Im pretty sick of failing Dragons End meta

[Cuks.8241]

4 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Funny how that is, because i have seen a lot of toxicity, and a lot of fails. And i am EU as well.

Interesting. I mean it did take me like 2 weeks to get to meta. So maybe I missed the initial fiasco before the first nerfs. But after that I maybe had 2 groups where a few people went toxic and blaming. I had more groups that gg-ed at the end even after a fail. 

[Erise.5614]

8 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Interesting. I mean it did take me like 2 weeks to get to meta. So maybe I missed the initial fiasco before the first nerfs. But after that I maybe had 2 groups where a few people went toxic and blaming. I had more groups that gg-ed at the end even after a fail. 

I mean. As always the negative ones stick out more than the positive ones. There's a few regular groups who are generally nice and where you'll have a fairly easy time completing.

But last week I've also had someone who told people to sort themselves and had like 8 different copy paste texts they'd send one every ~2 minutes. Half of which explaining, half talking about how everyone who didn't sort themselves yet was a leech, how all the toxic casuals are killing DE, that if you didn't stack up on all buffs (not linked, no explanation) you're toxic, etc. 

Which was kinda ironic and is gonna remain very present in my memory for quite a while. 

Notably though, these negative extremes do happen much more than elsewhere for me. Not every time. Not even every 4th time. But still several hundred percent more often than anywhere else. 

[Erise.5614]

4 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I did the math behind it:

36 million hp divided by 50 people = 720.000 hp per person.

20 minutes has 1200 seconds. 

720.000 hp divided by 1200 seconds is = 600 hp per second.

So yeah, it's not even 1K damage per second under those circumstances 🙂 

It's 36 per phase plus 16 million per miniboss. So 36 * 5 + 16 * 5 = 255 million HP.

According to the 11 runs I evaluated for phase durations and DPS numbers:

Greens take 2:30 minutes. The two water phases before mini bosses take about 1 minute combined. About 3 minutes are used up by phase transitions. Bites take up 1:45 minutes on average. So, before players got to deal a single damage on Soo Won or had any real chance to shorten the duration in a phase over 7 minutes have passed. 

Not considering tails, knockbacks, moving or anything else. The absolute minimum DPS necessary is ~6k map average. Though the lower your DPS the more bites and tails you get. Raising that number to somewhere around 8k-10k map average in practice. 

The lowest peak DPS I've actually seen during a successful run assuming 55 players attacked was 12.5k. Which lines up reasonably well with those numbers. 

(I'm happy for links to any up to date videos of runs so I can expand my list. Planning to properly compile them into graphs and sharing it when I have at least 100 data points)

Edited June 1, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Daniyyel.3428]

23 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

I honestly don't quite understand what exactly it is you enjoy about it. Not as in, "I can not understand how anyone could enjoy it". But as in, I'm getting mixed messages here and would like to understand that point of view! 

I enjoy grouping up with the community meeting new people who also enjoy the meta.  Sometimes my words in typing don't come out like I think they should.  The small group that are regulars,  we've tried different tactics.  Nothing major really.  Like when to forget tail.  The Com will usually make the call depending on the overall dps.  I'm assuming that's it.  I just follow the calls.  I was a solo player for the longest time.  Rarely talked to anyone in game but a couple of people.  This meta has brought me out of that.  I guess that's what I enjoy about it.  The 20 people I run DE with are all new people to me and have told me similar stories how they were pretty much solo with little to no interaction with others.  Meeting the new people is also fun.  Every once in awhile we can get a toxic person but I've learned to just ignore that and hope they don't join us on the next run.  Sometimes they do and they are less toxic.  When I said I was one of the people mentioned. I meant one mentioned saying that I run with a small group of regulars. Appears some didn't get that's what I meant. 

 

We have 3 people who will lead depending on the day of the week.  They will rotate commanders from time to time.  One thing I noticed.  The commanders are pretty good at predicting what the boss is going to do well before she does it. So they will call that out to make sure people are ready.   Do I think they need to nerf it more?  Absolutely not.

 

This is just my opinion but I feel those still complaining (not everyone)  Like to hop in the DE at the last min, take no time in prepping the map or themselves then wonder what went wrong.   At first I was like several people here.  First two weeks I had mostly fails.   Was very frustrated, hated the meta.  Once I leaned the mechanics and got with others who did the same thing.  It made it much easier to and more fun.   We are not a guild.  Just a small group on discord. 

I guess I like that DE takes more group coordination as well.  Do I care if They nerf it more?  Not at all.  Do I think they need to.  Again, no.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by danielrjones.8759

[Gorem.8104]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Funny how that is, because i have seen a lot of toxicity, and a lot of fails. And i am EU as well.

Must be some incredible rose tinted glasses they have. The very first DE fail I did was the most toxic chat I had ever seen. Like, playing the game over all these years and I had never seen world chat be that hateful before. In the other zone in eod where it was bugged and wouldn't complete back at launch with people thinking it was either because of turtles or someone looting the chests early, the first person to do that got their name called out and attacked in chat for ages. Much swearing to be had. 

All throughout the game I have never seen toxic chat in general... I've seen other meta fails but no one really cared. This whole thing just always felt so unhealthy for the game yet people keep defending it for some reason, like the game players being the most toxic they have ever been is a good thing. EoD needed another year and IBS needed more time to be fleshed out. Its just sad to see such a great game go this route. 

[Erise.5614]

22 minutes ago, danielrjones.8759 said:

I enjoy grouping up with the community meeting new people who also enjoy the meta.  Sometimes my words in typing don't come out like I think they should.  The small group that are regulars,  we've tried different tactics.  Nothing major really.  Like when to forget tail.  The Com will usually make the call depending on the overall dps.  I'm assuming that's it.  I just follow the calls.  I was a solo player for the longest time.  Rarely talked to anyone in game but a couple of people.  This meta has brought me out of that.  I guess that's what I enjoy about it.  The 20 people I run DE with are all new people to me and have told me similar stories how they were pretty much solo with little to no interaction with others.  Meeting the new people is also fun.  Every once in awhile we can get a toxic person but I've learned to just ignore that and hope they don't join us on the next run.  Sometimes they do and they are less toxic.  When I said I was one of the people mentioned. I meant one mentioned saying that I run with a small group of regulars. Appears some didn't get that's what I meant. 

 

We have 3 people who will lead depending on the day of the week.  They will rotate commanders from time to time.  One thing I noticed.  The commanders are pretty good at predicting what the boss is going to do well before she does it. So they will call that out to make sure people are ready.   Do I think they need to nerf it more?  Absolutely not.

 

This is just my opinion but I feel those still complaining (not everyone)  Like to hop in the DE at the last min, take no time in prepping the map or themselves then wonder what went wrong.   At first I was like several people here.  First two weeks I had mostly fails.   Was very frustrated, hated the meta.  Once I leaned the mechanics and got with others who did the same thing.  It made it much easier to and more fun.   We are not a guild.  Just a small group on discord. 

If you are the SooLost fellas I've even taken part in a few runs with you!

I can totally follow your perspective. Heck. That's why I still love AB after quite literally a thousand runs. 

But the thing I wonder about is how exactly the DPS requirement comes into play here?

Now, I do agree that Soo Won can not easily be changed into something else than a DPS check. Which means it either retains all its flaws or becomes an absolute pushover. But I do question the fundamental concept of DPS checks in meta events. My complaint is about Soo Won basically just testing whether enough people on the map have a strong enough build. Improving chances has little to do with yourself and has little to do with the event. It's primarily driven by looking up a build on a third party website / video and hoping enough people on the map did so too. Which is a really weird definition of "challenge" to me. 

Wouldn't it be much more interesting if the thing being challenged was something related to the event itself? Some amount of challenge and possibility for failure is even fine. Because such things can be learned by playing repeatedly and will be overcome more consistently over time.

Why does the skill being tested have to be "selected the right build before joining the map"?

[yoni.7015]

28 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Must be some incredible rose tinted glasses they have. The very first DE fail I did was the most toxic chat I had ever seen. Like, playing the game over all these years and I had never seen world chat be that hateful before. In the other zone in eod where it was bugged and wouldn't complete back at launch with people thinking it was either because of turtles or someone looting the chests early, the first person to do that got their name called out and attacked in chat for ages. Much swearing to be had. 

All throughout the game I have never seen toxic chat in general... I've seen other meta fails but no one really cared. This whole thing just always felt so unhealthy for the game yet people keep defending it for some reason, like the game players being the most toxic they have ever been is a good thing. EoD needed another year and IBS needed more time to be fleshed out. Its just sad to see such a great game go this route. 

I have never really seen toxic chat in DE, even shortly after launch when the meta still failed.  Maybe it also depends on your definition of toxicity.
But you seem to have your narrative that everything about EoD is so terrible and difficult, so of course you have to write how awful toxic the map chat was 🤷‍♂️

Edited June 1, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Gibson.4036]

I haven’t been to Dragon’s End for quite a while. Decided it was better to work on leggie trinkets, and buying A.S.S from the weekly vendor will get me to the Aurene leggie eventuslly.

I just recently went back to grab the hero points for a character. As I ran around I could read a group of players in map chat trying to do the meta.

It failed. There was no toxicity in chat during or after. Just a sort of resignation.

”Too bad”

”Ah well”

Made me a little sad for GW2.

 

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

You are equating people who likes more complex metas, as opposed to vanilla guarantee win meta, as all raiders?

People who likes harder and/or more complex events are not exclusive to one type of groups. The gamut of the player base range from extremely hardcore to extremely casual. Of the hardcore, there are bound to be those who dislike raids, just as there are the casuals who love raids. I'm by no means a casual player and I don't do raids for various reasons. Just because someone takes the opposite view as you and likes the meta, does not make them a raider.

Yup, it's his "catch-all" phrase. There is something in the game that he dislikes? It's raiders! You understand the mechanics and systems of the game you play? You're a raider and you belong in instances! ...and so on 😄

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

All throughout the game I have never seen toxic chat in general... I've seen other meta fails but no one really cared.

There were always some people fuming when the event/meta failed. It doesn't mean that it always happens or it's some kind of "norm" to be expected, it just means it happens here and there, practically irrelevant of the content.

55 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Why does the skill being tested have to be "selected the right build before joining the map"?

"right build"? You're saying as if people need to pick a specific build, but they don't. But if someone isn't able to make a coherent build with reasonable damage or utility, then apparently they either somehow still don't understand the game's mechanics or just don't care, because they never had to try and understand it since they were easly "carryable". The question is: why would you think that after 10 years of playing an mmorpg you think picking your traits and stats shouldn't mean anything? If you can just -literally- randomly click on some traits, take whatever mixed gear and then ram through the content anyways then the whole build system is pointless since your decisions in that regard wouldn't even matter. Overally it's all down to meaningful choices. If you need more dmg, pick stuff that provides more dmg. It's not that complicated and pretty sure nobody expects anyone to come up with meta builds.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

When you have someone that tells in the forums and in the reddit "casuals get gud " and then do a backflip 3 months and say "we never say it , it's the company fault and we offered instead guides " the shouldn't have opened his mouth from the start

...what are you even talking about right now?

32 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I haven’t been to Dragon’s End for quite a while. Decided it was better to work on leggie trinkets, and buying A.S.S from the weekly vendor will get me to the Aurene leggie eventuslly.

I just recently went back to grab the hero points for a character. As I ran around I could read a group of players in map chat trying to do the meta.

It failed. There was no toxicity in chat during or after. Just a sort of resignation.

”Too bad”

”Ah well”

Made me a little sad for GW2.

 Ah yes. So now if people aren't toxic when the meta failed, it's also bad because "it's just resignation". Like.. what else did you expect there?

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

...what are you even talking about right now?

Post in forums + reddit . from the start of the soo won release till now

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

Post in forums + reddit . from the start of the soo won release till now

But what EXACTLY are you talking about and how is this responding to my post you've quoted 2 posts before, I'm confused about what you're trying to say here.

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But what EXACTLY are you talking about and how is this responding to my post you've quoted 2 posts before, I'm confused about what you're trying to say here.

Raiders were saying to the forums and the reddit , to get gud and now they hide.

I propose the company from now on , to be careful of turncoats

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

Raiders were saying to the forums and the reddit , to get gud and now they hide.

I propose the company from now on , to be careful of turncoats

Who are those "raiders" and how do you recognize/classify them? 

Is this by what I wrote in my initial post you've quoted?

Quote

Yup, it's his "catch-all" phrase. There is something in the game that he dislikes? It's raiders! You understand the mechanics and systems of the game you play? You're a raider and you belong in instances! ...and so on 😄

 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:57 AM, Evil Octopi.8253 said:

I just want to say I am pretty sick of failing it.

They should implement an entry test at the bottom of the Harvest Temple. If the applicant for the meta can't do at least 20k DPS and cannot break the test golem's, sorry, test mech's defiance bar, they get kicked into another map instance. 😅

No, seriously... I mean it. 🙂

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Who are those "raiders" and how do you recognize/classify them? 

Is this by what I wrote in my initial post you've quoted?

 

Classification , by telling other people :

"Here is a guide to SC , look at these builds"

"git gud and stop crying casual"

"i hope the casual increase their dps , so they don't have a reason to cry about that they cannot join Raids"

 

You a tiny population

You should "teach your children better"

 

As for the rest of us , if we want to find you , we know were you are

Edited June 1, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Luci.7018 said:

Classification , by telling other people :

"Here is a guide to SC , look at these builds"

"git gud and stop crying casual"

"i hope the casual increase their dps , so they don't have a reason to cry about that they cannot join Raids"

 

You a tiny population

You should "teach your children better"

 

As for the rest of us , if we want to find you , we know were you are

Players providing guides and help to other players doesn't make them raiders. It only makes them willing to help others, at least by sharing the resources they have/found/know. If you're searching for negativity in attempts to help others then... yeah, thanks for confirming what I initially said.

And to make it clear, "git gut" is not helpful, but providing guides and tips for how to succeed definitely is. The fact that you're trying to claim things like that are toxic and those players should stop opening their mouth is just backwards.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Erise.5614]

39 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"right build"? You're saying as if people need to pick a specific build, but they don't. But if someone isn't able to make a coherent build with reasonable damage or utility, then apparently they either somehow still don't understand the game's mechanics or just don't care, because they never had to try and understand it since they were easly "carryable". The question is: why would you think that after 10 years of playing an mmorpg you think picking your traits and stats shouldn't mean anything? If you can just -literally- randomly click on some traits, take whatever mixed gear and then ram through the content anyways then the whole build system is pointless since your decisions in that regard wouldn't even matter. Overally it's all down to meaningful choices. If you need more dmg, pick stuff that provides more dmg. It's not that complicated and pretty sure nobody expects anyone to come up with meta builds, since they're just not needed.

The majority of players do not understand the choices and can therefore not make meaningful choices. You can see that in basically every OW event. And even a huge amount of high performance players do not understand build creation well. They just copy builds from some website. 

So clearly, it can not be expected. The game is doing something wrong and it doesn't work out that way.

Requiring more difficulty is the theory of people who enjoy hardcore content and want to convert more players into hardcore players.

Others, such as myself, believe it's fine for an area in the game where you can learn and improve during encounters and by just playing the game. Like, actual gameplay. Not prep work, third party resources, reading hundreds of tooltips while trying to understand what synergies ANet intended for maximum output. 
Believe that enjoying the game is enough. Whatever way people might do that. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

The majority of players do not understand the choices

Cool, then maybe it's time to stop skipping pop-ups that tell the players what does what. And what point exactly are you trying to make by writing that? That just because some people are not willing or unable to read those traits to use them in a semi-coherent manner, it means that meaningful choice should be taken away entirely for others? Because if that's not it, then please, explain what it is.

10 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

And even a huge amount of high performance players do not understand build creation well. They just copy builds from some website. 

And yes, people copy builds because they want "optimal" and that "optimal" is made and shared by others, so why not use the available resources if someone wants to? As I've already said above -meta builds aren't needed there. The "understand game's systems to make a coherent build" has nothing to do with "scraping meta builds" and is NOT the line that needs to be reached -so why exactly do you keep gravitating towards those as if anyone wants singular players to find those meta builds by themselves? Nobody does. It is not needed.

...as a side note, what interesting did you find by adding me in the game? Are we friends now? 🥰

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Erise.5614]

11 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Cool, then maybe it's time to stop skipping pop-ups that tell the players what does what.

GW2 is an entertainment product. Not a job.

If the majority doesn't do something, the fault is with the game. Not with the players.

And it's up to ANet to decide whether they need better teaching methods or if it's best to just let people enjoy themselves without that knowledge. 

11 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

...as a side note, what interesting did you find by adding me in the game? Are we friends now? 🥰

I add everyone where I have extremely different opinions because I'm interested to see where these opinions formed. What kind of content they play. There's always much more nuance than can be conveyed in a few comments. This is one way to understand some of it. 

Whenever I play with some friends and invite them to my party / squad I get a quick glance on what people in my friend list are doing and get a more complete picture.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Sobx.1758]

13 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

GW2 is an entertainment product. Not a job.

Nobody said it's a job, even moreso when you're attempting to give that response to "reading a pop-up on leveling up". You're not responding to anything I wrote with this.

Quote

If the majority doesn't do something, the fault is with the game. Not with the players.

You have 0 data about it. Not only you just dodged what I wrote, but also just went for another strawman with a made up ""statistic"". Please re-read the post above and answer to the questions asked to clarify.

Quote

I add everyone where I have extremely different opinions because I'm interested to see where these opinions formed. What kind of content they play. There's always much more nuance than can be conveyed in a few comments. This is one way to understand some of it. 

Whenever I play with some friends and invite them to my party / squad I get a quick glance on what they are doing and get a more complete picture.

Surprised you decided to add me now, since we had differening opinions (also about this thread's issue) for quite some time now. But I see, it's just good old stalking then 😄

If you're looking for the content I play, all you had to do was ask: it's basically all of it, sometimes in waves, depending on what I want to do or get (and because I avoid getting stuck in some specific "daily routine"). Also wvw>pvp. Now that you have that information, what exactly changed about, well, literally anything we wrote on this forum?

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Erise.5614]

23 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nobody said it's a job. You're not responding to anything I wrote with this.

23 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You have 0 data about it. Not only you once again just dodged what I wrote, but also just went for another strawman with a made up ""statistic"". Please re-read the post above and answer to the questions asked to clarify.

You did edit in 90% of your comment after I replied. So there wasn't much context to reply to. 

You can observe the majority of players during OW events deal <5k DPS. Which strongly suggests it's very far from an optimized build. Unless you assume active malice, this also suggests they do not engage with buildcrafting at a level where they make meaningful choices. 

To bring up a second example. The primary reason for failure in Dragon's End is lack of DPS. The barrier to pass is not hard for a somewhat optimized build. And yet, few players clear it. 

You said this is easy and ought to be expected. But clearly it is too much to expect.

So what's the way forward?

Complain about players being bad?

Better tutorials by ANet?

Or could it even be fine as is? Do those players actually want to move towards high performance?

Does that enrich their experience in a positive way? 

23 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Surprised you decided to add me now, since we had differening opinions (also about this thread's issue) for quite some time now.

I've not added anyone in weeks. Nothing happened recently. Most people I added about two months back during the height of the DE controversy. 

23 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Now that you have that information, what exactly changed about, well, literally anything we talked on this forum?

Nothing. Which is why I keep it to myself and do not bring it up. I do it for no other reason than to try and understand the perspective of others a little better. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Sobx.1758]

Quote

You can observe the majority of players during OW events deal <5k DPS. Which strongly suggests it's very far from an optimized build. Unless you assume active malice, this also suggests they do not engage with buildcrafting at a level where they make meaningful choices. 

When players play the content that doesn't require them to make a coherent build, all it means is that they didn't need to make a coherent/dps build. Meanwhile you're using this to claim that people don't understand the build system of the game or the choices it provides, which is somehow supposed to be a fuel to claim that meaningful choices = bad (or non-existant, because you've decided some people don't use/understand it?).

Quote

To bring up a second example. The primary reason for failure in Dragon's End is lack of DPS. The barrier to pass is not hard for a somewhat optimized build. And yet, few players clear it. 

Again, all it does is shows that "in a lot of cases players didn't need to make coherent builds", not that "they don't understand it" or that the choices being meaningful is even remotely bad. Yes, the barrier isn't that high to pass, but a few posts above you see that some of the players take it as an offence when they're getting provided with resources or tips on how to improve. Since they can now simply reduce everything into a "toxic git gut!" claim, which is not what it is at all. Isn't that the bigger issue here instead of claiming that the system is bad because... well... it requires reading? (which specifically goes back to my initial response to you on this page, to which you've responded... "it's not a job" for some reason)

Quote

You said this is easy and ought to be expected. But clearly it is too much to expect.

When something is not needed and then is needed to complete the content, it can be kind of a shock for the players despite still qualifying as being relatively easy (still talking about coherent builds, right?). Example: at introduction of HoT, I went into VB and I got annihilated by a group of cute raptors. It doesn't mean that dealing with raptors is somehow hard, getting chomped up so fast was just unexpected. It was something I didn't expect, it was kind of a shock when compared to comming from core content and yet... they are not hard. I just didn't need to deal with them before.

If I can skip level up tips, click on random traits wear whatever without as much as reading what stats I'm using and then smash through content with utilizing next to nothing but randomly pressing the keys on my keyboard, it doesn't mean that the build system is hard to use or understand, it means that people that didn't even bother could easly smash through and now actually are "shocked" since their choices will be more meaningful, so should be more coherent. To be clear, this is an example, not a claim that "whoever fails just clicks randomly". Just like you, I have not stats available to me about it.

Quote

So what's the way forward?

People understanding that going further into content of a 10 year old game can reasonably require them to understand its systems and mechanics in order to complete all of its content? Maybe. But it's a small part of it, it's not as if someone doesn't have place in EoD because one meta is harder.

Definitely wouldn't say that the choices should be somehow less meaningful just because some people refuse/d to read through them.

Quote

Complain about players being bad?

As far as I see, the complaints spammed on this forum go the other way, don't they?

Quote

Better tutorials by ANet?

Maybe. Partially happened in eod too, but forcing everyone to go through the basics explained on levels 0-80 (which is when the basics of the build system like skills/traits/attributes are explained) only because some people apparently decided to skip them doesn't seem reasonable at all.

Quote

Or could it even be fine as is? Do those players actually want to move towards high performance?

Who knows, but if they don't want to then they should understand it's just their choice and then stop trying to make the game stay in the past just because they're -apparently, according to this question- willingfully refusing to learn.

Quote

I've not added anyone in weeks. Nothing happened recently. Most people I added about two months back during the height of the DE controversy. 

Woah -and in these 2 months, what interesting or helpful have you noticed?

Quote

Nothing. Which is why I keep it to myself and do not bring it up. I do it for no other reason than to try and understand the perspective of others a little better. 

But if that information does nothing for you then how can you say you do it to help you understand anything?

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashantara.8731]

5 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

GW2 is an entertainment product. Not a job.

If the majority doesn't do something, the fault is with the game. Not with the players.

Soooo... if "the majority" doesn't play Raids, Strikes or Fractals, or stays away from WvW and/or PvP, the game is "at fault"... for what exactly? Providing different content for different players? Yes, wow, how dare they! And how dare others have fun with said content!?

The DE meta comes as close to raid-level content as open world/story PvE content will ever get. It's not meant for just anyone, you have to have some skill. No one ever took raiders by their hand to guide them through Raids.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Ashantara.8731