the large zergs and gives a greater chance of smaller skirmishes with the enemy. Again, I haven't played it since returning so I'm hoping the zerg problem has been addressed.

[SlayerXX.7138]

11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't care what business model a game has and what infrastructure is required to implement that model, funds WILL go to development of the game, otherwise people won't play it. 

But why hire another developer to polish your game, when you can hire another marketing person instead to squeeze more money out of the current player base? Why make an interesting quest fore the zaitan skins, when you just can put more material sink into it instead that entices people to swipe their credit card? When you can attach a profit number to some content like LW seasons, but can't put a profit number on other content or quality of existing content don't you think that skews what gets worked on. Fixing the stupid glowing Blacklion symbol took what? A month?

 

Don't you think the gems are part of the reason so much stuff is locked behind gold per hour? And if it isn't locked behind gold per hour it is locked behind a long low effort collection. Low effort from a development standpoint.

3 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

You do understand how extreme a strawman this is, right? No one is saying it's perfect and flawless. 

I responded to a person who said monthly fees are inherently bad and another person who stated nothing good could come from it.

3 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

I mean. Yes. It's different. But neither is inherently good.

Subscriptions need to constantly justify staying subscribed. That's why WoW makes your gear worthless and takes out old content regularly. So they can cycle around stuff and force you to keep grinding just to stay the same. And it's not like they go back into years old content and fix things all the time either.

True, Subscription fees have there own problem, Engagement as main metrics comes to mind. But wow gets bugs fixes waay faster then anet, but that could be a company thing and not a pay model thing.
Anyways: Free to play pay for extra is fine. I don't advocate for a sub fee introduction. I'm just surprised how hostile people about the complain. Like if they agree mount skin loot boxes and overpriced layout loadouts are symptom of the gem model Anet gonna charge them the 15 bucks a month right now.
 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Albi.7250

[SlayerXX.7138]

6 minutes ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

As for the living world story..... It skips around and makes no sense because ANET decided to monetize it. So basically I started with HoT story. Then I went to season 1 story when it became free. And now I'm doing season 4. Seriously, whose stupid idea was it to monetize major story elements in the game? I'm not a story driven person when it comes to games. I'm only doing them in Guild Wars 2 to open up portions of the game that should be available for FREE if I own all the expansions. 

Yeah they really shot themselves in the foot with making livingworld main story instead of side storys. Like the new player experience for the story is either real bad or absurdly costly. 

[Gehenna.3625]

16 hours ago, SlateSloan.3654 said:

In SWTOR you cannot buy shop currency with ingame currency that is correct.

but you can sell shop items you acquired on the ingame trading post so you can actually buy shop items with ingame currency there. Why didnt you mention this? Can you sell shop items on the trading post in gw2?

The reason I didn't mention it is because credits have so ridiculously inflated over the past few years that pretty much anything cool is a billion credits (that's the max for the GTN you can list items for). So effectively that puts people who don't like to farm a lot (which is most people) at a big disadvantage as well as new players in general.

GW2 doesn't have this inflation. If indeed SWTOR didn't have such a huge inflation, I would've mentioned it, but as it stands it's completely unequal to GW2's system because of the billions of credits that go around in there. I admit I haven't played SWTOR since end of last year. Has anything been done to significantly reduce the ridiculous inflation since then?

Edit: also the cartel coins to credits conversion (gem to gold in GW2), really depends on the item. So you can't expect the same return in credits for the same item. One item that costs 1000 CCs may get you 100 million credits or less and another item gets you 1 billion credits. It's a complete cowboy market.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Gehenna.3625